hey there folks! I need some help/suggestions...I have a Savage 10fcp-k .308 that I was looking to top off with a Bushnell Elite 4-16x40 multi-x reticle. I've decided to give my longer-range AR the Bushnell and have been looking at getting another scope for the Savage. To cut to the chase- my friend has a Vortex Viper 6.5-20x44 BDC reticle he will sell me for 300.00. Well, then I see it is not FFP, and start to second guess...then, I see I can purchase a Falcon Menace for not much more (5.5-25x50 or 4-14x44-I've read this one is the better of the two), which is FFP. I only have approximately 500.00 to spend. I like the Viper, but I am concerned about 2nd focal plane not being "as good as" a FFP. Then again, I don't shit from shinola either, so maybe ignorance is bliss? I just keep reading that the FFP isbetter to have, but I also read Viper's are awesome for the cash...What would you folks do? I really do appreciate the info! Thanks.
Rifle Scopes ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
- Thread starter FALex
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Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
Get what you can afford, shoot it until you've got enough experience that you know what you want and what you need.
FFP is the hot option right now, but it's not a must have option. It is faster and more convenient than SFP, but not manditory. With FFP the reticle size adjusts with the magnification so you can range estimate or holdover at any magnification level. With SFP you need to be on a specified magnification level to accurately range estimate or holdover without having to do math. They can both do the same thing, just that FFP is faster and more convenient.
Vipers are great bang for the buck, but so are a bunch of other scopes. Vortex is proving to have the best customer service of any company in just about any industry. I've never owned a Falcon Menace, but if you search and ask someone will help.
Depending on what you plan to do with your scope, BDC might not be the reticle that you want. The most important thing to do is get a good scope and get out and shoot. Many of the people on this site, who are going to give you opinions, have bought and sold many scopes until they've found the one that suits their needs. That comes with experience.
Get what you can afford, shoot it until you've got enough experience that you know what you want and what you need.
FFP is the hot option right now, but it's not a must have option. It is faster and more convenient than SFP, but not manditory. With FFP the reticle size adjusts with the magnification so you can range estimate or holdover at any magnification level. With SFP you need to be on a specified magnification level to accurately range estimate or holdover without having to do math. They can both do the same thing, just that FFP is faster and more convenient.
Vipers are great bang for the buck, but so are a bunch of other scopes. Vortex is proving to have the best customer service of any company in just about any industry. I've never owned a Falcon Menace, but if you search and ask someone will help.
Depending on what you plan to do with your scope, BDC might not be the reticle that you want. The most important thing to do is get a good scope and get out and shoot. Many of the people on this site, who are going to give you opinions, have bought and sold many scopes until they've found the one that suits their needs. That comes with experience.
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
"Many of the people on this site, who are going to give you opinions, have bought and sold many scopes until they've found the one that suits their needs. That comes with experience."
Funny, I have done this with some of my firearms! Learn as you go...
"Many of the people on this site, who are going to give you opinions, have bought and sold many scopes until they've found the one that suits their needs. That comes with experience."
Funny, I have done this with some of my firearms! Learn as you go...
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
Here are two must read articles before you go and buy a new scope:
http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/index.php/articles/anatomy_of_a_tactical_bolt_action_rifle__the_rif/
http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/index.php/articles/practical_optics_selection/
Here are two must read articles before you go and buy a new scope:
http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/index.php/articles/anatomy_of_a_tactical_bolt_action_rifle__the_rif/
http://www.shootingvoodoo.com/index.php/articles/practical_optics_selection/
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
The FFP can be nice but it is not without its downside also. At low magnification it can be hard to see the reticle. I've never owned or even fielded a FFP scope but I have shot them. On my first personally owned long gun, I went with a Bushnell Elite 6500 5.5-30x50. The reticle is set for 10x. This allows me to dial it up to 20x and now have .5 mil extrapolation. In theory I could take it to 30x and still be able to do some very simple 1/3mil calculations but the scope is not really that spectacular at 30x so I don't go there much. I pretty much keep my scope at 10x or 20x so no need to pay up for FFP.
Bob
The FFP can be nice but it is not without its downside also. At low magnification it can be hard to see the reticle. I've never owned or even fielded a FFP scope but I have shot them. On my first personally owned long gun, I went with a Bushnell Elite 6500 5.5-30x50. The reticle is set for 10x. This allows me to dial it up to 20x and now have .5 mil extrapolation. In theory I could take it to 30x and still be able to do some very simple 1/3mil calculations but the scope is not really that spectacular at 30x so I don't go there much. I pretty much keep my scope at 10x or 20x so no need to pay up for FFP.
Bob
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
What kind of shooting will you be doing with the rifle? If you are shooting at a KD target where you dial for every shot, then FFP won't really help you. If you do a lot of holding for elevation and wind at other than the set magnification point, then it will help you out.
What kind of shooting will you be doing with the rifle? If you are shooting at a KD target where you dial for every shot, then FFP won't really help you. If you do a lot of holding for elevation and wind at other than the set magnification point, then it will help you out.
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
you guys rock. Thanks! I guess I'm going to be looking toward a SFP for now. I can always save up for a really nice scope in the future, huh? It sounds like for hunting and paper punching, a SFP is just fine...
you guys rock. Thanks! I guess I'm going to be looking toward a SFP for now. I can always save up for a really nice scope in the future, huh? It sounds like for hunting and paper punching, a SFP is just fine...
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
I won't even address the pros and cons of a FFP vs. a SFP, for purposes of this thread.
What you should consider is that having a FFP reticle is usually a pretty expensive option. It is a $150 option on the Vortex PST and is a $500 or $600 option on the Nightforce scopes.
When considering scopes, you do get what you pay for, most of the time. When you're getting a scope with all of the bells and whistles you ARE sacrificing something someplace. It could be in the overall build of the scope, the quality of the glass, the tracking of the turrets, etc. There's no free lunch.
If your budget limits you to $500, you really need to be focusing on reliability, repeatability (of the turret adjustments) and glass quality. Besides, there are times when a SFP is better than a FFP, especially when shooting for accuracy at paper. I like SFP scopes because when shooting at paper and the like, it isn't unusual to have to dial down the magnification a bit to reduce the effects of mirage in the scope. When I have to do this, I certainly don't want my reticle shrinking and making it harder to see.
I won't even address the pros and cons of a FFP vs. a SFP, for purposes of this thread.
What you should consider is that having a FFP reticle is usually a pretty expensive option. It is a $150 option on the Vortex PST and is a $500 or $600 option on the Nightforce scopes.
When considering scopes, you do get what you pay for, most of the time. When you're getting a scope with all of the bells and whistles you ARE sacrificing something someplace. It could be in the overall build of the scope, the quality of the glass, the tracking of the turrets, etc. There's no free lunch.
If your budget limits you to $500, you really need to be focusing on reliability, repeatability (of the turret adjustments) and glass quality. Besides, there are times when a SFP is better than a FFP, especially when shooting for accuracy at paper. I like SFP scopes because when shooting at paper and the like, it isn't unusual to have to dial down the magnification a bit to reduce the effects of mirage in the scope. When I have to do this, I certainly don't want my reticle shrinking and making it harder to see.
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
Here is another thread to read on FFP scopes:
http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1522
Here is another thread to read on FFP scopes:
http://www.primalrights.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1522
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
Just to add one more thing to what I said above, especially if you're going to go with a SFP scope; take a look at the Bushnell 4200 Elite Tactical 6-24x50. This scope has recently been discontinued but is still available at the top end of your price range. It has great glass, nice turrets, it's rugged and the reticle configuration allows some nice flexibility. The mil-dot reticle is set to be properly scaled at 12x. That allows you to go to 24x and the dots become .5 mil or pull out to 6x and the dots equal 2 mils. This scope is probably one of the best deals out there for the money right now.
Bob
Just to add one more thing to what I said above, especially if you're going to go with a SFP scope; take a look at the Bushnell 4200 Elite Tactical 6-24x50. This scope has recently been discontinued but is still available at the top end of your price range. It has great glass, nice turrets, it's rugged and the reticle configuration allows some nice flexibility. The mil-dot reticle is set to be properly scaled at 12x. That allows you to go to 24x and the dots become .5 mil or pull out to 6x and the dots equal 2 mils. This scope is probably one of the best deals out there for the money right now.
Bob
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
FFP is only better to some folks. It is not better to me. I do like to know about available options, but FFP is something I can pass on.
FFP is only better to some folks. It is not better to me. I do like to know about available options, but FFP is something I can pass on.
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Old man now</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FFP is only better to some folks. It is not better to me. I do like to know about available options, but FFP is something I can pass on. </div></div>
+1, I can live without FFP, it can be pretty handy, but I am not a fan of the reticle changing size, it makes it difficult to use when on the lower powers and almost useless when hunting. JMO
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Old man now</div><div class="ubbcode-body">FFP is only better to some folks. It is not better to me. I do like to know about available options, but FFP is something I can pass on. </div></div>
+1, I can live without FFP, it can be pretty handy, but I am not a fan of the reticle changing size, it makes it difficult to use when on the lower powers and almost useless when hunting. JMO
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
I have a Savage 10FCP with a Falcon and enjoy the setup. But The one thing I've found is the magnification knob is large and the retaining screw will bump up against the ring base if the rings are too low. Also, I'm in bad need of a cheek riser because of how my face fits against the buttstock. So I have to raise the scope a bit, and raise my cheek weld. Just some things to think about it. But my Falcon has been a good compliment to my Savage.
The FFP vs. the SFP discussion is really just preference. If you can get the FFP for what you can afford, than great! Falcon is a good option there, but if you end up with a SFP, you're not at any disadvantage really.
I have a Savage 10FCP with a Falcon and enjoy the setup. But The one thing I've found is the magnification knob is large and the retaining screw will bump up against the ring base if the rings are too low. Also, I'm in bad need of a cheek riser because of how my face fits against the buttstock. So I have to raise the scope a bit, and raise my cheek weld. Just some things to think about it. But my Falcon has been a good compliment to my Savage.
The FFP vs. the SFP discussion is really just preference. If you can get the FFP for what you can afford, than great! Falcon is a good option there, but if you end up with a SFP, you're not at any disadvantage really.
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
Well unless you are one of those super tactical people shooting things on the move and NEED to shoot in lower mag go FFP. I have a SB that even though it is FFP i never use it cause I rarely take it off the highest mag. IMHO
Well unless you are one of those super tactical people shooting things on the move and NEED to shoot in lower mag go FFP. I have a SB that even though it is FFP i never use it cause I rarely take it off the highest mag. IMHO
Re: ROOKIE NEEDS HELP/SUGGESTIONS
well, this is great, everyone. Thank you all for the input. I am going to go with the Viper at this point. I just had to face myself and determine I am very very far from being able to shoot long distances accurately (I'm just assuming here because I've never tried!), but I'm sure it ain't gonna' happen overnight! I figure, by the time I get better at my shooting body mechanics and accuracy, I may be able to upgrade my optics. My good hunting buddy said for $300.00 that Viper "is a tremendous steal...GIT IT!" Again, thanks a lot folks.
well, this is great, everyone. Thank you all for the input. I am going to go with the Viper at this point. I just had to face myself and determine I am very very far from being able to shoot long distances accurately (I'm just assuming here because I've never tried!), but I'm sure it ain't gonna' happen overnight! I figure, by the time I get better at my shooting body mechanics and accuracy, I may be able to upgrade my optics. My good hunting buddy said for $300.00 that Viper "is a tremendous steal...GIT IT!" Again, thanks a lot folks.
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