Rookie reloader lil help please

[ShebasDad]

Just got back from a range trip with my 2nd ever reloads. Nothing blew up so I've got that going for me!

Rem. 700 AAC-SD .308
20" 1:10 factory tube
Wyatt DBM

Loads
Hornady 178gr ELDM
43.2 to 44gr Varget In .2gr steps
Brass once fired FGMM
CCI 200
2.270 CBTO Max mag length 2.875 OA

All charges were thrown and trickled up. I checked zero often and was in no rush to load them up. About an hour and a half for 20 rounds. I didn't have any pressure signs. I think paranoid and anal apply lol.

Now for the questions.

Dose vertical stringing show a seating depth issue or is it horizontal? Cause I've got one that's pure vertical and another that's all horizontal but only .2gr apart. I like the 43.6 load hope it's just a seating depth thing.

I'm going to order a cronograph next paycheck and get better brass as well.

Don't know if this pic will load but we'll see. Any help is always welcomed Thanks in advance
Bill

 

[culater]

Retest the 43.6 again and as far as vertical stringing it could be you or seating depth. Yes get a chronograph it will help find you node.
As far as a suggestion for a reloading up grade is the E scale 120 fx with powder dumper and trickier. I know it seem like a lot of money but your time is worth a lot more. You should be able to reload 100 rds in 30-40 MINS vs 1hr 30 min for 20 rds.An welcome to OCD club
Brass up grade to lapua brass.

 

[lash]

Your 43.6 load looks good to me. That is horizontal stringing and is not likely the load causing it, but is you.

 

[ShebasDad]

Thanks for the input.

The 11/2 hrs to load them up I chock up to measuring and re checking everything over and over and over.

Think I'll load up another 20 @ 43.6 and 10 more @ 44. I slapped the crap out of the flyer on the 44gr load.

Not that it truly matters but all were shot prone with a bipod and rear bag. I'll pack all my bags and set up on a bench next trip out.
Thanks again
Bill

 

[solano2482]

If you are buying new brass, you may want to work up again towards the latter end of your work up. Lapua brass is the best, but may change your results. To me every variable counts. Are you getting any pressure signs? I ask because hornady's reloading manual shows the max for varget shooting a 178 grain projectile at 42.4 grains. Every rifle is different when it comes to the max load. Something else to consider. Get yourself a chronograph.

 

[Precision Underground]

43.6 is right between two vertical strings. I'm not sure I would feel confident in that charge at all, assuming you are confident you didn't cause the vertical string yourself. The idea of finding a good load is not about finding a charge that groups well it's about finding a range of charges that shoot well. Ideally you would want 43.2-43.8 to all be good groups printing roughly the same elevation and then you pick the charge in the middle. If 43.6 shoots well today at 90 degrees but the 43.4 shot like crap, as soon as it cools off a little the 43.6 load will start shooting the same as the 43.4 load did. The idea is that the load will still shoot will through temp change, slight over/under charge, and other variables. What is the listed max charge for the powder you are testing?

 

[ShebasDad]

Hodgdons lists 45gr as a compressed load for both 175 and 180gr bullets. Hornady is around 43 gr for Varget but I don't have my book in front of me.

I didn't see any pressure signs and had no heavy bolt lift. All the primers looked good to me. The 5 rounds with the primer sealer are some Black Hills 175TMKs I checked zero on my scope with for comparison. Bottom to top 43.2 to 44gr and the Black Hills.

 

[Precision Underground]

Hodgdons lists 45gr as a compressed load for both 175 and 180gr bullets. Hornady is around 43 gr for Varget but I don't have my book in front of me.

I didn't see any pressure signs and had no heavy bolt lift. All the primers looked good to me. The 5 rounds with the primer sealer are some Black Hills 175TMKs I checked zero on my scope with for comparison. Bottom to top 43.2 to 44gr and the Black Hills.
View attachment 6924914

If it were me, emphasis on if it were me, I would creep up and see if I could find a node around 44.4. Also check your rest and set up because both of your groups on the right had vertical and both on the left had horizontal. If you are shooting from the same rest without moving it to line up with what you are shooting at you could be doing something to cause that as you move from side to side. You have to make sure to get "you" as much out of the equation as possible.

 

[solano2482]

Hodgdons lists 45gr as a compressed load for both 175 and 180gr bullets. Hornady is around 43 gr for Varget but I don't have my book in front of me.

I didn't see any pressure signs and had no heavy bolt lift. All the primers looked good to me. The 5 rounds with the primer sealer are some Black Hills 175TMKs I checked zero on my scope with for comparison. Bottom to top 43.2 to 44gr and the Black Hills.
View attachment 6924914

not sure if its the lighting, but those primers look cratered which would be a sign of over pressurization.

 

[b6graham]

not sure if its the lighting, but those primers look cratered which would be a sign of over pressurization.

i think i see swipe in 5 cases from top to bottom

not that book loads mean much if you're over. lots of variables. they're safe for a reason. I'd wager a guess that 95% of the loads in the depot are over max, somewhere between 43.0 and 44.5 with a 175 class

 

[solano2482]

Everyone's reloading goals are different. Mine is 40.3 grains with the same projectile. I get less than 0.5 moa at 100 yards going 2400 fps. I am happy with that for now.

 

[ShebasDad]

not sure if its the lighting, but those primers look cratered which would be a sign of over pressurization.

Like I said this is my second batch of reloads , part of the reason I put the pics up.

All the primers on every box of factory SMKs and the Black Hills and the Hornady match for that matter look like my reloads. All were shot out of a stock Rem 700 aac-sd. I haven't had any work done to the receiver or bolt.

Is it possible the primers look like that due to the pin/spring combo in the stock bolt?

I'll throw up another pic with a BHs 175 tmk Hornady 155eldm and a reload case that I think is one showing ejector swipe from a 44gr Varget load between the 308 and FC stamp. After looking again I'm only finding this on the heaviest load I shot.

I'm ordering a box or two of Lapua brass this week. So I'll be starting over next week.... with a better idea what I'm looking at.

Thanks again for the help.

 

[TheGerman]

Just got back from a range trip with my 2nd ever reloads. Nothing blew up so I've got that going for me!

Rem. 700 AAC-SD .308
20" 1:10 factory tube
Wyatt DBM

Loads
Hornady 178gr ELDM
43.2 to 44gr Varget In .2gr steps
Brass once fired FGMM
CCI 200
2.270 CBTO Max mag length 2.875 OA

All charges were thrown and trickled up. I checked zero often and was in no rush to load them up. About an hour and a half for 20 rounds. I didn't have any pressure signs. I think paranoid and anal apply lol.


I'm going to order a cronograph next paycheck and get better brass as well.

Don't know if this pic will load but we'll see. Any help is always welcomed Thanks in advance
Bill

Oh really?

But redo the vertical stringing groups, I'd be curious in those.

As far as starting to reload, I remember my first time out. I was basically so scared I closed my eyes and held my head down when shooting at first, waiting for something to explode because there is no way I figured out how to make ammo.

Looking back, yeah, those rounds were total garbage, but they were safe and they always worked. But compared to years later, its unreal what you can learn.

 

[Strykervet]

Just so you are aware, new Lapua .308 brass is VERY tight around the necks. You may wanna get an expander die from Sinclair or Brownells. The neck expander dies are pretty cheap and you can also just run 'em through the sizing die with it screwed down enough NOT to size the brass, but enough to run the expander ball through it. Only need to do this to new brass. The once fired Lapua brass is what you want. Fireformed to your rifle. Neck size that and then you'll have the best brass you can get. Out of the box it's nothing spectacular (well, they look spectacular).

They can also be used after Dillon auto-trimmers to size brass; the trimmer trims it and the trimmer die sizes it, but you still need to expand the neck if you do it this way.

To get your COL, those Hornady headspace gauges and rings fit your calipers (I got a cheaper set of Frankford calipers for this so I wouldn't have to remove them to use my others). With the right ring installed, it'll measure the COL at the ogive. Now they'll all be measured from the same place since the tips vary. For me, I load 175's at 2.35ish. That'll be just over 2.8" and still fit my mags.

You can find the geometry of various bullets online so you know where to measure at the ogive and how much to add to it to get the appropriate COL.

 

[Precision Underground]

Like I said this is my second batch of reloads , part of the reason I put the pics up.

All the primers on every box of factory SMKs and the Black Hills and the Hornady match for that matter look like my reloads. All were shot out of a stock Rem 700 aac-sd. I haven't had any work done to the receiver or bolt.

Is it possible the primers look like that due to the pin/spring combo in the stock bolt?

I'll throw up another pic with a BHs 175 tmk Hornady 155eldm and a reload case that I think is one showing ejector swipe from a 44gr Varget load between the 308 and FC stamp. After looking again I'm only finding this on the heaviest load I shot.

I'm ordering a box or two of Lapua brass this week. So I'll be starting over next week.... with a better idea what I'm looking at.

Thanks again for the help.
View attachment 6925769View attachment 6925770

Cratering is not necessarily a sign of overpressure. Some rifles crater primers either way.

 

[ShebasDad]

Just so you are aware, new Lapua .308 brass is VERY tight around the necks. You may wanna get an expander die from Sinclair or Brownells. The neck expander dies are pretty cheap and you can also just run 'em through the sizing die with it screwed down enough NOT to size the brass, but enough to run the expander ball through it. Only need to do this to new brass. The once fired Lapua brass is what you want. Fireformed to your rifle. Neck size that and then you'll have the best brass you can get. Out of the box it's nothing spectacular (well, they look spectacular).

They can also be used after Dillon auto-trimmers to size brass; the trimmer trims it and the trimmer die sizes it, but you still need to expand the neck if you do it this way.

To get your COL, those Hornady headspace gauges and rings fit your calipers (I got a cheaper set of Frankford calipers for this so I wouldn't have to remove them to use my others). With the right ring installed, it'll measure the COL at the ogive. Now they'll all be measured from the same place since the tips vary. For me, I load 175's at 2.35ish. That'll be just over 2.8" and still fit my mags.

You can find the geometry of various bullets online so you know where to measure at the ogive and how much to add to it to get the appropriate COL.

Good info thanks. As for the Hornady gauges I've got them already I'm looking into the mandrel for my Redding die set. Also based on the case prep you detailed I changed plans and ordered 100 Lapua 175s from Creedmoor sports so I'll end up with fire formed brass to start with next week.

FWIW ... they have free ground shipping today!

Thanks again for the help
Bill