Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

M

mram10

Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 8, 2010
449
2
50
Idaho
#1
I just had a gunsmith tell me to avoid fluted barrels because they are not as accurate as round ones. Any truth to that?

He cited heating inconsistencies in the barrel. I don't believe it since I have seen so many rifles on here with fluted barrels, but I wanted to get your input.
 
#3
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

I smell BS. Could be wrong but I have never heard a claim like that.

Im sure there are some heating differences but I doubt that if it were to effect accuracy, you wouldnt be able to tell. I cant see harmonics being effected negativly if done correctly.

Im sure someone who know much more than myself on this subject will chime in.
 
#5
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

This is the opinion of Shilen: http://www.shilen.com/faq.html#question8

"What about "fluting" a barrel?
Fluting is a service we neither offer nor recommend. If you have a Shilen barrel fluted, the warranty is void. Fluting a barrel can induce unrecoverable stresses that will encourage warping when heated and can also swell the bore dimensions, causing loose spots in the bore. A solid (un-fluted) barrel is more rigid than a fluted barrel of equal diameter. A fluted barrel is more rigid than a solid barrel of equal weight. All rifle barrels flex when fired. Accuracy requires that they simply flex the same and return the same each time they are fired, hence the requirement for a pillar bedded action and free floating barrel. The unrecoverable stresses that fluting can induce will cause the barrel to flex differently or not return from the flexing without cooling down a major amount. This is usually longer than a shooter has to wait for the next shot. The claim of the flutes helping to wick heat away faster is true, but the benefit of the flutes is not recognizable in this regard until the barrel is already too hot."
 
#7
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

Fluting is like putting chrome wheels on your car, looks good but it goes no faster.

The cost benefit of fluting is just not there. Get it if you like the look otherwise don't bother.

Yes if fluting is done incorrectly it can screw with your barrel. This will affect button, hammer forged, and cut rifle barrels differently.
 
#9
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

i only have barrels fluted so i can reduce weight withdeep fluting typically you can shave close to a pound on a bigger barrel, the only pitfall i have noticed is you tend to see mirage on your barrel sooner because of the more rapic cooling (i think). no scientific study on this we just noticed at a match during a rapid fire stage only the guys with flutes were seeing mirage during the stage where unfluted were not.

i will say nothing dresses up a barrel like spiral, or intermitten fluting even if for nothing other than looks. I say why not if your already spending $3000+ why the hell not.
 
#11
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

The facts.

Two barrels the same length. Both the same weight. The fluted barrel being larger in diameter will be more rigid thus will have the potenial to be more accurate. I've fluted barrels here in the shop for 16 years. From #2 contour and up. Done properly to stress free barrels match barrels there are no problems.

Advantages to a fluted barrel.
1. Slight over all weight reduction of the rifle.
2. Changes the balance of the rifle. Almost always to the good.
3. Increases cooling but a hot barrel is just that. HOT
4. Looks cool.

Disadvantages

1. costs $$$
 
#13
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The facts.

Two barrels the same length. Both the same weight. The fluted barrel being larger in diameter will be more rigid thus will have the potenial to be more accurate. I've fluted barrels here in the shop for 16 years. From #2 contour and up. Done properly to stress free barrels match barrels there are no problems.

Advantages to a fluted barrel.
1. Slight over all weight reduction of the rifle.
2. Changes the balance of the rifle. Almost always to the good.
3. Increases cooling but a hot barrel is just that. HOT
4. Looks cool.

Disadvantages

1. costs $$$ </div></div>Well I'm glad Tooley likes fluted barrels, because he's making mine!
 
#16
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

I have had a lot of my barrels fluted and never had a problem. They all shot great and alot where from different barrel makers. I think that if their was a real problem with accuracy from fluting barrels that your top gunsmiths would stay clear of it on their builds. If you like it and have the money to do it i say flute the sucker.
 
#17
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

I have one Pac-nor fluted barrel in a .257 and it shoots great. I talked to Jim Borden about this since he is building my next rifle and he says that it doesn't matter. He said that if you need it for weight saving or balance then do it but if not then just leave it un-fluted. He says that he does not see much difference in accuracy. He says that he has not seen a barrel that shot better after fluting but that normally they are still just as accurate. If you want it then do it.
Lee
 
#18
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DesertHK</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Didn't know that the outside of the barrel can influence the internal ballistic of the cartridge. LOL </div></div>

I wouldn't say that it effects the internal ballistics of the cartridge, but this isn't to say that it doesn't have effects. Do you rest your barrel on objects when shooting? If you haven't, try resting it on something and taking a shot. Then push the side of the barrel on something and take a shot. Then do it with the other side of the barrel and take a shot. Then don't rest the barrel on anything, and see what happens. You probably already know what happens, but if you don't, a direction to investigate might be the "old timers" that liked to pressure bed barrels. Either way, to say that the outside of the barrel doesn't effect ballistics (which you said internal ballistics of a cartridge), would be a bit of an over generalization. You have to take into account barrel harmonics as well.

With that said, I like fluted barrels and my fluted Krieger will shoot tiny groups. As others have said, how the barrel is rifled, when it's fluted, and lots of other variables can change how fluting does/doesn't effect a barrel. I would say that if you don't stress relieve a barrel after fluting, and it's done improperly so that it imparts stress on the barrel; it could have a negative effect. It's part of the reason why some manufactures flute their blanks before they rifle the barrel, and then later stress relieve the barrels after all of their machining is done. Either way, if your gunsmith doesn't chamber and thread the barrel properly, even an unfluted barrel can have stress added to it. I think done right, doesn't have a negative effect on accuracy, just on the pocketbook.
 
#19
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

There are some theoretical negative effects to fluting a barrel, after it has been rifled and contoured. Whether those theoretical negatives become real negatives depends on to a small degree on the quality of the original barrel and to a much greater degree whether the fluting process was done correctly.

If you want it and don't mind spending the extra coin, then by all means scratch that itch.
 
#21
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

There is truth to fluted barrels causing a mirage once it gets hot versus a round barrel. Thus being the reason none of the Bench Rest guys I shoot with have round barrels. Other than that, I really can't comment anything on the stresses of fluting anymore than what has already been said. I say if you want to flute it, just flute it. I doubt you would ever have a difference in performance as long as you have it done right.
 
#22
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

I have a factory Savage with a fluted barrel I have shot 1/2"+3/4" groups at 300yd.I can't do it all the time but the rifle will shoot.
 
#24
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

I would take Dave's word to the bank.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The facts.

Two barrels the same length. Both the same weight. The fluted barrel being larger in diameter will be more rigid thus will have the potenial to be more accurate. I've fluted barrels here in the shop for 16 years. From #2 contour and up. Done properly to stress free barrels match barrels there are no problems.

Advantages to a fluted barrel.
1. Slight over all weight reduction of the rifle.
2. Changes the balance of the rifle. Almost always to the good.
3. Increases cooling but a hot barrel is just that. HOT
4. Looks cool.

Disadvantages

1. costs $$$ </div></div>
 
#25
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

I'll address one more concern. Stress induced by fluting.

To lay out how stress is introduced into a barrel I'll use barrel manufacturing techniques as an example. There are two common production methods for making match grade barrels. Cut and buttoned rifling. I primarily use 4 different barrel makers. Two cut and two buttoned. In button rifling the button is pulled through the barrel displacing metal to form the lands. If you place your hand on the outside of the blank you can feel the barrel expand as the button passes by. This process induces stress to the whole barrel blank. Cut rifling is just that. To form the grooves metal is removed by a cutter. This not exactly the same as fluting but fluting cuts away material also. It does not cold form it like button rifled barrels. Both buttoned rifle makers stress relieve their blanks after drilling,reaming and rifling, prior to contouring to maintain bore dimensions. Cut rifle barrel makers do not stress relieve after cutting the grooves as they have not cold formed anything, they cut away material which does not induce stress in the barrel blank. This applies to fluting also. Cutting away material will induce some surface stress where the metal is removed but it does not affect the entire blank. While yes there is a very small amount of surface stress it is symetrical around the blank just like the internal stress from cutting the rifling. Give me a stress free blank to flute and I'll give you a stress free blank back. I've done hundreds with no problems. Now the before and after barrels will have different harmonic patterns but that's another discussion which very few of us, including myself, know anything about and are qualified to discuss. They're different and we work with the barrel on an individual basis.
 
#28
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Same diameter, same length. The nonfluted barrel is more rigid. Same length, same weight. The fluted barrel is more rigid. </div></div>

+1 to Everything Dave has said. Spot on.
 
#29
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

Wonder what a fluted 20 in would look like vs a nonfluted 20 in of the same weight? Might even have to reverse taper?
grin.gif
 
#30
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

ranger,

Are you sure this was the link you meant to post? Although very informative and an interesting read, it didn't mention fluting as far as I could tell.
 
#31
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

This is a flute I use when I want to remove more weight. It has a flat botton. Looks good also. Full view of a 20" w/brake.

Muzzle diameter is .975" w/6 flutes .250" wide X .100" deep by 13" long and weighs 4.44 lbs. deflection 0.001020

Nonfluted barrel muzzle diameter is .875" and weighs 4.46 lbs. deflection 0.001099

P1010396.jpg


P1010398.jpg
 
#33
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: force_multiplier</div><div class="ubbcode-body">translation... your 'smith can't flute a barrel, so he's trying to talk you out of it... find another 'smith
</div></div>

+1 I am no smith but it doesn't sound right to me
 
#36
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Dave Tooley</div><div class="ubbcode-body">No I don't. Looks good though. It's all about weight reduction and being cool. </div></div>I was just wondering about barrel flex. it would seem from a visual perspective that twists would not be a good thing for repeating the same flex. But i see it from a number of known smiths so i guess my visual guess is wrong.
 
#37
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Turk</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Spiraling fluting may reduce more weight but you may throw the "stiffening" effect out the window? </div></div>that's what i was thinking, couldn't type out the words though.
 
#38
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gstaylorg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">ranger,

Are you sure this was the link you meant to post? Although very informative and an interesting read, it didn't mention fluting as far as I could tell.</div></div>


glad i'm not the only one, went over it 2 or 3 times trying to find the bit about fluting
smile.gif
 
#39
Re: Round barrel more accurate than Fluted?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Snipedogg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is truth to fluted barrels causing a mirage once it gets hot versus a round barrel. Thus being the reason none of the Bench Rest guys I shoot with have round barrels. Other than that, I really can't comment anything on the stresses of fluting anymore than what has already been said. I say if you want to flute it, just flute it. I doubt you would ever have a difference in performance as long as you have it done right. </div></div>

That's a HUGE jump in logic and an assumption. The BR guys use Mirage shields. Fluting makes no measurable difference in Mirage. ONE of the reasons they don't do it "stresses". Another would be barrel life. It's a tool for them. It has a short life span. It may or may not be kept if it's not up to the standard. Why spend extra cash for no gain?


OP, if you want it get it done on a barrel by a maker that supports it. If done poorly it can cause issues. Like one of my factory Savage barrels which is so bad you can feel the bore open up and close up at the end of the fluting. Still accurate though.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

adamthegrayt
Barrel wear or a manufacturing problem?
Replies
4
Views
292
BenE
BenE
R
Conflicting reccomendations about break in and cleaning routine
Replies
31
Views
912
randello88
R
P
Upgrading from Tikka CTR - 3 options want opinions
Replies
76
Views
2K
patriot07
P
T
Suppressor causing thin barrel to droop for first round - which replacement barrel?
Replies
11
Views
567
theTastyCat
T
V
Firearms WTS: LWRC REPR 7.62 x 51, NightForce NXS 3.5-15x50
Replies
2
Views
287
VanDoren1819
V
Top Bottom
Back
Home
Forums
Merch
Alerts