Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

[fastline]

I am looking to build a 200yd max rifle. I know from experience that you usually want the highest grain bullet you can get. I think I can build slugs up over 400gr for the 44 but I am more concerned about accuracy, stability, and ballistics taking this bullet down to subsonic. Also wondering if the action will work ok with the heavy slug and reduced charge or if I will need to mod it.

Am I on the right track with my 44 or should I jump ship now? Can I get a high twist bull barrel for this gun? Do I need one? Do they respond well to suppression?

 

[Redmanss]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

Seriously dude, it sounds like one of these:

 

[widnerkj]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

sounds like you are shopping for a ruger deerfield carbine. I've always wanted one. Just because. I never see them at gunshows anymore though. Good luck, I say get it, and do a range report. Down with the nay sayers!

 

[fastline]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

I already own the rifle. Inherited from my FIL. Was actually going to sell it until I started thinking about what I wanted in a quiet rifle build and it is real close.

Are there high twist barrels out there for these? I am not sure what the twist is on this one but I could only guess not enough for subsonic tack driving.

 

[rifleman0321]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

Subsonic rounds will require a different twist for the same bullet weight compared to a supersonic round, IIRC. You will likely have to have a barrel custom made. IMO, if you want a large-bore suppressed weapon simply for the fun of it/plinking, the Marlin Camp rifle in .45ACP would be a better candidate. Just thread the barrel, add a can, and shoot ball ammo or whatever floats your boat. For an accurate subsonic rifle, it would be easier to suppress an AR platform in one of the subsonic .30's(Whisper, etc.). Or if you must have big bore, suppress an AR in .458 socom or the Beowulf. In the long run any of these options would likely be cheaper/easier/more satisfying. JMHO.

 

[bohem]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastline</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am looking to build a 200yd max rifle. I know from experience that you usually want the highest grain bullet you can get. I think I can build slugs up over 400gr for the 44 but I am more concerned about accuracy, stability, and ballistics taking this bullet down to subsonic. Also wondering if the action will work ok with the heavy slug and reduced charge or if I will need to mod it.

Am I on the right track with my 44 or should I jump ship now? Can I get a high twist bull barrel for this gun? Do I need one? Do they respond well to suppression? </div></div>

1) It is a good platform as long as you don't run lead bullets in it. The gas system is not setup to do lead.

2) The subsonic 44mag with heavy bullets (such as 400gr bullets) is a hammer-time load on animals, I've done it extensively

3) You CAN get a fast twist from Douglass and also from any custom cut-rifled barrel maker

4) I would suggest you get the Ruger bolt action instead in 44mag, as it will not have the cast lead problems, fitting a new barrel is easier on the 'smith, and there's no action cycling issue.

I've done a ton of work with subsonic, super heavy 44's in a custom wildcat based off of a 30-06 case. Thus far the 11 deer that have fallen to it have not gone more than 50 feet. Out of them, 9 have dropped in their tracks,one of the does still had grasses in her mouth unchewed (headshot).

I strongly suggest that if you want it to feed, you go the bolt gun route.

 

[dlc356]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

Make sure you post some pics of the project. I'd love to see a video if you get it to work. The only suppressed .44 mag rifle I've seen was a Marlin 1894.

 

[fastline]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jolly roger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Subsonic rounds will require a different twist for the same bullet weight compared to a supersonic round, IIRC. You will likely have to have a barrel custom made. IMO, if you want a large-bore suppressed weapon simply for the fun of it/plinking, the Marlin Camp rifle in .45ACP would be a better candidate. Just thread the barrel, add a can, and shoot ball ammo or whatever floats your boat. For an accurate subsonic rifle, it would be easier to suppress an AR platform in one of the subsonic .30's(Whisper, etc.). Or if you must have big bore, suppress an AR in .458 socom or the Beowulf. In the long run any of these options would likely be cheaper/easier/more satisfying. JMHO. </div></div>

damn you for making my mouth water... The .458 socom is a round I was originally looking at. Maybe we can expand on a few things here so I can make some decisions.

1. lead bullets in 44 carbine - why? It ran with them before. Also keep in mind that I am able to cnc turn my bullets and will likely go that route before casting because it is easier for me, faster, and yields a more precise bullet.

2. .458. I read that the bullets are really expensive so I would probably roll my own with turning them as well. For the price difference, I can justify it. My understanding is this round is MUCH longer and better designed for accurate subsonic flight, is that accurate? Night and day from any .44 mag bullet design we could come up with and mfgr?

3. You mention "cheaper". I always like cheaper. I am not married to this gun BUT it was free. However, trading it for an AR is an option since I would have to buy another stock for this, it is tube feed, etc. I have never looked into build of a .458 AR system. what do I need? Could I get reliable cycling with a subsonic .458?

There is always a decision to be made regarding bolt or semi auto but I usually find that if you can make semi auto work, any extra noise is usually minimal if done right and you have to consider the noise of cycling the bolt after.

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

Fail. Crap platform.

Try again.

 

[Oodin]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

Could look here: SRT Arms I've heard good things about Doug and I realize those are bolt actions, but I believe they do special projects too.

 

[fastline]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fail. Crap platform.

Try again. </div></div>

why is that a crap platform? The AR? The round? semi auto?

Believe me, I am thinking about the issues at hand with semi auto and my 200M accuracy requirement.

 

[evilmonkey]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

build a 300 whisper or 300 blackout

 

[Falar]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: fastline</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BachelorJack</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Fail. Crap platform.

Try again. </div></div>

why is that a crap platform? The AR? The round? semi auto?

Believe me, I am thinking about the issues at hand with semi auto and my 200M accuracy requirement. </div></div>

He is talking about the semiauto rugers.

 

[pale horse]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

I had a ruger carbine 44 mag as a kid with a aim point yep thats right my elder age dad bought it in 1968 for his failing eyes. The ruger 44 is a neat rifle I worked on a lux model some years back and had a lot of moving parts only draw back. 400 grain slugs seem pretty heavy I have shot 325 gr in a hand gun I guess it could be done. Neat rifle neat project just off the train from most hide builds good luck post results please. sounds like my way out build of a saiga 12 ga with using ak bolt and 6.8 rem barrel

 

[fastline]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

I am targeting a big bore for this build. I want to higher energy of a big bore and ballistics research seems to point to the fact that the .458 Socom is every bit as good as the 300 whisper.

Again, are there large concerns with a semi auto here? I know I have my own concerns. Specifically timing to get the bullet out of the barrel before any gas is released in the breach. I have heard that to be a non-issue in todays weapons but I still have to wonder.

 

[rifleman0321]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

Using a 220gr. bullet(which Remington is loading to 1000fps) in the SOCOM, the AR's will run, especially suppressed, from my research. In addition, the market is full of bullet choices in the .458 diameter. Sub moa groups are to be had if the internet is to be believed.(

) The SOCOM apparently also compares favorably to the ballistics offered by the .300 Whisper, and offers performance on game comparable to the .45-70, should hunting be one of your intended uses. Uses standard AR mags, the only bad I can see is a possibility of mag-length limits on load dimensions. Dang it, now I am contemplating trying one out! I need another gun about like I need a case of the clap. But it would be so much fun to knock the stuffing out of coyotes with it, in these oak thickets around here. Hmmm.

 

[fastline]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

Well, I would be shooting a WHOLE lot more that 220gr in a big bore. right now I am looking at 550-600gr in a .458 and if I go to the Beowulf, I would target about 700gr. this will obviously be a long bullet so probably not considerable for the AR. Leaning more towards the Rem 700 long but I am really wondering if I want to try and achieve a gas operated with this build. I know it complicates things but my .22lr build is more than satisfying. I could probably also build a bolt lockout if needed to operated in both ways like I did with my 22.

Are there any long action gas operated platforms that are easy/cheap builds? obviously I will have to buy a custom barrel for this thing anyway so that really just leave the action to decide on.

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

What's your purpose? Killing critters? Punching paper and tink'ng steel?

We determine the chambering by the intended goal.

1--Killing hogs and deer and hoping to recover them to eat?--44mag, 45acp (these projectiles expand at subsonic velocities)
2--Killing hogs and not really caring if we recover them?--300 whisper, 338 spectre (rounds that fire out of magazine fed semi autos, preferably with high mag capacity)
3--Big bore suppressed shenanigans?--458 socom, 50 beowulf, 50ae, 500 phantom....(just hitting stuff with large projectiles that don't expand but make up for it in mass ie >300gr projectiles)
4--Shooting paper and tink'ng steel from far away--300 whisper, 338 spectre (bullets with high BC's and high quality control pushed by small cases which give low SD and ES in subsonic loadings.

Figure that out first. Then we will work from there. Once we have an idea of purpose, we get a list of possible chamberings. Then we can sort through platforms.

 

[fastline]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

Uses in order

1. Deer/varmint shooting. Precise deer shot to minimize damage.
2. general plinking at around 200M
3. Comp shoots just for fun. Nothing close to serious here.
4. may use for larger game later if I can use in CO


Looking for multi shot, clip feed at a minimum. Plan to use a heavy barrel and probably a heavy action as well. Design goal is to obtain respectable accuracy over long distance for subsonic fire.

 

[rifleman0321]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

Well, long distance, subsonic, and large game(deer on up) are kind of like the cheap/quick/done right equation- you can pick any two. For large game at subsonic velocities you need 300gr. or heavier with large cross-sections. For accurate "long range" shooting you need high BC bullets, aka long and narrow. If you intend to hunt deer(as stated number one purpose on your list), you need a .44 or bigger bullet, really. Sure, deer are killed all the time with .22LR, and a .30 round will work if every thing goes right, but at subsonic velocities, you want a big hole. It won't matter when it comes to meat damge, because you can "eat right up to the hole" with slow moving bullets like that. And an imperfect shot will be less likely to generate a long tracking session on your part. I don't think you will find a "do-it-all" subsonic round that will make you happy for everything on your list. Maybe others will have better information or ideas here.

 

[fastline]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

I am pretty much focused on the Beowulf right now. Cheaper to load and slightly bigger. I would not load anything under 500gr for this subsonic rifle.200M should be very possible with this setup IMO but I am open to suggestions.

 

[Downrange1x]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

Fastline, check out AWC's Ruger 77/44 . They make an excellent suppressed .44 platform. These are more than sufficient for your desires our department have been using them for 5-6 years now for deer control in populated areas. I have taken 3 nice hogs in Ga. plus over 10 deer over the past 2 years with my personal platform. Their Mk.77 system will handle .44 special and magnum rounds. These beauties are whisper quiet and good out to 250-300 yd. range.

 

[OlsenG_360]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

the deerfield carbine isn't complex by autoloader standards, but it has a very noisy action, that alone would make me look elsewhere for what you're intending. accurate enough for the caliber i suppose, mine would hold 1.5" at 100 yards when i had it scoped.

if i was going for a quiet, heavy, slow moving round I'd probably skip the 44 mag and make the jump to .458 socom, for the better bullet selection if nothing else.

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jolly roger</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, long distance, subsonic, and large game(deer on up) are kind of like the cheap/quick/done right equation- you can pick any two. For large game at subsonic velocities you need 300gr. or heavier with large cross-sections. For accurate "long range" shooting you need high BC bullets, aka long and narrow. If you intend to hunt deer(as stated number one purpose on your list), you need a .44 or bigger bullet, really. Sure, deer are killed all the time with .22LR, and a .30 round will work if every thing goes right, but at subsonic velocities, you want a big hole. It won't matter when it comes to meat damge, because you can "eat right up to the hole" with slow moving bullets like that. And an imperfect shot will be less likely to generate a long tracking session on your part. I don't think you will find a "do-it-all" subsonic round that will make you happy for everything on your list. Maybe others will have better information or ideas here. </div></div><span style="font-weight: bold">This is the BEST DAMN POST I've read in months. You actually get it.</span>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Downrange1x</div><div class="ubbcode-body">AWC's Ruger 77/44...</div></div>The SRT conversions are better. Fast twist barrel options for suppressing heavier than 240gr projectiles and quieter while maintaining respectable velocities. Not knocking your advice, because someone who actually has hands on time posting is rare. And I'm not about to run off the only person who actually has some real experience. I'm just saying the SRT 77/44's are better, as someone who has tested all the big players on their own dime.

 

[bachelorjack]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

Fastline, you keep contradicting yourself. Responding with anything meaningful becomes HARD.

-The ruger carbine sucks.

-Beowulf sucks, because Alexander Arms controls it and the sale of brass. There were many guys with uppers and no brass or ammo for a really long time. No one would make brass either. Starline wouldn't run brass because there wasn't an order for it. Because AA didn't order it and wouldn't. And they didn't have any to sell either. As a company, I'd go elsewhere. They are just a phenomenal pain to deal with. If they weren't, the 458 SOCOM would have never become the success that it is.

Both the Beowulf and 458 SOCOM make lots of sense in AR15. After that they make exponentially less sense. Picking between the two I would go 458 SOCOM all the way. I'd only go with one of these if I HAD to build on an AR15. Otherwise, better options abound.

The 77/44's are good to build on. You can go 44mag or 50ae. 50ae giving you larger projectiles and cheapish brass. Downside is the suppressor would need to be longer. I can get a picture of a SRT 77/44 in 44mag and one in 50ae, but from memory the length is quite different. Both sound the same. The 50ae is a single shot unless you want to adapt a desert eagle mag to work with JB weld inside the factory ruger mag. Your call.

44mag, 50ae, 45acp, 50beo, and 458 socom can all plink and hit steel at 200yds. You don't need a heavy barrel or a heavy action. You need a good quality barrel and the proper twist for the projectile. You also need someone to handle the suppressor aspect that understands how not to mess up an accurate rifle. MANY suppressor companies don't understand what makes an accurate rifle, accurate. Often times the succeed in making it quiet, but the original accuracy is now lost. All my integral work goes to Doug at SRT Arms, because he has shown himself to be one of the few integral builders to understand this. The fact that his builds are also testing the most quiet doesn't hurt.

Cheapness scale for loading ammo:
1-9mm
2-45acp
3-300whisper/300 blackout
4-44mag
5-50ae
6-458 socom
7-338 Spectre
8-50 beowulf (Assuming it's okay with Bill Alexander for you to buy brass)

My killing rifle is chambered in 45acp. It shoots 230gr XTP's. A full 16" barrel gives me 1000fps with standard 45acp loads which work in any handgun. It's Sub MOA @100yds, beating 44mag and 50ae in the accuracy department. The projectiles also expand better than those two. I've relegated it's use to inside 125yds, but have made accurate shots on turtles out to 400yds. I don't think shots further past 125yds on game sized animals are prudent because of flight time and the animals ability to alter shot placement. But that's just me.

I've heard tell of custom 45-70 suppressed rigs shooting way heavy projectiles, silently and cheap. But I've never held one or seen one in person. Maybe someone else has.

45acp really tops out with 230gr projectiles.
44mag will take you to 300gr projectiles.
50ae will take you to 350gr projectiles.

Testing between the three on white tailed deer has shown all three to repeatedly take animals efficiently. I have a friend that prefers the louder 'tink' on steel of his 350gr projectiles to the added accuracy ability my 230gr projectiles offer. I prefer the accuracy since all three kill the same on deer.

I've killed 2X hogs with the 45acp rifle. Shot placement rewarded DRT kills. I imagine the other two would do equally as well, if not better. For my purposes I shoot hogs with the .338 spectre because it passes through multiples and is a magazine fed semi-auto. Shooting hogs requires maximum amount of carnage as quickly as possible. I haven't found anything else to give me that.

 

[steelcomp]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

I've got a Ruger .44 Carbine. I love it for what it is. LOL...someone mentioned a noisy action...I'll say!, but the thing is a thumper. I loaded 23.2g of 2400 with a 240g SJFN and it knocked the snot outa pigs, which is all I've ever shot with it. Remember, because it's a tube mag, you can only shoot a flat nose bullet.
Thing is, the Ruger is what it is. I wouldn't expect it to be something it's not, or try and make it something it wasn't intended to be. As also said above, there are much better platforms for that.
JMO

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Re: Ruger 44 mag carbine semi auto for silent choice?

I would offer another alternative, the Win '94AE .44Mag lever gun.

Mine is configured as a carbine, cycles .44Mag and .44SPC interchangeably, and the lever action makes a good compromise between a semi and a bolt action without any gas system bullet option questions. Mine loves Rem/UMC 180gr FNSP Jacketed loads.

Might work with a suppressor; IDK..., not my cuppa...

Greg