Ruger SFAR chewing brass

[Triton225]

Got a SFAR, and I noticed it was chewing up some of the case heads on the brass. Plus always had a flyer in all groups. Anyway, contacted ruger, great service. Sent off and returned on thier dime in about 10 days. New barrel and BCG.
Shot some more, and still doing it, but not as bad and as often. Accuracy about same. Unsuppressed and setting 3. Well last few rounds I moved to setting 2 and it seemed to help but didn't shoot many since changing.
Have not got the 200 rd "beak in" done yet. Don't know if that will make a difference and haven't contacted ruger again, atleast not till I run it a bit more.
Has anyone else here had the same issue or know someone that has. I've read some others have had similar issues. 1 suggestion was run a heavier buffer weight. Seem Luke I have also read the sfar has a really stout buffer spring too.
Any experiences out there?

 

[BCP]

Post pics of brass?

 

[Triton225]

Also, as for the flyers. Thiers minimal space between side of gas block and rail. Maybe the gas block is contacting the rail when barrel whips?

 

[hlee]

Is this the carbine or rifle length gas? I have a guess on which it is. Playing with the gas/buffer/spring might help. Federal brass is considered soft as well. This may just “be the nature of the beast” and you’ll need to run your brass over a file to knock down the burrs before reloading.

 

[Triton225]

It's the 16" model and has a mid length gas system.

 

[bfoosh006]

Setting "3" is the most "open"... so that will cause the most vigorous / abrupt cycling.

I would do the classic test of
Adj. GB set at "1"
One mag fed , loaded round... fire, see if the BCG locks back.
Do it a few times.

If it fails to 100% lock back, every time... repeat with the Adj. GB set a "2".

A heavier buffer might help fine tune it at the various settings.

And , yes... a full break in will help smooth out everything.... including function.
Make sure you cleaned the rifle , and then relubed it as needed.

 

[BCP]

Overgassed maybe extractor/ejector/bolt face has a burr or sharp edge?

 

[mtrmn]

Appears the ejector is flat-faced with sharp edges. Round it off by chucking it in a drill and holding it at varying angles against a sharpening stone. It can be spherical on the end and it won't hurt anything as long as you don't shorten the total length. Could possibly help with fliers as well.

 

[Gtscotty]

To some extent I think it's the nature of the beast with a mid-length gas LW .308, my Rogue slapped brass around too.

That said, it looks like you're making things worse by not turning the gas down to 2, and maybe by running loads a bit too hot. What's your load in that Fed brass? I've been playing with Fed, LC LR, Win and SSA brass lately and Fed has similar capacity to LC, but is softer, takes me a grain more or so for equal velocity in Win brass. My SFAR was rough on brass like that, with bolt gun loads, got better when I dialed things back a bit. I'm now using 165gr TGK over 40.3gr Ar-Comp, and 150gr IL over 41.8gr in mine with Fed brass, 0.2 more on both with LC brass.

 

[Mattram40]

Got a SFAR, and I noticed it was chewing up some of the case heads on the brass. Plus always had a flyer in all groups. Anyway, contacted ruger, great service. Sent off and returned on thier dime in about 10 days. New barrel and BCG.
Shot some more, and still doing it, but not as bad and as often. Accuracy about same. Unsuppressed and setting 3. Well last few rounds I moved to setting 2 and it seemed to help but didn't shoot many since changing.
Have not got the 200 rd "beak in" done yet. Don't know if that will make a difference and haven't contacted ruger again, atleast not till I run it a bit more.
Has anyone else here had the same issue or know someone that has. I've read some others have had similar issues. 1 suggestion was run a heavier buffer weight. Seem Luke I have also read the sfar has a really stout buffer spring too.
Any experiences out there?

This started happening to me at the range this last weekend. Bullets were getting lodged in the chamber. I opened the BCG and looked in the chamber and there were tiny brass shavings everywhere. I opened the extractor and it was caked with brass. I cleaned it and it started cycling fine again, but I kept the shells and they had similar markings on all of them. It’s eating the brass, and I think the build up in the BCG is causing the failure to feed.

I called Ruger and the lady I spoke with said she had another guy send his SFAR back for the same reasons. I went to a gunsmith and he could figure out why. He is connected with someone at Ruger and they overnighted an entire new upper. Haven’t shot it yet. I’ll report back.

 

[TryLikeHell]

Anyway, contacted ruger, great service. Sent off and returned on thier dime in about 10 days.

That's a quick turn around anyways. I'll be waiting about 5 weeks for my PR Savage to get back. Casing neck expansion locking it into the barrel throat. Im suspecting barrel swap too. Can't see a bunch of barrel machining taking place over it.

 

[Scotts556]

Is this the carbine or rifle length gas? I have a guess on which it is. Playing with the gas/buffer/spring might help. Federal brass is considered soft as well. This may just “be the nature of the beast” and you’ll need to run your brass over a file to knock down the burrs before reloading.

this isnt the "the nature of the beast" and that ejector swipe is a sure as shit sign its unlocking to early

 

[msgriff]

There are some who are buying the 20" just for the rifle length gas, then cut and thread to 16". Same handguard for both.

 

[Gtscotty]

this isnt the "the nature of the beast" and that ejector swipe is a sure as shit sign its unlocking to early

When the beast is a mid-gas .308, especially with limited gas adjustment, it's been my experience that early unlocking is usually part of their nature. Hence the common use of intermediate gas, and why some folks are buying the 30" rifle-gas and cutting down. OP having the gas turned up certainly doesn't help an already sensitive setup.

 

[Triton225]

So, is the sfar's buffer and spring a ar15 buffer and spring or a ar10?
Going to follow up with ruger again after I run some more rounds on 2. But thinking maybe a heavier buffer and/or say a Tubbs flatware spring may help.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Are these factory or hand loads?

Did you read the manual?

My suggestion would be turn the gas to OFF/0

Manually cycle a few rounds and inspect it. See of it is leaving impressions in the base. If you have access to some sort of a headspace comparator measure a few pieces of brass, write this # down.. if the brass looks fine continue. If it’s damaged your load is too hot.

Then, if everything looks good, shoot a few rounds on setting, 1, 2,3 Looking for bolt lock back Look for damage and signs of early unlocking. Use the headspace comparator( if u have) to see if the cartridges cycled by the gas system is stretching out, which would indicate early unlocking compared to those shot with a gas turned off..

If you are shooting hand loads, consider a different powder. Dont chase velocity in gas sensitive system.

If its factory ammo, try some different types.

 

[Triton225]

As for the ammo, have done all the above mentioned.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

As for the ammo, have done all the above mentioned.

Are these hand loads or factory ammo? I haven’t seen you answer that.

Basically what ammo are you using?

 

[GreenGO Juan]

What did the brass look like with the gas on zero. Pictures?

Did you notice a change in the headspace reading as you went from 0 to 3. If so how much?

 

[beenjammin]

I took the gas system on one last weekend and installed a Seekens adjustable, you cannot reuse the Ruger gas tube as it is cut short for their gas block. So if you do this go ahead and get a new gas tube. Otherwise it was straight forward.

Also.. their carrier is shorter then other .308 carrier ( actually ar15 length) so if you want to use a JP captured spring, use the ar15 version.

 

[StaveyIL]

I switched from using a dual ejector toolcraft bolt in a 6.5cm build recently due to it beating up my brass. Completely solved my problem. If I remember correctly, in my case it was denting the case mouths excessively on ejection. I do always run an adjustable gas block as well. Not sure if the sfar uses this style bolt. Just thought I’d put it out there.

 

[Triton225]

Factory ammo and handloads. Different brands and Different powders and charge weights. No measurements, no headspace gauge.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Factory ammo and handloads. Different brands and Different powders and charge weights. No measurements, no headspace gauge.

Did the Factory stuff chew up too?

What did the cases look like with the gas turned off and if you tried different settings? Do you have pics?

On the hand load what powder, charge weight, bullet?

If you don’t have a head space comparator, its kinda hard to know know if you are over sizing the brass for the chamber. If its early unlocking and stretching the cases its not going to be a reliable reading and likely not size consistently.

 

[Triton225]

Well, on hotter loads (not max) I'm still getting ejector marks and some case head damage.
I think I'm gonna try a tubbs flat wore spring and h2 buffer i have and see how that goes.
I believe the SFAR uses a std ar15 buffer and spring can someone confirm this? (Looks same as my other ar15 buffer and springs)

 

[Triton225]

Well, just got off phone with ruger. (Not a tech, but CS) He said ruger has said that the brass chewing is probably going to be the nature of the beast with the SFAR and the ejector marks is most likely a inherent issue with dual ejector. Not a reloader friendly gun.

 

[mtrmn]

Well, on hotter loads (not max) I'm still getting ejector marks and some case head damage.
I think I'm gonna try a tubbs flat wore spring and h2 buffer i have and see how that goes.
I believe the SFAR uses a std ar15 buffer and spring can someone confirm this? (Looks same as my other ar15 buffer and springs)

Std ar carbine style buffer is 3.25" long. If your present buffer is the ssme length, then yes an ar15 buffer will work. For a 308 you're gonna want a buffer that weighs 5.4 oz minimum. That's H3. Before anything else, you need to see how much your present buffer weighs and measure the length. No other length will work, and you want to go heavier on the buffer.

The spring rate on a 308 should be a good bit stiffer than a 5.56 spring. I'm basing this info on other brand/type AR308 carbine systems. I know nothing of this Ruger, so ymmv.

 

[GreenGO Juan]

Std ar carbine style buffer is 3.25" long. If your present buffer is the ssme length, then yes an ar15 buffer will work. For a 308 you're gonna want a buffer that weighs 5.4 oz minimum. That's H3. Before anything else, you need to see how much your present buffer weighs and measure the length. No other length will work, and you want to go heavier on the buffer.

The spring rate on a 308 should be a good bit stiffer than a 5.56 spring. I'm basing this info on other brand/type AR308 carbine systems. I know nothing of this Ruger, so ymmv.

These systems do not have the normal AR-308 Bolt. Its AR-15 sized, much lighter.

While buffer and Springs may tame it down.

He still has not mentioned any of the particulars of the hand loads he is running through the rifle. These light BCG .308 are very sensitive to powder burn rate/Port pressure.

 

[beenjammin]

We shot a 20' SFAR this weekend with an installed seekins adjustable gas block ( took the factory off). Brass looked fine. No marks. Standard recoil buffer/ spring also.

Just get a gas block that offers more adjustment settings and a new gas tube because you cannot reuse Ruger's and it will fix your issue and you can enjoy the rifle and the brass.

 

[AXMC]

We shot a 20' SFAR this weekend with an installed seekins adjustable gas block ( took the factory off). Brass looked fine. No marks. Standard recoil buffer/ spring also.

Just get a gas block that offers more adjustment settings and a new gas tube because you cannot reuse Ruger's and it will fix your issue and you can enjoy the rifle and the brass.

What's the gas block journal diameter, .750" ?
Thanks

 

[CaptArab]

There are some who are buying the 20" just for the rifle length gas, then cut and thread to 16". Same handguard for both.

I'd like to hear a review from someone doing that... After way too many aero M5 setups, rlgs 16" 308 is perfection

 

[jiffylube84]

I am so glad to find out I'm not the only one that beats the heck of the brass. My 20" SFAR is doing the same thing, I have tried winchester PowerPoint 150's, Winchester Deer Season XP 150's, Hornady Whitetail 150's, Federal powershok 150's and my handloads that are 150gr Nosler ballistic tips over 44.0gr of Ramshot TAC. All of the brass gets beat up but my loads are a little worse. Funny thing is I have used this load for years in my Savage MSR10 Hunter, and both the MSR10 and the SFAR shoot this load well under 1 MOA and this really isn't a hot load. When I first got the gun I had some failures to extract I sent it back to Ruger and they replaced the BCG, this fixed my failure to extract issues but it still beats the snot out of the brass. So no it's not just the 16"ers it is happening with the 20"s to. I absolutely love this gun but I'm very worried about realibity after a few thousand rounds.

 

[jwhjwh54]

How is the recoil on these? Thinking about one for hogs and follow up shots. Right now my #1 is a 6.8 then back up is 556 and me being down to 90 rounds of 6.8… I’m looking for another gun with more ass than a 556. I’ve got plenty of 308 ammo but if it’s a boomer on the recoil I’m not sure that’s better than zipping them with the 556 and no recoil

 

[jiffylube84]

How is the recoil on these? Thinking about one for hogs and follow up shots. Right now my #1 is a 6.8 then back up is 556 and me being down to 90 rounds of 6.8… I’m looking for another gun with more ass than a 556. I’ve got plenty of 308 ammo but if it’s a boomer on the recoil I’m not sure that’s better than zipping them with the 556 and no recoil

 

[jiffylube84]

The recoil with the factory brake is less than my Savage MSR10, I have a 18" 6.8 with no muzzle device, the recoil of the SFAR is only slightly more than my very hot 120gr 6.8 loads. I took the factory huge brake off of my SFAR and put a V7 titanium micro brake on it to shorten the gun and take some of the weight off the end of that 20" barrel, now the recoil is quiet a bit more than with the factory brake but it is still less than 243 bolt gun levels of recoil.

 

[jwhjwh54]

Picked up an sfar . Hopefully I won’t have some of the cycling issues others have had but put a cmc trigger in it already.

Does anyone know if say a proof or other brand barrel will fit?
Also it looks like these may prefer 165 or 180 grain bullets?

 

[doubloon]

Got a SFAR, and I noticed it was chewing up some of the case heads on the brass

I bought the 20" hoping to avoid a lot of the problems people are having with the 16" but all my brass looks just like this as well. PPU and Remington factory loads. I had two primers pop out on the Core-Lokt, don't particularly look overpressured thoughts elsewhere are maybe the gun is unlocking too early

ETA: These shots where all suppressed on port setting one. FWIW the size of the ports in the regulator for settings 3, 2 and 1 measure for me to be ~0.114", ~0.091" and ~0.068" respectively. I haven't removed the gas block but guesstimating from a borescope picture the barrel port "appears" to be somewhere between ~0.115" - ~0.120"

I didn't have "flyers" in every group but I was shooting 100yds from a bean bag with not the steadiest hand and a 3-9 hunting scope.





The Hog Hammer is nickel plated ... SFAR don't care

 

[BCP]

That remington stuff is too hot for your rifle, you can try dialing back the gas block or shoot something with a 150gr bullet and lower advertised velocity. Milspec FMJ bulk ammo for example.

 

[jwhjwh54]

my SFAR has been working great. I want to try some fusion 165gr's but it shot 180gr fusions really well and some 150gr nicely. I think the 165 will be the sweet spot.

anecdotally, it felt like the 150 gr's killed the hogs better than the 180's though.... they all expired, i just was surprised on a couple that i dropped with the 150's that didn't drop as quick with the 180's

 

[doubloon]

That remington stuff is too hot for your rifle, you can try dialing back the gas block or shoot something with a 150gr bullet and lower advertised velocity. Milspec FMJ bulk ammo for example.

Gas block was set on one. To dial it back farther I would need to set it to 0 making it a bolt action AR-10ish or buy a different gas block.

I have 100 cases from some 145gr rounds that look exactly the same or worse.

If it won't shoot OTS ammo what good is it?

my SFAR has been working great

I've seen quite a few people make posts like this. Got any pictures of the brass or the groups @100yds? Round count? Did you have any failures during "break-in"? How many rounds before "broken in"?

Seems to be about 50/50 between people who have rifles that work great and people who have rifles that struggle to function poorly.

FWIW the groups from this rifle were mostly fine for hunting and there were mostly no "failures" other than those that Ruger promises will happen in the first 200 or so rounds.

But popped primers and bent rims are not "normal" for a properly functioning rifle especially with OTS ammo.

 

[BCP]

Your cases look 1000% normal for an AR10 except for the popped primers which are obviously over pressure for your rifle. If you are popping primers on other ammo without the suppressor I'd send the rife back to Ruger. Otherwise your rifle is normal.

 

[doubloon]

Your cases look 1000% normal for an AR10

I already own one AR10-ish, been shooting it for 10+ years now with every kind of OTS ammo and some fairly hot hand loads.

Not a single piece of brass has ever come out of that gun with bases chewed up anywhere near anything like the ones in the picture. When it's over gassed it will maybe dent some cases around the necks and shoulders but it doesn't shave brass off or bend the rims.

Earlier you said it was too hot and all I had to do was dial back the block or shoot some lighter ammo ... done both. Now you say it's totally normal for AR10s but nobody I know who shoots AR10 has problems like this. Maybe I just don't know enough people or maybe all the people I know have rifles that work the way they're supposed to ... I can't say which it is.

Thanks for sharing your opinions but I don't think they're helping me so don't worry about me anymore and free yourself up to go help some other people.

 

[msgriff]

I already own one AR10-ish, been shooting it for 10+ years now with every kind of OTS ammo and some fairly hot hand loads.

Not a single piece of brass has ever come out of that gun with bases chewed up anywhere near anything like the ones in the picture. When it's over gassed it will maybe dent some cases around the necks and shoulders but it doesn't shave brass off or bend the rims.

Earlier you said it was too hot and all I had to do was dial back the block or shoot some lighter ammo ... done both. Now you say it's totally normal for AR10s but nobody I know who shoots AR10 has problems like this. Maybe I just don't know enough people or maybe all the people I know have rifles that work the way they're supposed to ... I can't say which it is.

Thanks for sharing your opinions but I don't think they're helping me so don't worry about me anymore and free yourself up to go help some other people.

Based on your attitude, I going to suggest contacting Ruger.

 

[jwhjwh54]

Gas block was set on one. To dial it back farther I would need to set it to 0 making it a bolt action AR-10ish or buy a different gas block.

I have 100 cases from some 145gr rounds that look exactly the same or worse.

If it won't shoot OTS ammo what good is it?


I've seen quite a few people make posts like this. Got any pictures of the brass or the groups @100yds? Round count? Did you have any failures during "break-in"? How many rounds before "broken in"?

Seems to be about 50/50 between people who have rifles that work great and people who have rifles that struggle to function poorly.

FWIW the groups from this rifle were mostly fine for hunting and there were mostly no "failures" other than those that Ruger promises will happen in the first 200 or so rounds.

But popped primers and bent rims are not "normal" for a properly functioning rifle especially with OTS ammo.

I'll get some photos of the brass and groups next time i go hunting. I've got video i'll see about uploading of me just ripping through 200 rounds of fiocchi FMJ's. I had a blown primer on some Bullshit 308 i reloaded years ago. It was some of my first attempts at reloading and i was thinking... hmmm maybe i can run this garbage through the SFAR but it was no good. My Dad actually has that on film and me saying.. yeah no more of these reloads hah. I ended up just pulling the bullets because they were loaded too hot and the OAL was too long for the mags.

My Dad just got an SFAR because of mine so we'll have two to look at and compare. His has 0 bullets through his and mine has about 350.

It'll likely be after the 4th holiday but i may see if i can get to the farm earlier and report back.

 

[Triton225]

Reloads or factory, mine chews up case head like nowhere AR or any rifle has ever done. Actually has sharp edges on the case head.
Ruger has replacer barrel and bcg once. Did not fix issue.
This seems to not be a uncommon issue. Maybe they have figured it out now. I think I'll call and ask. Brass should not get chewed like that.

 

[AXMC]

How many of you with these issues have tried replacing the adjustable gas block? Ruger's only has 4 settings (including closed) while most have a lot more.

 

[Triton225]

I have not.

 

[BCP]

I already own one AR10-ish, been shooting it for 10+ years now with every kind of OTS ammo and some fairly hot hand loads.

Not a single piece of brass has ever come out of that gun with bases chewed up anywhere near anything like the ones in the picture. When it's over gassed it will maybe dent some cases around the necks and shoulders but it doesn't shave brass off or bend the rims.

Earlier you said it was too hot and all I had to do was dial back the block or shoot some lighter ammo ... done both. Now you say it's totally normal for AR10s but nobody I know who shoots AR10 has problems like this. Maybe I just don't know enough people or maybe all the people I know have rifles that work the way they're supposed to ... I can't say which it is.

Thanks for sharing your opinions but I don't think they're helping me so don't worry about me anymore and free yourself up to go help some other people.

Fine bud enjoy your chewed up brass. It’s not like I’ve owned a dozen ar10s or anything. Fuck do I know lol.

 

[MadDuner]

How many of you with these issues have tried replacing the adjustable gas block? Ruger's only has 4 settings (including closed) while most have a lot more.

My 20" SFAR has only chewed up a single brand of Serbian MilSurp brass.
Everything else it's been happy with.
I just won't run THAT specific ammo through it and it'll be happy.

 

[CaptArab]

Said it before and I'll say it again-

16" 308s should ideally be rifle length or intermediate at the shortest. Large frames don't do well with conventional baffle stack suppressors.

RLGS + HUXWRX is the only way'ta role.

My 2c

 

[doubloon]

How many of you with these issues have tried replacing the adjustable gas block

I was thinking about it and may still try it. I think I have a spare Seekins block somewhere.

I only hesitate because I think if I did that and got it down to a point where it didn't destroy brass then it wouldn't cycle at all. Maybe a lighter spring would be needed but then that light BCG isn't supplying a hell of a lot of inertial dampening so it might just squeeze the balloon and move the problem someehere else. Less gas might require a lighter spring but make the spring too light and maybe it brings back the early and egregiously sharp unlock.

I think the Stoner lightweight BCG is something like 15oz, I think JPE has one around the same weight as a AR15 BCG, I think my DPMS BCG is heavier than any of that (18oz? 20oz?) and when I put the SFAR BCG on my wife's super scientific and extraordinarily accurate cucumber scale it eyeballs somewhere between 10oz-12oz. The point of all that noise being maybe it would be worth the time to find something that runs reliably and well with a lighter BCG then work backward from there looking at gas port sizes, spring weights and buffers.

ETA: this thread over on 308AR seems to speak to what I'm talking about when I say "squeeze the balloon" ... a properly functioning AR has a balance of timing and force between gas, spring, tube, buffer and bolt so changing just one thing is probably not enough

Gas tubes, barrel gas ports, and buffer weight

This might end up as a long thread, but it shouldn't be too long. It's a lecture, or a sermon, depending on how you look at it, and I'm not looking for feedback on what I'm about to say. I'm publishing information. In reality, it's pretty damned simple, but manufacturers are making it difficult f...

forum.308ar.com

My 20" SFAR has only chewed up a single brand

If there was only one brand of crappy ammo this rifle chewed up I'd probably do the same but 5 different brands/weights of ammo that work fine in every other gun I own all get chewed up in this rifle. I haven't yet identified any ammo this thing won't grind.

The issues that are out there seem to vary a lot. Some people trace their problems back to a loose gas block and for others it's something different. Other than you, I can't say I've seen anybody who's happy with the way theirs runs who has talked about the brass other than how far it throws the brass and where.