Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

gpowers

gpowers

Long Time Lurker
Full Member
Minuteman
Sep 3, 2007
141
5
West Virginia
#1
Last month I replaced the batteries for my Kestrel 4500NV. I try to not leave them in when it is not being used, but this time I left them in. I got it out yesterday and the batteries had leaked and pretty much ruined my Kestrel. It will turn on but it freezes up, the buttons are not as responsive, and the back light does not work. The batteries were Duracell Procell and were dated 3-2016. I talked to both companies this morning, got the runaround from Duracell and got the worst case from Kestrel. My unit is not repairable due to their manufacturing process. My only option is to send mine in and pay a reduced price for a new one. I fully accept what has happened with the batteries as my fault, but still not happy that I now have a $700 paperweight that is less than nine months old. This post is just a reminder to remove your batteries after you use your meter.
 
#2
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

This has happened to a few folks here already, you guys had bad luck. I swear I leave cheap Chinese batteries in stuff all the time and have never had an issue. Keep banging on Duracell's door and see if you can find anyone on the web who has had theme successfully replace a product that was ruined because of premature battery leakage. Make sure you don't catch yourself violating any of their storage recommendations as far as temperature and such.
 
#3
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

I store everything properly in the house. Not too optimistic on Duracell doing anything at this point. This is the first time I have had batteries go bad on me.
 
#4
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Yeah, This happened to me as well.. I also had Duracells in my Kestrel.

Did not use the Kestrel for a month or so.. when I grabbed it to find the batteries
had leaked out and corroded the battery compartment.

Not impressed, for what they charge for batteries they should not leak.

Like the Op, my batteries were not out of date.
 
#5
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

You'll be lucky if Duracell offers you anything more than a replacement set of batteries although I have heard tale that they have, in the past, offered some form of compensation to folks who have had electronics ruined by their product's leaking like a colander.
 
#6
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Just yesterday I got out my electronic earpro that I hadn't used in a few months (been using earplugs) and the batteries had leaked. Thankfully minor and it cleaned up fine. Just looked to see what batteries I had in there - yup, Duracell.
 
#7
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Bummer to hear, sounds like 4500's must still be doing some functions even in standby/off.

How old is your unit? If it is less than 90 days, and you paid by credit card, I would contact your CC company and see if they have "purchase protection". Some Visa and MC will protect from loss and damage up to 90 days. Its one of those benefits for using their card.
 
#8
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

From the Streamlight webpage...
=================================================
DURACELL — http://www.duracell.com/en-US/battery-care-disposal.jspx
DURACELL® BATTERY GUARANTEE
If you're not completely satisfied with a Duracell® product, contact us.
All of our batteries are guaranteed against defects in material and workmanship. Should any device be damaged by these batteries due to such defects, we will either repair or replace it if it is sent with the batteries. Send with postage prepaid to:

Duracell
Berkshire Corporate Park
Bethel, CT 06801
Att: Consumer Dept.
Phone: 1-800-551-2355
===================================================
Call them on this BS. Their product failed and they are liable for the damage...

Good luck!
 
#9
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

The contact info provided just above is who I contacted this morning. I didn't hear anything from them that gave me the warm and fuzzy.
My 4500NV Horus is less than nine months old.
Just irritated that Kestrel did not offer anything besides trade it in and add cash for a new one.
 
#10
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gpowers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The contact info provided just above is who I contacted this morning. I didn't hear anything from them that gave me the warm and fuzzy.
My 4500NV Horus is less than nine months old.
Just irritated that Kestrel did not offer anything besides trade it in and add cash for a new one.</div></div>

I can't see how it's Kestrel's fault, though. Duracell needs to be held to their guarantee. Is that same wording on the battery packaging for the batteries you bought?
 
#12
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gpowers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just irritated that Kestrel did not offer anything besides trade it in and add cash for a new one.</div></div>

Sorry but I don't have a Kestral so no dog in the fight here but that they even offered you a discounted replacement I think was generous.

Take you new car back to the dealer and ask them to replace the carpet because your Starbucks cup leaked coffee everywhere and they are going to look at you like a unicorn with a dick growing out of it's forehead.
 
#13
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

They offer discounts to upgrade on every product they sell.
They offered nothing special to me.
And as to the car analogy, they would not tell you to throw away your car just because you had some bad gas.
 
#14
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Again why would you get something special because you (or duracell) ruined your equipment?

Your analogy doesn't work because the product your ruined is not modular, like a car, where just the motor can be replaced. The batteries ruined the circuit board most likely, which all of the components are soldered to, thus ruining the entire unit. Nice try.
 
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#15
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

gpowers - you can try also to contact the person you bought the Kestrel from. Not sure it will gain you much since in this case it really sounds like the issues are related to the batteries. I know in the other thread here recently about battery damage to devices it was pointed out that the main "leakers" where alkeline batteries. I make sure I used rechargeable batteries in all my devices so I get the most use out of them. A bi-product is that the batteries seem to not leak - some say because of the better design for charging / discharging cycles.

The person who posted that other thread did get their device replaced by Duracell. Finally, you can also perhaps look to your homeowners insurance if you get no relief from any of the other sources, though i would really attempt to get Duracell to pay for this as it really sounds like their fault.
 
#16
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

HA -- finally found the thread:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post3512162

Rayovac batteries, but in a Kestrel as well, and seems like Rayovac covered the cost of the new Kestrel. You should point this out to Duracell if you have issues - maybe contact the OP on that thread to make certain everything worked out in the end.
 
#17
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Herofish, I bought this directly from Kestrel. Never thought of the insurance route I will look into that, thanks.

StupidSlow, My analogy made about as much sense as yours, thank you. Its obvious you have nothing to contribute, so thanks for that. Since its obvious you really are slow, I will recap. I stated that my Kestrel was ruined because of batteries, that the battery company was not going to stand behind their product, and Kestrel due to the manufacturing process can't, not won't, fix my unit. I never blamed them or accused them, just stated I was pissed that my nearly new Kestrel was trashed. The reason of this post was for information, not pointing fingers.
 
#18
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HeroFish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">HA -- finally found the thread:

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthre...rue#Post3512162

Rayovac batteries, but in a Kestrel as well, and seems like Rayovac covered the cost of the new Kestrel. You should point this out to Duracell if you have issues - maybe contact the OP on that thread to make certain everything worked out in the end.</div></div>

It did work out, Rayovac cut a refund check for the MSRP of a Kestrel 4000 and threw in a free pack of batteries. I ended up upgrading to a Kestrel 4500NV because the price difference was minimal.

To the OP of this thread I suggest calling Duracell back and make a point that their batteries ruined a new device, reminding them of their customer guarantee. It sucks to have this happen and I wish you the best of luck. I wouldn't give Kestrel a hard time, it sucks and it's frustrating I know but really there are only so many repairable parts on a one of those units. Rachel was a big help when I talked to her and she did everything she could for me.
 
#19
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

I apologize if I came off blaming Kestrel, that was not my intent. They simply stated that they could not fix it, not that they won't fix it. I hold nothing against them in this, they did not make the batteries. I have spoke with three different people at Duracell so far and still have not gotten anything close to what I want to hear. Rachel stated that if it was the original batteries, which are Rayovac, then she may have been able to do something. I have been reading and found that Duracell seems to be at the center of a lot of these. Just wanted to post this so that maybe it would help someone else.
 
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#22
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gpowers</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
StupidSlow, My analogy made about as much sense as yours, thank you. Its obvious you have nothing to contribute, so thanks for that. Since its obvious you really are slow, I will recap. I stated that my Kestrel was ruined because of batteries, that the battery company was not going to stand behind their product, and Kestrel due to the manufacturing process can't, not won't, fix my unit. I never blamed them or accused them, just stated I was pissed that my nearly new Kestrel was trashed. The reason of this post was for information, not pointing fingers. </div></div>'

I didn't want for you to get your undies in a bunch but it sounded more like you were equally pissed at Kestral as you were at Duracell which I found goofy which is why I said anything at all.
 
#23
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Not that I think that anyone but Duracell should be accountable in the OP's case, it would be nice if electronics enclosures were designed to handle a leak. I'd expect a higher price point though.
 
#25
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

What am I missing here? I leave batts in stuff all the time. Smoke detectors, earpro, timers, etc...So why are these leaking? My understanding of electricity ends with, flip the switch and see if the light comes on.
 
#27
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

This issue is coming up again, eh? So as Layton asked, does the Kestrel do anything while it is turned off? In my world, that's a dumb-ass question.

But in my world, things are simple. Hammers beat, nails hold, glue sticks, and lightbulbs are usually 'bright' when turned on. Whereas this little electronic do-ma-hickey with all kinds of "whiz-bang-thingamajigs" and it's teeth are blue (Tidy-Bowl Man?) has all kinds of (magical secret stuff) going on inside.

Is it REALLY off, or is is still listening/monitoring you? Who are it's blue teeth chatting to, and sharing your secrets with?

So yeah, what's going on there, inside these things, in the dark? Lots of batteries are seeming to leak in them. Hints at something sinister.
 
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#28
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

The 4500 continues to record data when it is off, so there really is no off unless the batteries are taken out. This does seem to be the model with problems, don't hear much about any of the other models.
 
#29
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Use Energizer Ultimate Lithium.. they have like a 1200 year shelf life, and THEY WON'T LEAK. i cant tell you how many mini mags, and d cell mag lites i have thrown out that leaked, and welded themselves into the tubes. cant even find out who made the damn batteries without a bunch of effort. All my flashlights have lithiums in there now, mostly rechargables.... never had a leak
 
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#30
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

I am pretty sure the recorded data is for trending purposes. I suspect it monitors temp also, but not 100% on that. In fact, I was told that the reason the top of the molle case is open is so the external probes can access the external environment. This was by Kestrel themselves (NK).
 
#31
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Call and email them. Remind them of their warranty. Keep track of the dates, times, and points of contact. Consider email or registered mail as well for evidence. Then if no satisfaction, small claims is rather inexpensive.
 
#32
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

The 4500 manual states even in the off mode, it collects data.


<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">To turn the Kestrel Meter ON, press the button. To turn the Kestrel Meter OFF, hold the button for
two seconds. Or, press the button, then press the button with the word OFF highlighted. (Note:
your unit will continue to automatically store data when the power is turned off.)</span></span>


If further goes into preserving battery life and true off:

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic">Off</span>
Press the then the button to turn the display off. Even when the Kestrel Meter’s display is turned
off, the unit will continue to automatically store data at the defined Store Rate. The battery life will be
decreased if data is stored frequently. The only way to completely shut off the unit is to remove the
batteries. Custom settings and data will be stored when the batteries are removed.</span>


Kinds shitty design if you ask me, if you remove the battery, then you must recal the compass:

<span style="font-weight: bold">AAA batteries have a magnetic signature that is strong enough to influence
compass readings. In order to negate the batteries effect, it is important that the Kestrel 4500’s batteries
remain in the same orientation as they were when the unit was calibrated.</span>


I understand maintaining your own equipment, but the battery depletion is just poor engineering. Not sure about the other units i/e 3000 and below. I have the 2500 and it only uses the 2302 coin battery, been going for a year now on the same batt. If anything Kestral should change the design to use a lithiwm or a sealed rechargeable batt.

http://www.nkhome.com/pdfs/kestrel-instructions/K4500_Instructions_7.28.10_WEB.pdf
 
#34
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

This happened to me, but I gave my non-functional Kestrel to my tinkering buddy with some time on his hands, and he cracked it open, removed the battery corrosion somehow, and put it all back together for me. Works like a champ (even compared side-by-side to a buddy's Kestrel and verified numbers)!
smile.gif


So if you're handy and just have a "brick" on your hands that you can't get any value out of, might be work cracking it open and seeing if you can recover it.
 
#35
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

I wish he had posted a utube video - sort of like the iphone fix for dropping in water (which works well by the way :).

There really is nothing to lose by attempting to fix it, as if its unwarrantable (like battery leakage) then you only option is the loyalty discount which is for a Kestrel in any condition.

I just don't really worry about it too much. I use batteries that are rechargeable and have never had them leak yet. I will point out the military Kestrel comes with non-rechargeable lithium batteries.

I think my 4500 loses 1% per week. So, it should last quite a while on one set of batteries. I just did a check, and this is a ball park. I would be interested in hearing other users #'s of battery life while the unit is off. Its pretty easy to monitor, just turn it on, write down the battery level, turn it off, and wait, repeat.
 
#37
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Same thing happened to me. Pretty new NV4500 with the horus software DOA due to batteries, sent it in to Krestral to see if it could be repaired. Krestral stated that they would have to replace it at a lower replacement cost. It was a lot cheaper than a new one, I told them to go ahead and call me for a card number.

A new one showed up about 1 1/2 weeks later with a invoice for no charge.

Krestral is a stand up company and I went out and bought a second one (3500) as a back up. They have a great product and a great customer service.

I have recommended them to several shooters and stand up companies should be rewarded.
 
#38
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Sorry for your problem. Just took the battery out of mine. It was a Sony battery & no problems. I always had good luck with Duracell. I trashed many flashlights from leaking Everready batteries.
 
#41
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mjb2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">From the Streamlight webpage...
=================================================
DURACELL — http://www.duracell.com/en-US/battery-care-disposal.jspx
DURACELL® BATTERY GUARANTEE
If you're not completely satisfied with a Duracell® product, contact us.
All of our batteries are guaranteed against defects in material and workmanship. Should any device be damaged by these batteries due to such defects, we will either repair or replace it if it is sent with the batteries. Send with postage prepaid to:

Duracell
Berkshire Corporate Park
Bethel, CT 06801
Att: Consumer Dept.
Phone: 1-800-551-2355
===================================================
Call them on this BS. Their product failed and they are liable for the damage...

Good luck! </div></div>

i would call them and be polite but firm. have a copy of your receipt, or a replacement cost for a new unit. its definitely NOT standard practice to take out battery's from the units.

i hope you are able to get it straightened out with them.
 
#44
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

First mistake-> using alkaline batteries

Always use Lithium batteries (<span style="font-weight: bold">non</span>-rechargable plain lithium). Much longer lasting, lighter, far better cold weather performance and don't leak and corrode when depleted.

Yep, more 'spensive but well worth it.
 
#45
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Wow-

Out of 14 Kestrels that I've seen run hard for 5 years strong, I've never once seen the batteries leak. I wonder if using them frequently leads to more replacement batteries, which leads to less need to replace.

Thanks for the heads-up. I think I'm going to have to start taking the batteries out of everything. It would not be good for this to happen to my RF...
 
#46
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

This has happened to me and I have a thread here somewhere describing my experience.

The short story is this; Kestrels do indeed collect data when it is “off”. What you need to do are two things. One reduce the rate of data collection to the longest time point, that will reduce your battery drain – the default rate is way too high. Two, you need to use lithium batteries for Kestrels, they will last a lot longer and reduce you chance for the type of damage you saw.

It is not the fault of the batteries. The fault lies with 1) the owners not reading the instructions carefully and 2) Kestrel for not carefully highlighting this problem with data collection and its effect on battery drain.

Of the two, I think it is mostly Kestrel’s fault since they should know via testing their products that this type of problem is going to happen the way the unit is set up and it is unusual enough that they need to warn users on the first page with BOLD RED LETTERS. This happens way too frequently.
 
#47
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

It seems like there are two issue:

1. recording data when the screen is off
2. battery corrosion

I can't see how they are really related (though I am not an Electrical Engineer). However if long term constant drain always causes corrosion, then all my smoke detectors for instance would have corrosion. I just don't see how the long term data recording makes corroding batteries Kestrel's fault, logically or theoretically. It seems to me much more likely to be the battery manufacturers fault - since that is the component that is leaking.
 
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#48
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Dude, seriously and not to be rude but not all long term electrical drainage are the same – and why would you even think they would be?

A mild drain like a watch of course would not be a problem. Smoke detectors are designed to work long term and so you can imagine that they make sure the drain is mild so the batteries would last. BTW, if you leave the batteries in your smoke detector long enough, they will corrode and drain.

Obviously the drain with the Krestrel is not a mild drain or it would not drain the batteries and result in corrosion, and the real prove is reducing the rate of data collection reduce the drain and the battery corrosion problem. People who use Krestrel knows about this, it’s a well known fact.

BTW, ALL batteries when they are drained regardless of how you drain them will result in a leak in the battery.
 
#49
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HeroFish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It seems like there are two issue:

1. recording data when the screen is off
2. battery corrosion

I can't see how they are really related (though I am not an Electrical Engineer). However if long term constant drain always causes corrosion, then all my smoke detectors for instance would have corrosion. I just don't see how the long term data recording makes corroding batteries Kestrel's fault, logically or theoretically. It seems to me much more likely to be the battery manufacturers fault - since that is the component that is leaking. </div></div>

They can be related. The discharge condition and rate changes the (alkaline) battery chemistry to release gas from the electrolyte that the mass-produced disposable case can't handle. Depleted alkaline batteries from continuous significant discharge are prone to this. Once the case is compromised, the outside air supplies the CO2 component to make that white crap that will oxidize or corrode copper and PCB connections.

Smoke detectors have a low averaged pulsed current draw rate and more often use batteries with a higher mW/hr capacity (~2x with a 9V) or cells vs. working voltage. Importantly; smoke detectors also warn the occupants of a low battery with the annoying chirp well before full battery discharge/depletion. As far as fault; designs can implement a load-switch or if the quiescent current draw is low enough in an inactive state; go to permanent sleep to prevent full discharge of the cell(s). It takes 200uA over 6months to deplete a lower banner capacity 3V/2AA cells. That is very substantial “off” current so I am not sure what the kestrel is doing. 100mA for 100mS once per hour (large for a sensor sample) over 6mo at working voltage is only a small AA capacity hit.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jerseymike</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Just looked at my piggy back battery pack for my shot timer.

32333265-AE3E-40B2-AC36-D8B1E1EC27E1-6966-000001219A97A9B2.jpg


Awesome!! </div></div>

Don't mix battery brands, type (chemistry), and age/condition. The ESR (basically the series resistance in battery model) and capacity of different batteries can vary. Even in series configuration, one battery can end up taking more of a hit to maintain voltage and supply current, even if a small current. The lower series resistance cell (usually “higher” quality), ends up being more discharged over prolonged periods. This is more of an issue with parallel cells but can be an issue both ways.

Common with many things, storage in elevated temperatures will add to the potential issue. Using lithium chemistry AA photo cells is a good recommendation. Using Li rechargeable AA cells wouldn’t be recommended as it appears the discharge of the Kestrel would compromise their capacity over time from discharge if left in.
 
#50
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

@Boomholzer Thanks!

My concern with the leakage is in using rechargeable NiMH cells. The reading I have done on leaking seems to point to the cases of disposable batteries being one of the main culprits. A suggestion was to use rechargeables as the case was designed for recharge/discharge vs. disposables. What are you thoughts on using NiMH vs Lithiums? I guess the chemistry is also different in the lithium rechargables also as its Lithium Ion. The NiMH also don't seem to develop a memory and so slow discharge hopefully won't affect battery life as much. What is your understanding of using NiMH batteries and the likelihood of leakage vs the Alkeline or Lithium disposables?
 
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