Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

#51
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HeroFish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">@Boomholzer Thanks!

My concern with the leakage is in using rechargeable NiMH cells. The reading I have done on leaking seems to point to the cases of disposable batteries being one of the main culprits. A suggestion was to use rechargeables as the case was designed for recharge/discharge vs. disposables. What are you thoughts on using NiMH vs Lithiums? I guess the chemistry is also different in the lithium rechargables also as its Lithium Ion. The NiMH also don't seem to develop a memory and so slow discharge hopefully won't affect battery life as much. What is your understanding of using NiMH batteries and the likelihood of leakage vs the Alkeline or Lithium disposables? </div></div>

NiMH rechargeable AA cells defined the memory effect for the user and designer. It defined the need for a charge controller to discharge before charge…..Some did, some don’t. NiMH cell capacity never beat Alkaline or in self discharge rate. NiMH ESR is higher, mAhr capacity lower, and working AA cell voltage is also less (1.35V).
It’s an outdated chemistry vs. Li for small current and large current rechargeable cells.

There is a difference in cell memory vs. damage or capacity compromise with unreasonable discharge or charge. NiMH is a sucky battery, without a device that knows the battery with internal charge capability, its a waste for the end user with any rechargeable cell.
 
#52
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

not to bring back dead threads, but just got back a response from Kestrel where I asked them directly the question "Could the Kestrel design be the cause of battery leakage?"


Here is their response, and it does make logical sense, unless 99.5% of people are removing their batteries (which I would guess they don't).:



I spoke with one of our lead engineers. The number of batteries we see returned from leaking batteries is very small, less than 0.5%. This indicates no correlation between our design and the leaking batteries.

To prevent alkaline batteries from leaking, we recommend you

1.do not mix different types of batteries
2. install both batteries from the same package (if possible)
3. keep the batteries away from sources of heat for extended periods of time
4. replace batteries in Kestrel once they are dead.
5. Do not leave batteries in the unit if you do not plan to use it for more than a few months.
6. Use a quality, well known brand


Battery brand does have a lot to do with quality.

Thank you,

Rachel Hader
Technical Support Customer Service
Nielsen Kellerman
610-447-1555 ext 112
610-447-1577
[email protected]
www.nkhome.com

Next I will pass along Boomholzer's comments to see what they say.
 
#53
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

You might have a set of knockoff batteries? They do exist, and obviously if you are going to knock something off you go for the higher quality stuff. I know procells are faked and leak.
 
#54
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

I agree, most people will not remove their batteries. How many appliance do you remove the batteries if you don’t use it for a few months especially if every time you do, you have to recalibrate? That is correct, 99.5% of them will not.

The real unfortunate truth is that even if you remove your batteries if you are not using it for a few months, you are still going to have problems if you do not reduce the rate of data acquisition and change over to lithium batteries. I shoot pretty much every week and look at that battery meter every time I use the thing and still had a problem when it was showing something like 40% power. Now, when I switched over to lithium batteries and the reduce rate of data acquisition, my battery meter is still showing 100% charge after 5 months with no problem.

I hate to be negative, but they are really not giving you good advice and that is the honest truth.
 
#56
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HeroFish</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just wish there was a good rechargeable solution. I use AA batteries for so many things it would be nice to have the LI functionality in a rechargeable - however it doesn't seem like that available right now. </div></div>.

www.batteryjunction.com if I understand what it is you're looking for.
 
#57
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

If you are wanting to run Lithium rechargables in your Kestrel, it would be highly adviseable to check with Kestrel first, as lithiums generally run at a higher voltage. You run the risk of frying your meter if the meter can't handle this higher voltage.

You can get AA sized batteries in a rechargable lithium type here - http://www.lighthound.com/Li-Ion-Protected-Batteries_c_24.html

You would also be well advised to stick with a protected type battery such as the AW brand. Note you will also need a charger built specifically to charge lithium batteries - the Pila is probably the best and safest out there at the moment.
http://www.lighthound.com/Pila-IBC-Charg...ger_p_3680.html

A safer bet might be to look at these -
http://www.thomasdistributing.com/-Maha-...rge_p_2252.html
 
#58
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

I just got one of these about a week and a half ago. So does the issue seem to be directly related to Duracell batteries? The unit came with Rayovac's which I always considered to be a lower quality battery then Duracell's. For the sake of warranty maybe I'll just keep replacing them with Rayovac's so there can be no question about it being the batteries fault. Especially if those are the one's Kestrel is spec'ing.
 
#60
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, October 05, 2012 2:27 PM
To: Rachel Hader
Subject: battery question

Rachel,

Can rechargeable lithium-ion batteries be used in Kestrel's? My understanding is that most of these AA batteries are rated at 3.6V rather than 1.2V. I know that you supply non rechargeable lithium AA batteries in the Military version of the Kestrel, but not sure about the rechargables.

Answer:
I just spoke with my lead engineer and after looking in to several components of the unit, it is not recommended to go above 3 volts.

Thank you,
Rachel Hader
Technical Support Customer Service
 
#61
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

If anyone has any additional questions on batteries in Kestrel's, I would suggest taking time to look through CandlePowerForums. They are very very into batteries. There are lots of articles, torture tests ect. My take away was that if your running a high quality NiMH AA (Like Eneloop), you shouldn't need to worry, even leaving the battery in the device until it was totally discharged. This is because to cause corrosion or venting of the NiMH battery it needs to go into stage 3 discharge (reverse polarity). According to those folks, 2 batteries in serial won't discharge enough to get to a Stage 3 discharge. See the below post on a test if NiMH rechargeable post # 51.

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?276213-Interesting-but-not-recommended/page2

Chemistry of the NiMH eneloop - no liquid inside, so no "leak" - however venting and corrosion are not the same a leaking...
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?180015-NO-Dissasemble-Enloop-gizzard-pics

Nice thread comparing LI vs NiMH:
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?227557-Lithium-batteries-versus-NiMH
 
#62
gpowers said:
Last month I replaced the batteries for my Kestrel 4500NV. I try to not leave them in when it is not being used, but this time I left them in. I got it out yesterday and the batteries had leaked and pretty much ruined my Kestrel. It will turn on but it freezes up, the buttons are not as responsive, and the back light does not work. The batteries were Duracell Procell and were dated 3-2016. I talked to both companies this morning, got the runaround from Duracell and got the worst case from Kestrel. My unit is not repairable due to their manufacturing process. My only option is to send mine in and pay a reduced price for a new one. I fully accept what has happened with the batteries as my fault, but still not happy that I now have a $700 paperweight that is less than nine months old. This post is just a reminder to remove your batteries after you use your meter.
Click to expand...

I have had this problem with Duracell batteries many times, and as a result I refuse to use Duracell any longer.
In addition, I have not experienced this problem with any other brand of batteries.

The worst part is that there is no consistency on how long Duracell batteries will last without leaking, so even a rigid maintenance routine of battery replacement will not stop the leakage problem. Must be a marketing ploy to induce you to replace batteries early and boost sales.
 
#67
I can’t impart any electrical engineering knowledge about how or why batteries drain. I can say, anecdotally, that if I’ve ever had a problem with batteries they have always been Duracell. Enough times that I won’t buy them anymore.

Hold them to their warranty and please report back what the outcome is.
 
#72
footsteps said:
I read slow.
Click to expand...

default_bellylaf.gif
 
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#73
Duracell are CRAP batteries. It's also better to run lithium in expensive devices as they are less prone to leaking and destroying everything. Really sorry to hear about your device, maybe consider taking them to small claims court. It's really easy to file a small claims case and you may have a good shot at winning.
 
#74
Necro Thread but still good information that's changed over the years. I've noticed of the last few years I've had way more Duracell and Rayovac batteries leak, I used to get Rayovac batteries every year on black friday as Home Depot/Lowes would have super cheap specials, and they lasted 95% as long as duracell and never leaked. I stopped doing it about 4 years ago because the last batch I bought they leaked in the packages over the year, both AA and AAA. If you look online you'll see tons of other people reporting the same. Iv'e seen the same with Duracell as of late because that's what I switched to and they are just as bad. No doubt it's just battery companies cheapening their products to save $ like just about every other industry these days.

For any electronic device I own if I care about it, it gets energizer lithium batteries, or it gets rechargeable eneloop cells. Neither leak.

Another good tip while we're on batteries is NEVER buy any batteries from Amazon/Ebay etc. They are rampant with counterfeit, out of date batteries etc. This is especially true for coin cell type batteries. Buy from a real battery store like Battery Junction etc. and spend the little extra $ for peace of mind.
 
#75
Since this thread is active again I would like to really know if Kestrels are still metering while turned off?

I am on the edge of buying one. Also, does the battery on those (I use Li only also) really last years? And can someone who frequently uses one answer this?
What I've read it lasts from 6 months to 2 years? And with Li over 2?

-Has anyone had it last for 3, 4, 5 years?

I know the Kestrel makes very good products and is clearly a stand up company but why is their device gathering data and using power while set off?
 
#76
Near miss said:
I know the Kestrel makes very good products and is clearly a stand up company but why is their device gathering data and using power while set off?
Click to expand...
My guess is, so that the batteries will die and then leak and then trash the system so that you have to spend another 400+ bucks to by another device that you "NEED" to continue your shooting.

And make it unrepairable. And make it unwarrantable. And then offer you $125.00 towards a new $600.00 unit. With even more bells and whistles and deely-bobs.

I'm just saying....
 
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#77
Near miss said:
Since this thread is active again I would like to really know if Kestrels are still metering while turned off?

I am on the edge of buying one. Also, does the battery on those (I use Li only also) really last years? And can someone who frequently uses one answer this?
What I've read it lasts from 6 months to 2 years? And with Li over 2?

-Has anyone had it last for 3, 4, 5 years?

I know the Kestrel makes very good products and is clearly a stand up company but why is their device gathering data and using power while set off?
Click to expand...
I have a 4500Nv with the Horus software, Yep outdated, but it is still going. The weather data gathering is adjustable in the settings, I set it to 2 hr intervals, the batteries last a year or so. I do change batteries when the display is in the 40% range. Too expensive to run out of battery when using, or dead when stored. Is it ideal? no...Effective, yes.
 
#78
I checked the Kestrel thread here in this very same forum :)
They said:
Sept 22, 2018
"Take a look at Kestrel Memory Options, Auto Store On and store rate as you need. Then link to the Kestrel Link App (not ballistics the other one) and take a look at Readings, Stats and Log. If that is the info you are looking for, Stats has an export feature you can use to send the table. Remember to turn Auto Store off when not in use or your battery will take the hit."

So this is fixed now via software update. Although it took several years and multiple units lost to acid they did eventually edit one menu to have option more.

But nevertheless, I consider this product to be on my shopping list now.
 
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#79
oldolds442 said:
Re: Ruined Kestrel by bad batteries

Use Energizer Ultimate Lithium.. they have like a 1200 year shelf life, and THEY WON'T LEAK. i cant tell you how many mini mags, and d cell mag lites i have thrown out that leaked, and welded themselves into the tubes. cant even find out who made the damn batteries without a bunch of effort. All my flashlights have lithiums in there now, mostly rechargables.... never had a leak
Click to expand...
This. There's a reason they are reccomended for use in high end thermal etc
 
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#80
Fred @ Bison Tactical said:
Here is their response, and it does make logical sense, unless 99.5% of people are removing their batteries (which I would guess they don't).:



I spoke with one of our lead engineers. The number of batteries we see returned from leaking batteries is very small, less than 0.5%. This indicates no correlation between our design and the leaking batteries.
Click to expand...

I thought to post this too since I find it odd as it gives mixed information to the information Kestrel gave earlier.
I was reading the sales pitch on 5700.

kestrelmeters.com

Kestrel 5000 vs 4000 Series Detailed Differences

Hand-held wind and weather trackers from Kestrel Meters. Shop online from the entire line of Kestrel weather instruments. Free, Same-Day Shipping.
kestrelmeters.com kestrelmeters.com

Here is one point they made:
"Battery door is in the back, sealed away from the motherboard, should your battery leak as was common with all the 4000 series."

-So to the customers who had acid Kestrels they say it is a rare occasion.
-And to the buyers thinking of picking 5700 or 4500 they say it was common (already in the 4000 series)

It does not add up. Someone could even say a few chosen words..

This shows the engineering behind the product.
-Problem with software draining battery until it leaks
->Instead of updating the software, update the battery casing to improved one and make it a selling point

Yes I am smiling at this outcome.
 
Last edited:
#81
This happened to me as well. Duracell wrote me a check for $450 bucks. Kestrel essentially said to piss off. I took the money and bought a competitors weather meter. I’ll never own a kestrel product again with how shitty their warranty is. Right or wrong the kestrel is a poor design and should not allow the kestrel to continue to draw power when the batteries get dangerously low. My suggestion is to take your money elsewhere to a company that supports its customers better. For a $500+ electronic with a known flaw its pretty crazy how bad their service is. Especially in an industry where a $2000 scope will be replaced no questions asked.

I’m sure some will disagree but that’s my stance after the drama I went through.
 
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#82
generalzip said:
This happened to me as well. Duracell wrote me a check for $450 bucks. Kestrel essentially said to piss off. I took the money and bought a competitors weather meter. I’ll never own a kestrel product again with how shitty their warranty is. Right or wrong the kestrel is a poor design and should not allow the kestrel to continue to draw power when the batteries get dangerously low. My suggestion is to take your money elsewhere to a company that supports its customers better. For a $500+ electronic with a known flaw its pretty crazy how bad their service is. Especially in an industry where a $2000 scope will be replaced no questions asked.

I’m sure some will disagree but that’s my stance after the drama I went through.
Click to expand...
I feel you.
Buying an expensive device that is protected from the enviroment with IP-ratings and only so that the battey acids that it causes to leak destroy it from inside. (Small amount of irony there..)
Then contacting them and be let down by them with full denial about the issues with the device..

Which product did you buy then?
 
#86
tonyXcom said:
Lithium :)

kestrelmeters.com

Protect Your Kestrel Meter with Lithium Batteries

Hand-held wind and weather trackers from Kestrel Meters. Shop online from the entire line of Kestrel weather instruments. Free, Same-Day Shipping.
kestrelmeters.com kestrelmeters.com
Click to expand...

Exactly. And what type of batteries are Procell? It amazes me on how many threads pop up that can be answered by simply reading the instructions. And if by some reason the instructions do not answer your question, call the company that manufactured the item. They have people who love to answer your questions. Free of charge.
Bang
 
#87
Not to mention that the 4500 manual explicitly documents how to turn off the weather capture, just like the 5500. Folks who run the battery flat because they can't be bothered to actually read the docs and learn the device have zero sympathy from me! I saw that and disabled it as a part of my initial setup . . learning a new device means that you shoukd know what *every* menu and choice does . . .

RTFM!!!!
 
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#88
gpowers said:
Last month I replaced the batteries for my Kestrel 4500NV. I try to not leave them in when it is not being used, but this time I left them in. I got it out yesterday and the batteries had leaked and pretty much ruined my Kestrel. It will turn on but it freezes up, the buttons are not as responsive, and the back light does not work. The batteries were Duracell Procell and were dated 3-2016. I talked to both companies this morning, got the runaround from Duracell and got the worst case from Kestrel. My unit is not repairable due to their manufacturing process. My only option is to send mine in and pay a reduced price for a new one. I fully accept what has happened with the batteries as my fault, but still not happy that I now have a $700 paperweight that is less than nine months old. This post is just a reminder to remove your batteries after you use your meter.
Click to expand...

That would piss me off, Kestrel needs a better solution for this. I’d be knocking on their door pretty hard if I were you.
 
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