I'm looking to buy an S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot for 3-gunning. SWFA seem to list 4 or 5 different versions, some with a 20mm objective and others with 24mm objective. S&B website is also not terribly clear when it comes to specs of the different types. What version is the most popular for 3 gunning?
Rifle Scopes S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot
- Thread starter sititunga
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Re: S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot
Those w/ the 24mm objective are longer and have the reticle in 2nd focal plane. #7 and #2 flash dot reticles only if i'm not mistaken.
The 20mm objective has the CQB reticle in the First focal plane.
More readin':
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/short-dot/
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5872
Your call.
Those w/ the 24mm objective are longer and have the reticle in 2nd focal plane. #7 and #2 flash dot reticles only if i'm not mistaken.
The 20mm objective has the CQB reticle in the First focal plane.
More readin':
http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-tips/short-dot/
http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=5872
Your call.
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Re: S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to one of links one of the 24mm versions comes with a mildot reticule maybe that's the one to go for. </div></div>
No....only the new 1-8x will have a mildot reticle. The current 1.1-4x24mm's are 2nd focal plane. S&B has not offered a Short Dot in any form with both a CQB (range finding) reticle in the 2nd focal plane.....as this would cause issues with ranging.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to one of links one of the 24mm versions comes with a mildot reticule maybe that's the one to go for. </div></div>
No....only the new 1-8x will have a mildot reticle. The current 1.1-4x24mm's are 2nd focal plane. S&B has not offered a Short Dot in any form with both a CQB (range finding) reticle in the 2nd focal plane.....as this would cause issues with ranging.
Re: S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot
I just purchased a used 1.1-4 CQB ( cqb mil ret) off the hide. It is a first focal plane. I think the second focal plane would be better for 3-gun, because on 1.1 the reticle is almost gone and the best way to use it is with the ill. on. I haven't used it in any matches yet. My first one this year is the Blue Ridge 3 gun. However I shot it a little recently and was hitting golf balls at 100 yds prone on 4x. Hope this may help you.
I just purchased a used 1.1-4 CQB ( cqb mil ret) off the hide. It is a first focal plane. I think the second focal plane would be better for 3-gun, because on 1.1 the reticle is almost gone and the best way to use it is with the ill. on. I haven't used it in any matches yet. My first one this year is the Blue Ridge 3 gun. However I shot it a little recently and was hitting golf balls at 100 yds prone on 4x. Hope this may help you.
Re: S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toygunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just purchased a used 1.1-4 CQB ( cqb mil ret) off the hide. It is a first focal plane. I think the second focal plane would be better for 3-gun, because on 1.1 the reticle is almost gone and the best way to use it is with the ill. on. I haven't used it in any matches yet. My first one this year is the Blue Ridge 3 gun. However I shot it a little recently and was hitting golf balls at 100 yds prone on 4x. Hope this may help you. </div></div>
But at 1.1 power aren't you using the red dot and not relying on the reticule? So the one you've bought is a Gen 1 scope?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: toygunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just purchased a used 1.1-4 CQB ( cqb mil ret) off the hide. It is a first focal plane. I think the second focal plane would be better for 3-gun, because on 1.1 the reticle is almost gone and the best way to use it is with the ill. on. I haven't used it in any matches yet. My first one this year is the Blue Ridge 3 gun. However I shot it a little recently and was hitting golf balls at 100 yds prone on 4x. Hope this may help you. </div></div>
But at 1.1 power aren't you using the red dot and not relying on the reticule? So the one you've bought is a Gen 1 scope?
Re: S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot
I have the 1.1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE. In that magnification range I prefer the SFP and the smaller dot at distance. It is a great scope. Here is a link to a review.
www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/cqb-short-dot-scopes-in-the-kill-zone/
Below is the description from the Schmidt Bender website.
<span style="font-weight: bold">1.1-4 x 24 Zenith Short Dot LE </span>
Based upon our Zenith 1.1–4 x 24 Flash Dot hunting scope, this model evolved from requests for a smaller illuminated dot. Unlike our other Short Dot scopes, the reticle is located in the second focal plane. At 1.1 power it is more substantial, preferred for quick response when illumination is not required. At 4 power, the illuminated Flash Dot covers only 1.57" at 100 yards (compared to 5.9" for a reticle in the first focal plane). This allows more precise shot placement at longer ranges.
Locking illumination and elevation turrets are standard, calibrated for the M855, 75 gr. TAP or M118LR. Also included is our unique Posicon control, providing a graphic representation of where the reticle lies within its adjustment range. This makes for easier mounting and sighting in. Our Flash Dot illumination system is standard. Offered with reticles FD2 or FD7.
I have the 1.1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE. In that magnification range I prefer the SFP and the smaller dot at distance. It is a great scope. Here is a link to a review.
www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/cqb-short-dot-scopes-in-the-kill-zone/
Below is the description from the Schmidt Bender website.
<span style="font-weight: bold">1.1-4 x 24 Zenith Short Dot LE </span>
Based upon our Zenith 1.1–4 x 24 Flash Dot hunting scope, this model evolved from requests for a smaller illuminated dot. Unlike our other Short Dot scopes, the reticle is located in the second focal plane. At 1.1 power it is more substantial, preferred for quick response when illumination is not required. At 4 power, the illuminated Flash Dot covers only 1.57" at 100 yards (compared to 5.9" for a reticle in the first focal plane). This allows more precise shot placement at longer ranges.
Locking illumination and elevation turrets are standard, calibrated for the M855, 75 gr. TAP or M118LR. Also included is our unique Posicon control, providing a graphic representation of where the reticle lies within its adjustment range. This makes for easier mounting and sighting in. Our Flash Dot illumination system is standard. Offered with reticles FD2 or FD7.
Re: S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot
I have a S&B 1.1-4x20 Short Dot with the Flash Dot mil reticle. The reticle is in the FFP. The reticle is just usable at 1.1 power but if I am on 1.1 I am usually using the dot for close shooting. I have used it to ring steel to 400 yards without a problem both using holds and dialing. It's been the best optic I have had on the rifle which have included and Aimpoint, EOTech, Millet 1-4, and NF 1-4.
Some pics of reticle at 1.1x. Be advised I suck at taking through the scope pics so don't hold that against the scope
at 4x
And a pic of the scope on the rifle. I have since added an MGM Switchview and it works great.
I have a S&B 1.1-4x20 Short Dot with the Flash Dot mil reticle. The reticle is in the FFP. The reticle is just usable at 1.1 power but if I am on 1.1 I am usually using the dot for close shooting. I have used it to ring steel to 400 yards without a problem both using holds and dialing. It's been the best optic I have had on the rifle which have included and Aimpoint, EOTech, Millet 1-4, and NF 1-4.
Some pics of reticle at 1.1x. Be advised I suck at taking through the scope pics so don't hold that against the scope
at 4x
And a pic of the scope on the rifle. I have since added an MGM Switchview and it works great.
Re: S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D Baker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the 1.1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE. In that magnification range I prefer the SFP and the smaller dot at distance. It is a great scope. Here is a link to a review.
www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/cqb-short-dot-scopes-in-the-kill-zone/
Below is the description from the Schmidt Bender website.
<span style="font-weight: bold">1.1-4 x 24 Zenith Short Dot LE </span>
Based upon our Zenith 1.1–4 x 24 Flash Dot hunting scope, this model evolved from requests for a smaller illuminated dot. Unlike our other Short Dot scopes, the reticle is located in the second focal plane. At 1.1 power it is more substantial, preferred for quick response when illumination is not required. At 4 power, the illuminated Flash Dot covers only 1.57" at 100 yards (compared to 5.9" for a reticle in the first focal plane). This allows more precise shot placement at longer ranges.
Locking illumination and elevation turrets are standard, calibrated for the M855, 75 gr. TAP or M118LR. Also included is our unique Posicon control, providing a graphic representation of where the reticle lies within its adjustment range. This makes for easier mounting and sighting in. Our Flash Dot illumination system is standard. Offered with reticles FD2 or FD7.
</div></div>
What reticle have you got on yours?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: D Baker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the 1.1-4x24 Zenith Short Dot LE. In that magnification range I prefer the SFP and the smaller dot at distance. It is a great scope. Here is a link to a review.
www.tactical-life.com/online/exclusives/cqb-short-dot-scopes-in-the-kill-zone/
Below is the description from the Schmidt Bender website.
<span style="font-weight: bold">1.1-4 x 24 Zenith Short Dot LE </span>
Based upon our Zenith 1.1–4 x 24 Flash Dot hunting scope, this model evolved from requests for a smaller illuminated dot. Unlike our other Short Dot scopes, the reticle is located in the second focal plane. At 1.1 power it is more substantial, preferred for quick response when illumination is not required. At 4 power, the illuminated Flash Dot covers only 1.57" at 100 yards (compared to 5.9" for a reticle in the first focal plane). This allows more precise shot placement at longer ranges.
Locking illumination and elevation turrets are standard, calibrated for the M855, 75 gr. TAP or M118LR. Also included is our unique Posicon control, providing a graphic representation of where the reticle lies within its adjustment range. This makes for easier mounting and sighting in. Our Flash Dot illumination system is standard. Offered with reticles FD2 or FD7.
</div></div>
What reticle have you got on yours?
Re: S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a S&B 1.1-4x20 Short Dot with the Flash Dot mil reticle. The reticle is in the FFP. The reticle is just usable at 1.1 power but if I am on 1.1 I am usually using the dot for close shooting. I have used it to ring steel to 400 yards without a problem both using holds and dialing. It's been the best optic I have had on the rifle which have included and Aimpoint, EOTech, Millet 1-4, and NF 1-4.
Some pics of reticle at 1.1x. Be advised I suck at taking through the scope pics so don't hold that against the scope
at 4x
And a pic of the scope on the rifle. I have since added an MGM Switchview and it works great.
</div></div>
Are those half moa hashes or full moa? Also does your's have the locking turrets?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a S&B 1.1-4x20 Short Dot with the Flash Dot mil reticle. The reticle is in the FFP. The reticle is just usable at 1.1 power but if I am on 1.1 I am usually using the dot for close shooting. I have used it to ring steel to 400 yards without a problem both using holds and dialing. It's been the best optic I have had on the rifle which have included and Aimpoint, EOTech, Millet 1-4, and NF 1-4.
Some pics of reticle at 1.1x. Be advised I suck at taking through the scope pics so don't hold that against the scope
at 4x
And a pic of the scope on the rifle. I have since added an MGM Switchview and it works great.
Are those half moa hashes or full moa? Also does your's have the locking turrets?
Re: S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot
FFP and SFP are really a preference issue. I am running a FFP short dot and I love it. For me on the close stuff having less in my view is faster. I ran drills with both types and found that on the close stuff I would try to center up the crosshairs instead of seeing the dot at the spot I wanted to hit. Hard to explain but I would focus on the crosshairs. What you want to do is focus on the spot you want to hit and your brain will bring the dot to it. Make sense? The only pain is where you have sections of long and the short range targets or vice versa and then having to turn on/off the dot. But in reality it takes maybe 2 seconds. For me I don't place high enough where that is really a concern.
I think that the 1x4 is plenty of scope for most 3gun matches, however I will be selling mine and getting the 1x8 hopefully in April. Most of the time you don't need anything more than 4 but some lighting conditions and target size situations it can be advantagous.
FFP and SFP are really a preference issue. I am running a FFP short dot and I love it. For me on the close stuff having less in my view is faster. I ran drills with both types and found that on the close stuff I would try to center up the crosshairs instead of seeing the dot at the spot I wanted to hit. Hard to explain but I would focus on the crosshairs. What you want to do is focus on the spot you want to hit and your brain will bring the dot to it. Make sense? The only pain is where you have sections of long and the short range targets or vice versa and then having to turn on/off the dot. But in reality it takes maybe 2 seconds. For me I don't place high enough where that is really a concern.
I think that the 1x4 is plenty of scope for most 3gun matches, however I will be selling mine and getting the 1x8 hopefully in April. Most of the time you don't need anything more than 4 but some lighting conditions and target size situations it can be advantagous.
Re: S&B 1.1-4 Short Dot
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to one of links one of the 24mm versions comes with a mildot reticule maybe that's the one to go for. </div></div>
No....only the new 1-8x will have a mildot reticle. The current 1.1-4x24mm's are 2nd focal plane. S&B has not offered a Short Dot in any form with both a CQB (range finding) reticle in the 2nd focal plane.....as this would cause issues with ranging. </div></div>
Just spoke to S&B and they now offer a 1.1-4x24 (SFP) with a P3 mildot reticle.
Interestingly the person I spoke to said that their 1-8 Short Dot was designed with the 308 AR10 in mind rather than the M16/AR15.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Pointblank4445</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sititunga1</div><div class="ubbcode-body">According to one of links one of the 24mm versions comes with a mildot reticule maybe that's the one to go for. </div></div>
No....only the new 1-8x will have a mildot reticle. The current 1.1-4x24mm's are 2nd focal plane. S&B has not offered a Short Dot in any form with both a CQB (range finding) reticle in the 2nd focal plane.....as this would cause issues with ranging. </div></div>
Just spoke to S&B and they now offer a 1.1-4x24 (SFP) with a P3 mildot reticle.
Interestingly the person I spoke to said that their 1-8 Short Dot was designed with the 308 AR10 in mind rather than the M16/AR15.
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