Rifle Scopes S&B 3-20x50 Ultra Short or March 3-24x52?

[usmc45]

Your expertise please………………

So I have narrowed it down to these two scopes (S&B 3-20x50 Ultra Short or March 3-24x52) as they both have a low end of 3x that I am after for hunting as well as a nice upper end for long range hunting and target shoot. The scope will see double duty for target shooting and hunting of all shorts (stand, packing in, exc…). Having never used either or even looked through either I must defer to those of you who have. The only real hesitation I have is what I have read about the parallax adjustment on the March. Other than that I am torn between the two. All opinions are welcome and helpful. Thanks guys.

Happy shooting.

 

[Jerdie16]

I don't have experience with either, and am pretty much in your current situation. I want to use the scope on either .260 or 6.5 creedmoor for hunting and precision hole punching.

Personally am leaning towards the March but like you I'm hesitant to go for it. The march is significantly lighter and cheaper, the only negatives i see are the reticle choices (Id probably go with the FML-1) and the parallax. Another thing that's negative is ordering through bullets.com (who doesn't accept returns), but their price makes up for it compared to optics planet or other march dealers I've found.

I've contacted optics planet and you can return the march if you don't mount it or mar it up which is one way to go if you don't mind buying to possibly return but if you decide to keep it youll pay more for it vs bullets.com.

The Schmidt and Bender is probably better in every way except cost and weight. The value proposition is tough here. I have asked myself "Are you really going to get the most out of the marginally better Schmidt?" but I keep coming back to it as an option, knowing I will pay big for that small margin. I like the MSR reticle, but i know its not for everyone they have a new one coming out that you make like. The warranty on both is about equal, but I feel Schmidt is more established in the US and if I am to have a problem, they will take care of me.

Although unpopular, ive considered a leupold mark 6 3-18X44, but you may think that's laughable with the history on that optic.

Resources to Consider ( i know they arent exactly the models we are considering) :
http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/...ptical-performance-field-test-results-part-2/
http://opticsthoughts.com/?page_id=145

 

[lennyo3034]

Wjm or someone like that has done extensive reviews of both of these. It may be worthwhile to dig those threads up on scout.

 

[Gledeasy]

Is the S&B a 34mm tube or 30mm? That's significant IMO if you're considering it for hunting. I bought the NF ATACR F1 4-16x42 thinking I found my huckleberry. It was my first 34mm tubed scope. Just didn't what I would call "fit" my hunting rifle.

I have a March 3-24x42. The footprint is ideal to use for a hunting rifle. If I were purchasing the March I'd get the 52mm objective to help light at high power. Yes the parallax is something to adjust to, but not a total deal breaker. Just like anything else the more you use the more you become acquaintance with.

I can't comment on the S&B, but if it's 34mm tubed I would definitely take that in consideration with whatever rifle you're using.

34mm tubed NF


30mm tubed March

 

[usmc45]

Thanks for the thoughts on tube dia. That is a good point. My rifle is a bit more on the tac side with a manners T2 so it may or may not be an issue.

I have tracked down some of those reviews and one guy on the net even had a pretty good spreadsheet he had made with them both listed. Weight and price really are not that big of a concern for me. I guess I am just concerned about the parallax on the March vs the S&B along with some slight concern of the overall ruggedness of the March since it will go hunting as well.

 

[79steeler]

I was recently debating the same thing and even had the 3.-15M Tangent Theta in the mix as well. It's going on a Gap Extreme Hunter in 6.5 Saum. I wanted a light weight quality scope in the 3-20 range. I recently purchase a March 3-24x52 that came available in the PX and got it for 2400 which I thought was a great price. So I went with it. I think either will do a great job. I'm going to be using it for hunting and long range steel. My friend has a buddy who has had every top shelf scope and he sold his S&B and went with the March because he liked it so well. I have an S&B 5-25pmII that I really like. I think the price made up my mind on this one. Good luck

 

[Jerdie16]

I was recently debating the same thing and even had the 3.-15M Tangent Theta in the mix as well. It's going on a Gap Extreme Hunter in 6.5 Saum. I wanted a light weight quality scope in the 3-20 range. I recently purchase a March 3-24x52 that came available in the PX and got it for 2400 which I thought was a great price. So I went with it. I think either will do a great job. I'm going to be using it for hunting and long range steel. My friend has a buddy who has had every top shelf scope and he sold his S&B and went with the March because he liked it so well. I have an S&B 5-25pmII that I really like. I think the price made up my mind on this one. Good luck

What do you think about the parallax? is it something that is a real issue or hype?

 

[mpk1996]

Well. If you don't care about weight or price. Get the S&B. The main benefit of the March is the weight and the price.

 

[Lowlight]

The S&B all the way...

Was using the 3-20x Ultra Short this weekend with my AX out to 1 Mile, it was perfect.

 

[CBDR]

The more I read, the more I learn that I am not alone who goes round and round on picking the right one. Have my eye on the TT, Mar & S&B. Received word today from AO that my 6.5 is just waiting on the EH Manners stock. Most likely going to go all in and go with S&B.

 

[usmc45]

The general has spoken. Thank you sir. I know many things are personal and subjective with scopes but I also know you have probably been behind more glass than the rest of us put together.

 

[Glassaholic]

Hey OP, I hear your dilemma and have been there. Frank recommends the Schmidt above but also did a fantastic review of the March 3-24x52 a couple years ago now, you can read/watch that over here (though not sure how long the old Scout info will last) - http://www.scout.com/military/snipers-hide/story/1481838-march-3-24x52mm-tactical-scope-review?s=541

I have also had the Schmidt 3-20 (it was not the ultra short though) and the Schmidt Ultra Short 5-20 along with the March 3-24x52. The March scopes are truly optical marvels of engineering, how they get such good quality out of an 8x erector design is surprising. My nickname for the March 3-24x52 is that it is the Poor Man's S&B Ultra Short 3-20. Here is a link to the review I did on these scopes - http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...t-low-light-tactical-scope-evaluation-part-ii

Since you mentioned that weight and price are not an issue, you basically just took away two of the main reasons why someone might choose one scope over another. As you've already mentioned you have a concern over the parallax and while the parallax on the March is more finicky than the Schmidt and Bender I highly doubt it is going to cost you a shot once you get used to it, that being said I will say that the Schmidts have had some of the best parallax control I've used. In regard to ruggedness that is always difficult to tell, they don't do drop tests or crash tests like they do with cars on scopes (though it would be nice) and while a 34mm tube scope might "appear" to be more rugged than a 30mm scope I don't think you can make a valid case for that. Frank has beat up his Vortex Razor AMG pretty bad and I think it is still running strong for him and that is a 30mm scope.

For you the choice is probably going to come down to reticle. The Schmidt reticles don't really excite me and neither does the FML-1, Schmidt is coming out with a brand new reticle that looks promising (the LRR-Mil) and the FML-1 has a floating dot that I like but I lean more towards the .2 mil hash reticles, though it is more about personal preference as I and many others have done just fine with .5 mil hash reticles for years. Glass wise the March is extremely impressive and actually controls CA better than the Schmidt but in most shooting situations both are going to perform flawlessly, I would say the Schmidt has the edge on resolution and forgiving eye box but the March isn't horrible. If you have never looked through a Schmidt I can say this, it truly is something to see, the image jumps out at you and the first impression is a gasp or a wow!, they are really that good. One other thing would be the turrets, both are low profile and I'd say the Schmidt has better feel than the March, the MTC takes some getting used to but with training should not be an issue.

Hopefully that gives you some more to chew on and helps you in your decision, but if money and weight are not an issue, I think the choice is clear, the Schmidt is the "better" scope.

 

[sjc929]

I have the March and love it. I don't find the parallax to be a problem on mine at all. It definitely isn't as forgiving as my razor gen 2, meaning the g2 doesn't care too much about going from 300 to 500 without adjusting the dial, whereas the March requires adjustment of the parallax knob. But I've never had a problem with having to fiddle back and forth with the March to get it set right. It's as easy as any other scope I've ever used to get focused, you just have to focus it more precisely than a scope with less of an extreme range of parallax adjustment when changing between different distance targets. Bullets.com was great to deal with too, unbeatable price and helpful people. I doubt you would be disappointed with either, I love my March and the Ultra Short is my dream scope aside from reticle choices, but that's just personal preferance. That being said, March doesn't have the greatest reticle choices either, but I have the new Christmas tree model (I think it's the FML-T1 if I remember correctly) and really like it.

 

[Lowlight]

The original 3-20x is nothing like the Ultra Short series.. the Ultra Short Series is a big improvement over the full size 3-20x and the turrets are awesome to work with.

I never see CA in a S&B, maybe if you strain to find it, you might, but to this day, S&B is still the gold standard when it comes to scopes. The value will by far outlast the competition on return on investment when it comes to keeping these scopes.

March are BenchRest and F Class scopes and they do well there, but as a tactical scope, the S&B leads then in all areas. The x52 was an improvement over the other models, but still ...

Reticle wise you have a lot more choices when it comes to the S&B, they have a bunch, enough to satisfy most users.

 

[Nik H]

Frank,

Being that you have a lot of inside information; have you got to see the new S&B LRR-MIL? Was wondering if you can comment on that

 

[Lowlight]

I saw the reticle at SHOT, and to be honest I was so busy, I don't remember a whole lot about it. If I remember right it was in the scope with the new turrets and we focused more on that than the reticle

There are schematics of it,




http://www.eurooptic.com/blog/post/2017/03/15/sneak-peek-schmidt-bender-lrr-mil-reticle

 

[jonthomps]

Just ordered an S&B 3-20 Ultra Short from Jason a few days ago. Had one, sold it, and regretted it ever since.

 

[79steeler]

I have not mounted it yet, my Extreme hunter won't be finished till August. So Paralax I'm not sure about. Like I said I went with March because a nice one became available at a decent price. Just from finger banging it seems like a nice scope. Turrets feel great, glass looks good, illumination is awesome, and it feels and looks quality. That being said I like my S&B alot as well. For the price I got it for if I don't like it I won't get hurt. Part of the fun of this sport is trying new and differant toys. lol

 

[Glassaholic]

If I remember right it was in the scope with the new turrets and we focused more on that than the reticle

I'd like to hear more about the new turrets, what can you tell?

 

[Lowlight]

The Multi Turn II turret

 

[Glassaholic]

I know the name of the new turrets, was curious if you had a chance to use them and what the real world experience is vs. what the technical information says:
INTELLIGENT ELEVATION ADJUSTMENT FOR TACTICAL USE
The original Multi-Turn elevation adjustment is offered in only a few models of riflescopes as a target style adjustment. The design has proven to be robust, with repeatable adjustments, very user-friendly, and has prompted demand from customers to have this type of elevation adjustment as an option available for other popular models. Schmidt & Bender’s engineering team designed the advanced Multi-Turn II turret adjustment to achieve a highly functional, repeatable, lockable, and intelligent elevation adjustment for tactical use. It is a highly specialized turret adjustment with additional features designed into it. The new Multi-Turn II serves as a rotational indicator, via a window atop the adjustment, clearly indicating rotation status in numerical values from 1 – 5. In addition to the visual indicator, the new design also provides a tactile indicator for each rotation of the turret.

SUB-ZERO STOP SETTING
The Multi-Turn II adjustment also has a sub-Zero Stop setting. In addition to this, it also incorporates a three-way multi-functional lever that allows the operator to determine how they want their clicks to “feel” and if they want to lock the turret. The lever is located on the barrel side of the elevation adjustment, and operates within three positional settings. With the lever pointing towards the barrel’s muzzle, the adjustment is in the “locked” position. With the lever rotated one position counter-clockwise, the adjustment is unlocked and allows for the More Tactile Click (MTC) feature. With the lever rotated to the final position, counter-clockwise, the adjustment is unlocked and bypasses the MTC feature. The new Multi-Turn II™ will be available for the 3-20x50 PM II™ Ultra Short and 3-27x56 PM II™ High Power models, with 393 centimeters (39.3 Mils) adjustment value. It will also be available for the 5-25x56 PM II™ and 5-45x56 PM II™ High Power models with 270 centimeters (27.0 Mils) adjustment value. Furthermore, the new design offers click values in 0.5 centimeter (0.050 Mil), allowing for finer zeroing and greater precision for long-range shooting.

 

[Mute]

I'd like to hear more about the new turrets, what can you tell?

Rather than a lengthy post, here's a vid of the Multi Turn II turret. Pretty damn awesome. I especially like being able to select whether or not the MTC function is active:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1Md5ytgX14

 

[Hairy Biker]

For what the OP wants, the March in 52mm is a great option. The FX line is more than a BR and F Class scope and the floating dot reticle is a fine piece of design.

 

[AndyMan87]

I guess you can listen to the guy with 9 posts or the guy who shoots nearly every day with every scope worth mentioning. You know you won't regret the s&b.

 

[Drew9299]

S&B would be my vote

 

[usmc45]

I guess you can listen to the guy with 9 posts or the guy who shoots nearly every day with every scope worth mentioning. You know you won't regret the s&b.

Made me laugh, and of course you are right. I was really hoping he would chime in and give his 0.02. I will go with the S&B and im sure it wont be my last.

 

[Covertnoob5]

I had the March 3-24x52 and I have the 5-20US. I know you're looking at the 3-20US. The S&B is much better all the way around.


Covert is as Covert does.

Plenty of good feedback on the scout site.

 

[usmc45]

Just realized its been a while since i started this thread and never finished it. So i went the 3-20x50 Ultra Short rout. Still have never touched a march so maybe im missing the next best thing since sliced bread but after getting behind the S&B i think im ok if i am. This scope is awesome. Its no single thing about it, it's the whole scope. Everything about it is so precise and refined and just works how you think it should and how you want it to. Its supper easy to get behind and the turrets feel great. Not to mention its build like a dam Abrams. It's my first MIL and my first FFP scope and after 10 min of shooting it i didnt even notice. I feel dump for not doing all of this years ago. Thanks again to everyone for your experience and expertise.

Happy Shooting