Rifle Scopes S&B 5-25 PMII Still a Good Choice?

[Money Waster]

I’m in the market for a scope with a 25X top end, and am having a hard time deciding what to get. I have two USO LR17s, which I like a lot, but I am desiring a little more magnification on the top end for paper punching and load development. I don’t compete in Precision rifle, but I do enjoy shooting steel at distance which, for me, is out to 800 yards.

I considered another USO, but I don’t believe that they’re the same company that they were years ago when I bought my LR17s, and I don’t want to sink big dollars into something that may have quality issues. I’ve looked at the NF ATACRs, but don’t care for the reticle choices, and frankly, NFs don’t blow up my skirt for some reason. Don’t know why. I don’t want a Vortex or Khales either. That leads me to S&B. For years they have been considered Tier 1 optics with amazing glass. I honestly don’t know how they compare with other offerings in that department as I’ve never gotten behind one, but the legend lives and I have to believe that there is some truth to it.

I’m considering a 5-25 PMII, but I’m not sure which specific model would suite my shooting preferences. I primary dial for elevation and hold for windage, so I don’t need a Horus or similar reticle. FFP is a must. I tend to not trade or sell items once I’ve bought them if they are functional and the quality is high, so this purchase would likely last me the rest of my shooting lifetime. You only live once and I’d like to have at least one high end optic before I’m pushing up daisies. Is this scope that purchase?

Money

 

[Townla28]

i'm curious to see the replies too. I've been looking for something above 20x mag, but i like low end too and it seems to me that there are a lot of quality scopes out there with a bigger zoom range.

 

[acudaowner]

I would love to own one , just not at the prices I have seen them for sale . When for 1/2 the cost I could get something newer with more mag and every bit as good glass wise , and works just as well as the snb's I have seen . I have seen others with them and they are happy with em so to them I guess it was a great buy . Good luck which ever you get .

 

[Rob01]

Sounds like you want a S&B 5-25 so buy one. Your money so do with it what you want. They are good scopes. I competed with one for many years. Sounds like their reticle choices will work for you. The P4F would work well. I liked it and the H2CMR.

 

[Money Waster]

I would love to own one , just not at the prices I have seen them for sale . When for 1/2 the cost I could get something newer with more mag and every bit as good glass wise , and works just as well as the snb's I have seen . I have seen others with them and they are happy with em so to them i guess it was a great buy . Good luck which ever you get .

In your opinion, what costs half the price that is just as good? My profile name is Money Waster, but I like to save cash as much as the next guy lol.

 

[Huskydriver]

The new dtII+ turrets rock! Making sb pmii's great again!

 

[Josh.scofield]

Interested too. I don’t like the push button illumination on the atacrs only reason I haven’t considered them. I’d like to try a Schmidt but their product offering it way to complicated for me and wouldn’t know what to get.

 

[acudaowner]

my delta is every bit as clear has the same elevation as the pm 2 cost 1/2 the pm 2 . Ok the pm 2 is ffp , mine is sfp .the pm 2 is 5x25 my delta is 5x50 both have a 56mm objective both a 34mm tube its also almost 10 years younger a scope .again I am not knocking the pm2 in any way nor anyone that bought them I just can't justify to my self spending 2500 or more on a scope that's only 5x25 and the only real difference was the pm 2 had better cross hair options when the delta was 1600 with an extra 25x's mag and i can use it almost almost all summer long and when I can't I turn it down no big deal and when I can use the extra mag I turn it up at 25x's mag that's it all you will ever see is what you can see you can't turn it up to 30 when 25 is the max it will go even on a picture perfect day . I in no way say its better just that i can't justify to my self spending that much more for less .

 

[Money Waster]

Interested too. I don’t like the push button illumination on the atacrs only reason I haven’t considered them. I’d like to try a Schmidt but their product offering it way to complicated for me and wouldn’t know what to get.

Tag along Josh. Looks like we’re looking for the same thing.

 

[Money Waster]

my delta is every bit as clear has the same elevation as the pm 2 cost 1/2 the pm 2 ok is ffp mine is sfp .the pm 2 is 5x25 my delta is 5x50 both a 56mm objective both a 34mm tube

I’m not familiar with the Delta. Got a link to one to share?

 

[lancetkenyon]

S&B PMII is STILL what scopes are compared to. There is a reason for it.

I have three S&Bs currently, and recently sold a fourth.
When you can get a used S&B PMII 5-25×56 DT for under $2k,it is a no brainer.

 

[Lowlight]

With the prices back down to earth, the Socom stuff was driving the 5-25x into the stratosphere, they are definitely worth a look.

I mounted a couple of mine back on the rifles recently and still love them, swapped this guy over 2 weeks ago for this,

Reticle wise, the P4F, even the new GRID, are all good, I like em, I will be review a couple of new models soon.

But you can't go wrong with an S&B especially if you pay less than $3k. Look for deals,

 

[_Windrider_]

With the prices back down to earth, the Socom stuff was driving the 5-25x into the stratosphere, they are definitely worth a look.

I mounted a couple of mine back on the rifles recently and still love them, swapped this guy over 2 weeks ago for this,
View attachment 7283463

Reticle wise, the P4F, even the new GRID, are all good, I like em, I will be review a couple of new models soon.

But you can't go wrong with an S&B especially if you pay less than $3k. Look for deals,

MSR2!

 

[Money Waster]

With the prices back down to earth, the Socom stuff was driving the 5-25x into the stratosphere, they are definitely worth a look.

I mounted a couple of mine back on the rifles recently and still love them, swapped this guy over 2 weeks ago for this,
View attachment 7283463

Reticle wise, the P4F, even the new GRID, are all good, I like em, I will be review a couple of new models soon.

But you can't go wrong with an S&B especially if you pay less than $3k. Look for deals,

Awesome feedback Lowlight. I appreciate the info.

 

[Rob01]

I’m not familiar with the Delta. Got a link to one to share?

The scope he is talking about is not what you want. It's a SFP more for F Class etc. To get something similar to what you want it would be in the $2350-2500 range from them.

 

[19Scout77]

IMO, a used SB 5-25 is about the best scope for the money...period.

 

[Money Waster]

IMO, a used SB 5-25 is about the best scope for the money...period.

What to they typically go for used?

 

[Stevo86]

I have 4, they are great.

 

[nn8734]

Can’t go wrong with the 5-25 as many others have said. Will add that customer service and support is best in class; Jerry and Randy will take care of you if the scope ever needs service (or you want do a reticle swap).

 

[Alpine 338]

I personally prefer the MSR reticle for everything short of some circus stages at some matches that don't let you dial, or have you shoot 12 targets in 30-seconds, while shooting off a bag of soccer balls.

 

[Long Range 338]

The new DTII+ turrets sealed the deal for me. Spacing between clicks is not too fine, locking turret, MTC, no MTC and good reticles. They are very nice and not near as much as some other optics.

 

[Money Waster]

The new DTII+ turrets sealed the deal for me. Spacing between clicks is not too fine, locking turret, MTC, no MTC and good reticles. They are very nice and not near as much as some other optics.

I appreciate all of the responses guys. You are helping me seal the deal on getting one.

 

[Long Range 338]

And another vote for the MSR2, I love it.

 

[deersniper]

$2300

 

[Papamo]

I have two,sent one in and swapped out reticle to a MSR2 . Definitely worth it.

 

[Dthomas3523]

Not worth the retail price IMO. It’s been creeping back up. Definitely worth the prices you see in the PX though.

For $3k+ it’s hard to justify any optics other than Zco or Theta.

 

[Money Waster]

$2300

View attachment 7283502View attachment 7283503View attachment 7283504

Deersniper.......I’d be all over it if I had the cash right now, but I don’t. I get an annual bonus in June. That’s why I’m doing my research now. Thanks for the offer though.

 

[Eric32]

I have a 3-20 H59 non-ultra short, and a 5-25 P4FL. They are hands down awesome. I gave up my khales 624i for them and it was well worth it.

 

[264win]

As mentioned above, it’s fantastic optic. If you can find a used one for less than 2500 ( sometimes 2k) it is a good value imho.
I have a 5-25 pm11 and 5-25 ATACR. Hard to say which I prefer.

 

[Money Waster]

As mentioned above, it’s fantastic optic. If you can find a used one for less than 2500 ( sometimes 2k) it is a good value imho.
I have a 5-25 pm11 and 5-25 ATACR. Hard to say which I prefer.

They have a 20 year transferable warranty, correct?

 

[sleeplz]

My only complaint on the S&B are the turrets are kinda close and not as loud as Vortex. But I prefer the S&B glass and reticle over the Vortex and I've been in matches consistently with no issues.

 

[NorthWesterner]

S&B PMII is STILL what scopes are compared to. There is a reason for it.

I have three S&Bs currently, and recently sold a fourth.
When you can get a used S&B PMII 5-25×56 DT for under $2k,it is a no brainer.

S&B owner here. I would have to disagree about Schmidt being the benchmark. Those days have come and gone. At this point ZCO ant TT are at the top.

That said, if the op wants a 5-25pm2, the prices have came down enough to find a used unit at a reasonable price.My biggest gripe with schmidt is they put the illumination knob in a terrible place. All other manufacturers have figured out how to place the illum in a reasonable location.

if you plan on buying new, I recommend taking a look at the ZCO 4-20. It’s an amazing compact scope and the reticle offerings are awesome.

 

[Long Range 338]

My only complaint on the S&B are the turrets are kinda close and not as loud as Vortex. But I prefer the S&B glass and reticle over the Vortex and I've been in matches consistently with no issues.

This always bothered me in the past. The DTII+ turrets are much nicer to me in this aspect.

 

[goosed]

Love my S&B's. No questions they are still great scopes.

To me the old DT turrets are still among the best for feel and spacing. The MTC turrets were always a... meh, at best. Hear good things about the new DT turrets, but unless you find the new turrets under $3k I'm not sure they are worth the price of admission.

Used S&B's hold their value very well, but as a pure bang for the buck I still favor Vortex GenII's under $1500 and AMG's under $1700.

 

[lancetkenyon]

S&B owner here. I would have to disagree about Schmidt being the benchmark. Those days have come and gone. At this point ZCO ant TT are at the top.

That said, if the op wants a 5-25pm2, the prices have came down enough to find a used unit at a reasonable price.My biggest gripe with schmidt is they put the illumination knob in a terrible place. All other manufacturers have figured out how to place the illum in a reasonable location.

if you plan on buying new, I recommend taking a look at the ZCO 4-20. It’s an amazing compact scope and the reticle offerings are awesome.

I have two ZCO and three TTs.
But, everyone still compares them to the S&B. Even if they beat them a bit. Plus, with the ability to buy used S&Bs for the price of a new Steiner T5Xi or Vortex Razor Gen II, their value skyrockets.

If you are comparing 5-25s, not many people would pay $3600-$4300 for a ZCO or TT525P when they can get a S&B PMII 5-25×56 DT for $1900, or 45-55%.

There are those of us that do however.

 

[clubsportmark]

I side on the camp is the PMii still relevant? Absolutely! As mentioned you can pick up some great deals on either older designs or used. If you want new, with the addition of the new turrets and newer reticles puts them back in with the current crop.

Glass is always subjective. But with all this spare time on our hands at the moment I got so bored and did some scope comparisons. Went head to head with PMii 5-25, Minox ZP5, S&B 3-20US, March 3-24. Did look through my Leica Bushnell’s, & Delta too but they weren’t like for like.

The PMii 5-25 came up top.

So if your thinking it, do it!

 

[Forrest84]

I ran a couple PMII’s years ago but have come back full circle to them now I have 2 of them and an ultra short. Besides you can find plenty of used one here for sale for honest prices anyway

 

[wompa]

Still a good choice. I actually prefer the illumination knob, especially when hunting in cold conditions or low light.

 

[secm]

I’m in the market for a scope with a 25X top end, and am having a hard time deciding what to get. I have two USO LR17s, which I like a lot, but I am desiring a little more magnification on the top end for paper punching and load development. I don’t compete in Precision rifle, but I do enjoy shooting steel at distance which, for me, is out to 800 yards.

I considered another USO, but I don’t believe that they’re the same company that they were years ago when I bought my LR17s, and I don’t want to sink big dollars into something that may have quality issues. I’ve looked at the NF ATACRs, but don’t care for the reticle choices, and frankly, NFs don’t blow up my skirt for some reason. Don’t know why. I don’t want a Vortex or Khales either. That leads me to S&B. For years they have been considered Tier 1 optics with amazing glass. I honestly don’t know how they compare with other offerings in that department as I’ve never gotten behind one, but the legend lives and I have to believe that there is some truth to it.

I’m considering a 5-25 PMII, but I’m not sure which specific model would suite my shooting preferences. I primary dial for elevation and hold for windage, so I don’t need a Horus or similar reticle. FFP is a must. I tend to not trade or sell items once I’ve bought them if they are functional and the quality is high, so this purchase would likely last me the rest of my shooting lifetime. You only live once and I’d like to have at least one high end optic before I’m pushing up daisies. Is this scope that purchase?

Money

S&B is always a good choice. Another fine optic is Steiner. They make in my opion an equally good scope at a better price point. I am a PRS shooter.

 

[smokeon]

From a purely PRS perspective, I'd be very interested in seeing a review of S&B's GRID reticle...

As a self confessed NF loyalist - and having owned a few of the ATACR'S and at one stage a BF BEAST, I recently (again) had a look through a friends S&B PM II, and I have to say - to my eye - the glass in the S&B always blows me away!!!

ie. I reckon S&B glad is noticeably clearer than the NF...(To my eye that is...)

 

[19Scout77]

Steiner and SB equals??? Please share what you’re smoking!!

 

[steve123]

Yep great scopes! Haven't regretted buying mine even though I bought them when they were near their peak price.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The S&B 5-25x56 is a great tried and true solid scope that has been in use for a long time.

It is not the latest coolest scope that everybody is drooling over, but it will serve you well.

In the brand new pricing range, it's a bit of a toss up on value for the money, but in the used market, the average price they go for makes them an excellent value for the money.

The main thing I'd suggest is pick the reticle you want or the 2 you would like, and get that specific one(s). Personally I like the clean uncluttered look of the classic old P4F but doesn't work for a lot of people.

Also decide if you want the MTC feature or not, personally I didn't like it, but some do like it.

There are some updated turrents and new reticles out, but those will up the price a bit.

I've got a bunch of them and like them a lot. The only one I like better is the 5-45x56 but that's a big huge heavy beast.

 

[Huskydriver]

From a purely PRS perspective, I'd be very interested in seeing a review of S&B's GRID reticle...

As a self confessed NF loyalist - and having owned a few of the ATACR'S and at one stage a BF BEAST, I recently (again) had a look through a friends S&B PM II, and I have to say - to my eye - the glass in the S&B always blows me away!!!

ie. I reckon S&B glad is noticeably clearer than the NF...(To my eye that is...)

I'm loving the gr2id reticle. It's probably my fav tree/holdover style reticle that I have used now

 

[SoonerfanNate]

Steiner and SB equals??? Please share what you’re smoking!!

I have a Steiner T5xi and have no issues with it to 800 yards. After that either the scope gets cloudy or my old eyes do. Beyond that. It’s been well worth the money.

i am leaning towards the Schmidt with the Grid2 reticle for my next optic.

 

[smokeon]

I’ve got a 7-35 NF ATACR, MIL- XT (which I’m really enjoying) ... but also leaning towards a S&B with the GRID reticle...
hard to ignore that S&B glass...

 

[koshkin]

I wanted to look at the GR2ID reticle last year, so I tested the 5-25x56 and was really impressed with how well this scope does despite having been around for quite a long time. I like tree reticle and for me GR2ID is one of the best out there now. Whether it is worth the money really depends on what kind of a deal you are getting. If you can find one under $3k (and they are around $2900 at Eurooptic right now, I think), they are absolutely worth it.

Once you go above $3k, it gets trickier, but S&B is still a really good scope at higher prices. It competes well with pretty much everything there until you get to ZCO and TT. When I did my comparisons, it was really obvious that optically TT, ZCO, S&B and Minox belonged in the same group. There are some differences and TT is still the best overall, I think, but it is also a lot more expensive.

If I were in the market right now, 5-25x56 PMII with GR2ID for $2900 would be very difficult to pass up for a precision rifle if you do not need to go below 7x very much.

ILya

 

[Junglejohnny]

I own aS&B pm2 3-27 p4f recticle along with a few Leupold , 12 or so vortex all different models couple trijicon to name a few . And I truly say this as a working guy who needed to save for a S & B , it is worth it .

 

[nad1967]

I have two,sent one in and swapped out reticle to a MSR2 . Definitely worth it.

What did the reticle swap run?

 

[Papamo]

$892 for the swap and $75 extra for insurance for shipping to them. Also I had a bad screw I stripped out and they took out the heavy detent on the MTC.