Rifle Scopes S&B.. NF.. where to put the money on first really high end glass???

[PlinkIt]

Ok I am not an extremely high quality glass collector.. have a Leupold.. couple zeiss scopes.. then its down the run burris.. bushnell.. weaver.. blah blah

So here is my question.. having never looked through these super high priced scopes under shooting situations.. I want to get the info from the guys shooting through them..

where would you spend the money on a high magnification scope if you had ONE no budget restricted scope??

 

[Wildwillalaska]

If I had one, no budget limit scope, it would be a S&B PMII. I have not messed with them much, only looked through one at the range. Clarity was awesome, very bright. Made me a bit sad about my Nightforces goi back and forth between them. Now that it's been a while, back to happy with my NXS.

My problem is. I get rifle ADD and have more rigs than I need. Have loved the NXS scopes and keep adding one here and there to where each of my extended range rifles wear one. While I like the S&B a shit ton, I love my NXS and can 2 of them for the price of one S&B. I also like having the same turrets and similar reticles between my rifles--so if I made the switch, I'd want to swap them all over time, and there is no way in hell I'm going to go out and buy 8 S&B scopes any time soon.

So if I were to buy one, S&B, but since I need more, I'll continue slumming with a smile and stick to Nightforce.

 

[hk dave]

S&B 3-27 would probably be it.

 

[pupdawg]

Between Schmidt and NF only? I guess the Schmidt 3-27 with H2CMR reticle...

But if you're asking "where would I spend the money (NO BUDGET) on JUST ONE high magnification scope"? Assuming that money is no problem? Hensoldt 3.5-26 cause its ridiculous.

It really comes down to how you plan on using this "high priced scope" and how this scope will help you... not just that you have the money to do it once.

 

[Why1504]

No budget, S&B.

Budget, NF.

First, i prefer to buy from US companies. But, I went thru the same analysis. Fondled the S&B. Fondled the NF. I couldn't tell any difference. No one would ever question choosing S&B except from a cost standpoint. I can't fathom buying anything that expensive without cost as a consideration. You could by a nice gun for the difference in price.

 

[vman]

I would buy the NF.

In my time I have seen more S&B warranty issues than I have NF.

Both are great scopes.

 

[PlinkIt]

Between Schmidt and NF only? I guess the Schmidt 3-27 with H2CMR reticle...

But if you're asking "where would I spend the money (NO BUDGET) on JUST ONE high magnification scope"? Assuming that money is no problem? Hensoldt 3.5-26 cause its ridiculous.

It really comes down to how you plan on using this "high priced scope" and how this scope will help you... not just that you have the money to do it once.

Not confined to NF and S&B ..

And yes just wanting the opinions for where everyone would look if only having the option to have one really nice optic.. Going to put all my eggs in one basket with trying to learn longer range shooting for accuracy and try to invest once and never look back.. Second guessing on optics that cost a few thousand dollars will get expensive.. I'm not that rich but I am willing to grit my teeth and give this one solid full on try.. And I know that there is an incredible difference between let's say some hundred dollar barska and a Zeiss .. So I'm assuming the same is true as you go further up the scale,. And I can't shoot what I can't see..

 

[sib1948]

Get the S&B. You won't want to shoot other rifles, since the other scopes will disappoint you !

 

[Graham]

I would not buy a new SB.

Get a NF F1, or an old 5-25x SB.

 

[Craniotome]

I would look at the steiner 5x25 with msr reticle. I just put one on my trg 42 and really like the reticle and the glass. I like it better than my premier for overall use and the reticle.

 

[Rob01]

Have you looked at the Vortex Razor II 4.5-27x56? I have owned many S&Bs, NF, etc etc but I am really excited about getting this scope in. I believe once it hits the streets in a few months it will be in the words of Red Jacket a game changa LOL The feature set, reticles and price point will make people very happy.

I am a self proclaimed cheap bastard but I have no problem spending money on great glass but I also don't see a point in spending more than a I have to. If I can find a scope that gives me everything I need for $1000 less than another then it's an easy choice.

 

[sib1948]

Have you looked at the Vortex Razor II 4.5-27x56? I have owned many S&Bs, NF, etc etc but I am really excited about getting this scope in. I believe once it hits the streets in a few months it will be in the words of Red Jacket a game changa LOL The feature set, reticles and price point will make people very happy.

I too have this scope on preorder and suspect it will be early June before it arrives-with luck, maybe sooner. If come in as advertised, this will be a great option rivaling other premium at a much lesser price. Three pound weight will not be an issue for my needs. We'll see!

 

[Abq-Defense]

I would first determine my basic needs, THEN look at the makers that make scopes that fit my main parameters of:
- MOA or Mil
- Type of Reticle
- FFP or SFP
- Magnification need (3-12x, 5-25x, etc).
- Elevation (are you shooting less than 1000 yards or going ELR)?

If you answer these questions first, you may narrow the makers down a bit.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I would not buy a new SB.

Get a NF F1, or an old 5-25x SB.

This. The old S&B's were much better. The NF F1 is just a bulletproof scope that works. Mine fell 5' on the first stage of a match hard enough to dent the eyepiece and take a nubbin off the power ring. I picked it up and made hits at 800+ yards and took second place. I'm still using it on my match rifle and it continues to perform and has never shifted zero.

 

[Captain Kirk]

I recently traded in a few of my S&B 5-25s and switched all the rifles to Bushnell XLR 5-30s. Top end glass is fun to own, but I came to the realization that just because a optic costs more and I feel good about owning "the best", it didn't help me shoot any better at the end of the day. What do I look for in a scope? Glass has to be good, it doesn't need to be the best. Turrets need to be tactile and track. Reticle is one of the most important features to me, which is why I like the G2DMR in the Bushnell. Last, the warranty and the company behind the optic.

With that said, if you have already decided to go for a ultra high end Tactica$$ optic, I would vote for S&B 5-25 or Premier 5-25. I haven't had the opportunity to shoot with the new BEAST but did play with one, looks interesting. I'd like to see the new Vortex Razor II 4.5-27x56 when it comes out, as Rob mentioned, I think it will fill the middle-high end optics gap nicely.

Kirk Roberts

 

[Millionaire]

Schmidt & Bender + Spuhr would be my vote

 

[Roddd]

I love my S&B scopes, but there are other high quality scopes out there for less that'll perform equally or close to it. But you can't go wrong with the S&B. If you decide it's not your cup o' tea, you can sell it here quickly at minimum depreciation. I recommend a 5-25 with the H2CMR reticle.

 

[NevadaZielmeister]

Ok I am not an extremely high quality glass collector.. have a Leupold.. couple zeiss scopes.. then its down the run burris.. bushnell.. weaver.. blah blah

So here is my question.. having never looked through these super high priced scopes under shooting situations.. I want to get the info from the guys shooting through them..

where would you spend the money on a high magnification scope if you had ONE no budget restricted scope??

I have the Schmidt and Bender Police Marksman II 5-25x56 with everything, including the MSR reticle. I use this for competition shooting, including the upcoming Sniper's Hide Cup. I have never been disappointed with this scope. The thing to remember is that you are buying a gun site, not a camera lens. You want something that is easy to use and understand. It needs to be simple and quick. Things like double turn turret, adjustable illumination, accurate parallax adjustment and multipurpose sniper reticle (http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...copes/184755-official-msr-reticle-thread.html). You would want front focal plane to be able to use wind calls through the reticle on any level of magnification. The Schmidt and Bender has all of that and more.

Very few Schmidt and Bender owners complain about the customer service they get. I have yet to hear of anyone not getting their scope fixed past the warranty period. So much so, that when I screwed up due to my own negligence, I was AMAZED at how well they took care of me: http://www.snipershide.com/shooting...xcellent-customer-service-schmidt-bender.html

Nightforce makes great scopes and there is a lot of rave about the BEAST. I hope to hear more about it. Only time will tell if they are any good, since they just came out.

 

[brwn bggr]

I've only been able to "pet" an S&B...I thought it was a very nice critter indeed...
But I have to stick with my heart,and NF is just plain comfort food...!

 

[beenjammin]

What graham said. Get a used s&b right here. Since Jerry is at s&b the warranty issues are gone

 

[QuietShootr]

This. The old S&B's were much better. The NF F1 is just a bulletproof scope that works. Mine fell 5' on the first stage of a match hard enough to dent the eyepiece and take a nubbin off the power ring. I picked it up and made hits at 800+ yards and took second place. I'm still using it on my match rifle and it continues to perform and has never shifted zero.

That right there is why I'd save my money and go NF over Vortex.

 

[E. Bryant]

When voting with my wallet, I chose the S-B 5-25 PMII and the Nightforce F1.

The next time that I "vote", the BEAST will be considered. Had it been available last fall, I'd probably own two of them already.

 

[Clusterfrack]

I'm very happy with my S&B PM II MSR. It's very hard to go back to my Leupold Mk 4.

 

[Sgposin]

I would buy the NF.

In my time I have seen more S&B warranty issues than I have NF.

Both are great scopes.

Can you elaborate on these S&B "Warranty issues". I've heard nothing but great things about the warranty and Jerry's willingness to take any aged scope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Not confined to NF and S&B ..

......And I can't shoot what I can't see..

I love these subjective questions. @55 I have 20/30 vision. I get no advantage over an SWFA 5-20x $1200 scope over the high priced glass. In fact, I shoot just as well with the rebadged Weaver 4-20x that used to be Black Hawk (Cabela brand). I'm just saying you can shoot what you can't see. We all know the glass isn't going to make the x ring more visible at long range to the point it is going to make a difference unless you are Jesus Christ himself. But I will answer your question. I would go with what I already have and that is the SWFA. The rest of the limitless budget would go towards the rifle, other needed components, tweaked ammo, and of course, my own being. Okay, I've walked on water long enough and I'm starting to sink...

 

[PlinkIt]

I love these subjective questions. @55 I have 20/30 vision. I get no advantage over an SWFA 5-20x $1200 scope over the high priced glass. In fact, I shoot just as well with the rebadged Weaver 4-20x that used to be Black Hawk (Cabela brand). I'm just saying you can shoot what you can't see. We all know the glass isn't going to make the x ring more visible at long range to the point it is going to make a difference unless you are Jesus Christ himself. But I will answer your question. I would go with what I already have and that is the SWFA. The rest of the limitless budget would go towards the rifle, other needed components, tweaked ammo, and of course, my own being. Okay, I've walked on water long enough and I'm starting to sink...

I agree completely subjective question.. Was wondering if they're would be a general consensus among the more senior members of the forum.. I know they are all high quality when you get to the 1k price tags.. Just wanted to see where the opinions fall

 

[flatland1]

I started out shooting practical/tactical steel matches with Sightron SIII 6-24x50 LRMOA scopes a few years ago on a couple of my rifles, then got a couple of Vortex Viper PST 6-24x50s. Never had a problem with either brand - except for losing track of my zero with the Sightrons a couple of times (no zero stop). It's no secret that both feature good optical quality & good tracking, so I won't repeat the obvious.

But when I finally decided that I needed a ffp scope, and decided to switch from the MOA to MIL system, I didn't know how high up the food chain I'd have to go to get quality glass, a good reticle, and accurate tracking. Research here seemed to indicate that a lot of guys were happy with 34mm Bushnells & G2DMR reticle, so I wound up calling Scott at Liberty for a ET35215GZA. That was more money than I'd ever spent before for a scope, and I haven't been disappointed, even though I'd have preferred that it have the same 24x I'd gotten used to with the SIIIs & PSTs. This being my first mil/mil scope, I thought the zero stop was important enough to spend the extra $$ for - only after I'd worked with it a bit did I realize that 10 mils would get me out past 1000yds. Not a big deal - I'm happy with the scope, and have seriously considered buying another one, or maybe try the 4.5-30x50 XRS. Even though several guys here have said it gets a little dark at 30x, I'd be willing to bet that it'd work well at 24x-25x, which is as far as I'd likely push it during a match.

But about three weeks ago, I started reading a lot of good things about Kahles and their new AMR reticle, and wound up buying a K624i AMR. It cost me all the $$$ I'd saved back from the sale of three AR15 Service Rifles several years ago, but so far, I haven't had any issues with the dreaded 'buyer remorse' syndrome. At the ripe old age of 62, I'm not sure my vision is good enough to fully appreciate the quality of the glass in the Kahles - I can't honestly say that I can see an obvious difference between it and the Bushnell ERS when using both on steel at 600. I will say that the Kahles is excellent in less than perfect light conditions - I shot with it until around 8:15 last evening, after the sun had set, and wasn't having any issues seeing what I was shooting at. Should've set the two rifles side-by-side and done a comparison with both set to 21x in that light - might've been able to see how much - if any - advantage the Kahles' glass & 56mm objective had over the Bushnell's 50mm. But, it'd been a long day, I was tired, ready to load up and go home; really doubt I'd have learned much.

Which brings me to this conclusion - youth is wasted on the young. It's taken me to this point in my life to be able to swing the purchase of any of the scopes in this price range, and I'm not darned sure that - aside from pride of ownership - it makes that much difference when it comes down to being able to put a shot right where I want it to go. Like most of you here, I'd love to be able to get my hands on the new Gen II Razor HD 4.5-27x56 and a NF BEAST, but even if I did - at my age, would it really make any difference?

 

[majohnson2]

It always surprise me when the tunneling issues that S&B are know to have rarely gets mention.

 

[sib1948]

It always surprise me when the tunneling issues that S&B are know to have rarely gets mention.

Never at low enough power (<7X) for it to be as issue.

 

[poison123]

It always surprise me when the tunneling issues that S&B are know to have rarely gets mention.

Because people who bitch and moan about the damn tunneling have no idea wtf they are talking about.


But to the question of this thread.
Either a old pre 2 year S&B 5-25, or the BEAST. The BEAST on my trainer rifle is growing on me.

 

[ZombieMonkey]

I would say you could practically put a list up an a wall and blindly pick one of the high end scopes and be happy. I have a 5-25 S&B PMII and love the thing, but I won't buy another simply because I would like to try out the glass of other manufactuters. The beast is of interset as are some of the offerings from Kahles, March, Steiner, and the new Razor just to name a few.

Also, like others said, if you go S&B get one from before they changed to the 2 year warranty. I likely would not have purchased my S&B if it only had a 2 year warranty. There are too many people out there offering a lifetime warranty and if you are going to use the scope, something is bound to happen to it. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when in my mind.

 

[RTA48]

You should take a look at March scopes.

 

[Shoottothrill]

S&B PM11 5-25x with MSR reticle. Live happy next ten years while others still try to catch up. Just my humble opinion, not trying to start a shit storm. It's just so good all the way around. I was shooting mine today at the range and was just amazed once again at the glass, the reticle, ease of use, overall feel of quality. The oohs and aahs from other shooters are nice too, but that's no reason to buy one.

 

[W54/XM-388]

I would personally recommend the S&B 5-25x56 scope in your choice of reticle, it is a time tested well respected scope that is the benchmark that everyone is trying to meet or beat.

That being said, a lot of good things have been reported from the new Nightforce Beast scope.
Being that both run about the same cost, it comes down to what you prefer.

The Sphur mount is an excellent choice especially with the angle indicator added on.

 

[smschulz]

S&B always will be the Holy Grail to me.
I have both NF and S&B.

 

[thrusty]

I'm stuck between the new Vortex Razor gen2, NF BEAST, or S&B PMII.....I'll probably vote with my wallet and get the Vortex as it's everything I want, except for the weight.

 

[the once-ler]

Premier to my fairly well trained eyes has some of the best optical resolution, color and contrast of all the scopes I have owned and I have had many, S&B, Hensoldt, NF F1 NXS ATACR, Kahles, Vortex etc. The only one I haven't owned yet is a March. You can find some KILLER deals on Premier scopes right now that the newer TT are on the way. I just picked up a brand new in the box Premier 5-25x56 for $2300.

 

[ScottyD]

You can find some KILLER deals on Premier scopes right now that the newer TT are on the way. I just picked up a brand new in the box Premier 5-25x56 for $2300.

Whoa! Is there more of that to go around? Or was that a one time deal? Can you point me in the right direction?

 

[K_4c]

I've owned a Stiener, kahles, PH and now a S&B (all 5/6-24/25x models).

If I were to rank them: S&B & a 3 way tie for second

I'm now on the fence if I want a NF beast or another S&B... To me, S&B is the gold standard, but, I've talked with a few people I trust and they said that the beast is the top tier scope. So, expect a follow up.... b/c I gotta scratch that itch.

 

[Shoottothrill]

I was thinking of the Beast for my next scope, it would go on a .50BMG, but I'm so damn happy with my S&B that I might just get the exact same scope again so there's no learning curve. Also the elevation turret on the Beast seems really tall and the flip lever thing i'm not to sure about. Waiting for more reviews from actual end users.

 

[the once-ler]

Whoa! Is there more of that to go around? Or was that a one time deal? Can you point me in the right direction?

Yea that was a one time deal me sniffing and scratching around and just making wild ass lowball offers. There are always deals out there to be had... if you have the cash... it's amazing what can happen when you wag those Ben Franklins around. There are great deals to be had on Premiers now. People think, oh they aren't being made anymore so I should get rid of this, but they fail to realize they will be warranted for at least the foreseeable future and they are some of the best glass ever produced.
Everyone has and is entitled their own opinion.. just my 2c

 

[ScottyD]

Yea that was a one time deal me sniffing and scratching around and just making wild ass lowball offers. There are always deals out there to be had... if you have the cash... it's amazing what can happen when you wag those Ben Franklins around. There are great deals to be had on Premiers now. People think, oh they aren't being made anymore so I should get rid of this, but they fail to realize they will be warranted for at least the foreseeable future and they are some of the best glass ever produced.
Everyone has and is entitled their own opinion.. just my 2c

Understood. Nice find! I'm getting ready to spend the big money (for the first time) on a top-tier optic, and that price would have definitely put a Premier at the top of my list! I appreciate the advice. Funny, I immediately starting checking all the major vendor sites for a Premier sale after reading your post! haha...

 

[W54/XM-388]

. There are great deals to be had on Premiers now. People think, oh they aren't being made anymore so I should get rid of this, but they fail to realize they will be warranted for at least the foreseeable future and they are some of the best glass ever produced.
Everyone has and is entitled their own opinion.. just my 2c

Well now that there are deals to be had sure... but some of us remember when the idiots that ran Premier were a bunch of arrogant bastards who's stated actual policy was that if they charge a fortune for their scopes people will think they really must be the best & went around screwing over anyone that gave anybody any deals on them... I guess that business plan worked out really well... And in the end the truth comes again... they are great scopes when you can find an excellent deal on them... not so much when you are forcefed a crazy high price.

 

[the once-ler]

Well now that there are deals to be had sure... but some of us remember when the idiots that ran Premier were a bunch of arrogant bastards who's stated actual policy was that if they charge a fortune for their scopes people will think they really must be the best & went around screwing over anyone that gave anybody any deals on them... I guess that business plan worked out really well... And in the end the truth comes again... they are great scopes when you can find an excellent deal on them... not so much when you are forcefed a crazy high price.

Yes we are all aware of the Liberty Optics scandal... and a few others. And it is understandable to want to keep market prices high for your product. Thankfully the rotten top brass from the old Premier corp has been flushed and replaced with what seems to be people with new vision and direction. All the best was kept in place such as Paul Lange at the Virginia service center.
Look at how March does it. They have one US distributor, Kelbly's and they set the prices. They have no one to compete with or undercut their prices.

Is $4200 considered a crazy high price?? W54?? Look at the new Hensoldt and S&B scopes $7000 come on? Is that scope really worth 7k??

 

[poison123]

Yes we are all aware of the Liberty Optics scandal... and a few others. And it is understandable to want to keep market prices high for your product. Thankfully the rotten top brass from the old Premier corp has been flushed and replaced with what seems to be people with new vision and direction. All the best was kept in place such as Paul Lange at the Virginia service center.
Look at how March does it. They have one US distributor, Kelbly's and they set the prices. They have no one to compete with or undercut their prices.

Is $4200 considered a crazy high price?? W54?? Look at the new Hensoldt and S&B scopes $7000 come on? Is that scope really worth 7k??

For a 5-25...yes 4200 is a crazy high price.

And yes Hensoldt and S&B went insane for the pricing on their 27x's but at least that was a push for a new mag range.

You can keep your PH's, those of us who've been around remember their shitty mgmt, their easily binded tubes for parallax, their knobs breaking off.


OP I stick by my first suggestion:
If you don't want to spend a ton of cash, get a Bushnell.
If you can find a legit 30 year warranty S&B snap it up.
Or look for a BEAST. I've been spending a lot of time with mine on my trainer and I'm liking it more and more next to my S&B.

 

[PlinkIt]

Thanks for the opinions guys!!

I feel good about either the older S&B or the BEAST now so time to shop.

 

[6tac6jack6]

Hensoldt 6-24x72 mm makes all these look like the clarity of a Tasco. Literally doesn't get better. And I I have one for sale

 

[Nemain]

Schmidt & Bender PMII's all the way for me. I have never found anything better or even equal. They are pricey, but spend the dough if you can afford it, you won't be disappointed.

 

[NoLegs24]

Hensoldt 6-24x72 mm makes all these look like the clarity of a Tasco. Literally doesn't get better. And I I have one for sale

Then why you have it for sale? genius.....

 

[6tac6jack6]

I don't think it's any if your business why I have to liquidate my assets. Would you like to know what today's Cleveland steamer looked like too? ... Genius.

Rangers Lead the Way!