Rifle Scopes S&B P4l Fine Reticle - Is it any good?

[Rate_of_Twist]

I have never owned a "real" scope, but I'm about to pull the trigger on my first for my future PVA JH.

From everything I've looked through so far, with my astigmatism looks too "busy" and I have a hard time focusing. I dont really thing a Christmas tree type reticle will work for me.

On top of that I am also "value shopping" as I really dont want to be in a $3k+ optic. I have noticed a few really good prices on S&B PMII 5-25 that have the P4l Fine reticle and I wonder why such discounts

Is the P4l fine a usable reticle for PRS type competitions? Basic range estimation and hold offs for correction without dialing?

Thanks for all the help from this forum, you guys are great!

 

[lash]

I have one of those discounted or reduced price PMIIs with the P4LF reticles that I bought last year before they were listed for even less. The scope itself is a very nice scope and I have it on my .338 LM that I use for ELR mostly. Love it! But, personally I think that the reticle is a bit too fine for my preference for PRS style comps. I like slightly heavier main stadia with a fine cross center or dot center for that. However, I know that many people prefer the finer reticles.

When spending that much coin, you really will be better served by looking through a few scopes with different reticles and find one that really works for you. I think that picking the right reticle is about 90% of the choice when buying a good scope. I found that out the hard way, even though others have pointed this out too.

Where are you located? Is there any opportunity to hook up with members here that might have some of the scopes/reticles you are interested in? Maybe get a good look through one first? Have you taken a good look at the published pictures of the reticle to at least see if it appeals to you somewhat?

 

[Fig]

Go to a match and be the guy who asks to look through everyone’s scopes. 99% of people love their rifle and scope, are happy to show it off, and happy to have an audience. It’s like walking up to a woman and saying, “My, what beautiful children, and so well behaved!”.

 

[_Windrider_]

im moving away from Horus type reticles myself. i have an astigmatism as well but never had any issue with the tree reticles i just find that they aren't as gee wiz awesome as they are marketed, but they are useable.

I am now looking into MSR type reticles (of which the P4 could be considered) and have my eyes on the MSR-K available in the Kahles 624i. S&B also has an MSR reticle in some of their products.

 

[Fig]

I don’t range much through my scope, so I like SKMR-3 for wind and holding over. Not even in the same dimension as Horus.

 

[pineoak]

SKMR3 is damn near perfect reticle IMO.

If you're value shopping, call GA Precision and put a deposit down on the LRHS. Scope is only $750

1/3 the price of the S&B (not as nice as the S&B, and lower mag range)

4.5-18x, but people have said more like 16x as the eye box is too tight up high

Use that scope while looking through every scope you can- Razor, NF, S&B, etc. see what works or doesn't work for you. shoot more and you'll learn what your preferences are

read up on scope specs and see which reticles are offered to quickly eliminate ones you don't like (ie. Xmas tree)

+1 on gettting quality scope rings/mount as they're the critical link between the scope and rifle

JH is going to be a very nice gun. Congrats!!!

 

[_Windrider_]

SKMR3 is damn near perfect reticle IMO.

If you're value shopping, call GA Precision and put a deposit down on the LRHS. Scope is only $750

1/3 the price of the S&B (not as nice as the S&B, and lower mag range)

4.5-18x, but people have said more like 16x as the eye box is too tight up high

Use that scope while looking through every scope you can- Razor, NF, S&B, etc. see what works or doesn't work for you. shoot more and you'll learn what your preferences are

read up on scope specs and see which reticles are offered to quickly eliminate ones you don't like (ie. Xmas tree)

+1 on gettting quality scope rings/mount as they're the critical link between the scope and rifle

JH is going to be a very nice gun. Congrats!!!

i couldnt recomend anyone Bushnell. I have an ERS on my 6.5 that crapped out beyond 1k. Ran out of parallax and could hardly distinguish the targets. if you dont shoot beyond 1k the LRHS would be fine, but i just cant in good conscience recommend those anymore.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The S&B P4LF is excellent if you do a lot of work in the higher magnification end.
I have both the P4L and the P4LF, and generally prefer the P4LF for most target shooting needs.
I am however thinking about getting the 5-45 with the H2CMR

 

[BarrettBoy]

It's a great usable clutter free reticle.
Some people might prefer specific features it doesn't have, like floating center dots, more detailed mil marks etc.

If you want to do wind+distance holdoffs together it'll be more difficult than with a complex reticle.

The P4FL is the one you see most commonly discounted because it's the most common reticle they make them with, and they don't have the added cost of royalties if they used a premier or horus reticle.

 

[grimmie]

I just got my PMII with the P4 Fine reticle. I like a clutter free reticle and from the little bit of shooting I did with it getting it zeroed I really like it. It is fairly thin or "Fine" but it is great for shooting small targets, or small areas on a target rather. Comparing it to my USO LR17, it's really precise when looking through it as compared to the USO. Glass is perfect!! I'm excited to get out and shoot with it some. Come on weekend!!

 

[hk dave]

P4F is a great reticle.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

IMO the P4F lacks detail I want in a LR optic which at the very minimum is .2 mils hash marks. Having nothing for a full mil out form the crosshairs is a deal breaker for it. The Tremor 3 is my favorite reticle but I also like the H2CMR and the new LRR-MIL looks very nice but I don't think is out there just yet.

Euro Optic is selling the 5-25 with P4F for $2395 in the preferred CCW knob combo. A reticle swap to a H2CMR is $500 IIRC and a LRR-MIL will probably be about the same. A reticle swap to a Horus reticle is $900 with the licensing fee. The H2CMR scope sells for $3200 and the Horus scopes $2650. At $2395 you can buy the scope and have the best scope now just lacking a more ideal reticle and then have the reticle changed down the road when funds allow and still be money ahead vs buying a different reticle now.

That's what I'd do.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

IMO the P4F lacks detail I want in a LR optic which at the very minimum is .2 mils hash marks. Having nothing for a full mil out form the crosshairs is a deal breaker for it. The Tremor 3 is my favorite reticle but I also like the H2CMR and the new LRR-MIL looks very nice but I don't think is out there just yet.

Euro Optic is selling the 5-25 with P4F for $2395 in the preferred CCW knob combo. A reticle swap to a H2CMR is $500 IIRC and a LRR-MIL will probably be about the same. A reticle swap to a Horus reticle is $900 with the licensing fee. The H2CMR scope sells for $3200 and the Horus scopes $2650. At $2395 you can buy the scope and have the best scope now just lacking a more ideal reticle and then have the reticle changed down the road when funds allow and still be money ahead vs buying a different reticle now.

That's what I'd do.

Wait, S&B will change out a reticle?!?

 

[W54/XM-388]

Yes, I called them on it before (but decided just to leave my scope as is for now), they will change the reticle out for you, when I checked it was $500

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

Yes, I called them on it before (but decided just to leave my scope as is for now), they will change the reticle out for you, when I checked it was $500

Well, that might seal the deal then... I have ZERO experience so frankly whatever I pick right now for a reticle might be "wrong" for me in a year or two.... with a PMII under $2400, even if I drop $500 later to go to a different reticle I'm still in an ok position. I just hate, HATE going back an re buying gear because I didnt get what I wanted or what I needed the first time... Given my setup, I have no plans to have multiple rifles / optics like this so I wanna get this right

I purchased a used ARC M10 QD-L from a member here, I'm assuming that would be a good place to start as far as a mount?

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

The S&B P4LF is excellent if you do a lot of work in the higher magnification end.
I have both the P4L and the P4LF, and generally prefer the P4LF for most target shooting needs.
I am however thinking about getting the 5-45 with the H2CMR

What is it about the H2CMR that you like over the P4LF?

 

[W54/XM-388]

I'm not actually sure if it's much use, but I think it would be easier to count the extended hold offs due to the alternating design, also a for extended holds right at the edges, it goes edge to edge without the black lines.

Mostly when at the top end of magnification.
Probably much less useful at low magnification.

 

[m1match]

What I like about the H2CMR is the .2 mil hash marks. If I have enough time in a match, I dial for elevation and hold for wind and the .2 mil hash marks make holding for wind on small targets easier, even though the P4F reticle can be used just as effectively for the same wind holds. What I don't like about the H2CMR is at max magnification, the reticle can be a bit thick and at minimum magnification it's so small that it's not very useable. For matches at my local club, I'm usually up around 10x minimum so the H2CMR is a pretty good reticle. The only time I wish I had a christmas tree reticle like the Kahles SKMR3 is in stages where the wind is up, like above 7 mph, and we can't dial elevation or we don't have time to dial elevation

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

$2325 for a brand new S&B PMII P4fine FFP CCW DT MRAD or hold out for a better price?

 

[m1match]

That's a pretty good price, I don't think I have seen a better price anywhere.

 

[grimmie]

I was told by Euro Optics that they are moving to a new warehouse (I think) and that's the reason for the price cuts. I jumped on it too... They offer the LEO discount for those in the Military/LEO/First responders. That's what I did, just couldn't pass that deal up ya know... I did the 5-25, DT, P4F, CW, MRAD.

 

[BarrettBoy]

$2325 for a brand new S&B PMII P4fine FFP CCW DT MRAD or hold out for a better price?

That's really good.
generally I see them hover around 2500 for a good deal.

All time lowest I've seen is 2070 on opticsplanet. That's after a 15% off coupon though. Theoretically you could stack that even further to 2007 if you have a personal affiliate link.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

That's it, I'm done.... $2295. Order placed. I probably could have held out and saved at least another $100 but enough of the obsessing.

5-25 PMII with a p4fine reticle MRAD CCW D/T it is.

 

[Payneful7]

As a EuroOptic sales team member, I can tell you that is the best price we will be offering on that scope. We still have quite a few left in stock at that price, but once they are gone, we will not be getting them back in again at that price unless something changes from now to then on S&Bs side. The only thing I could offer beyond that price is if you wanted to pay with check, we can take another 2% off. You will need to do that over the phone however.

 

[jonthomps]

The P4F is a great reticle. And $2295 is a screaming good deal.

 

[samson7x]

I jumped on the Eurooptic deal and couldn’t be happier. This scope has really blown me away and I’m sure you will be pleased with your purchase. I also chose ARC rings and absolutely love their design. I’ve used Seekins in the past and these are a significant step up IMO.

 

[Bevan]

I've been using one in a 3-12x50 PMII for the last 8 years and cannot fault it at all.

 

[lennyo3034]

How does the P4F do at low light low mag? I'm considering the 3-12x42 precision hunter with P4F and am worried I won't be able to pick it out when very dark.

 

[m1match]

My S&Bs are all illuminated reticle, and the P4F will do fine with illumination.

 

[DrRansom]

I've shot a PMII 52-5 DT P4F for years and on many different rifles, and I love it. You can do more with more reticle technology, but you certainly do not need it.

The illumination is not designed for day usage, it is very dim. Nothing like DigIllum, you would not be able to use it during the day.

 

[LastShot300]

Love it. Useful, clean and simple.

 

[Rate_of_Twist]

What is the correct use of the 4 ranging lines down at the bottom of the P4l fine reticle along with the long line under them? How are these practically used?
(I feel really dumb asking this, sorry)

 

[Wildfire1550]

I don't shoot any prs, just elr and really like an uncluttered reticle

 

[Dthomas3523]

What is the correct use of the 4 ranging lines down at the bottom of the P4l fine reticle along with the long line under them? How are these practically used?
(I feel really dumb asking this, sorry)

If I remember correctly, those cover 50cm at 200, 300, 400, and 500 meters respectively. And also if i remember correctly, that's almost 20".

So if you know something is around 20 inches and it fits in one of those marks, you have a quick range. Or if you have something that is 50 cm and fits, same thing.

There are also mil values. I believe the lowest one is 1 mil, then 1.25, then 1.68, and lastly 2.5 mil

So, lets say your target is known to be 50 cm, it fits in the tallest 2.5 mil. That would be 200 m

To check this, the math would be:

Height in cm
----------------- x 10 = range in meters
Height in mil

50/2.5 = 20 20 x 10 = 200 meters