S&W ORC cant group

[pmclaine]

A co-worker bought a S&W optics ready carbine last summer. The dealer put some cheap back up sights on it and sent the buyer out the door.

All excited my co-worker came to the range with me. While I made nice groups with my 03 at 100 yards his rifle was all over the place. Getting it on paper was a chore. Nothing on paper at 100 yards could be termed a group. At 25 yards the "Group" was 6-8 inches plus. Three different people shot the rifle with little produced to call a group.

The BUIS were really cheap. He bought a Burris .223 scope and PEPR mount. Not S&B but should be capable at 100 yards. Again no good. Getting on paper was a thing of luck.

Today we tried again. It was a mess. I took off the scope and put a set of LMT BUIS on the rifle. No groups, impacts in the berm or sporadic on paper. Another shooter broke out a Vortex and mounted the known good scope on the S&W rifle. Out of 5 shots on a target perhaps 25" wide x 36" tall maybe three would be on paper with a greater than 10" dispersion. The shooter that provided the Vortex shot the rifle with the same results. I shot my LMT using KAC 200-600 BUIS with similar ammo and held a respectable group on a 6" shoot and see. We tried two brands of 55 grain we brought with us and the shooter that provided the Vortex had us try some M855 to see if it would work better in the 1/9 barrel. I should have put the Burris scope on my rifle to rule out a scope issue but I didn't think of that while at the range.

I'm still of the mind set that with a brand new rifle from a capable gun manufacturer this is operator error after all how can anyone in this day and age screw up building an AR?

The good thing is that I am confident S&W will stand by the rifle if it is a rifle issue. In the hopes of not wasting their time is their anything to check on the build to determine if something could be a problem? The only issue I can think of is the barrel to receiver connection. What to look for?

We wont investigate too far expecting S&W will know what to look for.

 

[KULT]

Is the rifle stock in terms of muzzle devices ? There might be a burr in the barrel or the crown is messed up. What ammo was he using ?

 

[Temp9]

Hard to tell without actually handling the rifle, but I'd agree that something about the barrel/receiver mating is screwed up, or there's some kind of baffle strike like KULT said. I can't think of anything else on an AR that would cause groups like that.

 

[pmclaine]

Is the rifle stock in terms of muzzle devices ? There might be a burr in the barrel or the crown is messed up. What ammo was he using ?

Rifle is stock. Its MA compliant so it came with a target crown - no muzzle device. Nothing apparent with the bore being messed up that caught my eye when I made an effort to boresight the scope.

Ammo included LC09 55 grn, IMI 55 grn and LC13 M855.

Thank you for your time pondering the problem.

 

[pmclaine]

Hard to tell without actually handling the rifle, but I'd agree that something about the barrel/receiver mating is screwed up, or there's some kind of baffle strike like KULT said. I can't think of anything else on an AR that would cause groups like that.

I have an LMT CQB so barrel receiver connections are pretty easy to check on my gun. His rifle has a carbine length Troy quad rail handguard factory installed. Im not willing to take stuff apart thinking it better S&W get the gun in its current state.

I wish I had thought to mount the Burris on my rifle to rule out a scope issue. Still his gun is a mess with the LMT irons and those are a good product. My inclination is operator error but 4 reasonably skillied shooters had the same results.

Thank you for your time and ideas.

 

[BCP]

I have an LMT CQB so barrel receiver connections are pretty easy to check on my gun. His rifle has a carbine length Troy quad rail handguard factory installed. Im not willing to take stuff apart thinking it better S&W get the gun in its current state.

I wish I had thought to mount the Burris on my rifle to rule out a scope issue. Still his gun is a mess with the LMT irons and those are a good product. My inclination is operator error but 4 reasonably skillied shooters had the same results.

Thank you for your time and ideas.

Send it back to SW they have put out lemons from time to time. Just google for SW with no rifling (yes someone got one that was a smoothbore). Also my buddy's shop had a 223 one that had a 16 twist barrel or something like the 22 LR ones have.

 

[pnorris]

I would send it back to the manufacturer. Something is seriously wrong. If you start messing with it too much you might void the warranty and be out of luck. They probably will only want the upper back which makes it much easier, as it won't have to go through an FFL.

 

[JeffLebowski]

S&W will make this right, guaranteed.

 

[ORD]

Send it back to SW they have put out lemons from time to time. Just google for SW with no rifling (yes someone got one that was a smoothbore). Also my buddy's shop had a 223 one that had a 16 twist barrel or something like the 22 LR ones have.

^^ +1 on this! ^^

I remember the smooth-bore M&P-15 from a while back...EPIC!!

You can attempt to check the torque on the barrel nut to see if its been properly installed (but only if you have the wrenches need to do that...don't know what screwy bbl nut wrench S&W went with if they strayed from DPMS which I think that they did). Depending on HOW you are shooting the rifle to accuracy test it, it could be that too much pressure is being applied to the handguard (NOT free-floated on the S&W's in question if memory serves) and sending accuracy to hell. Even with that though...minute of barn at 100yds is unacceptable even for that rifle under those circumstances so something is awry elsewhere. It could be any number of things from a bad barrel (it happens), improper setup of the barrel (bad chamber or crown, improperly installed/torqued down with the bbl nut), etc.

If that many shooters have tried shooting it and getting identically poor results, I think it is at least somewhat safe to say that it is the rifle and S&W should inspect/repair/return it without issue (in a perfect world anyway).

 

[tomcat mv]

S&W will make this right, guaranteed.

Definitely. I have several S&W guns and have had to send a couple back. Their CS is top notch.

 

[gunfreak101]

I think the barrel is bent. Lol

 

[pmclaine]

Id figure a bent barrel could be adjusted for with windage or elevation corrections, its more like this barrel is made of rubber.

S&W contacted and they have responded. Im sure it will be taken care of.

Thank you all for your thoughts. Helped me to know we didnt overlook the obvious.

 

[cjlane]

I had a S&W ORC about two years ago and had the exact same results. Shots were ALL over the place. Got rid of it and moved on, and wont buy another.