SAC And 419 Dies

[Chris1972]

I’ve been experimenting with different styles of dies for a while out of curiosity and have worked my way to these two. I’ve yet to buy them and wanted some input from here before I do.

Is one of these dies better than the other, and is either of them worth the squeeze?

I’m leaning towards the SAC because of how modular it is. One die would cover two cartridges I load for regularly. Plus the suggestion that it will not have the potential donut that I’m subject to get from my Redding Competition bushing die.

 

[HemiPowrd]

I have both. I like the SAC dies better. The A419 die I have for 6.5 CM seems to size the neck too far down on my Lapua brass and needs a good bit of force to drag the mandrell back through the case neck even when lubed. What I like about the SAC die is you can choose the neck size you need and it works much more smoothly. They both do a good job of sizing so either one works well for its purpose.

 

[Dogtown]

The SAC dies are really pricey, but I think totally worth it. The neck/shoulder bushing design works really well, and the modular nature actually saves you money if you're loading a family of cartridges. I started with one just to try out about a year ago, and now I'm slowly but surely replacing all of my trusty Redding dies with the SAC dies. I

 

[HemiPowrd]

The SAC dies are really pricey, but I think totally worth it. The neck/shoulder bushing design works really well, and the modular nature actually saves you money if you're loading a family of cartridges. I started with one just to try out about a year ago, and now I'm slowly but surely replacing all of my trusty Redding dies with the SAC dies. I

Really expensive until you compare them to the A419 dies!

 

[Painterbolt]

I’ve had both dies as well, my area 419 dasher die is smooth and works perfect my BR die I worry I’m going to get a case stuck eventually. I don’t think either die is producing better ammo. I actually sent my br die back to get looked at, hoping it comes back working like my dasher die. My only complaint with the sac die is I had to back mine up a good bit from the shell holder to get the shoulder bump right.

 

[Chris1972]

It looks like the SAC is the choice of the day. I’ll be ordering it with a bushing for the 7-08.

If I like it I’ll order one for the .260 as well but I’m thinking I’m not going to like how you have to change the die to bump the shoulder correctly when you change calibers. We will see, the 419 Zero modular shell holder kit may make this as easy as changing a shell holder, if that’s the case it’s a win for sure.

 

[Painterbolt]

I had the area 419 shell holder kit and I still had to back off from that

 

[Chris1972]

Damn. Maybe that’s a concession SAC makes to make the die more versatile.

 

[DairyDictator]

I had the area 419 shell holder kit and I still had to back off from that

Your chamber may have been cut long, or it could be die related. I use the -2 shell plate in my 419 set and a thou shim in a SAC 223 die and I'm barely bumping .002"

 

[Chris1972]

Did you use the supplied shims?

 

[Painterbolt]

Zero shims used.
Possible with the barrel but I use factory AI barrels and factory proof prefit barrels. But regardless the dies produced excellent ammo I just switched to the 419 dies just because it was easier to adjust shoulder bump.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

The neck/shoulder bushing design works really well

This design is what made me want to try this die.

 

[Chris1972]

The die and bushing are on the way. I appreciate all the feedback. I may update this after I get some time with it. Unfortunately it will be here the day before I go back to work.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

The die and bushing are on the way. I appreciate all the feedback. I may update this after I get some time with it. Unfortunately it will be here the day before I go back to work.

Did you order the one with the neck/shoulder bushing?

 

[Chris1972]

Yes, it seems simple, I’m surprised this style bushing hasn’t been explored more.

 

[Chris1972]

Actually it looks like my dumb ass got two identical neck/shoulder bushings. It comes with one and I ordered one. 3 whiskey buying power.

Anyone need a SAC .308 neck bushing for a 7-08 with Lapua brass? Lol

 

[secondofangle2]

There are also WTC custom dies and Treibel for those looking for somewhere to dispose of income

 

[AllenOne1]

And the Cortina Precision sizing die. We have sizing dies running out our, well you know.

 

[secondofangle2]

Wazoo?

 

[avidflyer]

Yes, it seems simple, I’m surprised this style bushing hasn’t been explored more.

Been around for ever…nothing new, and yes I also use the SAC dies… two or three very prominent die makers in the last 30 years have done the same thing. Just another copy of a copy.

 

[NFshooter150]

Really expensive until you compare them to the A419 dies!

Or seem like a value if you compare them to warner tool lol

 

[richthe1]

Is SAC still the choice over the A419 M-Series?

 

[Chris1972]

It is at my house. Just bought another one last week

 

[richthe1]

Thanks for the reply!

In order to decap/resize/mandrel in one step it looks like I’d have to purchase the die ($300), a seperate decapping expander mandrel($90), and the corresponding collet ($25) - so $415 in total, correct?

Any particular reason you went SAC over 419?

 

[Painterbolt]

I’ve had both. Both do the same job equally well. Don’t think either one is better than the other. Adjusting headspace at the top with the area 419 die is a lot easier. I like how with the sac die I control the bushing size where the area 419 you can only adjust the mandrel size.

 

[Chris1972]

It is at my house.

Thanks for the reply!

In order to decap/resize/mandrel in one step it looks like I’d have to purchase the die ($300), a seperate decapping expander mandrel($90), and the corresponding collet ($25) - so $415 in total, correct?

Any particular reason you went SAC over 419?

One shoulder/neck bushing comes either purchase so you can remove that from your total price. My mandrel was $50 but I didn’t get a decapping mandrel. I use a universal decapper.


As to why I’m sure it was sticker shock on the 419. If they were the same price now I would still buy the SAC because I’m happy with the product.

 

[NFshooter150]

I have had some trouble getting the sac bra die to increase the shoulder bump.. I'm using a zero press and the zero shell holders, if I just touch the die to the press ram there is no way I can bump the shoulder back at all I have to have it cam over some

 

[Chris1972]

Did you use the supplied shims as well?

 

[hairy_pineapple588]

It is at my house.


One shoulder/neck bushing comes either purchase so you can remove that from your total price. My mandrel was $50 but I didn’t get a decapping mandrel. I use a universal decapper.


As to why I’m sure it was sticker shock on the 419. If they were the same price now I would still buy the SAC because I’m happy with the product.

So you are using the mandrel with the SAC die?

 

[Chris1972]

Yep

 

[NFshooter150]

I use my bra sac die with the mandrel too and have all 4 thick shims on top

 

[hairy_pineapple588]

I use my bra sac die with the mandrel too and have all 4 thick shims on top

what size mandrel?

 

[CK1.0]

I think I'm going to come out with a $400 pencil to sell to the guys who buy expensive dies.

It'll make way straighter lines than you've ever experienced before and will be able to be sharpened to a sharpness never before achieved with standard No. 2 pencils. You'll never be able to write as good as those who will own my new super pencils unless you get one too, but at the same time, you probably will never be awesome enough to truly appreciate how awesome they are like the rest of the awesome people who will own them and write with them.

A die is a die, if one can't make good ammo with a standard/normal ~$20-100 die maybe they should put the rifle down and pick the fishing pole up.

(...and maybe look up Social Proof, Reactance, and the other known tricks being used to separate fancy rifle fools from their money. As A419, SAC, and more than a few others in this sport clearly have.)

 

[TheOE800]

Do these types of fancy die with mandrel suffice for the dings or out of round necks (e.g. new Lapua) or does one still need a separate mandrel die for those ops?

 

[HemiPowrd]

Do these types of fancy die with mandrel suffice for the dings or out of round necks (e.g. new Lapua) or does one still need a separate mandrel die for those ops?

I've used both the SAC and A419 dies to get out of round or dented necks back to roundness. My main interest in these dies is to reduce the number of steps required to prepare brass. Specifically sizing the brass and neck with a mandrel in a single stroke.

 

[simonp]

I've used both the SAC and A419 dies to get out of round or dented necks back to roundness. My main interest in these dies is to reduce the number of steps required to prepare brass. Specifically sizing the brass and neck with a mandrel in a single stroke.

I have to agree the time saving / step saving is really nice.

 

[hairy_pineapple588]

I've used both the SAC and A419 dies to get out of round or dented necks back to roundness. My main interest in these dies is to reduce the number of steps required to prepare brass. Specifically sizing the brass and neck with a mandrel in a single stroke.

This is my main goal. Do you do the decapping Mandela or non decapping

 

[simonp]

This is my main goal. Do you do the decapping Mandela or non decapping

Personally I recap all my brass with a mighty armory die, anneal, clean then I size.

 

[BuildingConceptsllc]

Personally I recap all my brass with a mighty armory die, anneal, clean then I size.

Yup, me too. I do like the sac die. I've got about every die out there accept the 419 and I do like the sac best but my redding dies work pretty well too, as does the micron. The sac is nice to be able to do the mandrel and shoulder in one step and it's also a touch smoother than others when sizing .

 

[hairy_pineapple588]

Personally I recap all my brass with a mighty armory die, anneal, clean then I size.

I have the mighty armory die. I like this process also. I’m waiting for the .241 mandrel to come back in stock for 6mm.

 

[HemiPowrd]

This is my main goal. Do you do the decapping Mandela or non decapping

I also use a Mighty Armory decapping die to remove primers before I clean the brass. Then I anneal and size. Can't clean the primer pocket if the primer is still in.

 

[Tokay444]

Who cleans primer pockets?

 

[secondofangle2]

I used to think that and then I found they get so dirty that the primers don’t seat evenly

So while I agree in principal, it can be taken to an extreme

 

[Tokay444]

Mine get cleaned to a degree when I tumble the lube off.

 

[Malum Prohibitum]

I think I'm going to come out with a $400 pencil to sell to the guys who buy expensive dies.

It'll make way straighter lines than you've ever experienced before and will be able to be sharpened to a sharpness never before achieved with standard No. 2 pencils. You'll never be able to write as good as those who will own my new super pencils unless you get one too, but at the same time, you probably will never be awesome enough to truly appreciate how awesome they are like the rest of the awesome people who will own them and write with them.

A die is a die, if one can't make good ammo with a standard/normal ~$20-100 die maybe they should put the rifle down and pick the fishing pole up.

(...and maybe look up Social Proof, Reactance, and the other known tricks being used to separate fancy rifle fools from their money. As A419, SAC, and more than a few others in this sport clearly have.)

When is the release date?

Can I get on a wait list or something?

 

[biggershooter]

I think I'm going to come out with a $400 pencil to sell to the guys who buy expensive dies.

It'll make way straighter lines than you've ever experienced before and will be able to be sharpened to a sharpness never before achieved with standard No. 2 pencils. You'll never be able to write as good as those who will own my new super pencils unless you get one too, but at the same time, you probably will never be awesome enough to truly appreciate how awesome they are like the rest of the awesome people who will own them and write with them.

I'll take a case of them.

A die is a die

Not so much. There's functionality and fit & finish, sometimes one goes with the next.

For example, Redding Carbide 9mm dies are so smooth (fit-and-finish) I don't need to lube the cases (functionality). That's a win - it's faster on the prep and no more post-sizing tumbling to remove lube.

SAC dies do the size / mandrel all in one step, which saves time. The different mandrels let me fine-tune neck tension, which I want to do. The different shoulder bushings let me work the brass minimally, which I want to do. The SAC bushing's slightly bigger neck diameter just above the shoulder is how I setup my regular neck bushings on the theory that it better-centres the round. When I was trying dies for a new calibre (6mm GT), the first two brands scratched cases badly and/or marked bullets significantly - the SAC dies do neither.

When decapping with a standard Lee decapper, an annoying percentage of primers stick to the pin and jam the progressive. So I'm acquiring an FW Arms spring-loaded decapper. It costs more, but if it works as advertised it will be worthwhile.

Having said that, there can certainly be diminishing returns and some just nice-looking stuff that is no better than the rough-looking stuff. For example, if someone is just neck sizing, the Lee collet die looks like a great idea. For trimming/deburring/chamfering, I use the Lee Deluxe Power Quick Trim at a small fraction of the cost of a Giraud/Henderson/etc.

(...and maybe look up Social Proof, Reactance, and the other known tricks being used to separate fancy rifle fools from their money. As A419, SAC, and more than a few others in this sport clearly have.)

Agreed. I'm not seeing a significant functionality difference between the Nexus and the Forster Co-Ax. But one of them is much prettier and is the newest thing, so the Nexus is apparently selling as fast as they are made.

 

[HemiPowrd]

Who cleans primer pockets?

I don't get them spotlessly clean, but still want to get most of the carbon out.

 

[Tokay444]

I have the Zero die, and it's terrible.
I had completely eliminated the mandrel step in my process by using a SAC .265" bushing in my Redding die with no expander, with phenomenal results.
I got the A419 die on Black Friday sale when I grabbed their press, and have had to stand on my reloading bench and pull on the handle to ripped the mandrel back through the neck, so that I didn't picky my bench off the ground. I just pin gauged both the A419 sleeve and the SAC bushing with minus pins and nominal pins. The SAC is exactly .265" as marked. a .265- pin goes through with a bearing fit. The neck in the sleeve of the A419 lets the .259- pin start and .258 nominal pin bottoms out.
I'll probably end up either modifying the sleeve, or making my own to accept SAC/Redding bushing to go into the Zero die. There's absolutely no reason to crush the neck down that much just to turn around and rip it back open.

 

[Tokay444]

 

[NFshooter150]

Been around for ever…nothing new, and yes I also use the SAC dies… two or three very prominent die makers in the last 30 years have done the same thing. Just another copy of a copy.

Who has done it? I've never seen it before til SAC