Sidearms & Scatterguns Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

[VTgunner]

I'm looking at these two different thigh rigs as a possible personal purchase.

I've heard Blackhawk had some issues with their holster getting clogged with dirt and being unable to release the pistol, making the holster pointless. I've also heard from some friends who are in the Federal LE side of the house saying the Safarilands are just junk. The one I'm issued in the military seems to work just fine with the Beretta, maybe mine's the exception that proves the rule??

So basically are any of these holsters worth getting? Should I look elsewhere?

 

[Veer_G]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

SERPAs are range toys, nothing more.

 

[smrkovsky]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

I've got two Safariland ASLs, one for a Glock 19 and one for a S&W M&P, and they work great. I've never used a SERPA, but a couple of my buddys run them. My vote would go to the ASL. Mine have never had issues. You can't go wrong with the Safariland.

 

[Nemisis7.62]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

My competition rig is the serpa, my duty rig is the safari. They are both made well however I have to give the serpa the nod for fit and finish. However the button on the side is something you'll have to practice, it dose however put your index right where it belongs along the frame when drawn. IMHO I give the edge Slightly to blackhawk. Either way you need to practice with a thigh rig a lot to get the muscle memory to become second nature. There both worth the money. Hope that helps in some way.

 

[BBJones13]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

Neither. SLS set up like this:
http://www.itstactical.com/gear/secure-your-safariland-6004-for-mid-ride/

 

[operatorj]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

safariland 6004 with the single leg strap gets my vote. Ive used this setup for years and has never failed me yet. ive been in some pretty nasty places and have crawled though woods and fields for hours and never had it come up or clog up with dirt to the point it would not open.

 

[flynlow3]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

I like my safari's They run smooth, they are durable, I wont use any other holster since I got my first one.

 

[KWilson]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: operator j</div><div class="ubbcode-body">safariland 6004 with the single leg strap gets my vote. Ive used this setup for years and has never failed me yet. ive been in some pretty nasty places and have crawled though woods and fields for hours and never had it come up or clog up with dirt to the point it would not open. </div></div>

Can't argue with this. Using the same setup with a Glock 19 and it works a treat.

 

[arkansashntr]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

I have had both and I would go with anything Safariland. Mine was for a Glock 23. The safariland retention took a little getting used to but once you get it down its much smoother than the Blackhawk.

 

[USAFCATM]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

I use nothing but safariland...the serpa should be left for airsofters. There's a known issue with the serpa & the release mechanism, if dirt/snow/mud gets in there it can & does cause it to lockup. I've had several say "well I don't plan on rolling around with it on!" But if you wear/use it you should plan for the worst to happen. Also I have an issue from the training side of using the trigger finger to release the retention that put the finger in line with the trigger. This can/does lead to some bad habits. I've never hand problems with Safariland & have carried one of their holsters for the past 10 years.....

 

[VTgunner]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

Well the general consensus seems to be Safariland. Thanks for the input guys!

 

[operatorj]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

On a side note. I was going thought my yearly defensive tactics and weapon retention class last year and one of my guys was using a Serpa for a Duty holster. The smallest, weakest guy on our department using very little effort completely ripped the holster with gun off the officers belt. The screws that held the Serpa holster to the belt attachment pulled rite thought the belt attachment and he stood there almost in shock that it happened.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

The ALS is a little faster than the SLS (6004). It also re-engages when you re-holster, so you don't need to flip the hood up to have retention... this can be a big deal depending on your job responsibilities.

For duty I would run both (the 6360 level III, the "tactical version" is the 6304/6305), for competition or if you're down with a Level II holsters instead of a Level III then the 6320 or 6354/6355 are the way to go.

The Blackhawk is a piece of shit, so you're on the right path by looking at Safariland.

 

[oakmax]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

Safariland works for me..
Some AD/NDs in the past coming out of the serpa from what I've read.

 

[sw99]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

Safariland ASL user here and after five years of abuse, it's still running strong with zero problems.

 

[BigBoss0311]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

Safariland by far.

 

[Graham]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

Safariland is better, but twice the money. I use a level 3 Serpa for comps, but Serpas can jam-up if you roll in the dirt with them.

 

[224Man]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

I have used the Safariland 6280 SLS for years and wouldn't use anything less.

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

I don't have a dog in the fight, I've never tried the Safariland and I don't roll around on the ground with my Serpa. I do use the Serpa for competition though and it works.

But I will address the Serpa and Safety, regarding it forcing you to put your finger in the trigger guard. That is total bullshit. If your finger goes there, you put it there, don't blame the holster.

I went through this before and made a video on how the Serpa works.

The finger points straight down. As you start to pull the gun from the holster, the finger drags over the release button, which releases the gun. As you pull the gun out, the finger naturaly lays straight along the slide.

Choose what suits you, personally nothing beats the Hoyt I used in LE, but I don't do that any more.

Regardless, if you can't keep your finger out of the trigger guard, its you, not the holster.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/pentest/Serpa%20and%20Beretta%2092FS.AVI

 

[Outsydlooknin75]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

Rip the retention dealy out of the serpa and its not a bad holster .... there is enough retention without it that you dont absolutely have to have it.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I don't have a dog in the fight, I've never tried the Safariland and I don't roll around on the ground with my Serpa. I do use the Serpa for competition though and it works.

But I will address the Serpa and Safety, regarding it forcing you to put your finger in the trigger guard. That is total bullshit. If your finger goes there, you put it there, don't blame the holster.

I went through this before and made a video on how the Serpa works.

The finger points straight down. As you start to pull the gun from the holster, the finger drags over the release button, which releases the gun. As you pull the gun out, the finger naturaly lays straight along the slide.

Choose what suits you, personally nothing beats the Hoyt I used in LE, but I don't do that any more.

Regardless, if you can't keep your finger out of the trigger guard, its you, not the holster.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/pentest/Serpa%20and%20Beretta%2092FS.AVI</div></div>

If it's total bullshit then why are multiple ranges, organizations, facilities and trainers banning them?

The list includes (yet not limited to):
Gunsight (highly discouraged)
Larry Vickers
Vickers Regional Endorsed Instructors
Kyle Defoor
FLETC is looking at a ban
Todd Green
USAF OSI

Bunch of amatuers I guess, who don't know what good equipment looks like, huh?

 

[Johnny Lately]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

Where does everyone order their Safriland gear from?

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it's total bullshit then why are multiple ranges, organizations, facilities and trainers banning them?</div></div>

I suppose its because they let idiots on their ranges.

The Serpa does not force you to poke your finger into the trigger guard, you do that, its you, not the holster.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it's total bullshit then why are multiple ranges, organizations, facilities and trainers banning them?</div></div>

I suppose its because they let idiots on their ranges.

The Serpa does not force you to poke your finger into the trigger guard, you do that, its you, not the holster.

</div></div>

The design of the holster directly contributes to the alarming amount of ND's experienced with it. No other holster on the market has the rate of ND's that this one does. I consider this a clue.

Using your trigger finger to push inwards toward the trigger guard is a foolish release mechanism that's just asking for trouble.

Multiple experienced shooters (including DHS instructional staff and officers) have experienced it with this holster, as have LEO's all over the country as well.

I guess you don't use external safeties on any firearms either, as anyone who puts their finger on the trigger is an idiot, so there's no need for them, right?

Can you find me a single ND with a Safariland ALS or SLS holster?

Just google "serpa discharge" and see how many hits you get. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there's a pattern here...


http://m4carbine.net/showthread.php?p=1222523#post1222523

http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/7920/Serpa-ND-Again-California?page=1#.TzHoPoHYHXg

http://floridaconcealedcarry.com/Forum/s...-march-in-CFRPC

http://www.northwestfirearms.com/general...-discharge.html

http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=16813.0

http://boloreport.com/officer-safety-bulletin-blackhawk-serpa-auto-lock-system-holster

http://idpaforum.yuku.com/topic/7803/Serpa-holster-safety-issues#.TzHqMYHYHXg

http://www.wwlp.com/dpp/news/local/hampden/Firearms-instructor-shoots-self-at-S&W

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?1569-Banning-the-SERPA&p=36323&viewfull=1#post36323

http://idpaforum.yuku.com/reply/59628/Serpa-holster-safety-issues-#reply-59628

http://idpaforum.yuku.com/reply/59633/Serpa-holster-safety-issues-#reply-59633

http://idpaforum.yuku.com/reply/59651/Serpa-holster-safety-issues-#reply-59651

http://idpaforum.yuku.com/reply/64514/Serpa-holster-safety-issues-#reply-64514

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Using your trigger finger to push inwards toward the trigger guard is a foolish release mechanism that's just asking for trouble.</div></div>

To activate the release of the Serpa DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO POKE YOUR FINGER INTO THE RELEASE.

All you have to do is slide your finger over the release.

But assuming you did "poke the button" as you slide the gun out of the holster your finger comes off the button and slides along the holster causing it to straighten out again and fall alone the slide or cylinder NOT INTO THE TRIGGER GUARD.

I don't know about the Safariland, haven't used it.

Sure there are "experenced" people having accidents. It happens all the time. BUT no one has an accident that causes phyical injury or property damage if the FOUR simple firearm safety rules are followed. The one we are discussing is keeping your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire.

I posted a video on how the Serpa works using a semi auto, I also did one using the revolver. It works the same way, your trigger finger drags over the release, then drags up the remainder part of the holster and falls under the cylinder. (Slide in the other video).

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/pentest/Serpa%20and%20revolver.AVI

If an old man like me can get the gun out of the hoster without shooting myself in the ass, a younger more flexable person should have no problems.

I'm not saying the Serpa is better then the Safariland, I don't know. What I'm saying is the Serpa does not force you to poke your finger in the trigger guard.

It's a poor man who blames his screw up on equipment.

 

[Jim_D303]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: kraigWY</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Using your trigger finger to push inwards toward the trigger guard is a foolish release mechanism that's just asking for trouble.</div></div>

To activate the release of the Serpa DOES NOT REQUIRE YOU TO POKE YOUR FINGER INTO THE RELEASE.

All you have to do is slide your finger over the release.

<span style="font-weight: bold">But assuming you did "poke the button" as you slide the gun out of the holster your finger comes off the button and slides along the holster causing it to straighten out again and fall alone the slide or cylinder NOT INTO THE TRIGGER GUARD.</span>

I don't know about the Safariland, haven't used it.

Sure there are "experenced" people having accidents. It happens all the time. BUT no one has an accident that causes phyical injury or property damage if the FOUR simple firearm safety rules are followed. The one we are discussing is keeping your finger off the trigger until you're ready to fire.

I posted a video on how the Serpa works using a semi auto, I also did one using the revolver. It works the same way, your trigger finger drags over the release, then drags up the remainder part of the holster and falls under the cylinder. (Slide in the other video).

http://photos.imageevent.com/kraigwy/pentest/Serpa%20and%20revolver.AVI

If an old man like me can get the gun out of the hoster without shooting myself in the ass, a younger more flexable person should have no problems.

I'm not saying the Serpa is better then the Safariland, I don't know. What I'm saying is the Serpa does not force you to poke your finger in the trigger guard.

It's a poor man who blames his screw up on equipment.



</div></div>

That's your opinion, and likely your experience, however everyone's hand and holster position is different.

With the fingertip curled, it is VERY easy for it to enter the trigger guard. I've demonstrated this to folks, watched it happen while I was the RO on a range, and all of the incidents above are evidence of the occurrence.

There is a reason that people who've been shooting for <span style="text-decoration: underline">years</span> with fantastic trigger finger discipline, suddenly experience a loud noise while using this holster. If you think these events would have happened with a different holster... why aren't they?

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/1128622_.html&page=1

 

[kraigWY]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">With the fingertip curled</div></div>

Yeap that's the problem, "curled instead of straight" I can see the screw up.

Its the shooter that "curls" his trigger finger.

 

[Vereor]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

The ALS is quite simply the best retention holster on the market.

 

[BigDTexas68]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

I think both holsters are good to go. Have used both on duty with no problems. I've been in Federal LE for 18 years. The last 10yrs as a firearm instructor. My agency has been using the Serpa (glock 23) for the last five years with no problems.

We have tried replicating the problem of a ND with the Serpa. (unloaded of course) I can see how it can happen but it is the shooter who induces the problem. But, it can be done with any holster. You have to aggressively jam your finger into the trigger guard and be squeezing the trigger at the same time as you come out of the holster. So, depending on how light your trigger is set (could be the cause?) and how fast you are trying to get that first shot off anything could happen with any holster.

Instinctively we should be indexing our finger along the slide. Hence the design of the Serpa. Even with the Safariland your finger is indexed along the side and you are pushing in on the holster.

Everyone wants to be lightning fast out of the holster. I think the problem is not knowing our limitations. (sounding like Clint Eastwood

) It all comes down to training and range time. Again, I think both holsters are excellent choices. Just choose one that works for you.

I am not trying to defend the Serpa or bash Safariland or vice versa. Just giving some insight from hands on personal experience.

Stay safe!

 

[VTgunner]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

Well my big thing about Safariland is I'll be able to use my TLR-1's with it whereas I can't with the SERPA I currently have for my 226. So with all other things considered even I would go with Safariland just because it'll fit the gear I have

 

[BigDTexas68]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: VTgunner</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well my big thing about Safariland is I'll be able to use my TLR-1's with it whereas I can't with the SERPA I currently have for my 226. So with all other things considered even I would go with Safariland just because it'll fit the gear I have </div></div>

Have to agree VTgunner. Blackhawk forces you to use their production light only for there holsters.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

To beat a dead horse a little, I also think the Serpa is asking for an ND.

I am not ok with having to use my trigger finger to push a button to release my weapon. I bought an HK USP (first mistake!) that came with a Serpa. After playing with it a bit, I threw it in the garbage...didn't even want to get $30 out of it - and put some other poor sap have an ND.

It takes CONSCIOUS effort to keep your finger away from the trigger with them. I'm sure, if God came down and commanded I use a Serpa, Id get used to it.

Until then, I won't use one.

Also, just because ranges/clubs/facilities are banning them, doesn't in-and-of itself indicate they're bad. Several cities have banned handguns, and many others would love to - that doesn't indicate handguns are "bad"

 

[Tact.medic]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

I used both of them and I like my Blackhawk. I'm pissed that I have to buy a new one for the M9a1! The Safari I was issued for the M9a1 was used and the bail sucked ass. After a couple of fustrating days at the range, I decided to take it apart (didn't know it was supplied with an allen wrench) and commensed to AP brush the shit out of it, and added some CLP to the moving parts-works almost like new...

I still like the blackhawk, but refuse to buy another unless I sell my M9 holsters...

 

[desertrat1979]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

Safariland 6001 for me. Standard hood reention system. I was told to learn weapon retention, dont need all the buttons levers and switches that are on some of these. Its fast and simple, practice, and realize that the shooter puts the finger on, not the holster. I have never seen a safariland jam or break, and thats after some real hard use in the desert. Something about the button on a serpa doesnt make it comfortable to draw. The hood seems quicker to work. I just cant force myself to get into using 2 other retention devices on the other safarilands.

 

[tactic-als]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemisis7.62</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My competition rig is the serpa, my duty rig is the safari. They are both made well however I have to give the serpa the nod for fit and finish. However the button on the side is something you'll have to practice, it dose however put your index right where it belongs along the frame when drawn. IMHO I give the edge Slightly to blackhawk. Either way you need to practice with a thigh rig a lot to get the muscle memory to become second nature. There both worth the money. Hope that helps in some way.</div></div>

WHAT are you smoking?..."Give the nod to the Serpa for fit and finish" The Safariland blows the Serpa away in fit and finish...no question. Also, the ALS has a very natural release mechanism when you reach for the pistol. The Safariland is the hands down winner between the two.

 

[ACE31!]

Re: Safariland ALS vs Blackhawk SERPA thigh rigs

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tactic-als</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Nemisis7.62</div><div class="ubbcode-body">My competition rig is the serpa, my duty rig is the safari. They are both made well however I have to give the serpa the nod for fit and finish. However the button on the side is something you'll have to practice, it dose however put your index right where it belongs along the frame when drawn. IMHO I give the edge Slightly to blackhawk. Either way you need to practice with a thigh rig a lot to get the muscle memory to become second nature. There both worth the money. Hope that helps in some way.</div></div>

WHAT are you smoking?..."Give the nod to the Serpa for fit and finish" The Safariland blows the Serpa away in fit and finish...no question. Also, the ALS has a very natural release mechanism when you reach for the pistol. The Safariland is the hands down winner between the two. </div></div>

Amen, I have carried the ALS for 4 years now on duty and not one issue. Love the thing.

Serpa's = Possible Negligent Discharge, ever time ya turn around there is a LE safety bulletin on Serpa problems.