Just curious if the rules for prs/nrl require a trigger with a safety? Everything is bolt back and have never used the safety at a match in the past.
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PRS Talk Safety on the trigger a requirement?
- Thread starter Bravo6niner
- Start date
idk if its in the rules for PRS/NRL but ive never used, or been required to use my safety once in a match since 2013
only major matches im aware of that require functioning safeties are the Competition Dynamics i believe
only major matches im aware of that require functioning safeties are the Competition Dynamics i believe
Not sure on the official rules but all the matches I have shot this year started with "bolt back, mag in and safety on" including the Pigg River PRS match a couple weeks ago. Some were "bolt closed on empty chamber, mag in and safety on"It's a smart move to have a safety on your rifle. Would suck to go to a match and not be able to shoot.
Ya I’m like you and lean towards better to have and not need, than the other way around. I seen a trigger in the Px I was interested in. It was a no safety version and that is what got me to thinking about this. The few matches I’ve been to I’ve never need/used the safety. It was always bolt back type of deal.
I don’t see what advantages not having a safety gives you. Mag in, bolt back and safety on makes sense to me.
Gamers be needin' that extra 2 millisecond advantage on the clock
to not flick the thumb
No not really looking at it for a “gaming” purpose. There is a trigger on the px with no safety that was priced right and the matches I’ve been to have never been bolt back, safety on. Been to a handful of matches last few years and have never used a safety. Don’t close the bolt till your ready to shoot type of deal.
Few guys posting that some matches require a safety so I’ll keep looking for a trigger with a safety.
People actually engage safety on/off at matches?
Not having my safety on cost me a DQ at Peacemaker PRS a couple years ago due to numb fingers mixed in with a little stupidity. Was an expensive mistake when you add up all the gas and food and hotels etc....
That's what I was thinking. The safety on my match rifle and the safety on my O/U shotgun both have never been put back on after the first time I took it off. Well, I did have to put it back on for my O/U once because the first time I took it off I selected the wrong barrel to shoot first. My cousin put the safety on my rifle once when I took him out shooting with me, but that's it I suppose.
I haven't encountered a match where I was required to use it, but I can't say I'd be inconvenienced any if they did. I treat the bolt as my safety (open and back until I'm on target) so it wouldn't be any extra hassle to just stick my thumb down and push on the safety when I'm already pushing the bolt forwards anyways.
It doesn't get in the way for me and I suppose there might be matches where it's required, so I would say it's probably worth it to just buy a trigger with a safety from the get-go. It's not like having the safety will ever hurt you (besides waiting a little bit longer to find the perfect trigger perhaps).
FYI, There are some cases where the stock may not allow the use of a trigger safety. Case in point, some of the Elesio chassis stocks. There are plenty of match rifles that I have owned that do not come with safeties . Barnard Model P is an example I can think of at the moment that does not come with a safety.
-TH
-TH
I believe gassers have to use safety when transitioning. I don't recall having to ever use the safety on a bolt... But there are some well trained individuals I see who use their safety regularly and it looks to be muscle memory for them.People actually engage safety on/off at matches?
Wow, I'm glad to actually see this discussed on a forum. I mean, a mechanical safety, what a novel idea, right?
When did a mechanical safety on a bolt action rifle become optional equipment? Asking for a friend....
Tell me, what's the difference between an auto-loading rifle shooter needing to positively engage and disengage a safety to move and a bolt gun? Pretty sure they're both RIFLES, so if anyone wants to jump in and help me out understanding this tom-fuckery I'd love to hear it.
When did a mechanical safety on a bolt action rifle become optional equipment? Asking for a friend....
Tell me, what's the difference between an auto-loading rifle shooter needing to positively engage and disengage a safety to move and a bolt gun? Pretty sure they're both RIFLES, so if anyone wants to jump in and help me out understanding this tom-fuckery I'd love to hear it.
that rule is used where they dont require the gas gun shooter to move with an empty chamber...they move hot on a chambered round
but they require the bolt gun to move empty and bolt back
why the gas gun can move hot on safety, but the bolt guns cant...thats a question for whoever made up those rules, but thats how every match ive been to with gas gun rules ran it
rifles only makes gas and bolt guns go empty/mag out/bolt back on any moving
but they require the bolt gun to move empty and bolt back
why the gas gun can move hot on safety, but the bolt guns cant...thats a question for whoever made up those rules, but thats how every match ive been to with gas gun rules ran it
rifles only makes gas and bolt guns go empty/mag out/bolt back on any moving
I get all that, but my question still remains unanswered.
When did it become commonplace to not utilize a mechanical safety on a bolt action rifle, and what's the difference between an auto-loading rifle and a bolt-action rifle with regard to one weapon's mechanical safety being adequate protection to move with a round in the chamber and the other's not?
That’s a question for the old heads cause when I started matches in 2013...that’s how they ran gas guns then and still do
I came from hunting where carrying either type on safety was common when a shot opportunity was likely to occur. all my rifle’s have functioning safeties, but I’ve only ever had to use the ones on the gas guns during matches
I came from hunting where carrying either type on safety was common when a shot opportunity was likely to occur. all my rifle’s have functioning safeties, but I’ve only ever had to use the ones on the gas guns during matches
the difference between an auto-loading rifle and a bolt-action rifle with regard to adequate protection to move with a round in the chamber is that the gas-gun DOES have a round in the chamber and a mechanical safety is used whereas the bolt-action DOES NOT have a round in the chamber and is verified by leaving the bolt back.
-TH
I’ve been fucked up the first stage of a match because my safety got accidentally put on I run with bolt open chamber blocks in. I have run a gas gun also and moving with live round in the chamber is completely different honestly it’s much safer the way we run bolt guns I have had gas guns with real loose safeties
Likely when rifles without a 3 position safety started becoming common.
On most 2 position safeties, you have to choose between bolt back or safety on.
As an RO, bolt back is universal and can been see from a safe distance.
Safety on is different for almost every gun.
Also for competition, what if all the top trigger/rifle makers start selling stuff without safeties,
Do you ban them all from competition?
Think about glocks for the handgun world, no eternal safety, but they are legal cause they were the most common handgun at the time of production and ssp divisions being introduced.
Edit:
Forgot to answer your second question.
Like stated above, auto loaders have a live round in the chamber with the hammer cocked.
Huge safety issue if the safety fails or the rifle is dropped.
Most safeties only lock the trigger, such as AR’s where it does nothing to lock the hammer or the sear.
Meaning a slightly worn out sear is a drop risk, with or without the safety on.
No way a bolt gun will go off accidentally with an empty chamber and the bolt back.
False, it's got nothing to do with 2 position or 3 position safeties. In fact, a 3 position safety is in place to prevent the bolt from lifting, keeping the operating system free of debris when operating in environments other than a groomed firing line. It's not uncommon for people to move with a live round in the chamber with a 3 position safety engaged.
False, I can open my bolt with the mechanical safety engaged on every single one of my actions, only a 3 position safety prevents the bolt from being opened, unless there's some other whiz-bang product out there I haven't been exposed to yet.
False, the safety on (a mechanical device) is the same for every weapon system, provided that it was designed properly with the intention of blocking the sear from being released. An RO you should be looking for safe weapons handling skills first, such as muzzle awareness and the shooter keeping their weapon on mechanical safe and their finger straight and off the trigger until they intend to fire. (Two of the four firearms safety rules, nothing new here.)
Before this PRS game morphed into what it is today, the ONLY bolt action rifles that didn't have safeties in the competitive world were from bench rest guns because the rifle weighed nearly 30 lbs and wasn't intended to be moved once it was laid on the bench.
If I were running an event, and you don't have a mechanical safety on your rifle it's not safe. Period. This is the problem; guys thinking that it's acceptable to run a rifle without a mechanical safety in ANY form of practical application, which in my eyes practical is defined as anything other than benchrest shooting or F-Class. This is that whole "progression without forgetting where you came from" thing.
False, Glocks do in fact have a mechanical safety. Even though it's passive, it's still there and will prevent the pistol from firing without the finger (or something that represents a finger) intentionally pressing the trigger. I carry a Glock every day, condition 1, appendix carry with a trigger guard holster, the same way literally tens of thousands of people do.
I'm a combat veteran (nothing special at all, just stating this for context) and I carried 3 loaded weapons EVERY DAY for 7 months among at least a thousand other Marines. No safeties failed, and no rifles "went off" when dropped. Let's be realistic here and not live in the mysterious land of what ifs. Many people after me did the same thing without issue, and continue to do so. They're successful because they learned the firearms safety rules properly up front, and they're held accountable for their actions.
Think about what you're saying here, and perhaps then you'll be able to see my point.
There is NO difference between a gas gun having a live round chambered and the weapon's mechanical safety engaged and a bolt action rifle having a live round in the chamber with the rifle's mechanical safety engaged. They're both firearms. Why we treat them differently now is a result of community inbreeding with the mindset that a mechanical safety on a bolt action rifle being unnecessary. Again, this is the result of progression and forgetting where we came from.
A mechanical safety on ANY firearm is only an enabler. If someone thinks is a disabler, then they're not properly trained in the firearms safety rules. A mechanical safety is simply another added layer of protection. But in this competitive shooting world of today, everyone seems to turn their noses at a safety because the institution as a whole has gone to the mantra of "bolt back" as the ultimate savior.
We simply acquiesce to the gas gun shooters to move from position to position with the mechanical safety engaged because of the time-consuming hassle it is to conduct an admin unload before moving from one position to the next.
This is my point. Don't be hypocritical when it comes to safety. If the mechanical safety is a sufficient layer of protection for a gas gun shooter to move from one position to another simply because it's time consuming (and honestly super stupid from a practical sense) to completely unload a rifle, then why make a bolt gun shooter do it? The two platforms aren't any different. They're both rifles.
anyone ever seen a gas gun go bang from flipping the safety off? i havent, curious tho?
ive seen it happen plenty on bolt guns...and not just ones with tweaked out triggers...common factory guns out of the boxes
thats all it would take for one guy movin in a match and flip his safety off and drop the pin for that to cause thread mess on the internet
ive seen it happen plenty on bolt guns...and not just ones with tweaked out triggers...common factory guns out of the boxes
thats all it would take for one guy movin in a match and flip his safety off and drop the pin for that to cause thread mess on the internet
Slam fires occurred as a result of poorly built Remington triggers, AND improper maintenance practices regarding the trigger itself.
Show me a bolt action rifle with a trigger mechanism that hasn't been fucked with by the user who has no business fucking with it have a slam fire in the last decade or more.
You ALL know where I'm going with this and I'm not here to argue semantics because the instances you're referring to are isolated, and likely the end user is the problem. There's plenty of people out there that do dumb shit with AR's too. I'm here to prove the point that those that see it's acceptable for an AR shooter to move a rifle relying on a mechanical safety, then it should be good enough for bolt gun guys too.
Besides, if you're adhering to the firearms safety rules to begin with you shouldn't be disenaging your mechanical safety until you're ready to fire anyway.
Nope, wasn’t the case in all the instances I’ve seen and they weren’t even all remingtons
Re-read what I wrote
run matches with bolt guns moving on safe, no one is stopping u and I’m sure people will show up
go around telling MDs how to run their matches and they’ll tell you to leave if u don’t like it
Re-read what I wrote
run matches with bolt guns moving on safe, no one is stopping u and I’m sure people will show up
go around telling MDs how to run their matches and they’ll tell you to leave if u don’t like it
I'm not going to argue with someone who's refusing to see the facts and the core point.
You do you bruh.?
I was never arguing anything, just pointing out what was and is
push your opinion, just know not everyone cares about it
push your opinion, just know not everyone cares about it
I can see rules being used in games (competition) as opposed to real life in the jungle/sand.
I've had a Game Officer (RO) have me pull my 1911 so he could SEE the safety.
(he was a Glock guy)
After a couple times I would verbalize "Click" when holstering. Seemed to make him happy.
I used a No-Gas AR in a little run and gun. Just a friendly Comp, nothing official.
RO was positioned to observe the safety before a MOVE.
A No-gas AR has a spent case in the chamber.
You need to chamber a round in order to put the safety on.
Moving with the safety off and a spent case was probably safer but chambering and going "Safe" was easier for others around me.
I've had a Game Officer (RO) have me pull my 1911 so he could SEE the safety.
(he was a Glock guy)
After a couple times I would verbalize "Click" when holstering. Seemed to make him happy.
I used a No-Gas AR in a little run and gun. Just a friendly Comp, nothing official.
RO was positioned to observe the safety before a MOVE.
A No-gas AR has a spent case in the chamber.
You need to chamber a round in order to put the safety on.
Moving with the safety off and a spent case was probably safer but chambering and going "Safe" was easier for others around me.
@CaylenW Now I see your question was rhetorical
Im not going to argue politics about rules,
I dont make them,
I just follow them cause I want to shoot matches.
To answer a few of your questions:
1. 2 position safety that locks the bolt
- All Tikka's lock the bolt with the safety on, and you can't engage the safety with the bolt open
2. You want to keep practical shooting practical, got it
- this is basically what caused IDPA to form after IPSC/USPSA
- no issue from me, but, it's not really competition friendly
- think about it this way,
some of us(not all), want to shoot competition with a competition mindset(and everything else for that matter).
meaning, hit as many targets as possible within the given time.(edit: as safely as possible as well)
we have no intention of doing the same thing in the real world.
same for all other firearm competitions.
3. Glocks do not have an external safety
- external and mechanical are two different things
- no argument
4. Gas gun chambered round + safety on = bolt gun chambered round + safety on
- ok, now I see your issue
- as a USPSA shooter, I'm ok(me personally) with what you are saying,
but, big but. Not until the rules are enforced more strictly in PRS/NRL type events and RO's are better trained
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