SAKO TRG 22 .308 Barrel condition

[Snek123]

Hi,

I became the new owner of a TRG 22 rifle in .308 win caliber.

I was curious and who is curious sometimes learns a lot...
I was a little concerned about the image of what I saw in the bore using my friend's borescope.

A professional in the field looked at the gun with me and more or less confirmed that the rifle appears to have been fired to about 500 rounds, as the seller claimed...

Anyway, eventhough me being a novice, I didn't really like how the bore looked much, the other rifles that I had the opportunity to compare mostly looked better and had fewer of these "defects".
In my gun, it is almost all over the surface of the barrel. I expected that there would be some signs of wear, something like so-called "fire cracking" within a few inches of the chamber, which should be normal, but I haven't seen much of this anywhere.
What is it? A friend who looked into the bore said that it was simply a normal manufacturing defect and that it could not have been caused by anything during shooting, cleaning, etc. So it must have been like that since the factory!

FOR THE FULL VIDEO:

Thanks!

 

[nn8734]

How does it shoot?

 

[Snek123]

How does it shoot?

Haven't tried. I am not a big shooter myself, this is my first LR rifle. I am yet to buy a scope for it. But the seller claimed it shoots perfectly fine and can hit small coin size targets at 220 yards distance

 

[nn8734]

Haven't tried. I am not a big shooter myself, this is my first LR rifle. I am yet to buy a scope for it. But the seller claimed it shoots perfectly fine and can hit small coin size targets at 220 yards distance

I’d give it a thorough cleaning then run some federal gold medal match through it to see if it groups. If it does, then your gtg…if not, I’d try some other match ammo or develop a load using known good components for 308…if it still doesn’t perform, and you rule everything else out, I’d condemn the barrel and stick a new one on it.

If it’s only got 500 rounds through the bore, it’s just barely been broke in.

 

[Snek123]

I’d give it a thorough cleaning then run some federal gold medal match through it to see if it groups. If it does, then your gtg…if not, I’d try some other match ammo or develop a load using known good components for 308…if it still doesn’t perform, and you rule everything else out, I’d condemn the barrel and stick a new one on it.

If it’s only got 500 rounds through the bore, it’s just barely been broke in.

Yeah sounds good, I definitely need to try the gun and see how it performs, I expect it to perform well and hopefully it will... anyway... judging from the pictures... What does it look like to you? What do you think it is and how it got there? Could it have been there since the gun was produced??

 

[nn8734]

Yeah sounds good, I definitely need to try the gun and see how it performs, but I expect it to perform well. But anyway. Judging from the pictures... What does it look like to you? What do you think it is and how it got there? Could it have been there since the gun was produced??

It looks like a used barrel to me. Beyond that, unless i see some really obvious problems like burrs or other things that would lead me to believe the gun isn’t safe to fire, I’d move on to shooting it. Don’t worry about how it looks once it had rounds on it beyond that…Sako TRGs are awesome rifles and this one should be no different.

 

[enichols]

That rifle is obviously defective. There is absolutely nothing you can do to get it to shoot well, ever. You can send that clearly worthless rifle to me for proper disposal - I'll even pay the shipping costs.












I kid, I kid. I have no idea what those marks inside your barrel are or how they got there, but I agree with @nn8734 - get some good match ammo and see how the rifle actually shoots before you worry about it.
Congratulations on the TRG - they are fantastic guns.

 

[jbell]

I know you don’t want to hear this but my money would be on it is pitting from rust. I purchased a used TRG years ago that the bore had rust in and after cleaning it there was similar pitting. It shot well enough, but not as good as the 5 or so other TRGs that I have owned. Saco uses chromoly barrels and they will rust much faster than a stainless barrel (which will also rust).

As said I would just shoot it and see how it does. If you do end up replacing it I have good luck with the PVA, if they still offer a “prefit” if not any gunsmith can chamber you one up.

 

[perttime]

When you get to shooting it, note that the first rounds from a "thoroughly cleaned barrel" aren't usually best for accuracy.

 

[VargmatII]

It seems to me that a lot of barrels looks like shit when you bore scope them. But it also seems that most of them shoot just fine, if not great. So I would not be too worried and I would let the target tell me the condition of the barrel, rather than a bore scope.

My TRG 22 has had just under 2500 rounds through it since I got it. Dont know how many before me, but I guess less than 1000. I dont bore scope it, I clean it every now and again and it looks good enough, and the best part is that it shoots great. I keep it on a steady diet of Lapua Scenar L and SMK, both of the 175 grain flavour. I suggest you do the same.

 

[jbell]

It seems to me that a lot of barrels looks like shit when you bore scope them. But it also seems that most of them shoot just fine, if not great. So I would not be too worried and I would let the target tell me the condition of the barrel, rather than a bore scope.

My TRG 22 has had just under 2500 rounds through it since I got it. Dont know how many before me, but I guess less than 1000. I dont bore scope it, I clean it every now and again and it looks good enough, and the best part is that it shoots great. I keep it on a steady diet of Lapua Scenar L and SMK, both of the 175 grain flavour. I suggest you do the same.

Very true, bore scopes sell more barrels than anything else… ha!

 

[Snek123]

When you get to shooting it, note that the first rounds from a "thoroughly cleaned barrel" aren't usually best for accuracy.

Hello, what are you trying to imply with this, please?

 

[spife7980]

Hello, what are you trying to imply with this, please?

He isnt implying anything. The rounds dragging over squeeky clean metal will be experiencing a progressively different bore surface condition until a sufficient layer of fouling has been laid down that will remain the consistent for the rest of the bullets to follow.

If you have 300 rounds and the first 5 are in a clean bore and the following 295 are in a dirty bore, those first 5 are going to act differently than the rest of the batch of ammo.

 

[VargmatII]

He isnt implying anything. The rounds dragging over squeeky clean metal will be experiencing a progressively different bore surface condition until a sufficient layer of fouling has been laid down that will remain the consistent for the rest of the bullets to follow.

If you have 300 rounds and the first 5 are in a clean bore and the following 295 are in a dirty bore, those first 5 are going to act differently than the rest of the batch of ammo.

This is true. My TRG usually is fine with 2 or 3 shots after cleaning, but 5 never hurt anyone.

 

[perttime]

Yep. A few rounds worth of copper "fouling" in the barrel generally gives a more smooth and consistent bore.

I have no claim to fame in rifle shooting - but people seem to get best results when they do not remove copper all the time. It is best to remove it only when it starts affecting accuracy. I suppose you'll want to remove the carbon/soot after shooting, but it is a more gentle job than removing the copper.

 

[2/10 SPOL]

My TRG in 260 has the same pattern of holes or pitting you are asking about. I think it´s caused by the hammer forging process. If you try to stuff blue tac into a bottle cap you are not likely to get a perfect print of the inside. There will likely be a similar pattern.

 

[Snek123]

My TRG in 260 has the same pattern of holes or pitting you are asking about. I think it´s caused by the hammer forging process. If you try to stuff blue tac into a bottle cap you are not likely to get a perfect print of the inside. There will likely be a similar pattern.

Well, that sounds really interesting then... Would like to hear anyone else's opinion about this theory then!

 

[deadly0311]

Well, that sounds really interesting then... Would like to hear anyone else's opinion about this theory then!

It’s from the hammer forging process. Bore scopes in untrained hands lead to more nonexistent issues being thought up. I’d bet your rifle shoots just fine and it’s nothing to worry about.

 

[Snek123]

He isnt implying anything. The rounds dragging over squeeky clean metal will be experiencing a progressively different bore surface condition until a sufficient layer of fouling has been laid down that will remain the consistent for the rest of the bullets to follow.

If you have 300 rounds and the first 5 are in a clean bore and the following 295 are in a dirty bore, those first 5 are going to act differently than the rest of the batch of ammo.

Ok and what is your opinion of my barrel please?

 

[spife7980]

Ok and what is your opinion of my barrel please?

I have none and my opinion wouldn’t matter anyways. Shoot it and find out.

 

[37L1]

Go look at a Savage barrel then yours will look like it's perfect.

Just shoot it, you'll be fine.

 

[Snek123]

Could it have anything to do with the rifle shooting mostly or only factory Moly coated bullets?

 

[moosemeat]

Did it only shoot moly coated bullets?
Really, just shoot it. That barrel doesn't look horrible. It's a 260 anyways, it will be done in soon enough.
The pitting can be caused by the hammer forging process but doubtful. It looks like corrosion or something, but I would give zero shits. I've never met a TRG that wasn't a .5 moa gun.

 

[Snek123]

Did it only shoot moly coated bullets?
Really, just shoot it. That barrel doesn't look horrible. It's a 260 anyways, it will be done in soon enough.
The pitting can be caused by the hammer forging process but doubtful. It looks like corrosion or something, but I would give zero shits. I've never met a TRG that wasn't a .5 moa gun.

it's 308 win, what do you mean. It should have fired about 400 rounds yet. And Ive heard of people who have fired over 6000 rounds thru same barrels without any significant accuracy declination

 

[moosemeat]

it's 308 win, what do you mean. It should have fired about 400 rounds yet. And Ive heard of people who have fired over 6000 rounds thru same barrels without any significant accuracy declination

Sorry got it confused with SPOLs. Still, go shoot it. Does it look like a Bartlien? No. Does it look like a Savage? No. It looks fine with some micro pitting. Remember, the entire height of a land is .004". Those little dots are .001 or less. The big ones are larger in diameter but still appear very shallow. If you don't like it what the option?
SHOOT THE RIFLE.

 

[nn8734]

it's 308 win, what do you mean. It should have fired about 400 rounds yet. And Ive heard of people who have fired over 6000 rounds thru same barrels without any significant accuracy declination

When are you actually going to shoot the rifle?

I figured you would have had a couple hundred more rounds through it by now.

This is why I never recommend anyone use a goddamn borescope on a used barrel unless they’re trying to diagnose a problem (a problem observed after shooting the rifle). It’s a complete waste of time, otherwise.

 

[Snek123]

I

When are you actually going to shoot the rifle?

I figured you would have had a couple hundred more rounds through it by now.

This is why I never recommend anyone use a goddamn borescope on a used barrel unless they’re trying to diagnose a problem (a problem observed after shooting the rifle). It’s a complete waste of time, otherwise.

Hey, I am saving up for a rifle scope right now. And also ordered and waiting for delivery of cleaning accessories. Guess i'll be ready somewhen in January.

 

[Conqueror]

OP wasting time. Sako barrels are legendary and TRGs are death lasers. Mine shoots 1/3moa with stupid reliability. I wouldn’t be sweating these little borescope lesions. Go shoot it with quality ammo and then report back.

 

[GBMaryland]

Yeah, I’m with jbel, that’s probably from rusting / improper storage.

Get some FGGM in 168 or 175gr and shoot that rifle properly At a test target.

‘It’s super likely that the rifle will fire pretty well, but that you’ll find you need to clean the bite more often.

For a rebarrel, you just need to send it to PVA or SAC… who are quite familiar with TRGs.

 

[Snek123]

Yeah, I’m with jbel, that’s probably from rusting / improper storage.

Get some FGGM in 168 or 175gr and shoot that rifle properly At a test target.

‘It’s super likely that the rifle will fire pretty well, but that you’ll find you need to clean the bite more often.

For a rebarrel, you just need to send it to PVA or SAC… who are quite familiar with TRGs.

Sadly im in the EU, Czech republic, not in the US, so I guess that advice goes for people in the US only. Will do. Do you think this condition of barrel will degrade longevity or accuracy? If so how much would you say? Im gonna start shooting ASAP and report back when I do.

 

[37L1]

Sadly im in the EU, Czech republic, not in the US, so I guess that advice goes for people in the US only. Will do. Do you think this condition of barrel will degrade longevity or accuracy? If so how much would you say? Im gonna start shooting ASAP and report back when I do.

Nope on both your questions. That barrel will probably last as long as you can shoot it. So shoot it and quit worrying about things that don't really matter.

 

[GBMaryland]

I’ve had 3 - TRG 42s in 300 win mag, and one TRG-22 in 308 (which I swapped the barrel out to a 6.5).

The 308 barrel was more or less what you have shown us here in the post. It shot 1 cm groups at 100 m…. And it was in less than pristine condition.

To answer your question… I am positive it will shoot well. The only issue you’re going to face is that you’re gonna have to clean it more often due to the pitting in the barrel.

What you want to remember is that barrel is a 1:11 barrel, so it will favor 10.8-11.3g bullets.

(Though, to be fair, those rifles tend shoot a lot of stuff really well. Not to mention you should be able to get a new barrel for that rifle fairly easy in Europe. One important thing to note is that in order to replace the barrel you typically have to cut a relief in the barrel right before the receiver, so that the barrel comes off easily without damaging the receiver. if you find yourself having a really difficult time getting a barrel I’m sure someone here can send you one.)

 

[jbell]

Sadly im in the EU, Czech republic, not in the US, so I guess that advice goes for people in the US only. Will do. Do you think this condition of barrel will degrade longevity or accuracy? If so how much would you say? Im gonna start shooting ASAP and report back when I do.

Speaking from experience having owned 4 or 5 TRG22s one that I traded for as a used rifle that just didn’t shoot quite as well as all my others. After close inspection I found the bore was allowed to rust (truly light surface rust resulting in micro pitting like yours), I am certain this was the cause of the accuracy loss. It wasn’t significant, just noticeable. It was still a sub MOA rifle at close range and MOA ish even out to 1104 yards (the furtherest I had to test it). Keep in mind the long range performance was probably limited by the conditions, shooting a 308 loaded with a D46 at 2675 fps in a density altitude a few thousand feet below sea level isn’t exactly prime testing conditions.

Like everyone is saying, once you have a scope on the rifle go shoot it. If you are new to the sport, which it sounds like you may be the accuracy should be more than adequate until you burn this barrel up. At very least use it to put a few thousand rounds down range and learn the rifle while you are saving up for a new barrel.

One thing to learn from this is what proper maintenance truly is. You will hear a lot of people saying that you never need to clean a barrel or can go long strings without cleaning before there is any accuracy loss. While this is somewhat true, know that there is nuance to the statement. If you are shooting a clean burning load or caliber and shooting regularly (at least every 10-15 days, just pulling an approximate timeframe out of my ass but it’s pretty close for my methodology) then yes you don’t need to clean after every session. However if you are going a month or more without shooting then you really should clean the bore and I prefer to lightly oil after and dry it before I shoot again, ESPECIALLY with a chromoly barrel like the factory TRG barrel.

One more thing I feel like I should mention about the TRG I traded for that had the rusted bore. I know it was stored without being shot for some time and I have no clue as to what ammo was shot through it, perhaps it was corrosive ammo. As long as you are careful and using the proper tools cleaning your bore will not degrade the life of it, where as allowing it to rust will. Powder residue / carbon will attract and hold moisture which will cause corrosion in all barrel steels even stainless barrels will rust over time.

This is just my opinion, but it is based on real world first hand experience.

 

[nn8734]

Hey, I am saving up for a rifle scope right now. And also ordered and waiting for delivery of cleaning accessories. Guess i'll be ready somewhen in January.

Let us know how it shoots. Meanwhile stop obsessing over how the barrel looks. If it shoots like shit (extremely unlikely) then simply stick a new barrel on it.

What you want to remember is that barrel is a 1:11 barrel, so it will favor 10.8-11.3g bullets.

Length of the bullet’s bearing surface is actually what determines required twist to stabilize, weight isn’t important. There just happens to be a mostly consistent correlation between the two…That said, a 12 twist will stabilize most popular bulllets used in 308, including the 185 berger jug and 169 smk.

 

[wade2big]

Yeah, I’m with jbel, that’s probably from rusting / improper storage.

Get some FGGM in 168 or 175gr and shoot that rifle properly At a test target.

‘It’s super likely that the rifle will fire pretty well, but that you’ll find you need to clean the bite more often.

For a rebarrel, you just need to send it to PVA or SAC… who are quite familiar with TRGs.

You don’t even have to send it if you have a barrel vice and a wheeler #1 action wrench or are willing to spend $175 to buy them. PVA will send a prefit.

 

[GBMaryland]

My understanding is sometimes that works without damaging the action and sometimes it doesn’t.

Short action customs was clear to say that typically end up messing up the finish. Normally they will have you cerekote the receiver…

do you have the part numbers for the action wrench?

 

[jbell]

I have had great results with the KRG action wrench:

TRG Action Wrench – Kinetic Research Group

kineticresearchgroup.com

 

[hkguns]

It is carbon fouling, clean it and shoot it. If you borescope more than you shoot, toss the borescopoe into the trash.

 

[GBMaryland]

I have had great results with the KRG action wrench:

TRG Action Wrench – Kinetic Research Group

kineticresearchgroup.com

...and you had no issues getting the barrel off?

 

[jbell]

...and you had no issues getting the barrel off?

I only removed 1 factory TRG barrel with it, but once I was able to clamp the barrel tight enough so that it did not slip in the vise I was able to brake it free. I used a long bar, preloaded it to take up all the slop, and then gave it a quick hard snap. Maybe I got lucky…

 

[spife7980]

Length of the bullet’s bearing surface is actually what determines required twist to stabilize, weight isn’t important.

Fixed it for you. There’s more to a bullets weight and balance than just bearing surface.

 

[nn8734]

Fixed it for you. There’s more to a bullets weight and balance than just bearing surface.

Yep, thx…length is the overarching factor

 

[Snek123]

Hi guys, in case some of you are still around and see this threads reply... I know youve been asking me about how the rifle SHOOTS. So today I was at the range with it for the first time to zero it at 110 yards / 100 m and this is how my very first 2 shots look like. (the guy who helped me with the zeroing said the rifle looks OK and shoots well and that I did well especially for the first time shooter with Long range rifle like this.

I have 2 more questions -

1) how do you clean your chamber and all the space in front of it?
2) is it OK to de-cock the gun in a way that I would put the bolt in the rifle, keep the trigger pulled and then move the bolt down? Is this safer for the mechanism and the striker? Thanks

The 2 shots are about 0,8 inch apart - is that OK?

 

[XLR308]

Hi guys, in case some of you are still around and see this threads reply... I know youve been asking me about how the rifle SHOOTS. So today I was at the range with it for the first time to zero it at 110 yards / 100 m and this is how my very first 2 shots look like. (the guy who helped me with the zeroing said the rifle looks OK and shoots well and that I did well especially for the first time shooter with Long range rifle like this.

I have 2 more questions -

1) how do you clean your chamber and all the space in front of it?
2) is it OK to de-cock the gun in a way that I would put the bolt in the rifle, keep the trigger pulled and then move the bolt down? Is this safer for the mechanism and the striker? Thanks

The 2 shots are about 0,8 inch apart - is that OK?

Its not going to hurt anything to dry fire the rifle, if you want to do an extensive amount of dry fire practice as in settling in behind the rifle and breaking tje shot like you are actually shooting get some snap caps for peace of mind if it bothers you.
Looks like its a shooter by the way.

 

[spife7980]

2) is it OK to de-cock the gun in a way that I would put the bolt in the rifle, keep the trigger pulled and then move the bolt down? Is this safer for the mechanism and the striker? Thanks

Perfectly acceptable and I’d say preferred.

 

[CerebralDistortion]

Hi guys, in case some of you are still around and see this threads reply... I know youve been asking me about how the rifle SHOOTS. So today I was at the range with it for the first time to zero it at 110 yards / 100 m and this is how my very first 2 shots look like. (the guy who helped me with the zeroing said the rifle looks OK and shoots well and that I did well especially for the first time shooter with Long range rifle like this.

I have 2 more questions -

1) how do you clean your chamber and all the space in front of it?
2) is it OK to de-cock the gun in a way that I would put the bolt in the rifle, keep the trigger pulled and then move the bolt down? Is this safer for the mechanism and the striker? Thanks

The 2 shots are about 0,8 inch apart - is that OK?

When we ask how it shoots, we are talking about consistency over about 50 or so shots (or at least a 5 shot group).

But since you are new to this kind of shooting and the rifle is new to you, those two shots seems good enough. And if it is recently cleaned, two bullets down the bore is probably not enough to get it dirty enough.

1. There are chamber specific brushes you could buy. I usually just poke around a bit with a cleaning patch.

In front of? That would be the bore? Or do you mean in the action just behind the barrel?

If my rifle's action needs cleaning, I remove the action from the stock. Then Ed's Red on a paint-/toothbrush and brush away old grease and dirt. Breakleen to rince it out and then WD40.
Then, of course, some good mineral oil and grease on appropriate parts (grease on bolt lugs only).

2. I do likewise. But closing the bolt and pulling the trigger won't hurt it either.

 

[Palo]

The marks definitely look like pitting .
My mate bought a mint looking sako trg and his barrel was a lot more pitted than yours.
It still shot very well though.
I have one of the older sako trgs that came with a stainless barrel from the factory.
That barrel has over 4000 rounds through it and there is no pitting at all, in fact there is very little sign of any wear . I did clean It after every shooting session though.

 

[GBMaryland]

I’ve had a TRG with putting in the barrel and had it shoot completely fine and still do quarter to half inch groups of 100 yards.

The actual issue was not accuracy, but cleaning the barrel, because pitting tends to cause it to foul quicker.

What I did in that case is, I would soak the barrel in bore tech eliminator by plugging one end of the barrel. (first you have to clean it with bore tech C4, thus removing any Siri is carbon buildup, and then you soak it.) keep in mind. This is not a we do this all the time as a matter of routine procedure… you’re only do it when you noticed a lot of copper build up.

 

[Snek123]

I’ve had a TRG with putting in the barrel and had it shoot completely fine and still do quarter to half inch groups of 100 yards.

The actual issue was not accuracy, but cleaning the barrel, because pitting tends to cause it to foul quicker.

What I did in that case is, I would soak the barrel in bore tech eliminator by plugging one end of the barrel. (first you have to clean it with bore tech C4, thus removing any Siri is carbon buildup, and then you soak it.) keep in mind. This is not a we do this all the time as a matter of routine procedure… you’re only do it when you noticed a lot of copper build up.

So far I have purchased / used Boretech eliminator and Boretech Friction Guard XP gun oil. Will consider buying the C4 when Ive shot a little bit more. Btw did you get rid of the TRG? Do you have any pics or vids of the barrel? What about life expectancy of such barrel - normal? Thanks