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Sako TRG 22 Expected Accuracy?
- Thread starter Bloodstriker
- Start date
That sounds good to go. With that twist the TRG has I would definitely try the 175gr, might wield better results.
But out of everything that has been said in the first page of the thread, all I could think about is where did you find all those different boxes of ammo nowadays?
Nothing is in stock around here.
But out of everything that has been said in the first page of the thread, all I could think about is where did you find all those different boxes of ammo nowadays?
Nothing is in stock around here.
I tried 175 and got about the same as the 168. But at these group sizes, I know that it's not the rifle and its time for me to practice.
I just bought a trg 22 and had it to the range only once. The rifle will outshoot me. We put about 75 rounds through it with 4 different shooters all but a few 5 shot groups were under 1" at 100 yds using a mix of reloads from my dpms lr308 including 155 and 168 amaxs, 168 and 175 smk.
Sorry, it was late when I responded and I didn't realized you had asked me a question. I'm in Canada.
Okay here are my results for the day. I'm hoping someone can help make sense of this:
100M
200M
Group Size determined with a digital caliber measuring ring to ring, and subtracting 0.300". MOA is determined by taking the CTC value and dividing by 1.141 @ 100M and 2.282 @ 200M.
MOA shown to have an apples to apples comparision to those that shoot at 100/200 yards.
Pic 1 100M:
From top left to top right.
1. Federal 168gr Sierra Matching BTHP GMM: 0.633" or 0.555 MOA
2. Hornady Match 155gr OTM W/C: 0.834" or 0.730 MOA
3. Hornady Match 155gr OTM W/C: 1.342" or 1.176 MOA
Middle left to middle right.
4. Hornady Match 168 gr AMAX: 0.765" or 0.670 MOA
5. Hornady Match 168 gr AMAX: 0.743" or 0.651 MOA
6. Hornady Match 168gr BTHP: 1.090" or 0.955 MOA
Bottom left to bottom right.
7. Hornady Match 168gr BTHP: 0.578" or 0.507 MOA
8. Federal Sierra Matchking 175gr GMM: 0.785" or 0.688 MOA
Pic 2 200M:
Federal 168gr Sierra Matchking BTHP GMM: 1.071" or 0.469 MOA
It looks like I have a problem with trigger control...
100M
200M
Group Size determined with a digital caliber measuring ring to ring, and subtracting 0.300". MOA is determined by taking the CTC value and dividing by 1.141 @ 100M and 2.282 @ 200M.
MOA shown to have an apples to apples comparision to those that shoot at 100/200 yards.
Pic 1 100M:
From top left to top right.
1. Federal 168gr Sierra Matching BTHP GMM: 0.633" or 0.555 MOA
2. Hornady Match 155gr OTM W/C: 0.834" or 0.730 MOA
3. Hornady Match 155gr OTM W/C: 1.342" or 1.176 MOA
Middle left to middle right.
4. Hornady Match 168 gr AMAX: 0.765" or 0.670 MOA
5. Hornady Match 168 gr AMAX: 0.743" or 0.651 MOA
6. Hornady Match 168gr BTHP: 1.090" or 0.955 MOA
Bottom left to bottom right.
7. Hornady Match 168gr BTHP: 0.578" or 0.507 MOA
8. Federal Sierra Matchking 175gr GMM: 0.785" or 0.688 MOA
Pic 2 200M:
Federal 168gr Sierra Matchking BTHP GMM: 1.071" or 0.469 MOA
It looks like I have a problem with trigger control...
Last edited:
I would have to agree. I was thinking as I was looking at the groups that you need to focus on the basics and see what happens. Also how much are you dry firing? Quality dry firing is worth its weight in gold, remember the basics and use a target and see what your cross hairs are doing for each shot...
I am dry fire practicing for 30 mins every second day. I can keep still in these sessions, but I wind up jerking due to recoil.
One thing you could try is double ear pro. It will not help with the recoil but may help with the perception of it. Other than that it is just going to be a mental game for you. Make sure you are up on the rifle good and firm and loading the bipod which will help manage the recoil some.
Great idea. The recoil doesn't bother me as I'm usually able to see the impact. It's the sound that gets to me.
I know double ear pro works well for some. Also remember that not all ear pro is created = so do your research and figure out if you could upgrade to help with the situation.
I'm currently running MSA Sordin Supreme Pros. They've got great sound quality but I'm planning to pair them up with Surefire Earpros.
Bloodstriker
This is what I experienced with my TRG-22 .308.
Great with factory ammo 168 and 175 Federal GMM SMK BTHP, as well as 7.62x51 175, same brand, same stuff, just a bit hotter, between 1/4 to 3/4 MOA.
They shot better, in my rifle, than everything else I tried.
For factory ammo, I ended sticking with the Fed .308, 175, as they gave me the best out of both worlds (short/long range accuracy).
Reloads: SMK 168/175, AMAX 178, best results with 178 AMAX (I think it was .118 at 100 and .187 at 200, or the other way around, it was a while ago), 43.5 Varget, 210 gm primers, Federal cases, can't remember OAL, got it written somewhere (I measure from ogive).
I never tried 155's, so I will not talk about it.
Never finished trying the Bergers I have (175 LRT, 185 Hybrids, 185 VLD), eventually will get to it.
Anyway, never mind the "best groups", as they do not happen everyday but the TRG 22 .308 is an average 1/2 MOA, or better, rifle.
I briefly checked all previous posts to see comments.
Questions are:
How well do you shoot usually with other rifles?
How often do you practice? Spend some time without shooting and you will be surprised; even Experts Marksmans/Pro Shooters/Snipers, will see their performance go down when they do not practice. You can always practice with a good, accurate, heavy .22, with a trigger set close to the one of your TRG, it is cheaper to shoot than a .308 but nothing can replace the real deal.
A good way to find out about your rifle is to get a known good shooter, with TRG experience, behind it; if he shoots around 1/2 MOA, or better, you can rest assure that your TRG is within the norm, usually Sako does not let a TRG rifle leave the factory if it does not shoot 1/2 MOA. I understand your friend is a good shot but sometimes, for some shooters, it takes a bit to start to get the best out of a rifle.
Also, if you are shooting 168 SMK, when you will start to venture past, let's say 700 yards, switch to 175 SMK (or 178 AMAX), the 168 can get a bit "funky" further out, due to different factors, the heavier bullet will be more consistent.
Shooting at 1000/1200 yards will not be a problem, as long as you have good glass/rings/rail. You can mess around further out, even if .308 is not made to reach out that far but it is a blast anyway (took mine up to a mile, 25% hits ratio, target 25x15).
Hopefully your rifle is fine and there is no issues with crown, trigger, or other components and the previous owner was accurate on the rifle's rounds count.
I looked at your targets 100/200 yards.
Do you need to readjust your scope 4 clicks left (assuming clicks are 1/4 MOA), or is it dead on and you do have that much of a trigger pull?
As jbell comments, dry firing on target is good; to improve this exercise, put a quarter on the top end of your barrel, before the muzzle brake; when you squeeze the trigger, the quarter should not fall. If it does fall, repeat until you can consistently keep the quarter from falling, while squeezing the trigger.
BTW, what is your trigger set at?
If noise is a factor, do everything you can to protect your ears.
If recoil is a factor, use different recoil pads, even strap-on, until acceptable.
Do you change feet, hands, elbows positions, from one shot to another?
Try to be as consistent as possible, on everything; consistency equals accuracy.
Have someone with good shooting experience to look at you closely when you shoot, he may be able to give you some good info on what you are doing, or not doing.
I wish you the best with your rifle, the TRG-22 has been, for me, a very reliable, accurate rifle.
Have fun and good shooting.
Ombre noire
This is what I experienced with my TRG-22 .308.
Great with factory ammo 168 and 175 Federal GMM SMK BTHP, as well as 7.62x51 175, same brand, same stuff, just a bit hotter, between 1/4 to 3/4 MOA.
They shot better, in my rifle, than everything else I tried.
For factory ammo, I ended sticking with the Fed .308, 175, as they gave me the best out of both worlds (short/long range accuracy).
Reloads: SMK 168/175, AMAX 178, best results with 178 AMAX (I think it was .118 at 100 and .187 at 200, or the other way around, it was a while ago), 43.5 Varget, 210 gm primers, Federal cases, can't remember OAL, got it written somewhere (I measure from ogive).
I never tried 155's, so I will not talk about it.
Never finished trying the Bergers I have (175 LRT, 185 Hybrids, 185 VLD), eventually will get to it.
Anyway, never mind the "best groups", as they do not happen everyday but the TRG 22 .308 is an average 1/2 MOA, or better, rifle.
I briefly checked all previous posts to see comments.
Questions are:
How well do you shoot usually with other rifles?
How often do you practice? Spend some time without shooting and you will be surprised; even Experts Marksmans/Pro Shooters/Snipers, will see their performance go down when they do not practice. You can always practice with a good, accurate, heavy .22, with a trigger set close to the one of your TRG, it is cheaper to shoot than a .308 but nothing can replace the real deal.
A good way to find out about your rifle is to get a known good shooter, with TRG experience, behind it; if he shoots around 1/2 MOA, or better, you can rest assure that your TRG is within the norm, usually Sako does not let a TRG rifle leave the factory if it does not shoot 1/2 MOA. I understand your friend is a good shot but sometimes, for some shooters, it takes a bit to start to get the best out of a rifle.
Also, if you are shooting 168 SMK, when you will start to venture past, let's say 700 yards, switch to 175 SMK (or 178 AMAX), the 168 can get a bit "funky" further out, due to different factors, the heavier bullet will be more consistent.
Shooting at 1000/1200 yards will not be a problem, as long as you have good glass/rings/rail. You can mess around further out, even if .308 is not made to reach out that far but it is a blast anyway (took mine up to a mile, 25% hits ratio, target 25x15).
Hopefully your rifle is fine and there is no issues with crown, trigger, or other components and the previous owner was accurate on the rifle's rounds count.
I looked at your targets 100/200 yards.
Do you need to readjust your scope 4 clicks left (assuming clicks are 1/4 MOA), or is it dead on and you do have that much of a trigger pull?
As jbell comments, dry firing on target is good; to improve this exercise, put a quarter on the top end of your barrel, before the muzzle brake; when you squeeze the trigger, the quarter should not fall. If it does fall, repeat until you can consistently keep the quarter from falling, while squeezing the trigger.
BTW, what is your trigger set at?
If noise is a factor, do everything you can to protect your ears.
If recoil is a factor, use different recoil pads, even strap-on, until acceptable.
Do you change feet, hands, elbows positions, from one shot to another?
Try to be as consistent as possible, on everything; consistency equals accuracy.
Have someone with good shooting experience to look at you closely when you shoot, he may be able to give you some good info on what you are doing, or not doing.
I wish you the best with your rifle, the TRG-22 has been, for me, a very reliable, accurate rifle.
Have fun and good shooting.
Ombre noire
Thank you for your well thought out response, Ombre Noir. I really appreciate everybody's willingness too provide feedback and suggestions.
Here are the answers to your questions:
I don't have many other rifles. Just a Savage 93R17 TRR-SR 17 HMR and a Beretta CX4 in 9mm.
With the Savage, I average around 1 MOA at 100M. At 50M, it's usually around 0.5 to 0.75 MOA. Wind plays a big factor in making my groups larger at 100M.
With the CX4, I'm around 1-1.25" at 50M.
I usually make it up to the range 1-2 times a week. When I'm busy, I make it up once every 2 weeks. When I only had the CX4, I would go through about 300 rounds per session. Once I got the 17 HMR, I use about 150 rounds per session. These days, I exclusively shoot the TRG and go through about 60-100 rounds per session. But then, part of it was trying to find a factory load that I like.
I wouldn't mind getting a 22 as a trainer, but I want something really close to the TRG. I believe I saw a picture of a member with something like that but the link to details wouldn't work as the new update to the forums was already in place. I would love to be pointed to that post!
I endeavour to do at least 30 mins of dry fire practice each night. I'll try the coin trick. I have heard of it from some friend that used to serve in the military. It sounds like a great idea.
To be honest, I don't know what the trigger is set at, but it feels around 2.5-3 lbs. u haven't messed with it at all other than to take it out to see if it needed cleaning.
Noise and recoil are both a factor. I was just out at the range this afternoon and I had four shots all touching and one shot about an inch to the right. I've noticed that any 'flyers' always wind up to the right. It must be me.
I shoot from a bench and occasionally catch myself in a strange position like putting my weight on the balls of my feet.
I am looking into taking some lessons to help me with my fundamentals.
Here are the answers to your questions:
I don't have many other rifles. Just a Savage 93R17 TRR-SR 17 HMR and a Beretta CX4 in 9mm.
With the Savage, I average around 1 MOA at 100M. At 50M, it's usually around 0.5 to 0.75 MOA. Wind plays a big factor in making my groups larger at 100M.
With the CX4, I'm around 1-1.25" at 50M.
I usually make it up to the range 1-2 times a week. When I'm busy, I make it up once every 2 weeks. When I only had the CX4, I would go through about 300 rounds per session. Once I got the 17 HMR, I use about 150 rounds per session. These days, I exclusively shoot the TRG and go through about 60-100 rounds per session. But then, part of it was trying to find a factory load that I like.
I wouldn't mind getting a 22 as a trainer, but I want something really close to the TRG. I believe I saw a picture of a member with something like that but the link to details wouldn't work as the new update to the forums was already in place. I would love to be pointed to that post!
I endeavour to do at least 30 mins of dry fire practice each night. I'll try the coin trick. I have heard of it from some friend that used to serve in the military. It sounds like a great idea.
To be honest, I don't know what the trigger is set at, but it feels around 2.5-3 lbs. u haven't messed with it at all other than to take it out to see if it needed cleaning.
Noise and recoil are both a factor. I was just out at the range this afternoon and I had four shots all touching and one shot about an inch to the right. I've noticed that any 'flyers' always wind up to the right. It must be me.
I shoot from a bench and occasionally catch myself in a strange position like putting my weight on the balls of my feet.
I am looking into taking some lessons to help me with my fundamentals.
Like everybody said before me, any good trg should be doing 1/2 moa easily, depending on good quality ammo ofcourse. I previously owned a trg 22 and sold it for need of cash that time. Always resented that, so when i got a chance to buy a nother trg22 i jumped at it. This time is was not a new one, in fact, i it had 2 previous owners, both guys i personally knew. So when i got it, it already had a hefty round count, but i knew both owners had treated her well.
It has served me well the last 5 years and i actually won a national year competition with it. Last year however it was opening from a half moa up to 1 moa. I think this has to do with the wear and tear of 13.355 rounds through its barrel. So i ordered a new barrel from lothar walther, 32 inch with a 1-10 twist for heavy tips. At the same time i let the gunsmith cut my old 26 inch Sako barrel back to 20 inch and recut the crown.
This has helped alot, for the time being! Cutting and recrowning turned her back in to a half moa rifle again, so i am still using the old barrel instead of the new one, for 2 reasons, it has its accuracy back and it is alot more fun shooting and using it, now she has become such a short and handy rifle. Smallest group i shot with the cut barrel was 17.61mm from edge to edge, substracting 7.62 leaves a 9.99mm center to center group at 100m, thats a nice 1/3 moa.
Now i know that just cutting 6 inch of the end of the barrel and recrowning wont do any good to the damage that is at the beginning of the barrel, but it should at least give me a couple thousand extra rounds, and as long as she will stay within 1 moa, she will still serve great as a nice hunting rifle.
So cutting a long story short, if some of your better shooting friends also dont get your trg shooting better than 1 moa, you might have a gunsmith look at your barrel, maybe its crown is damaged?
Good luck,
NK.
It has served me well the last 5 years and i actually won a national year competition with it. Last year however it was opening from a half moa up to 1 moa. I think this has to do with the wear and tear of 13.355 rounds through its barrel. So i ordered a new barrel from lothar walther, 32 inch with a 1-10 twist for heavy tips. At the same time i let the gunsmith cut my old 26 inch Sako barrel back to 20 inch and recut the crown.
This has helped alot, for the time being! Cutting and recrowning turned her back in to a half moa rifle again, so i am still using the old barrel instead of the new one, for 2 reasons, it has its accuracy back and it is alot more fun shooting and using it, now she has become such a short and handy rifle. Smallest group i shot with the cut barrel was 17.61mm from edge to edge, substracting 7.62 leaves a 9.99mm center to center group at 100m, thats a nice 1/3 moa.
Now i know that just cutting 6 inch of the end of the barrel and recrowning wont do any good to the damage that is at the beginning of the barrel, but it should at least give me a couple thousand extra rounds, and as long as she will stay within 1 moa, she will still serve great as a nice hunting rifle.
So cutting a long story short, if some of your better shooting friends also dont get your trg shooting better than 1 moa, you might have a gunsmith look at your barrel, maybe its crown is damaged?
Good luck,
NK.
Attachments
Great info. Just a question - is there any way to swap back and forth between two barrels, or does it have to go to a smith?
I have used my TRG 22 in Fclass match and won a few too. great rifle but just a little too light for my taste. Plugs and muffs are a must and it makes a big difference on the comfort level, especially on a line with a bunch of other shooters.
Only for removing the origenal sako barrel for the first time, it is best to have it done by a smith, cause them sako barrels are fitted tight and strong!
My smith needed to heat up the action quite a bit. After that, i now can remove and attach both barrels myself, with 70newton of torque, just need a sako wrench cause of the 3 lugs, but other than that, it is the same procedure as with custom rifles.
@ leadbullet; f-class does not allow the use of muzzle brakes, so why the need of both plugs and mufs? Without the brake mine sounds just like any other 308 rifle.
Grtz,
NK.
My smith needed to heat up the action quite a bit. After that, i now can remove and attach both barrels myself, with 70newton of torque, just need a sako wrench cause of the 3 lugs, but other than that, it is the same procedure as with custom rifles.
@ leadbullet; f-class does not allow the use of muzzle brakes, so why the need of both plugs and mufs? Without the brake mine sounds just like any other 308 rifle.
Grtz,
NK.
Another update:
The gun is definitely fine and is more accurate than I have it credit for. Definitely more accurate than I am. As I practice and get more familiar with the gun, I've noticed that all groups are now a tad below .5 MOA @ 100M and 200M. I even shot my lifetime best 100M group today of 0.201 MOA!
After all of this I'm beginning to realize how important it is for a shooter to become famine with his rifle. I'm starting to get a feel for how dirty the bore likes to be and how particular it is with ammo. All a very enlightening experience.
Next up will be a try at reloading.
The gun is definitely fine and is more accurate than I have it credit for. Definitely more accurate than I am. As I practice and get more familiar with the gun, I've noticed that all groups are now a tad below .5 MOA @ 100M and 200M. I even shot my lifetime best 100M group today of 0.201 MOA!
After all of this I'm beginning to realize how important it is for a shooter to become famine with his rifle. I'm starting to get a feel for how dirty the bore likes to be and how particular it is with ammo. All a very enlightening experience.
Next up will be a try at reloading.
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