Sako TRG M10 or AI AX-MC, torn between 2 lovers

[JustBC]

I am saving my pennies up for a new rifle. I am trying to decide between a TRG-M10 or an AX-MC. I want a long action rifle that will easily switch calibers to .308/6.5mm/6MM. I know this is like choosing between a Ferrari and Lamborghini.
I have a TRG 22 and love it to death. It's really comfortable to shoot and dead nuts accurate. I love Sako but the accessories and barrels are harder to find and generally more expensive.
Does anyone here have experience with the M10? Is the trigger as nice as the 22/42? What are the ergonomics like etc? Are there any downsides besides the ones I have listed?
Also are there any downsides with the AX-MC that someone has experienced?

Thanks, BC

 

[Mute]

I would put them on par in terms of end user experience, but here in the US, the Sako is quite a bit more than the AI and you're going to find parts and accessories have better availability on the AI platform, at least currently.

 

[SeaWolff]

I own an M10. Awesome Rifle! I love it more and more everytime I take it out. A buddy of mine who is on here (beenjammin) has an AI AXMC. He'll likely chime in. Having shot both, they are equally awesome. The only drawback on the M10 that I have found (higher price aside) is the lack of a 6.5mm/6mm barrel option. Sako has not offered any 6.5/6mm barrels for the M10. They may come out with one but I am not sure. You could technically harvest the barrel extension off of one of their barrel assemblies and have a barrel made but it may be cost prohibitive. Other than that, I love the M10. The trigger is typical Sako - fantastic. Both systems are capable of equal precision from what I have seen. I think the AXMC weighs a little more but I haven't actually checked. Hope this helps!

 

[beenjammin]

Also the m10 locks folded and I dont like this feature. I don't have a third hand free to press the button to unfold it. The AI had a better folding mechanism and barrel options. The m10 is a sweet rifle but only using Sako barrels is a huge drawback for me at least. I'd have to harvest an extension for other caliber choices. Bradshaw did beat me by 5 points in a match this weekend with his m10 though. He had a sweet group at a grand with his 20" .308 using my suppressor. I think that was the real reason. I let him use my thundetbeast

 

[beenjammin]

Trigger in the m10 is fantastic bolt pull is longer. But nothing I would worry about. Just know for what you pay for one caliber on the m10 alone with get you an AXMC and a scope

 

[NoLegs24]

Like others said, main downfall to that system is barrels. But, my buddy just sent his M10 Kit (308, 300WM, 338LM) to Chad at LRI so he can spin up barrels for him. Of course he has to salvage the barrel extension but thats what the DT guys do.

M10 Bolt is a lot smoother, trigger is better as well as the grip. And its nice to change the throw on the bolt from SA to LA if need be.

Not as quick to change barrels out as the AI, rifle sits a lot lower to the grown so you can really use a bigger rear bag without having to extend the bipods much longer. LOP seems a tad bit long, and theres slight play in the cheek pad.

The M10 does have a smaller diameter firing pin on all the bolts so if you do end up getting a SA cartridge with a small primer, you won't have to worry about bushing the bolt unlike the large firing in the MC.

Its nice that each M10 bolt comes intact with the firing pin assembly so you won't have to worry about disassembling the bolt bodies to switch out.

With all that said, my buddy told me if he had to do it all over again, he'd go a different route cause of the complications with barrels and not being as easy to get a bagel spun up by any smith like the AI's

 

[BangBangBlatBlat]

My TRG is one of my favorite rifles. If I was in Europe, I'd consider the M10.

But in the states? AI hands down. There's a lot more meaningful support for it here. The barrel change system is perfect as well.

 

[JustBC]

Thanks guys!

 

[JustBC]

RMBradshaw that is one helluva wall you have in that picture.

 

[BEJ762]

If it were me, I would get the M10 but I also currently own a AXMC.

That aside, the AXMC is a more versatile platform as other have mentioned. It gives you more options with less hassle and cost.

 

[JustBC]

Why specifically would you get the M10?

 

[NoLegs24]

I'd look at the Cadex Kraken instead of the M10


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[BEJ762]

I guess I was not clear. The AXMC, I feel, is a better platform and purchase due to less cost, more barrel options, more caliber options and less support headaches. For those reasons, if I have currently have neither rifle, I would get the AXMC.

With that said, I do currently own a AXMC, I don't plan on ever getting rid of it, but my next purchase will be M10 because I think it is a unique platform and I honestly don't care about having to shoot NATO calibers (I have other guns in flavors of 6.5 if I want that).

 

[schmi015]

Ask Nolegs24 he had both AI AXMC and M10, and if i recall he sold the m10.

 

[JustBC]

NoLegs24 Why did you get rid of your M10?
Also, for you AI folks, how do they handle the long action/short bolt pull with .308? That is one thing Sako nailed.

 

[NoLegs24]

NoLegs24 Why did you get rid of your M10?
Also, for you AI folks, how do they handle the long action/short bolt pull with .308? That is one thing Sako nailed.

Barrel availability and AI did everything Sako did at a cheaper price and have any gunsmith spin a barrel for you without any hassle.
Though Chad at LRI seems to be having no problems so far with my buddies M10 barrel. Should be finished soon.

The short to long bolt throw change ability is quite nice on the M10 but you'll get used to the long throw in the MC real quick if you shoot all your cals in that system with magnum to short action cartridges.
It'll only get tricky if you switch from using the AXMC to a standard short action. Then you might miss picking up a round in the MC lol.


Again, the Cadex Kraken would possibly be a better choice then the M10 but the barrels itself are a tad different on the Kraken and aren't cheap at $1100. That's where they get you since the rifle system is just under $7k

There's some barely used MC's in the PX at great prices. Def consider that vs buying new.


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[JustBC]

I have been looking at the PX and drooling over a couple there. Thanks, I appreciate the input. I will look at the Kraken but $1100 for a barrel is tough.

 

[NoLegs24]

Yup. Maybe there's a smith that will spin them a bit cheaper than what Cadex is charging.

Overall. Think you'll be a lot happier with the AI.


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[JustBC]

Oh, I did a bad bad thing.
Sell the house, sell the car, sell the kids and shoot NATO calibers....

You know that feeling, your heart beats too fast, you know you are doing something you really shouldn't but you do it anyway?
The price was too low to resist. The pull of gravity was just too strong.

I got a black M10 in .308, 26" barrel and a 338 kit. Going to put an S&B on top.
I ended up paying less than retail even with the 338 kit.

NoLegs, I appreciate you trying to save me from myself
I would be interested in how your friend's LRI project turns out. I have spare barrel I may be able to harvest from.

I did actually think things through. I have the TRG 22 in 6.5 Creedmoor so that is covered. I wanted a 308 and I wanted something for distance. The 338 kit should cover that. I do wish Sako would lower their prices for accessories.

If they come up with a new Wunder-Kaliber I will cross that bridge later.

 

[NoLegs24]

Your funeral lol.

Will do. Sent him some bullets that me and a buddy will shoot at the Nightforce ELR match next month.
Should be done very soon with both our barrels.


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[davidwiz]

Again, the Cadex Kraken would possibly be a better choice then the M10 but the barrels itself are a tad different on the Kraken and aren't cheap at $1100. That's where they get you since the rifle system is just under $7k

When I talked to the Cadex rep at the SHOT Show, he said it wouldn't be difficult to have a Kraken barrel made. There is a Cadex rep on this forum and I'm sure he will chime in.

 

[beenjammin]

Oh, I did a bad bad thing.
Sell the house, sell the car, sell the kids and shoot NATO calibers....

You know that feeling, your heart beats too fast, you know you are doing something you really shouldn't but you do it anyway?
The price was too low to resist. The pull of gravity was just too strong.

I got a black M10 in .308, 26" barrel and a 338 kit. Going to put an S&B on top.
I ended up paying less than retail even with the 338 kit.

NoLegs, I appreciate you trying to save me from myself
I would be interested in how your friend's LRI project turns out. I have spare barrel I may be able to harvest from.

I did actually think things through. I have the TRG 22 in 6.5 Creedmoor so that is covered. I wanted a 308 and I wanted something for distance. The 338 kit should cover that. I do wish Sako would lower their prices for accessories.

If they come up with a new Wunder-Kaliber I will cross that bridge later.

How about some pics when it gets here. I honestly have not seen a black one yet. I almost sold my AX set up for a black one. But I'd have to lose three calibers for it. Just can't do when my AX shoots so good (with a 1/12 Cooper barrel from the olden days)

 

[NoLegs24]

When I talked to the Cadex rep at the SHOT Show, he said it wouldn't be difficult to have a Kraken barrel made. There is a Cadex rep on this forum and I'm sure he will chime in.

They machined some wrench inserts at the breech of the barrel where you use to torque wrench to take on and off. I'm sure any competent smith can replicate it.




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[JustBC]

Will post pics when I get it. I live in Kalifornia so I won't be able to take possession for another 10 days.

 

[NoLegs24]

Will post pics when I get it. I live in Kalifornia so I won't be able to take possession for another 10 days.

Whereabouts?


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[JustBC]

Whereabouts?


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NoLegs, I am in SF Bay Area. You another Kalifornian?

 

[JustBC]

OK, I got to pick it up today. Unfortunately my rings were too low to mount the scope so I couldn't shoot it. It was like a wedding night with no sex.
Anyhow first impressions are good. The fit and finish are very nice. Doing the Caliber change is a bit more involved than an AI. Still it is reasonably easy and doable in the field if you have the tool. Oddly enough the grip was a bit too big for my (big) hands. I changed the backstrap to the Small. Now it fits perfectly.
Now the trigger... The TRG trigger is why I bought the damn thing. It was a little heavy at first. I backed out the adjustment as far as it would go. (The adjustment is factory limited by a set screw.) The advertised pull range is 2.9 to 5.3 LBs. Right now mine breaks like glass at just under 2LBs. It is *really* sweet. I don't know if I got lucky or if their specs are wrong. It works consistently and wont fire if I slam the bolt or bang on the rifle. Still I will keep an eye on it when I am at the range.
The grip and cheekpiece are both comfortable. One thing I would like to see is a softer grip like the Ergo or Magpuls. The grip and backstrap are both hard plastic. Other than that I have no complaints.
I will take some pictures of it when I take it out on Friday.
Cheers,

BC

 

[NoLegs24]

NoLegs, I am in SF Bay Area. You another Kalifornian?

I'm on the opposite side of you in San Diego.

Here's my buddies LRI 7 Rem Mag

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[JustBC]

Nice! Did LRI require a barrel extension to harvest or were they able to manufacture one?

 

[NoLegs24]

Nice! Did LRI require a barrel extension to harvest or were they able to manufacture one?

They harvested one from a 308. That's going to be your easiest option. And you'll save money.
Though you're going to have to buy a barrel 1st lol. You can always torque your original barrel back on if need be.
They did a great job. Quick turnaround.
Identical barrels from his TRG and my AI.
We have the same seating depth and getting near identical velocities.
Which was a huge plus since we won't be far off especially with the limited time we have till the Nightforce ELR match in 2 weeks


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[JustBC]

Took it out yesterday. Better than prom night sex.. I will post a report on the TRG thread. Picture attached, prettier picture to come. I talked about this on the TRG thread but the magazines permit much longer loading than the TRG mags. Shown here with 26" 308 barrel.

 

[delinquent pleb]

Took it out yesterday. Better than prom night sex.. I will post a report on the TRG thread. Picture attached, prettier picture to come. I talked about this on the TRG thread but the magazines permit much longer loading than the TRG mags. Shown here with 26" 308 barrel.

That looks amazing. Worth the wait and the cash no doubt?

how does she shoot?

 

[TorF]

Do extra barrels for the M10 and AI come with a factory test target as an indication of accuracy like barrels for the Sauer STR/SSG3000?

 

[JustBC]

No, I didn't see a test target in either the rifle or the barrel.

 

[JustBC]

It shoots very well, I got a few sub MOA groups (5 shot). There is one odd thing. When I switched to the 338 barrel it was about 4 MOA to the left. I switched back to the 308 barrel and it held the original zero fairly well. It was about 3/4 MOA high. I pinged Sako about that but no response yet. When I got home I scrubbed the barrel extension pretty well. There was a tiny bit of gunk on one side. I have not had a chance to test it yet.

 

[JustBC]

NoLegs24, thanks. I happen to have a spare 308 barrel My M10 came with a 20" barrel. I want to stretch it out so I put on a 26. I need to think on what caliber I want but it is great knowing I have an option for non standard calibers. Out of curiosity what did he do for a bolt? Did he have a 300 Win mag or is he changing the bolt face on the 308 bolt?

 

[NoLegs24]

NoLegs24, thanks. I happen to have a spare 308 barrel My M10 came with a 20" barrel. I want to stretch it out so I put on a 26. I need to think on what caliber I want but it is great knowing I have an option for non standard calibers. Out of curiosity what did he do for a bolt? Did he have a 300 Win mag or is he changing the bolt face on the 308 bolt?

He has bolts for all three calibers as he bought the 300/338 conversions.
And don't worry about shifts when switching barrels. It's going to happen. Just make sure you know the shifts as it'll make it easier to re-zero to said cal.

Using a heavy palma (large shank length) with 1.25" diameter. Barrel. Chad had the guys at K&P get us some long 30" 7.5 twist. They got those barrels in stupid fast.
I'd def send them that barrel with the extension and bolt (if they need it for headspace).


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[Triggered]

Have been following the thread secretly.

Recently got a TRG 22 and have been blasting away with it on load development and what not. Seriously, nothing but praise for the Sakos I've had - this one being fantastic. Would instantly get rid of all my other guns to keep it with no hesitation.

The M10 is a "maybe one day" gun if they ever come down on price and become more available here in the States. Love the looks of it and the multi-cal obviously. Neat to see a black one in the wild. Now I just need proof of a green one out there and will have the list checked off

What is it like coming off the TRG and having moved to the M10? Like I said, love the looks, but pistol grip chassis' are not my favorite when it comes to handling. Was your TRG a folder or solid?

Very jealous none the less. Will stay tuned for further range reports.

 

[JustBC]

Well I still have my TRG. It is just re-barreled in 6.5 CM. I don't ever see getting rid of it. It is a solid not a folder. I have to say being able to fold the M10 is really nice. I would have a hard time getting the thing in my safe.

What made me fall in love with Sako are their triggers. The M10 and TRG both have the Sako awesomeness.

My TRG is really comfortable but it took me a little time to get it perfect for me. I am discovering that a few MM in cheek height or LOP really makes a difference when you are trying to go to the next level.
I am still trying to dial the M10 in. It is not quite as comfortable as my TRG for me yet. Don't get me wrong, out of the box the thing is fantastic. I just haven't been able to get it "perfect fitting" yet.

For me the pistol grip and chassis are fine. I shoot ARs a lot so I am used to them. The balance is a bit different though. I am going to have to think a bit before I can really describe it.

I really do wish they would drop the prices on the M10 and their accessories. If they did more people would buy them. If more people owned them there would probably be more aftermarket stuff available.
If my birthday, an unexpected tax return and a screaming good deal didn't all line up I wouldn't have bought it.

Also, I don't know why the F*** they won't sell green rifles in this country. I really wanted one but no-go. I am going to have to ask them.
Thanks,

BC

 

[roamin]

So for a caliber conversion (300WM/6.5) I understand that I would need to buy another barrel to harvest the barrel extension. However is the barrel extension wear part like the barrel, would I need to purchase another barrel to harvest the barrel extension every time I rebarrel the 6.5CM along with having one rolled? The plan would be to aquire two 300wm barrels pull the barrel extension off one, shoot the other, and use the barrel extension for a 6.5cm. When the 1st 300wm barrel is shoot out to remove barrel extension and mate it to the spare 300wm barrel, any reason this wont work?

 

[JustBC]

From what I understand it should work fine. The extensions don't really wear unless you bash them up. They are pressed onto the barrels.

 

[roamin]

Thank you for your help. This rifle is an irresistible beauty for sure.

 

[JustBC]

Sure, happy to help.

 

[JustBC]

btw, let me know if you want to trade a 20" 308 barrel for one of the 300 WM barrels you are buying. The extensions are the same. I could use a 300 WM barrel and I have 2 308 barrels.

 

[roamin]

Well I hope to retire at least one 300wm barrel.

 

[Triggered]

Any new report as to how the M10 is working out for you still?

 

[JustBC]

Well that's just spooky. I was just loading up some rounds for it and thinking I should send an update.

I haven't been able to shoot it since my last post.

I have come to believe that the AI barrel change method is better. You don't need to rely on an extension, you just screw it in. I don't know what kind of POI shift you get with an AI but I bet they beat .9 Mil. I would also be interested to know if the AI has a consistent return to zero after swapping barrels around.

Even still, I would choose the M10 again. It is comfortable to shoot, even with 338. Also, it has the TRG trigger. In my opinion the best trigger on any factory rifle out there.

I will post a range report in the next couple days. I'm hoping to get some good loads worked up tonight. So far I have shot mostly factory. I have Monday and Tuesday off so I am going to get some real trigger time on it.

 

[Forgetful Coyote]

NoLegs24 - whats your opinion on the K&P barrels? How do they compare to Bartlein? I know theyre cut rifled and have been at it for quite some time, like 25 years or more...? They are/were real highly thought of by the .50 BMG benchrest guys and other big boomer cal. shooters. Appears theyre going after the wider market more and more lately in the more practical popular smaller rounds...
I wanna say they also got their own CNC rifler? I could be wrong but I was under the impression they aint using Pratt & Whitneys, that they built their own CNC cut rifling machine which is an awesome feat..

 

[NoLegs24]

NoLegs24 - whats your opinion on the K&P barrels? How do they compare to Bartlein? I know theyre cut rifled and have been at it for quite some time, like 25 years or more...? They are/were real highly thought of by the .50 BMG benchrest guys and other big boomer cal. shooters. Appears theyre going after the wider market more and more lately in the more practical popular smaller rounds...
I wanna say they also got their own CNC rifler? I could be wrong but I was under the impression they aint using Pratt & Whitneys, that they built their own CNC cut rifling machine which is an awesome feat..

I don't know the back story to comment on K&P. All I know is that they hammer for both our barrels lol. Chad was able to get us 'custom' 7.5 twist large shank 30" tubes in a weeks time. Got a 2nd route hit at pass 1700y on one of the stages at the Nightforce ELR match we were hitting a 1792y target consistently on zero day.
We were battling inconsistent MV cause powder wasn't as temp stable as we thought (should've kept them in a cooler area), and we had to drop down the BC out of those new Hornady 7mm 180 ELD-M quite a bit. Even shooting it through a 7.5 twist at 3080 fps, their .4 G7 wasn't close....
But they were still accurate as f*, that's for sure. Was able to find a load for both rifles in 2 weeks time so it wasn't hard to find a load for that shot great.




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[JustBC]

NoLegs24 Which bipod does your buddy use on the M10? I got the TRG bipod adapter from Finnaccuracy. It is good for prone but it puts the bipod too far forward for bench shooting.