Salt Bath Nitride experiences please. For 300 wm build

[shootertom]

I am in the process of getting a 300 WM together and getting a couple quotes from smiths. I have gotten the advice that the process would double the life of the barrel, and I have also been cautioned that a barrel throat will need to be broken in before the process is done. However the barrel much be COMPLETELY clean of copper before the process. So if this is proper one would have to have the rifles assembled, break in the throat, clean(100%) then do the nitriding.

Has anyone had success with this? Please fill me in, perhaps its not a good idea or its well worth it?

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Honestly I've had more barrels done before break in than after.

Problem is you really don't ever get it 100% clean.

I have sent a hundred plus barrels in over the last few years and have only had about 3 that would not shoot after meloniting.

 

[Sixfivesavage]

Rob, do you see a noticeable Improvment in actions that have been done?

 

[GMZ]

I've heard go maybe a 50% improvement in barrel life but not double, thinking about doing this for a 280AI build I have in mind.

 

[Edds]

Honestly I've had more barrels done before break in than after. ......

I've always heard the throat will never break in if you don't break it in first. Why would you do this?

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Depending on caliber it'll add 30-40% barrel life.


Meloniting is not a end all to throat erosion. It'll still break in and the throat will still erode away, it's just gonna take a little longer.


Honestly I haven't seen a difference in breaking the barrel in prior to meloniting. Really it comes down to a customers preference on if they want it broke in before treatment.

As to the question as why would I do this, well again it comes down to the customers preference and sometimes budget.



If you would like to discuss this a little further please give me a shout, I talk a little better than I can type.

 

[Randoman5]

If you go with the bath salts don't eat anybody's face.

 

[shootertom]

The only down side I can think of is the fact that once the throat does wear out, the barrel is basically junk right? Its too hard on tools to shorten and re chamber right?

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Yes after it's shot out it's a tent stake.

But on that note, I'm not a big fan of setting barrels back anyway. This is because the heat from the round going off not only burns out the throat but also causes heat checking in the barrel and this goes several inch's into the barrel, so setting the barrel back may give you a few more rounds of life through the barrel but I feel it's not enough to warrant the smithing cost to have it done. Basically do you want to spend on a barrel that will give you a few more rounds or on a fresh barrel that will give you several more, a lot smiths will charge about the same for either job.

 

[shootertom]

I agree, it would seem that the money would be better spent on a new barrel either way. Would you be likely to nitride a 300 wm build if you were doing it for yourself? or consider?

 

[HodgdonExtreme]

I shot out a SBN'd 6xc barrel in 1600 shots, running 105s @ 3050 so I don't personally believe it adds any appreciable amount of life.

Additionally, from a logical/engineering perspective:

Abrasive wear doesn't wear out barrels, or else the erosion wouldn't be greatest at the throat; it would be greater towards the muzzle where the bullet is going faster - if there was any difference at all. Either way, it wouldn't be concentrated at the throat.

Thus, erosion is due to the fact the 7000° combustion temperature of the powder is well, well in excess of the melting temp of the steel. Which is to say each shot melts the metal a little. Over time you see serious erosion.

SBN doesn't increase the melting temperature of the steel. So, if you buy my logic, you shouldn't expect increased throat life from the process.

I sure do love the finish on steel parts though.

 

[Skyking]

http://www.snipershide.com/shooting.../90229-re-melonite-barrel-treatment-done.html

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

I do have most of my personal stuff done. Even if it's just a little it's still a little more than I would have.

 

[shootertom]

I might be interested in a quote, Robert. What is a good way to reach you?

 

[HumbleEinstein]

I just sent my new defiance deviant bolt in for the treatment. I'm doing it to prevent rust. It's a great alternative to cerakote which apparently adds too much thickness to the tight tolerances of the deviant bolt. If it wasn't for rust concerns I would have just left the whole thing in SS. I'll report back when I get it.

 

[RWSGunsmithing]

Email works best for quotes. If you have any specific questions just call during the day.

I also have some pricing info on my website as well as cleaning advise for your barrel after treatment.

Services | RW Snyder Gunsmithing

Robert

 

[ddavis]

The feature I like best, whether life is increased at all, is that it makes a stainless barrel matte black, and you aren't going to scratch the rifle, period. Also corrosion resistance. Think about how well a Glock slide handles corrosive environments vs just about anything else. The cost isn't terrible compared to having the rifle painted. I paint mine anyways, but I'll definitely be doing nitride again once I wear my current barrel out. I had the whole barreled action, bolt, etc. done. Just remove all of the springs. Very happy with the results.

 

[shootertom]

After reading that, link page it appears as though it makes it easier to clean but I couldn't determine weather or not it has an effect on muzzle velocity. Can anyone weigh in? Im not trying to keep the question going but its not something that seemed to have been determined.

 

[Chui]

One would get better abrasion/wear resistance, corrosion resistance with the nitrocarburization process. It's not a panacea but it, like deep cryogenic tempering is directionally correct.

As far as what would be the best technique? How about having a 'smith hand lap the barrel, cryo it then have it nitrocarburized (which then requires re-lapping/polishing and cleaning.

That's my engineering two cents.

 

[XRanger08]

Assuming we are talking about MOST high end barrels (Kreiger, Brux, Bartlein exc.) it is my understanding that 416R steel would not benefit from the Cryo process. Am I wrong?

 

[EricM40]

Reality is that Nitriding draws the carbon to the surface of the barrel both on the inside and outside. That being said with a Stainless barrel it does not give you double the chamber life because the concentration of carbon in the SS barrel is not as high as a 4140 chromo barrel.

If you have a chromo barrel, then I say do it. Otherwise I would stick with Cerakote.

 

[shootertom]

My barrel is on its way as we speak, it is made from 416 SS. Would anyone else like to weigh in on this conversation? Robert seems to be very pleased with the process. I would really like to hear from some other guys that have done it.

 

[338Norma]

My BAT VR-PIC came melonited and I got an explanation as to why BAT used 17-4 instead of 416R, cant remember exactly why bit it was preferred by their metallurgist.

 

[ErinMT]

Been thinking of trying nitriding to boost barrel life in a .300WM. With so many choices in barrel steels, is there a better choice to get the most life extension out of the nitriding?

I was thinking of going with a Lothar Walther in LW50, 1x10 twist, then having it nitrided. If that can get me 2,500-3,000 rounds before an appreciable drop in accuracy I'll be happy.