Looking to get a suppressor for my 300wsm and 308. Some use on a 556 during pig hunts. Can anyone really break out the difference between the dead air nomad and sandman for me. Don’t see much from their website.
Suppressors Sandman vs Nomad
- Thread starter Txhillbillie
- Start date
Weight and diameter are the big differences which come from the materials used in construction. The Sandman S is 17.7 oz and thinner where the Nomad is 14 oz (in direct thread). You can add the KeyMo adapter and the Nomad will be about the same weight, just larger diameter. The Nomad is just a touch shorter as well. The image below from Recoil is about the best way to visualize the difference. Sandman S with the Nomad version of the E-brake on it.
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The nomad is lighter as noted and I think the tone is better on 308 with the nomad.
I have shot both quite a bit and between those two for your two listed calibers I would go nomad.
I have shot both quite a bit and between those two for your two listed calibers I would go nomad.
If you’re not shooting FA/SBR regularly the Sandman is a bit overkill in my opinion. Sandman has a Stellite baffle stack in a tube and the Nomad is tubeless 17-4 baffles. You’ll be fine with the Nomad but be aware it comes in direct thread config and you’ll need to add a keymo if you want that capability.
Suppression wise the Nomad is between the Sandman S and L. The Nomad L is pretty big but the suppression is impressive.
Suppression wise the Nomad is between the Sandman S and L. The Nomad L is pretty big but the suppression is impressive.
I was leaning towards the Nomad. I like the direct thread and keymod options. Anyone have other recommendations. My only experience is with the Surefire issued cans.
I've heard some good things about the EA Vox S. I'm kind of in the same boat and debating between Vox S and Nomad. Mostly to be mounted on 12.5" 6.5 Grendel or 8.5" 300 Blk.
Sandman comes standard with Keymo mount and built like a tank for around the same pricepoint. Why ever go Nomad?
I could see if it was a dedicated can the direct thread would be nice, but if ive got a grand plus piece of equipment im going to find every way possible to use it. But thats just me
Because Key-Mo is heavy and long and regular DA muzzle devices are also heavy themselves, leading to a mount/adapter weight penalty of a little over 8 oz. I could run Key-Mo on my Nomad, but it's just too heavy and bulky, not the best option out there for most uses IMO.
With the Nomad you get a shorter, lighter, quieter suppressor that can run direct thread, or a number of other QD or TOMB systems, most of which are fairly light/short, including Plan A, Plan B, YHM Kurtz, Area 419, Centrix, Xenomorph (soon), etc. Also if you do have a bunch of DA muzzle devices and don't mind the weight/handling impact, Key-Mo is still an option.
I honestly don't see any reason to go with a Sandman these days unless your main use is hammering rounds through MGs or SBRs as fast as you can.
These days for bolt gun use and slow fire AR, I'd probably go with the Nomad Ti. It's the same length/performance as a Nomad 30, but only weighs 9.6 oz in DT, which in comparison, is only about an oz heavier than a Key-Mo/brake combo by itself.
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Ive got a sandman l. from my understanding a few of the differences are the materials they used and the dimensions. sandman is smaller in diameter. and the sandman series is built full auto rated. whatever you can throw at it itll take. the nomad on the other hand cant take the heat. its not full auto rated. great thing about these cans is if you are ok with their muzzle devices, one suppressor can work for all your rifles 300wm down to 556. and even if youre not ok with their muzzle devices other companies like son of liberty make compatible hider/brakes. When I shoot subs out of my Rem CSR with the sandman its movie quiet. If you search hard enough on youtube you can find videos of people shooting each to get a better idea of what "tone" they are. I would say my sandman has more of a mid range sound to it, with less or a high frequency pop. Thats all i got. Hope it helps.
Uh no...I have personally melted down a nomad in a destruction test... it's full auto rated I can assure you.
The difference as you pointed out, is the build materials and it's intended purpose.
The sandman series is meant to be able to live on a full auto SBR*. There is a big difference between a SBR and a full length rifle in terms of what the baffles need to be made out of in order to survive and function
I see what youre saying. but not everyone on the interwebs agree with you. some people state that the rating is different between the two.
Right off deadairs website it says the nomad has no barrel length restrictions.
You are right tho different materials for different intended purposes.
I honestly dont know, I can only repeat what other people have said in reviews. but you melting down a suppressor isnt a strong argument that its full auto rated.
They are both SBR full auto rated... The key word being rated. You said a nomad "can't take the heat" which is bs bud.
Most mfg know most guys do not own a full auto SBR and so to warranty a can from time to time is built into the cost of the can as it's marketed to be full auto rated with no barrel restrictions.
Can a nomad take some full auto abuse on an SBR? Sure....
Will it last longer than a sandman exclusively in that role? No
The nomad held up under sustained full auto fire np that's my only point in bringing up the test.
The tone on the nomad is way deeper than any of the sandman cans I have seen metered.
.....the nomad cant take the heat that the sandman can.... bud. difference in materials.
Ive actually talked to dead air about this very topic and have done my best to communicate what they told me. I just emailed them in hopes to get something in writing from them and will post when I hear back. other than that I have zero desire to continue this back and forth with you. Good day sir.
Ive actually talked to dead air about this very topic and have done my best to communicate what they told me. I just emailed them in hopes to get something in writing from them and will post when I hear back. other than that I have zero desire to continue this back and forth with you. Good day sir.
Boys, thanks for all the great information. Glad to see the post took on a life it’s own with a little heated debate even. As only knowing enough about cans as having one issued and using it for CQB and Recce patrols, I appreciate the detailed info. Keep it coming.
When I bought my first can I thought itd be my last.... well its not looking that way now
If you need the strongest can for whatever reason, the Sandman line is it. Otherwise, the Nomad line is able to adapt to most scenarios very well.
Hansohn summed it up, the nomad is the right choice for 90% of people (lighter, quieter, modular mounting, strong enough).
If it wasn't such a hassle I would consider trading my Nomad 30 off for the Ti, but it is what it is. For the kind of shooting I do the difference in toughness really doesn't matter, mostly hunting/LR bolt gun and slow fire AR, my cans never get up to the ~800 deg level where Ti has problems.
As it is, I think I might just add a Nomad Ti to the top of the stack, it's not considered an addiction until you edge past 1 on your cans to hosts ratio right?
Sorry I missed this. I guess I need to turn on notifications or something. I've had my head down working on our new taper mount, and times are just crazy busy in general.
Here's my take on it all from the designer and how we positioned the Nomad and Sandman in the lineup:
For full auto, continuous, heavy shooting, there's just nothing that beats the Sandman. The KeyMount mounting system is welded into it and it doesn't come loose on the muzzle device when shooting. The stellite baffles handle erosion better than any other material out there. It also comes off when you want. It's known for very low backpressure and is very "friendly" for DI guns in that it allows for easy set up to get them hearing safe at the ejection port (i.e. changing out buffer weight, gas block adjustment, A5 buffer system, etc.). Many suppressors will require all of the above mods, where the Sandman-S or especially the -K may just require one of the above. That all depends on many factors, hence the term that it's "friendly" for hearing safe setup. The rifle is usually dialed in pretty quickly.
The Nomad will still take full auto fire and even sustained hard use. Heat is only the enemy in terms of baffle erosion. The 17-4 stainless is crazy strong, but will begin to wear before stellite will at those high temps. Note that it takes sustained high temps and firing schedules to see this, though. If you get a suppressor glowing red hot every time you're out shooting, then the Sandman is for you. I've ran many Nomads in full auto tests I can tell you that a few mag dump sessions of 4-6 straight mags of full auto use will begin to impinge the face of the blast baffle and you'll see roughness along the bore-line--but no increase in diameter of the bore due to wear. Otherwise, the Nomad will offer you more options. If you have a favorite mount on all of your rifles, then it let's you still run with that if the manufacturer provides an adapter for it.
It's also quieter than the Sandman-S and is lighter. It has a super efficient baffle stack that is not a standard cone design. It redirects gas into secondary chambers and it also allows that gas to return back across the bore-line to impede reverse flow back down the bore. The net effect is backpressure that is on par with the Sandman-S (which is awesome as mentioned above), while still being efficient at the muzzle. Many suppressors that are super efficient at the muzzle will massively drive up backpressure (i.e. the Omega 300). You'll also find that the Nomad works incredibly well on subsonic ammo and shines even more as the pressure goes up with supersonic cartridges.
The Nomad's baffle structure is like a lattice bridge where it directs the forces to reinforced points. The welded joints you see between the baffle sections are super thick and that's where all the hoop stress is diverted. That's why it has a higher caliber rating than the Sandman series (300 Norma Mag).
I hope that helps answer some questions!
Todd Magee
Dead Air Engineering
That was very informative. Thank you!
Do tell us more about this, please!
Theyve teased it on their instagram/social media — it’s called the xenomorph So google that.
theyre not releasing a lot of details yet so there’s there’s not a lot of public info, looks like it might still be a couple months from release.
theyve Also stated they want to make sure they manufacture a lot of units before releasing to avoid the kind of blowback (suppressor pun) they’ve been taking with the Keymo and other accessories being very hard to find in stock anywhere the past 3-6 months.
If you’re planning on running the suppressor on a truck gun or walking through woods the Sandman S to me is more study and has a smaller profile then the nomad. I’ve never handled a nomad but have sandman suppressor and it’s built like a tank.
Todd,
Thanks for all the input and specs. Looking forward to the can when it arrives.
I just ordered the Nomad-L w E-brake as my first can. (See y’all in 6-9....) Thing is absolutely huge, but has the greatest noise suppression based on all the data I could uncover. The Nomad Ti was sexy but I wanted max suppression.
This is intended as a suppressor for prone and bench. I’m guessing the first time the big bastard gets caught in a barricade in my first PRS match I’ll head back to my dealer for a TBAC-Ultra 5 or 7.....
This is intended as a suppressor for prone and bench. I’m guessing the first time the big bastard gets caught in a barricade in my first PRS match I’ll head back to my dealer for a TBAC-Ultra 5 or 7.....
“The KeyMount mounting system is welded into it and it doesn't come loose on the muzzle device when shooting. The stellite baffles handle erosion better than any other material out there. It also comes off when you want.”
These are the reasons I chose the sandman. I wanted a can that can be switched between rifles with no zero drift, and that will have a long service lifespan.
These are the reasons I chose the sandman. I wanted a can that can be switched between rifles with no zero drift, and that will have a long service lifespan.
The Nomad can attach to not only Dead Air muzzle devices but also SilencerCo ASR and Q muzzle devices if you already have the quick detach adapter for those devices. The female thread pitch on the inside of the Nomad is compatible with the thread pitch on those QD adapters.
My main concern with threads is the potential to loosen with heat and recoil. I read an article about it, probably something dead air put out. So the welding might address a potential issue that could arise without it, but I don’t know for sure. And I was under the impression that dead air’s patent ensures that only the dead air muzzle brake is keyed to force it to be mounted the same way every time, so there’s no change of zero. On the other hand, I think you could mark the suppressor and brake in such a way that you line it up the same way every time.
I saw the same thing about direct thread coming loose.
I can also see Dead Air not “guaranteeing” POI w the other systems. My guess is you’d need to check POI whenever you move the can to a new rifle.
I can also see Dead Air not “guaranteeing” POI w the other systems. My guess is you’d need to check POI whenever you move the can to a new rifle.
I have a Sandman S and Ti. My Ti has never come loose on anything I have attached it to. 300BLK Subs, 6.5CM and 300WSM.
My S never comes loose and comes off easily when done shooting. 5.56, 300BLK Supers and 7.62.
Waiting on my Nomad Ti. That is 6-9 months. Will probably stay direct thread and be used on my 300WSM and 6.5CM bolt guns. Check should be cashed sometime this week.
My S never comes loose and comes off easily when done shooting. 5.56, 300BLK Supers and 7.62.
Waiting on my Nomad Ti. That is 6-9 months. Will probably stay direct thread and be used on my 300WSM and 6.5CM bolt guns. Check should be cashed sometime this week.
I went Nomad-L plus EBrake for better sound suppression and recoil and muzzle rise reduction. It’s a beast. Long and heavy. The Nomad Ti sure was sexy but I went with big Bertha.
These are the cans i'm considering as well. Am leaning more towards Ti. Is the Nomad TI "louder" than the Nomad-L? Apologies for the noob question
Db is not everything in a can, it helps, don't get me wrong. If the Ti is something you are interested in for a specific purpose, like hunting, then get it. Should still wear hearing protection even with cans, cans are still not exactly hearing safe. You can just get away with a lesser NRR rating.
As long as you buy a quality can (TBAC, Dead Air or Silencer Co) you shouldn't have any bad experience with either a medium sized can or a long can. Only length that you will probably not be happy, and would not get as a first time buyer is what are sometimes referred to as K cans. Such as the Sandman K, or a TBAC Ultra 5. These are short cans, that help knock down some of the noise, but is still unpleasant to hear. I do not own one, and IMO, it is for people that have all the other cans they could want and want something to make a small package.
As long as you buy a quality can (TBAC, Dead Air or Silencer Co) you shouldn't have any bad experience with either a medium sized can or a long can. Only length that you will probably not be happy, and would not get as a first time buyer is what are sometimes referred to as K cans. Such as the Sandman K, or a TBAC Ultra 5. These are short cans, that help knock down some of the noise, but is still unpleasant to hear. I do not own one, and IMO, it is for people that have all the other cans they could want and want something to make a small package.
Thanks for the input and I concur with your statement that while cans help in reducing decibels, ear protection is vital as well. That being said, as an average hunter who does not own sbr or auto rifles (at this time), i'm researching/looking for something that meets my current needs and I think the Ti may be the "perfect fit" as it is light and I will strictly use it only for semi-auto and hunting rifles.
The Nomad 30 is a nice size/performance combo for those uses, and I like mine. Buying now I'd go with the Ti as it has the length and performance of the original Nomad with a 30% weight reduction... Definitely a plus for anything you are hanging on your muzzle and toting around, possibly swinging and shooting unsupported.
Thanks for the input! my only "gripe" with the Ti is that it only comes in one finish. It's too shiny for my taste lol
Yes. Can Cerakote just about anything. But naked Ti is sexy when it gets hot and starts to turn colors.
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