F T/R Competition Savage FTR 308 win

[savageshooter86]

Not wanting load data, but was wanting to see what bullets you have had best loads with in this factory rifle

Please share what bullet you use in this rifle. Pics of best group would be fun too


I have tried Berger 168 and Sierra 175 with nothing solid/repeatable yet

 

[You-Two]

All kinds of good info already out there for the Savage F/TR in .308, just do a google search on here or accurateshooter.com.

Mine likes the Nosler 155CC, Berger 155.5 FB, Nosler 175CC, and 175SMK. The Berger 185s are popular also.

Match primers of some sort, Lapua brass, and Varget are hard to screw up. H4895, 8208XBR, or 4064 too.

 

[Tempest 455]

Just got mine and started testing. Only shot it twice but it shot well w/ 175g SMK's.

I seated them at 2.780".

 

[savageshooter86]

have you played with action screw torque setting yet?

 

[divesniper]

I've had mine for over a year now and it is the only rifle I have used in competition. I use Black Hills .308 175 gr. SMK HPBT. Its a factory round so of course it is not going to be perfect but it has gotten the job done for me. I have been able to consistently get sub-8 inch groupings at 1150 yards with that round.

 

[RStewart]

Berger 155.5 FB

 

[savageshooter86]

Thanks. That seems to be a popular bullet and assume pushing them over 2950 fps in the majority of rifles with 30+" barrels

 

[RStewart]

Thanks. That seems to be a popular bullet and assume pushing them over 2950 fps in the majority of rifles with 30+" barrels

They shot very well in my Savage FTR.
Also in my new rifle. Same twist and powder in both. Almost likes it at the same seating depth, too. 1:12 Krieger barrel at 30". 8208 XBR powder. .070" off the lands. 3071 fps muzzle velocity. YMMV

I have also started testing the Sierra 155 Palma (#2156) in the rifle and so far it looks encouraging as far as groupings. No speeds yet.

 

[jsthntn247]

They shot very well in my Savage FTR.
Also in my new rifle. Same twist and powder in both. Almost likes it at the same seating depth, too. 1:12 Krieger barrel at 30". 8208 XBR powder. .070" off the lands. 3071 fps muzzle velocity. YMMV

I have also started testing the Sierra 155 Palma (#2156) in the rifle and so far it looks encouraging as far as groupings. No speeds yet.

Quite tweaking and testing things, no need for you getting high master!

 

[savageshooter86]

had some old 155BT Berger given to me to try. Hoping the rifle shows it will like these lite bullets. If not then something major needs to happen. Gun shoots well one day and very next looks like a shotgun. No consistency. Either new powder or bullets or both or bedding or new barrel is next

 

[Tempest 455]

Just curious. How are you measuring powder and COAL? I just went through that nightmare last fall.

 

[savageshooter86]

Hornady bullet comparator to ogive. Measure each round. Weighing powder to the single kernel on GP 250 scale. FL size every time and bump shoulder 1-2 thous and running 1.5 thous bullet pull.

 

[Tempest 455]

OK. Just trying to eliminate any other variables.

I had a caliper that was bad and did not know it.

 

[savageshooter86]

hoping to get to the range Tuesday(weather permitting) and try the Berger 155 hybrid using 8208 and jumping them 15 thous. The Berger 155 BT using Varget showed some promise

 

[skiutah02]

Here is my OCW with SMK Palma 155, 8208XBR from a Savage 12 FTR. The groups go across the 1st 4 boxes then the lower 3. Velocities are in pen and was shot at 12oC. Any thoughts?

 

[jsthntn247]

44.0 is looking good but I would keep going up on the powder charge you should hit on another node around 45.3.

 

[Aquatic_Robotic]

I am no expert, but this is what I see immediately. IMHO The groups where you have low velocity spread ie, low SD, it shot tight. In the groups where your SD is large so are the groups. Not sure what is causing this, but something in your reloading process is causing too much variation in SD. When you solve this problem, it looks like the loads will be good. Look at the SD of group 1 with 41 grains and then group 2 with 41.5. Not that much difference in 1/2 grain of powder, but big difference in SD, producing much more open grouping.

 

[skiutah02]

Thanks for the thoughts. I'm somewhat new to this, but how much influence will temp have on my development. Namely, is it OK to develop a load at 10-20oF that you will shoot at 75-95? My understanding is that 8208 is very temp stable, but that is only one variable. Anxious to keep testing, but if I am just wasting time/money, I guess I could wait until spring. FYI it is -22oF right now.

 

[savageshooter86]

I would keep going up in charge weights. Those bullets if shot at 1000 need to be moving above 2950 most likely

I just scored 16# of 8208 so now the real load work can begin

Seems most are 45-45.5 with this load

 

[skiutah02]

Ask and ye shall receive. I only went up to 44.9 since 1) it was -12oF outside and I was freezing my (fingers) off at the range 20 miles away and did not want to have any problems (aka boom) out there solo (who's dumb enough to be testing loads at this temp). Any thoughts as to temp effects when I start shooting these at 90oF+. Does seems that someone knows what they are are talking about with a predicted node ca 45.3. Looks like a scatter node starting at 44.9. I did some primer tests also comparing Fed210 and WLR at the bottom. WLR looks interesting...



Drew

 

[skiutah02]

Warmed up to 18oF on Christmas and the wife let me go play. Had the whole range to myself, although I had to trudge through 12 in of snow. As suggested, finished up the higher charge weight OCW. jsthntn247 called it. Can you save me some time and money and just tell me where all of my rifles will find their accuracy node? If this charge holds up at higher temps of the summer, I think I will use 45.1-45.2 for 800-1000 yds, but 44.0 gr for 100-600. I started to see pressure signs at 45.3 and 45.5 so I did not shoot the 45.7s I had prepared. Surprised at how much more powder is necessary to see 100 fps increase. Can't wait to try these out at longer range when it gets warmer....Drew

 

[jsthntn247]

Nodes are usually 3% apart with a scatter node in the middle. I would run 45.2 all year long if I was you.

 

[savageshooter86]

I would do seating depth test now to dial in the load. In 003 increments. Will apprise you what that will do for a load.

How far off lands did you start off with?

 

[skiutah02]

Started at 0.010 jump then tried 0.005 0.020 and 0.025 jump. From 100 yds seemed mostly insensitive to this parameter (see picture). My currently plan (but open to suggestions) is to try this load when it gets warmer (no sooner than April unfortunately) and if happy with it, tune by adjusting the rifle screws and see if that works. Tried 5 different primers (WLP was pretty accurate, but BR2 gave both accuracy and good ES on velocities). Almost all of my postings are with BR2.

 

[RStewart]

Started at 0.010 jump then tried 0.005 0.020 and 0.025 jump. From 100 yds seemed mostly insensitive to this parameter (see picture). My currently plan (but open to suggestions) is to try this load when it gets warmer (no sooner than April unfortunately) and if happy with it, tune by adjusting the rifle screws and see if that works. Tried 5 different primers (WLP was pretty accurate, but BR2 gave both accuracy and good ES on velocities). Almost all of my postings are with BR2.
View attachment 25151

For what it's worth, I found my most consistent load jumping .070" with 44.6 gr of 8208 in a 1:12 30" barrel. Wolf primers. 2974 fps.
8208 is supposed to be very temperature insensitive, so shooting in warmer weather may not change much, if anything. But you never know.
YMMV

 

[skiutah02]

For what it's worth, I found my most consistent load jumping .070" with 44.6 gr of 8208 in a 1:12 30" barrel. Wolf primers. 2974 fps.
8208 is supposed to be very temperature insensitive, so shooting in warmer weather may not change much, if anything. But you never know.
YMMV

I had seen that above, but thanks for the reminder. That is pretty far away from the lands, did you work you way back from about where I am and saw improvements? From the pictures that I showed, I'm guessing that is the limit of my skill at the moment. I'll know more when I can try at distance and prone (and not battling the elements as much). I will be curious to try -70 if you indeed found noticeable improvement over -10, but I suspect I will be the weakest link (esp reading wind) vs seating at -10 vs -70. I just taught myself to shoot in May. I feel pretty good about my ability to get a load developed, but trigger technique, etc. is a current work-in-progress. I'm not sure if everyone is quoting MOA (max) vs. MOA (CTC), but either <.5 MOA or <0.2 MOA is about the best I can do. When Wolf primers become available in my area again, I've heard very good things about them. All of my experience so far is shooting 223 in two local mid-range F-class event (600 yds). It was fun and I am looking to be more competitive with the Savage AND try 1000 yds. This forum has been very informative during the past summer. Thanks, Drew

 

[RStewart]

When I started working with the 155.5's I found this article from Berger that I used as a guide. Hope it helps.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/

I also shoot a .223 and am using the same method working with the 90 VLD's.

 

[savageshooter86]

how has this initial seating depth reference from Berger worked so far?

 

[skiutah02]

When I started working with the 155.5's I found this article from Berger that I used as a guide. Hope it helps.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/getting-the-best-precision-and-accuracy-from-vld-bullets-in-your-rifle/

I also shoot a .223 and am using the same method working with the 90 VLD's.

OK, I see. I have seen this article in the past and tried it when I was experimenting with 80 and 90 VLD in my 223 for fclass (no luck, throat too short in my AR). I though that this method and observation was unique to the VLDs. Do you think it will work with the Sierra 2156s that I am shooting?

 

[RStewart]

how has this initial seating depth reference from Berger worked so far?

For me it has worked well. If I had not used it I would have wasted a lot of ammo trying to find what works when I have always heard that Bergers like to be in the lands. I would have never thought to jump this far.

 

[RStewart]

OK, I see. I have seen this article in the past and tried it when I was experimenting with 80 and 90 VLD in my 223 for fclass (no luck, throat too short in my AR). I though that this method and observation was unique to the VLDs. Do you think it will work with the Sierra 2156s that I am shooting?

When I tried the same test in my rifle I am test loading the 2156s .035" off the lands. I can't say yet if it is the optimum load, but it shows a lot of promise.

I have had some luck loading the Berger 90's and the load shoots great to 600, but my rifle is not throated for the longer bullet, so speeds are limited. I think my next barrel is going to be chambered for the 90.

 

[skiutah02]

Something to ponder over winter, I guess. Winter in Fargo has arrived. Tried to get out one last time today, but the 35 mph winds and falling temps convinced me otherwise. Talking 45 below wind chills...Drew

 

[WhiteHorze]

No insult intended but if your getting inconsistent results day to day, have you tried videotaping yourself while you shoot and then reviewing the tape for Breathing, Hand position, Body position, ect?

 

[skiutah02]

No insult intended but if your getting inconsistent results day to day, have you tried videotaping yourself while you shoot and then reviewing the tape for Breathing, Hand position, Body position, ect?

Not sure what/who this is directed to? Could you elaborate? Drew

 

[DGD6MM]

Not sure what/who this is directed to? Could you elaborate? Drew

Andrew stated the inconsistinsy from day to day. Whitehorse could be on to something.

 

[skiutah02]

Andrew stated the inconsistinsy from day to day. Whitehorse could be on to something.

Gotcha.

 

[savageshooter86]

Nope sure haven't but guarantee it isn't the shooter. Me and 2 other shooters tried shooting and got same results. Even off a rock solid bench rest. And seeing how I can shoot their rifles sub 0.3" 5 shot groups too.

 

[savageshooter86]

Anyone know what reamer Savage uses in the FTR 308?

 

[skiutah02]

When I tried the same test in my rifle I am test loading the 2156s .035" off the lands. I can't say yet if it is the optimum load, but it shows a lot of promise.

I have had some luck loading the Berger 90's and the load shoots great to 600, but my rifle is not throated for the longer bullet, so speeds are limited. I think my next barrel is going to be chambered for the 90.

It warmed above freezing for the first time in a while, so I played a bit with seating as suggested at 300 yds. Trudging through the snow was not too fun, but it was good to know. Here are some picts.

The first is 0.005 of lands the other is 0.040 off lands. I have tried from jammed 10 thou to 0.045 jumped. There was very little difference between any, except when testing at -40 at 200 yds, all four shots went in one hole (slightly better than -0.005) so these are the ones that I tested at 300 yds. One thing that makes me a bit concerned about using -0.040 is that moved 5 thou either way will open it up.

 

[jim_k]

It warmed above freezing for the first time in a while, so I played a bit with seating as suggested at 300 yds. Trudging through the snow was not too fun, but it was good to know. Here are some picts.

The first is 0.005 of lands the other is 0.040 off lands. I have tried from jammed 10 thou to 0.045 jumped. There was very little difference between any, except when testing at -40 at 200 yds, all four shots went in one hole (slightly better than -0.005) so these are the ones that I tested at 300 yds. One thing that makes me a bit concerned about using -0.040 is that moved 5 thou either way will open it up.

View attachment 30430View attachment 30431

Go ahead and back them off farther: .030, .040, .050, .060, .070, then see what looks good. Don't do the testing at 300 yds., since there are too many variables. You still should be at 100 yds., then when you find a "good spot" start moving the seating depth by .005 each test, or something along those lines that appeals to you. Not back .005 from the lands, but something less than .250 jump. That said, I had a 6.5x55 Swede that grouped .29" with Berger 140 VLD jumping exactly .250. ?
Jim

 

[skiutah02]

Go ahead and back them off farther: .030, .040, .050, .060, .070, then see what looks good. Don't do the testing at 300 yds., since there are too many variables. You still should be at 100 yds., then when you find a "good spot" start moving the seating depth by .005 each test, or something along those lines that appeals to you. Not back .005 from the lands, but something less than .250 jump. That said, I had a 6.5x55 Swede that grouped .29" with Berger 140 VLD jumping exactly .250. ?
Jim

Its hard to believe that they are more accurate jumping that far, but the proof is in the target, I guess. I've read alot of opinions, but what are your thoughts about playing with seating before optimizing powder charge. Some seem to say that a bullet/gun's best combo for seating depth is a "constant" (i.e. no need for powder charge to be "best" before finding an optimum seating depth). This does seem counter-intuitive to me as both can effect pressure (although small seating movements seem to have very small effects (I use a magnetospeed). The powder charge used for this test is not my optimal charge, but is a lower velocity node (found at a 20 oF lower temp), with virgin brass and the reason that I chose 300 yds is that this charge and the other node basically shoot one hole at 100yds, so it is difficult to see any differences in seating. At this point I am tweeking at the limit of my current shooting ability in the cold and wind, and I would rather be doing this prone (my F-Class position) and at competition temp before going crazy with the minutiae. It will be several months before I can do that, so I an playing around a little, keeping current with practice and fire-forming some new brass. I don't know if you saw above posts, but am new to the shooting sports, just learned to compete in Aug and want to try this new 308 at 1000 FTR this summer. This is fun and addictive. \

Thanks for the info, I will do the longer jumping test soon.


Drew

 

[RStewart]

Go ahead and back them off farther: .030, .040, .050, .060, .070, then see what looks good. Don't do the testing at 300 yds., since there are too many variables. You still should be at 100 yds., then when you find a "good spot" start moving the seating depth by .005 each test, or something along those lines that appeals to you. Not back .005 from the lands, but something less than .250 jump. That said, I had a 6.5x55 Swede that grouped .29" with Berger 140 VLD jumping exactly .250. ?
Jim

My most accurate load with the 155.5 is .070" off the lands in my rifle.


Since my last post I had a chance to do more shooting of the Sierra Palma 2156. I had to up the powder .4 grains to keep the speed up equal to the Berger 155.5, but both are travelling at 2995 fps muzzle velocity.
The 2156 is loaded .035" off the lands. Both have shot well at 600 yards in competition.

I load develop at 100 and test at 600.

 

[jim_k]

I personally use QuikLoad data for each load, so the powder charge is slightly higher each time I back out the bullet some. I combine the QuikLoad data with the optimal barrel time data. That seems to accomplish both things for me at the same time. If a load does not show enough velocity, I don't test it.
Jim

 

[savageshooter86]

your 5 thous off is actually a lot better than your 40 thous load is. Those don't even look close to me. Target 1 shot about the height of the orange sticker in vertical. The big jump load shot a lot more vertical.

So to me that clearly shows the 5 jump is better LR potential. You want least amount of vertical

 

[skiutah02]

your 5 thous off is actually a lot better than your 40 thous load is. Those don't even look close to me. Target 1 shot about the height of the orange sticker in vertical. The big jump load shot a lot more vertical.

So to me that clearly shows the 5 jump is better LR potential. You want least amount of vertical

Thanks, its worth mentioning that the 5 thou is a 2" sticker and the 40 thou is a 1" sticker, if that makes any difference to you. Appreciate the input. Drew

 

[Tempest 455]

My 12 Benchrest model is most accurate at .025" jump with a 175 SMK.

 

[jim_k]

Just noticed poster's question about testing jump. Yes, first find the best group using different bullet jumps, then adjust the load. I still do what I posted, that is, increase the powder charge as the jump increases, and vice versa. If you shoot 3-to-5-shot groups with different jumps, on the same day, at the same type target, you'll see something like the ladder tests, where 2-3 jumps seem much better than the others. Then work between those numbers to find to best jump, shooting at least 5 shots with each jump, when you get down to the last test.
Jim

 

[skiutah02]

Just noticed poster's question about testing jump. Yes, first find the best group using different bullet jumps, then adjust the load. I still do what I posted, that is, increase the powder charge as the jump increases, and vice versa. If you shoot 3-to-5-shot groups with different jumps, on the same day, at the same type target, you'll see something like the ladder tests, where 2-3 jumps seem much better than the others. Then work between those numbers to find to best jump, shooting at least 5 shots with each jump, when you get down to the last test.
Jim

OK, thanks. I initially did a OCW then played around with seating at the "best" charge weight identified by the OCW. Guess I'll take a step back in warmer weather and see if I can tweek it. Still feel that the .25 to .5 MOA this load/rifle (with 155 2156 SMK) gives consistently at 100-300 yds is shooter limited and probably less that my wind reading ability at 600+ at this point so practice reading wind will likely be more valuable than squeezing the last 0.100 MOA out of it (seen a quote to this effect on this forum more than once, and I couldn't agree more). Drew