Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

[sniper848]

I have narrowed it down to these two rifles, they look identical and I've read good reviews on both of them. So I think I will let you guys tell me what you think.
http://savagearms.com/12Varminter.htm
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=7890&return=Y
These gus both seem very good, but I don't know which one is better. How is the action on both of the guns? How accurate are they? etc.
Thanks

P.S. I am probably taking up half of the rifles page with all my posts, sorry!

 

[long range dogr]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

Take the savage and run!!!!!!

 

[exhogflyer]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

Well, this is subjective but....I have both rifles( though not in the same caliber).Rugers are good shooting rifles though I dare say not quite in the same league as Savage.Savages have A)better factory triggers B)are easier to change barrels on/better supported in the aftermarket C)better scope mounting arrangement( various selection of bases..try to find a 20 moa base for a Ruger) D) MY OPINION based on what I've seen as a box stock rifle slightly more accuracy.This last part may start a war, but please keep in mind I'm not talking big difference here either.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

get the savage, but try this one instead......

http://www.savagearms.com/12PrecVarm.htm

what caliber are you going with and what will be the primary use for the weapon?

 

[sniper848]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

Well I haven't really decided on caliber yet. I was looking at the .223 as an introductory calliber to long range shooting, but after reading different reviews I am reconsidering it.
I read one review saying that the .243 is a good all around caliber, is this true? I was originally thinking .308, but I am not sure about the recoil and a few people here on the forum suggested starting off small. Why do you say get the Model 12 Long Range Precision Varminter over the Model 12 Series Varminter Low Profile?

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target


...Sniper848, what made you decide to eschew the Tikka...???...

...this thread is of more than casual interest to me as I am in much the same position as you, except want a 6.5 of some sort...

...I have always liked Ruger rifles as well, having owned a number of them, but learned form reading these froums that a Ruger would probably not be the optimal way to go for ELR shooting...

...that said, the Ruger rifle you (and I) like comes in 6.5 Creedmore and I am eyeing it still...

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Exhogflyer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well, this is subjective but....I have both rifles( though not in the same caliber).Rugers are good shooting rifles though I dare say not quite in the same league as Savage.Savages have A)better factory triggers B)are easier to change barrels on/better supported in the aftermarket C)better scope mounting arrangement( various selection of bases..try to find a 20 moa base for a Ruger) D) MY OPINION based on what I've seen as a box stock rifle slightly more accuracy.This last part may start a war, but please keep in mind I'm not talking big difference here either. </div></div>

...there are a lot of things I like about the Ruger more than the Savage, but too many points here to ignore...

 

[sniper848]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

Well I handled a Tikka T3 and the stock was not right for me at all, it feels cheap. The bolt was smooth and the overall finish was good, however it was not my cup of tea. This was the regular T3, so I can't comment on the varmint. Although to my understanding the Varmint uses the same stock as the regular T3, but with a few ad ons.

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

I own that Savage, though of a slightly earlier gemneration, prior to the addition of the large bolt knob. Other than that, it is identical and it is a very nice, very accurate rifle, with a phenominally good trigger. Shop carefullay as you should be able to find it for less than $991.00!

 

[alien319]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

All Tikkas I have seen, have shot extremely well for their price. But between those to you mentioned, I would get the Savage.

 

[sniper848]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

"OutRider" Why exactly do you want a 6.5 are there advantages to these for longe range?

 

[sniper848]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

Thanks, so far the best I have found is about 900.

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper848</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I handled a Tikka T3 and the stock was not right for me at all, it feels cheap. The bolt was smooth and the overall finish was good, however it was not my cup of tea. This was the regular T3, so I can't comment on the varmint. Although to my understanding the Varmint uses the same stock as the regular T3, but with a few ad ons. </div></div>




...I see...thanks...

...the problem I have with the Savage rifles is they do not come in the cartidge I am currently the most interested in, the 6.5 Creedmore...

...the 12F Savage rifles do come in 6.5/284 Norma, which would be ok, but they are not configured the same (desired) way the varmit series of rifles are...

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper848</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I haven't really decided on caliber yet. I was looking at the .223 as an introductory calliber to long range shooting, but after reading different reviews I am reconsidering it.
I read one review saying that the .243 is a good all around caliber, is this true? I was originally thinking .308, but I am not sure about the recoil and a few people here on the forum suggested starting off small. Why do you say get the Model 12 Long Range Precision Varminter over the Model 12 Series Varminter Low Profile?</div></div>

the reason i said the varminter over the wooden stockis because the varmenter comes with an hs precision stock which is a much better stock. 2, 223 would be an awesome intro rifle for anyone. 243's are good but you have to remember one thing, a 243 runs a 6mm bullet, wi=hich would wear a barrel down much more faster than a 223 or 308. and with the recoil of the 308, that just depends on your size and shoulder strength. but as my teacher once said, in order to get used to the recoil of a 308 u must learn to shoot one first

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper848</div><div class="ubbcode-body">"OutRider" Why exactly do you want a 6.5 are there advantages to these for longe range? </div></div>

...yes...

...you have the down range external ballistics of a 300 mag using a lighter bullet and a 308 sized case...

 

[sniper848]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

How does a 6mm bullet wear down a barrel faster than the .223 or .308? I'm confused.

 

[coulthard_west]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

its moving a hell of a lot faster. i get a 175 smk in my 308 at about 2730 out a custom tube. a 243 is basically a 308 case necked down to 6mm. so immagine a 308 pushing a 90 gr projectile vs what i mentioned earlier, youd be able to get that 90 around 34oo to maybe 3500 fps. thats how the barrel would get worn down faster. i got 4000 through my factory savage barrel before i changed it and i know people that barely got 2000 out of a 243. just depends on what you want

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

...a 223 is a mild load comared to a 243...

...a 22-250 or a 220 Swift would wear out the bore at an even greater rate than the 243 in most cases...

...it is a matter of how much powder a given cartridge case holds in relation to it's bore size...

 

[sniper848]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

Well I think I'll go with the .223 for now. Good luck on finding a rifle!

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: s.i.t.</div><div class="ubbcode-body">its moving a hell of a lot faster. i get a 175 smk in my 308 at about 2730 out a custom tube. a 243 is basically a 308 case necked down to 6mm. so immagine a 308 pushing a 90 gr projectile vs what i mentioned earlier, youd be able to get that 90 around 34oo to maybe 3500 fps. thats how the barrel would get worn down faster. i got 4000 through my factory savage barrel before i changed it and i know people that barely got 2000 out of a 243. just depends on what you want </div></div>

..excatly...

...a 223 with a 70 grn bullet has about the same velocity as the 175 grn 308 bullet...

...it's almost like a formula...

...the 6.5's based on the 308 case are a nice compromise...

...the 6.5-284 Norma is a bit on the hot side and will degrade the bore at a rate comaprable to the 243...

...the Idea is that, unlike a hunting rifle, you will be shooting a <span style="font-style: italic">lot</span> of ammo over known distances, and require an even higher standard of accuacy to remain competive...

...a barrel that has lost it's edge for long range target shooting may well have enough accuracy left to make a fine field gun...

...hunting rifles do not get as many round through them, either, and you are often trying to guess the range and have concerns over <span style="font-style: italic">terminal</span> ballistics that generaly do not apply to target shooting...

...a higher velocity cartidge has an advantage in this venue...

 

[Queequeg]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

Outrider,

I also have a Savage in .308 that I want to rebarrel in 6.5 Creedmoore. It's currently a sporter and a great candidate for an upgrade, though it is hardly worn out with only 350 rounds through it. I want a Varmint contour barrel or perhaps a little heavier.

Anyway, check out Jim Briggs of Northlander supply as he can get you set up in 6.5 Creedmoore if you want to bulid one. There are others who can help you rebarrel a used Savage too and save some coin if that is an option you would consider.

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper848</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I think I'll go with the .223 for now. Good luck on finding a rifle! </div></div>

...if you are going with the Savage, give the 6 Norma BR a look before you pull the trigger...

 

[chadg]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

Just go with the savage then you can make it look like this.Try that with a ruger.Aftermarket parts are few and far between.

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: queequeg</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Outrider,

I also have a Savage in .308 that I want to rebarrel in 6.5 Creedmoore. It's currently a sporter and a great candidate for an upgrade, though it is hardly worn out with only 350 rounds through it. I want a Varmint contour barrel or perhaps a little heavier.

Anyway, check out Jim Briggs of Northlander supply as he can get you set up in 6.5 Creedmoore if you want to bulid one. There are others who can help you rebarrel a used Savage too and save some coin if that is an option you would consider. </div></div>

...yes, that is indeed an option I would consider...thanks...

 

[chadg]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

Guess what caliber my savage above is?...............Thats right ladies........THE MYTHICAL.499...............ROFLMAO

 

[sniper848]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: OutRider</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper848</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Well I think I'll go with the .223 for now. Good luck on finding a rifle! </div></div>

...if you are going with the Savage, give the 6 Norma BR a look before you pull the trigger... </div></div>
What is so great about the 6 Norma BR, I have never heard of that before?

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

...it will shoot a little better at ELR than the 223, and not wear out the bore much faster...

..it may well be more accurate, too...

...the down side would be finding ammo, but if you start reloading, that will be a moot point...

...the upside is that any ammo you do find is likely to be quality stuff, whereas any cheepo 223 you might want to use to practice with may not be up to snuff accuracy wise...

...I don't think the diffence in cost will be signifigent for reloading between the two rounds...

...here is a cool website about that round, and a lot more...

http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

 

[sniper848]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

Thanks for all of that info man, it's helpful!
Have you decided which 6.5 round you are going with?

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: sniper848</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks for all of that info man, it's helpful!
Have you decided which 6.5 round you are going with? </div></div>

...I have a hard on for the 6.5 Creedmore...

...the 6.5-284 is too much of a barrel burner for my situation...

...they are often shot out in 1000 rounds or less...

...take your time and do some reading over on 6mmbr.com...

 

[exhogflyer]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 467</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Guess what caliber my savage above is?...............Thats right ladies........THE MYTHICAL.499...............ROFLMAO </div></div>

 

[awp762]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

+1 on the savage due to availability of parts & good smiths.

My preference in 6.5mm is the 6.5x47 Lapua. Less recoil than .308 & accurate.

Going with 223 as your first LRR is going to cost you less in components than any other option, assuming that is one of your considerations.

 

[ubet]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

Get the savage and dont look back!

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: awp762</div><div class="ubbcode-body">+1 on the savage due to availability of parts & good smiths.

My preference in 6.5mm is the 6.5x47 Lapua. Less recoil than .308 & accurate.

Going with 223 as your first LRR is going to cost you less in components than any other option, assuming that is one of your considerations.

</div></div>

...6.5x47 Lapua, 6.5 Creedmore, 260 Rem...I'd take any one of them if they were to come in the Savage, but if I got to pick, I'd pick the 6.5 Creedmore...

...imho, the improvement in windage alone would make the 6BR Norma worth the extra expence if I were <span style="font-style: italic">serious</span> about ELR shooting activities...one would not out grow the rifle quite so quickly and might even become competive with it...

 

[OutRider]

Re: Savage Model 12 Varminter vs. Ruger M77MKII Target

...of course, most of my opinion in regard to the 6.5's is based upon an article I read whilst reserching the subject, rather than actual experience...

...from what I can gather, it is not the particular cartridge so much as the components used in the loads, but methinks the 6./5 Creedmore is the one I'd like most to work with...

...the fact that the Ruger 77 target rifle comes chambered in it made that rifle attractive to me...

...I am posting this here to give Sniper848 some perspective and to try to wean him away from the .223...(LoL)

...the article: http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-shootout-260-6.5x47-6.5-creedmoor/

...one thing that I have come to understand from reading these forums is that the problem with obtaining quality brass for the 260 has largly been resolved...