Savage Won't Shoot

[cardboardkiller]

I finally got to the range today and my Savage Predator Max in 260 groups like a shotgun. I bought this rifle as a secondary deer rifle, since my TRG is so damn heavy and not suited for freehand shooting and I find myself in shooting situations where I need to shoot standing.

The kicker is the Savage is left handed, so stock choices are extremely limited for a normal hunting style stock.

The Seekins rail and Seekins rings are properly torqued, the Swarovski Z5 3-18X44 tracks true and the I checked the torque on the action screws (45 in/lbs) before I went to the range.

I bought some Federal Fusion Spitzer 120's for getting on paper. I also shot HSM 130 VLD's and Federal 140 Gamekings to see what the rifle might like for bullet weight to start working up loads.

60 rounds later, I couldn't get a group better than 5 inches. Every shot looked like a flyer. One round kinda on center, 1 or 2 several inches to the left, 1 or 2 several inches low and then 1 kind of in the center. The rifle was trying to make a half circle. I never fired more than 4 rounds a minute or so apart before letting the barrel cool or cleaning it after every 10. It wasn't windy on the range and any breeze that did blow was straight at my back.

I thought it might be me after the first 10 rounds, so I moved over to my TRG, screwed on the can, fired 2 shots, made a scope adjustment and fired a .6, 8 round group at 100 yards.

Do I dump more money into the Savage (Manners stock, bedding, etc.) or dump it, lose my ass on it and have to hump the TRG for yet another Kansas deer season or 2? I'm having a hard time with the thought of putting at least another $1000 and 8-12 months into this rifle.

I'm going to call Savage Tuesday and see if I can get some help, but I absolutely have no confidence in this rifle at this point.

Eff me.

*I checked the torque on everything again after I got back from the range. Also, while I was at the range and had the rifle bagged, I took a dollar and slid it through the barrel channel to make sure the forend wasn't contacting the barrel. It had plenty of room, even without the dollar pulled tight against the barrel.

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

Return the rifle to Savage and have them repair or replace it...something definitely isn't right assuming your base/rings/scope are good.

 

[The Surgeons Ghost]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Return the rifle to Savage and have them repair or replace it...something definitely isn't right assuming your base/rings/scope are good. </div></div>

+1 Savage will take care of it. Just give them a chance to make it right.

 

[uncledog57]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

+1 I have spoke with Patty in CS several times and she has been very helpful. Savage wants you to have a good rifle.
They will fix or replace, that is their warranty. Give them a chance to make it right.
I have a LRP 6.5CM and it shoots like a laser, Yours will too.

 

[reeljob]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

I have seen on two of my own rifles as well as my ML-10 that sometimes the base screws bottomout and they appear torqued but in reality they are loose. Take your scope off and check this. If this is the problem and the mount screws are too long touch them on the bench grinder and you should be GTG. The first time I expierenced this I had wasted alot of bullets, sabots and powder sighting in my ML10. The rifle had always shot great and the only thing I had changed was my two pc bases to a one piece. Easy fix but I was sweating at the bench. If this is not the problem than Savage will take care of you no doubt.

 

[cardboardkiller]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: reeljob</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have seen on two of my own rifles as well as my ML-10 that sometimes the base screws bottomout and they appear torqued but in reality they are loose. Take your scope off and check this. If this is the problem and the mount screws are too long touch them on the bench grinder and you should be GTG. The first time I expierenced this I had wasted alot of bullets, sabots and powder sighting in my ML10. The rifle had always shot great and the only thing I had changed was my two pc bases to a one piece. Easy fix but I was sweating at the bench. If this is not the problem than Savage will take care of you no doubt. </div></div>

Thanks for the tip. I'll check it tomorrow, I'm cleaning my TRG at the moment. If that is the case, I'll owe you a case of beer or whatever your favorite adult beverage is.

All of this wouldn't be near as frustrating but I travel all over the US and abroad for work. I'm flying out Monday for the week, then I'm home for a week, then fly out again for two and a half weeks, then home for 10 days and then I'm back on a plane and gone for another 2 weeks. That is just what I know of for the next two months. I haven't spent more than 2.5 weeks at a time at home since the beginning of March.

Kansas deer season starts the Wednesday after Thanksgiving, so my time is running out in a hurry.

 

[Joop]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

I have the Predator Max-1, as well, but in .243. It shoots .5 or better with several different handldoads of varying bullet weights. However, I would have to ask if you're sure that you checked the action screws (and not the trigger guard screw), since one of them is actually underneath the bolt release button on the accustock models (you have to press the button in to see/access it). If you were aware of that and have checked it, then nevermind and please don't take this as an insult to your intelligence. But, the first time I tried to take my stock off, this really threw me for a loop until I figured it out.

This should be one hell of a good shooter and I hope you get it sorted out, in any case.

John

 

[cardboardkiller]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Joop</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the Predator Max-1, as well, but in .243. It shoots .5 or better with several different handldoads of varying bullet weights. However, I would have to ask if you're sure that you checked the action screws (and not the trigger guard screw), since one of them is actually underneath the bolt release button on the accustock models (you have to press the button in to see/access it). If you were aware of that and have checked it, then nevermind and please don't take this as an insult to your intelligence. But, the first time I tried to take my stock off, this really threw me for a loop until I figured it out.

This should be one hell of a good shooter and I hope you get it sorted out, in any case.

John </div></div>

I had to search for the torque specs for the action screws and found a thread on another forum that had a couple of pics showing both action screws and the trigger guard screw. If I hadn't come across that thread, I wouldn't have known about the screw under the bolt release.

Thanks though.

 

[billyburl2]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

Try not cleaning it...Seriously.

 

[MagnumSecurity]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

My Savage model 116 in 270, shoots 130 Fed ammo with Barnes TSX or Fed Trophy Copper bullets extremely well. If I do my part, I have had 3/8" groups. If I am a little shaky 3/4" groups. I don't like to hand load unless necessary and with this kind of accuracy, I'm sticking with factory ammo. Once you check your other issues, you may want to try the tsx type ammo.

I also have found Savage excellent to deal with, although I have not had to send anything in.

 

[dirtking]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

The only other thing I can think of to check is that your tang if free floating. If it is being contacted anywhere it will affect accuracy. Just an idea. Good luck.

 

[Boydo]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

I currently have a savage in 30-06 that does the same thing. shoots terrible about 2.5 moa at 100m. got the same gun in 22-250 that shoots sub moa every time.

 

[jsthntn247]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

Get someone to hand load you some rounds. A manners stock won't make a damn bit of difference if it is shooting that bad. I just don't think you've fed it the ammo that it likes. Clean it good also after every 10 rounds until you get a 100 through it.

 

[Glocksteady]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

I have one that gave me fits at first. I discovered that the action screws were loose. Once they were squared away, the rifle shoots insanely accurate.

 

[SEREK82]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

Savage will take care of you trust me they have one of the best costomer serfice dept. Now in my opinion I would check every screw down to spec before sending it in.

 

[cardboardkiller]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

I checked the rail screws, they aren't too long. I was hoping this was going to be the issue, but no dice.

I have no idea how to go about checking to see if the tang is free floating. I'm no gunsmith by any means, I wish I were though.

I've never had a rifle shoot 5" groups at best, no matter what ammo I've put through it. This thing has thrown groups so large they were impacting off a Redfield target when I was aiming at the smaller diamonds on the left. We're talking close to 9". Not ammo related, especially considering I tried 3 different loads with 3 different bullets in 3 different weights.

Again, I cleaned the rifle after every ten rounds, I didn't do a "range cleaning", I cleaned this rifle just like I do at home. I used Wipeout, Kroil, clean patches, Dewey rod, Dewey jag, bore guide, and shooter's swabs. I had cleaned (and checked the torque on everything) before I went to the range. The range I went to is new and there was no one there, so I was enjoying the weather, a day without any kind of work, shooting my TRG and hanging out.

After the first hundred rounds, I typically don't clean a rifle until I get home from the range, the gun is going to be stored for a while, after hunting season (unless I'm afraid of debris in the barrel, rain, etc.) or it is new.

I am going to handload for it, but I was hoping to get a baseline with some factory ammo and make some brass to further along the load work up. Nosler brass is expensive and I'd rather save it for less of the initial trial and error phase of loading.

This rifle sat in my safe for months and I had plenty of time to go over it before going to the range.

I'll call Savage sometime next week. It'll be the 10th, at the earliest, before I can ship the rifle to them.

Off to bed. I have to be up in 4.5 hours to get to the airport.

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

grab a dollar bill and see if it slips under the rear tang where the safety is. mine wasnt floating, it hit the stock. i bedded the action and that raised it up enough to float the tang. does the stock touch the barrel in your type of stock? im in topeka, im no wizard but id look and see. what part of ks are you going to hunt in?


this

did this

 

[Boltfluter]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

If possible I would try a different scope, just to rule it out. Just a thought. Good luck.

Regards, Paul

 

[CanPopper]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

Could be a burr in the barrel. I had a barrel once that had a burr. As a result, I was spraying even though all my other guns were 0.5 MOA or better.

 

[TacT-MecH]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

I had to send my 10fcpxp back to savage and they "recrowned" it. I looked like they set the bosses kid to work with a rock and hammer and when i got it back it would shoot though. they didn't even re blue the "fixed" area.

 

[shoot4fun]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

My two check points, from previous experience, are the crown (even a microscopic nick in the crown will deal havoc) and the scope.

 

[ToddKS]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

I would send it in and let Savage take a look at it. Both myself and my father own Savage rifles and both shoot well under MOA.

That said, once you get it back, lay off the cleaning. Savage rifles seem to shoot better dirty. My model 12 is most accurate after 20-40 rounds. I typically shoot at least 100 rounds between cleanings, sometimes more.

 

[my human host]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

Considering what you've tried thus far, I would guess you have a bad barrel. Either rough bore or a botched chamber job.

Bolt fluter's recommendation of trying a proven scope is a good idea, but I'm betting on a dud barrel.

 

[MagnumSecurity]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

I am sure you are very frustrated at this point. I have had similar problems. I did have a very accurate Browning A-Bolt all of a sudden start shooting large groups. I changed scopes and it solved the problem. Other than that I would send it to Savage and let them check it out.

Please keep us updated on your progress and final results.

 

[hlee]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

I wouldn't discount the ammunition. Federal fusions grouped at around 6" from my LR-308. Federal GMM and Hornady match both grouped at (or) less than 1". All rounds were single fed. My first 40 shots were with fusions and I was getting a bit frustrated, but when I switched to FGGM, the groups tightened up, and hornday was a further improvement. That they shoot well in the TRG has no bearing on whether they will shoot well in the savage. I would buy some match ammunition to rule out the ammo in the investigation. If it turns out that ammo was the cause, I would start hand loading. Of course, I already hand load...

You can see the differences between the loads by following the link below...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=309524&Number=3511447

 

[cardboardkiller]

Re: Savage Won't Shoot

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: hlee</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I wouldn't discount the ammunition. Federal fusions grouped at around 6" from my LR-308. Federal GMM and Hornady match both grouped at (or) less than 1". All rounds were single fed. My first 40 shots were with fusions and I was getting a bit frustrated, but when I switched to FGGM, the groups tightened up, and hornday was a further improvement. That they shoot well in the TRG has no bearing on whether they will shoot well in the savage. I would buy some match ammunition to rule out the ammo in the investigation. If it turns out that ammo was the cause, I would start hand loading. Of course, I already hand load...

You can see the differences between the loads by following the link below...

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=309524&Number=3511447
</div></div>

Sorry, I wasn't clear about the ammo. My TRG is a .308 and I merely used it to make sure I wasn't doing anything wildly wrong in regards to my shooting mechanics.

I still have a hard time believing that 3 different types of ammo from 2 different manufacturers with 3 different types of bullets in 3 different bullet weights would not produce a group better than 5".

I do handload. I have a Forster press, Forster dies, Nosler brass, Sierra, Berger and Nosler bullets and Federal Match primers sitting at the house. I was trying to get a baseline for bullet type, weight, COAL and velocity for the rifle before I started burning up my components.