Savage's floating bolt head

[Coyotejunki]

I'm still not fully understanding how this makes a difference.

To my understanding the floating head allows both lugs to make contact on each shot, but if the bolt lug abatements are not perpendicular to the bore then is this really better than one lug making contact such as say a Remington, but it being 90 degrees or perpndicular to the bore's centerline axis?

If the Savage is trued, then there would be no reason for the floating bolt head. Right/wrong?

Would one of you please splain this to me?

 

[Coyotejunki]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

Also, it just seems to me that a chamber cut true to the centerline of the barrel is much more important, than the action being square and trued.

 

[boanerges57]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

I was under the impression the floating bolt head aligned better to the chamber.

 

[Rprecision]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

I think the intention of savage was to provide a means to compensate for imperfect tolerances in a production rifle.

I see your point and it is fair. If a floating head compensates for .005 of misaligned lugs or more then I am sure it makes for a more consistent action. Also the stress applied to the action is less. If you made the same comparison to a Remington, I’m not sure how the results would be.

 

[Coyotejunki]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

I will admit, much of this goes right over my head.

Like concentricity of a reloaded cartridge. If you have a tighter chamber, then wouldn't that help true up a reloaded cartridge that might not be concentric? I imagine a big sloppy chamber wouldn't, but don't most accuracy types who buy rifles such as GAP's and even Rebarreled rifles have a tighter chamber? Part of a precision in the building, or is a tactical style rifle built to looser tolerances for field applications?

 

[AXEMAN]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

if it was to compensate then why did or does bighorn custom actions use a floating bolt head? not trying to start anything, i have a savage, its been trued. but it must be of some other benefit for a custom maker to use it over the fixed or straight bolt that a remmy or winny has.

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

No gunsmith or engineer here, but I think that's the reason for the floating bolthead. It makes it irrelevant if they're (the locking lugs) are perpendicular, because the boltface "floats" independently and assures proper alignment of the cartridge, irrespective of the bolthead.

The lugs bear evenly, and the cartridge self-aligns correctly to the bore.

That is, assuming I understand the physics behind their theory...

http://www.savagearms.com/accuracy/floatingbolthead/

 

[Coyotejunki]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

So, the floating bolt head helps if the chamber is off center? I have a few Savages too, they shoot very well, but they both have Pacnor and Douglas barrels.

I just thought they engineered them 'cause it was cheaper to produce.

 

[KevinU]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: AXEMAN</div><div class="ubbcode-body">if it was to compensate then why did or does bighorn custom actions use a floating bolt head? not trying to start anything, i have a savage, its been trued. but it must be of some other benefit for a custom maker to use it over the fixed or straight bolt that a remmy or winny has. </div></div>

It was explained to me in a way that made perfect sense. The advantage to a floating bolt head is it stays in alignment before/during/after firing.

 

[Ring]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

well the reminton MSR is using it now.. so cant be that bad...

 

[para1505]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

Yes I agree with Ring. The MSR is using them and I also think the XM2010 is too. So thier must be something to it. What I do not know.

 

[jwpark]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ring</div><div class="ubbcode-body">well the reminton MSR is using it now.. so cant be that bad...</div></div>

This is humorous to me. Remington homers have been using the argument that Savages are build cheap because the floating bolt head allows the bolt to be made in parts, not one piece like the 700.

Guess they'll have to find a different reason to hate Savages now.

 

[Muttt]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

LOL .... that's funny

 

[turbo54]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

Let's not forget Big Horn actions also have a floating bolthead. The one I saw appeared to BE a Savage bolthead. If it wasn't made by Savage, it was an absolute copy. I'm pretty sure it was a Savage part. This is not criticsm, by the way...why reinvent the wheel?

I don't think the floating bolthead was chosen so that receiver manufacturing could be done "sloppily". Rather, I think it was chosen to allow nearly the entire bolt to be interchangable amonst all calibers...just pin a different bolthead on it.

Also, I think Savage recognized the floating design to be an easy way to guarantee both lugs share the bolt thrust load.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

As an engineer, having done a considerable amount of design work, I can always appreciate and respect a simple and effective solution that simply works, and eases manufacturability.

To me, that is an "elegant" design.

I can also appreciate a complex design that required complicated engineering, and thorough development/analysis. However, I don't think Rube Goldberg designs are "elegant".

 

[bohem]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it wasn't made by Savage, it was an absolute copy. I'm pretty sure it was a Savage part</div></div>

There are some very very miniscule differences, however the material and the fit/finish on AJ's bolt heads is different than the Savage ones. The BigHorn 'heads are definitely made in house.

 

[skog]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

Savage does it because it is cheap. Remington does it so you can change caliber depending on the mission.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it wasn't made by Savage, it was an absolute copy. I'm pretty sure it was a Savage part</div></div>

There are some very very miniscule differences, however the material and the fit/finish on AJ's bolt heads is different than the Savage ones. The BigHorn 'heads are definitely made in house.

</div></div>

Interesting. Sounds like you know more about it than I do! Will it interchange with a Savage?

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savage does it because it is cheap. Remington does it so you can change caliber depending on the mission. </div></div>

LOLZ

So when Savage uses a floating bolt head its because its inexpensive/cheap; when Remington starts using a floating bolt head its because it provides flexibility.

Got it.

Never mind the fact shooters have been swapping cheap Savage bolt heads to change calibers depending on their needs for decades now...

 

[jwpark]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

lol

 

[turbo54]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoilerUP</div><div class="ubbcode-body">So when Savage uses a floating bolt head its because its inexpensive/cheap; when Remington starts using a floating bolt head its because it provides flexibility.

Got it.

Never mind the fact shooters have been swapping cheap Savage bolt heads to change calibers depending on their needs for decades now... </div></div>

My thoughts exactly...

 

[BoilerUP]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

I can't decide if I want the 110 action sitting in my safe to use the .378 bolt head currently in it to shoot 223, or if I want to put in a .532 bolt head in and build a 7 SAUM, or buy a vanilla .473 bolt head and build a 284 Win or 30-06.

THANK GOODNESS FOR MISSION FLEXIBLITY

 

[Wannashootit]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

What I haven't figured out, is did Savage invent the design?
It doesn't seem to be listed among it's patented designs, like "AccuTrigger" and "AccuStock".

If it was their design, you damn sure would think they'd have filed a patent for it. Yet, I see no evidence of that.

If it's not patented, I don't understand why at least some other manufacturers haven't adopted the concept.

Anyone know if Savage has a patent on the floating bolt head design?

 

[bohem]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: turbo54</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bohem</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If it wasn't made by Savage, it was an absolute copy. I'm pretty sure it was a Savage part</div></div>

There are some very very miniscule differences, however the material and the fit/finish on AJ's bolt heads is different than the Savage ones. The BigHorn 'heads are definitely made in house.

</div></div>

Interesting. Sounds like you know more about it than I do! Will it interchange with a Savage? </div></div>

I don't know, I haven't tried.

 

[turbo54]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

Savage definitely does not currently hold a patent, because they've been doing it WAY longer than patents are good for.

 

[skog]

Re: Savage's floating bolt head

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: skog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Savage does it because it is cheap. Remington does it so you can change caliber depending on the mission. </div></div>

Sorry, I couldn't help it. Savage guys are so easy to screw with.

 

[Vinootz]

.

 

[Steel head]

And I doubt the floating bolt head is as strong or lasting as solid bolt design.

Well my savage 11 recently got its 6th barrel so it’s easily over 10k shots with only the extractor and ejector getting replaced.


Necros a thread to internet poo poo on savage!

 

[Vinootz]

.

 

[b6graham]

Why would Zermatt ever have used a floating bolt head if its such a bad design

 

[Steel head]

Why would Zermatt ever have used a floating bolt head if its such a bad design

And ARC.

 

[b6graham]

And ARC.

Interchangeable yes. But do they float? My mausingfield certainly doesn't

 

[Steel head]

Interchangeable yes. But do they float? My mausingfield certainly doesn't

The Nuke bolt head moves a bit.