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SBR to compliment a Precision Bolt Rifle in your gear
- Thread starter Saclee Rhino
- Start date
Well, to make a pistol "work" as a PDW, then it needs to be capable of PDW ranges (at least 100m). The RIA is an OK gun but its hardly capable of being used as a PDW. Conversely a Glock 20 or even a G40 with an RMR is capable of placing accurate hits past 100m. The RMR with CO-WITNESS iron sights (only with co-witness sights) makes easy hits well past 100m. The FLUX brace is available for the smaller frame Glocks but a large frame version is planned.
Adding the FLUX to a G35 (with a 357SIG barrel) makes hits beyond 200m easily possible. Once the large frame FLUX is available a 10mm will increase the striking power. For now Id either opt for a RMRd 10mm or a 9mm/357Sig with a FLUX. It would be a hard decision for me. I like 357Sig although ammo is harder to find, its flatter shooting and harder hitting. A Flux equipped and RMRd G34 (9mm) gives more ammo and 33rnd mags. A G20/G40 gives more power but lacks high capacity (greater than 15 shots) mags and is still waiting for the FLUX brace....six of one/half dozen of the other.
and again any thoughts of humping a SBR as a second rifle is just silly.
If you look at it this way.....it basically comes down to a small frame ar15 lower or a large frame ar10 to form1. The rest is really up to you.
I have form1 lower in ar15 platform with a 12.5" upper in 5.56. Putting together a .300blk is just a matter of picking up a new barrel and throwing it in an upper laying around. Provided I keep the original 5.56 configuration.
I hate my state and personally I would take a can all day everyday over a form1 sbr.
I have form1 lower in ar15 platform with a 12.5" upper in 5.56. Putting together a .300blk is just a matter of picking up a new barrel and throwing it in an upper laying around. Provided I keep the original 5.56 configuration.
I hate my state and personally I would take a can all day everyday over a form1 sbr.
I'd avoid 300 AAC, it's a very duty specific (pistol) caliber, and I think you'll get much more use out of an actual rifle caliber SBR. You can achieve great things with a 10.5"-12.5" SBR chambered in 5.56 or an AK SBR..
300 Blk is not a pistol caliber any more than 7.62x39 is. Saying he should avoid 300 Blk but then recommending an AK, presumably in 7.62x39, makes no sense except to show your personal bias.
Yikes, someones feelings are a little touchy. I’m not biased in any specific way. There’s applications where 300 AAC will excel, however limited. It’s a hopped up 45 ACP.
300 BLK wasn’t intended to replace or compete with 5.56/.223 , but rather the 9MM, in the SMG platform specifically.
Where 300 Blackout was meant to fill a niche was as a replacement for the pistol caliber SMG. Not, as many tend to think, as competition for the M4.
Based on the thread, sounds like a 556/223 would lend better support.
Change my mind ?
No touchy feelings, but maybe a low tolerance for BS.
300 Blk is a hopped up 45 ACP? Right... You know it's not just a subsonic round, don't you? The 300 and the 7.62x39 both push a 125gr bullet to 2300-2400 fps, with the 7.62x39 being just a hair ahead in muzzle velocity while the 300 has better bullet choices. The 300 gives up very little of that when used in SBR length barrels, as many here know first hand.
The subsonic 300 loads you're thinking of are more a niche application. Full power supersonic loads are the standard and have nothing to do with pistol cartridges.
Personally I think the whole premise of the thread is kind of silly; if a guy needs an SBR for hunting, just use the SBR instead of bringing two guns. A short 300 works fine on deer within a couple hundred yards, and a short 6.5 Grendel can extend that by quite a bit with the right bullet choices.
300 Blk is a hopped up 45 ACP? Right... You know it's not just a subsonic round, don't you? The 300 and the 7.62x39 both push a 125gr bullet to 2300-2400 fps, with the 7.62x39 being just a hair ahead in muzzle velocity while the 300 has better bullet choices. The 300 gives up very little of that when used in SBR length barrels, as many here know first hand.
The subsonic 300 loads you're thinking of are more a niche application. Full power supersonic loads are the standard and have nothing to do with pistol cartridges.
Personally I think the whole premise of the thread is kind of silly; if a guy needs an SBR for hunting, just use the SBR instead of bringing two guns. A short 300 works fine on deer within a couple hundred yards, and a short 6.5 Grendel can extend that by quite a bit with the right bullet choices.
Well lets get back to answering his question, however strange you might find it.
I'd assume since hes looking for a SMALLER SECONDARY rifle to accompany his PRIMARY HUNTING RIFLE, he'd get something in a short barrel configuration, (like he mentioned....)
Yeah of course he can run supersonic ammo out of an 8 inch 300 blackout build... but at this point, why not just get the 556/223? Unless of course he was specifically going to run SUBSONIC 300 AAC with a suppressor, in which case... subsonic 300 AAC is on point ballistically with 45 ACP. That's the point I was trying to make earlier.
Did we just come full circle?
Guy recommends AK SBR. Same guy then advises against 8" 300BLK.
Wut?
Wut?
No, we didn't come full circle, you're just showing how little you know about the subject.
Plenty of people use supersonic 300 Blk in short barrels - that's one of the appeals of the round, as the comments above explained. Muzzle blast, power, and performance on meat are all good reasons to choose a short supersonic 300 Blk instead of a short 5.56. Have you ever fired an 8" 5.56?
It seems like you're trying to give advice about something you have very little experience with. You haven't changed my mind so far.
Let's get a few things straight, since your dead set on being a prick who likes to try and belittle people on the internet.
I never said people don't use supersonic 300 AAC in short barrels. I never said 300 AAC was a bad round.
There are other reasons to choose a 5.56 over a 300 AAC. 556 is cheaper, its more common & readily available and it has less recoil.
Sounds like you're trying to argue and put words in my mouth. What's your deal? Are you mad because I don't see 300 AAC the same way you do?
You don't know me. Is this how you treat everyone you don't know?
Way to avoid the problems with your argument and play victim instead.
Still waiting to see why a short 7.62x39 has superior ballistics to a short 300BLK/AAC.
Still waiting to see why a short 7.62x39 has superior ballistics to a short 300BLK/AAC.
Easy there Mr. Passive aggressive.
I’ve never made such claims. I’ve made suggestions. If you want to ask me a specific question so you can understand why I made a suggestion, maybe you should ask that specific question instead of assuming along with the other guy.
I’ve never made such claims. I’ve made suggestions. If you want to ask me a specific question so you can understand why I made a suggestion, maybe you should ask that specific question instead of assuming along with the other guy.
In all fairness Cali, the minute I read your first feedback I also instantly realized it came from someone who doesn’t know what in the shit they're talking about.
No. This isn't about me being offended about something, don't pretend you're the victim here. This is about you being full of crap and giving bad advice.
Maybe take a look at what you really said. The 300 is not a pistol round, and it's not a 45 ACP.
You're right that I don't know you, which means I can only go by what I see here. What I see is a wanna-be expert who has no idea what they're talking about, but is giving advice anyway.
You insulted the OP and everyone else who reads this thread when you started posting wrong information and bad advice, and showed your own ignorance in thinking other people here wouldn't see through it. Forums like this are based on exchange of information, and that only works when people share correct info; the forum becomes worthless when posers looking for recognition spread bad info. This forum is full of very knowledgeable people; not a place for ignorant kids to gain a reputation.
If you want respect here, don't talk about or give advice on things you don't know. Sit back and learn, ask questions, and be a genuine person with some integrity instead of a phony.
TL,DR version - if you don't know what you're talking about here, just stop talking, because other people do know.
Im still stuck on carrying TWO rifles. Maybe I missed something but are you really taking about CARRYING two rifles? CARRYING Two rifles at the same time in the field? AND two different load outs of mags and ammo and gear specific to each rifle. There have been a lot of good suggestions and debate on an alternate rifle (instead of rifle) BUT nobody seems to want to address the idea of CARRYING Two rifles?
I used to watch my son playing video games, and with a click of button "A" he switched from sniper rifle to shotgun and button "B" gave him a beltfed flame throwning grenade launcher. That worked great in a VIDEO GAME but I think not so well in real life. Am I missing something?
I covered how and why in great deal earlier in this thread. I am not playing soldier here, just a guy who likes to hunt. I see a great deal of benefit in having a long gun + a suppressed SBR and carry both regularly. Which ever one I’m not using is carried on my pack. It’s not rocket science.
Okay??? It sounds silly to me (as in Batshite crazy); but then Ive actually played soldier for real with people shooting at me and I just cant fathom it. Hell I cant even fathom it if I had a vehicle and as a MP I did have a vehicle.... if its what you want then do it. I still think a PDW type pistol or even a heavy caliber hunting pistol makes more sense BUT that's just me.
Best
It might be worth exploring how far you can stretch out your SBR. One of mine is a 12.5" 6.5 Grendel which is very capable out to 650+ yards; it's surprisingly easy to hit with at that distance (easier than my 16" 5.56 AR), but is still very capable at close range like inside a room. A couple other guys here have used theirs out past 800.
Depending on the distances you're trying to cover, a well set up SBR with a decent optic might do everything you need in one gun. If you're stretching distances a lot farther than that, this may not apply of course.
Yeah I totally agree and sometimes all I carry is the SBR for that very reason if I’m in a spot that’s 200 and in. In fact, my suppressed SBR is the only thing my wife will shoot with, she hates the big bolt guns. Chalk up another reason to have one around. I know hits can be made much further out but energy is a concern, even with medium thin skinned game.
Yeah, just all depends on the circumstances and needs. I just can’t see going hog hunting with a pistol when I can do it with the superior terminal performance of an SBR caliber. It’s not that much extra work for me to have one on hand.
I have to agree with that myself, even though I do always carry a pistol (in the woods or just normal day to day). I shoot pistols a lot, and can honestly say I'm a better shot than most without bragging, but I still wouldn't count on something like a 10mm pistol as a substitute for an SBR. It's just not remotely in the same league for accuracy or power.
I've never carried two rifles hunting myself, and probably never will, but if a guy wants to and is willing to pack the weight, more power to ya. I'm more likely to just carry the SBR exclusively for hunting, which is what my son and I both did last fall with great success. (12.5" 6.5 Grendel for me, 9" 300 Blk for him.) I was never undergunned for range, even though we had several opportunities for 300-400 yard shots (Nosler's 129 ABLR works at very low velocity and really stretches the effective range of a short Grendel), and the whole experience made me question why I've bothered to tote full size rifles around the woods.
Personally, I just hunt with my SBR. It kills shit really dead, and it’s a lot more fun to carry. Or my great grandpa’s Nazi proof marked war trophy Mauser in ‘06, Weaver K4 and everything.
The Ozarks are a steep and unforgiving place, where you MIGHT possibly be able to shoot past 300, if you try really hard. The deer here are not large, and a 70gr TSX will go ass to brisket on aoudad sized game at 300 in an 11.5” 5.56.
Arizona deserts are also like that, but you can see 50 miles. An SBR is less useful there.
Depends on situation. I have no problems throwing on 70lbs of shit to hump into the woods or mountains, and have the joints to prove it, but I’d rather not if I don’t have to.
To answer OP’s question, I have an 11.5” 5.56, with a T2 on it, and a Saker K that lives on it pretty much full time. With proper bullet selection, anything that goes pew will kill shit. It’s a great gun to have, I hunt with it a lot.
Fair warning, if you hunt with a 5.56, or a shorty, or heaven fucking forbid the two combined, a shit ton of fucktards will want to show up autistically screeching about “mUH eThICs”, or “sHOrtIeS aRe RaNGe tOis.” To some folks, anything less than a 300WM isn’t enough to kill anything.
All that to say yeah, I agree. My SBR with the can off is silly light. A rifle strapped to the pack, and one slung is a valid concept, IF the situation dictates it necessary or advantageous. Otherwise I’m just gonna carry one or t’other.
Both rifles with loaded mags and the can on the SBR total about 24-25lbs, so with another 45-60 in a ruck for 3+ day overnight hunts etc, that’s weight adding up awful fast. I know that my personal threshold for weight is around 70-75lbs without water, and still being able to be useful and able to think at the end of the day is important, so less is more. If I’m carrying both rifles, that means I have 40-45lbs of space left. The pack weighs something, some more than others. Throw in a sleeping bag, cooking stuff, food, water, glass, shelter of some sort, ammo, clothes, emergency gear, and you’re getting heavy enough that you should be looking to ditch weight in any place(s) you can.
If you’re just walking in with a pair of rifles and a day pack, I say fuck it and rock on. You can do the same thing for a 15 day backcountry wilderness hunt, but better be able to carry it all and still get out without SAR.
In summary, where I live, medium sized game, I’m carrying the SBR. Anything harder to kill, 308 or bigger. Mainly talking hogs and bears. I have my 338 for out west. Plus, SBR’s are just plain convenient to have. Plain and simple.
The Ozarks are a steep and unforgiving place, where you MIGHT possibly be able to shoot past 300, if you try really hard. The deer here are not large, and a 70gr TSX will go ass to brisket on aoudad sized game at 300 in an 11.5” 5.56.
Arizona deserts are also like that, but you can see 50 miles. An SBR is less useful there.
Depends on situation. I have no problems throwing on 70lbs of shit to hump into the woods or mountains, and have the joints to prove it, but I’d rather not if I don’t have to.
To answer OP’s question, I have an 11.5” 5.56, with a T2 on it, and a Saker K that lives on it pretty much full time. With proper bullet selection, anything that goes pew will kill shit. It’s a great gun to have, I hunt with it a lot.
Fair warning, if you hunt with a 5.56, or a shorty, or heaven fucking forbid the two combined, a shit ton of fucktards will want to show up autistically screeching about “mUH eThICs”, or “sHOrtIeS aRe RaNGe tOis.” To some folks, anything less than a 300WM isn’t enough to kill anything.
All that to say yeah, I agree. My SBR with the can off is silly light. A rifle strapped to the pack, and one slung is a valid concept, IF the situation dictates it necessary or advantageous. Otherwise I’m just gonna carry one or t’other.
Both rifles with loaded mags and the can on the SBR total about 24-25lbs, so with another 45-60 in a ruck for 3+ day overnight hunts etc, that’s weight adding up awful fast. I know that my personal threshold for weight is around 70-75lbs without water, and still being able to be useful and able to think at the end of the day is important, so less is more. If I’m carrying both rifles, that means I have 40-45lbs of space left. The pack weighs something, some more than others. Throw in a sleeping bag, cooking stuff, food, water, glass, shelter of some sort, ammo, clothes, emergency gear, and you’re getting heavy enough that you should be looking to ditch weight in any place(s) you can.
If you’re just walking in with a pair of rifles and a day pack, I say fuck it and rock on. You can do the same thing for a 15 day backcountry wilderness hunt, but better be able to carry it all and still get out without SAR.
In summary, where I live, medium sized game, I’m carrying the SBR. Anything harder to kill, 308 or bigger. Mainly talking hogs and bears. I have my 338 for out west. Plus, SBR’s are just plain convenient to have. Plain and simple.
I have three stoner SBRs, 3 bolt guns and 2 stoner rifles. For hogs, the SBRs work as we can get in close. But, for yotes, I find myself needing more and more distance to cover the calving cows, so bolt guns are preferred.
I got a weapon carry pack with the idea of trying to carry both. Not sure I can. But I will try it. For the weight carry exercise if nothing more. But the idea could be useful if encountering a yote while on the way to an overwatch area.
I got a weapon carry pack with the idea of trying to carry both. Not sure I can. But I will try it. For the weight carry exercise if nothing more. But the idea could be useful if encountering a yote while on the way to an overwatch area.
To the OP, I recommend an SBR or pistol 6.5 Grendel in something like 12" length.
In fact, I would contemplate ditching the 308 main gun and switching over to a longer 6.5 Grendel. Reduce the number of skillsets and recycle practice. Taking a look at ballistics, you may be surprised how little you're giving up.
The earlier ignorance and brain damage concerning 300BLK was special... Here's mine, shooting supersonic, no less.
In fact, I would contemplate ditching the 308 main gun and switching over to a longer 6.5 Grendel. Reduce the number of skillsets and recycle practice. Taking a look at ballistics, you may be surprised how little you're giving up.
The earlier ignorance and brain damage concerning 300BLK was special... Here's mine, shooting supersonic, no less.
I keep seeing a lot of “wait and wait”
Turnaround is like 3-4 weeks or less right now. I just had one done and several friends as well all less than a month.
Turnaround is like 3-4 weeks or less right now. I just had one done and several friends as well all less than a month.
I gotta stick up for the OP, I think it's a fun concept worth exploring. Can you argue that it's not absolutely necessary? Sure, but depending on the mission it has its benefits.
I think a pretty nice setup would be some kind of serious long-range caliber bolt gun that can be broken down and fit into a pack, combined with a short barrel 300 Blackout that you can use with either subsonic if you're trying to be sneaky or supersonic if you aren't. Of course you'll have a handgun with an RMR as well.
Could be for hunting, could be fun training, could easily relate to LE missions in rural areas, could just be a fun CoD fantasy. What's wrong with that? ?
I think a pretty nice setup would be some kind of serious long-range caliber bolt gun that can be broken down and fit into a pack, combined with a short barrel 300 Blackout that you can use with either subsonic if you're trying to be sneaky or supersonic if you aren't. Of course you'll have a handgun with an RMR as well.
Could be for hunting, could be fun training, could easily relate to LE missions in rural areas, could just be a fun CoD fantasy. What's wrong with that? ?
