Scale - Beam or digital?

T

thefitter

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May 10, 2010
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#1
I'm starting to look into hand loading even though I told myself that I never would because I don't have the time. I'm researching equipment and want to know peoples opinions on scales.

I want something super accurate, easy to use and that will last a life time with minimal care. I don't mind spending money on quality as long as it performs and lasts. Thanks!

For the people with non hand loading specific scales (grains) how do you convert? Just a calculator?

1 grain = 0.06479891 grams
 
#3
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

Resolution? I'm thinking 0.05 gn which is 0.005 g is pretty good. Am I right?

Acculab looks good but have you ever heard of iBalance? They are US made and have a 30 year warranty!
 
#4
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

Since money is no option for you, get a Gen 2 Prometheus, there 3k, hand made, and will out preform anyother reloading scale on the planet, every 15 seconds the exact(1/3 of kernel accurite) will be dispense into the case.
 
#6
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

I have both beam and digital. When I was researching electronic scales I found that a lot of people were having issues with various models give funky readings from time to time. This seemed to be prevalent with battery operated scales (when the juice gets low so does the accuracy). Also it almost seemed like every scale had mixed review. When I have any doubts or I am calibrating my powder measure I check it with the beam scale.

In the end I decided to go with the dillon d-terminator and eliminator. The D-terminator can be used with batteries or AC power and measures in both grains and grams. It will come with a 50g calibration weight and I would also recommend getting the dust cover.

Also you may wanna pick up one of these
index_clip_image018.jpg


comes in handy to level your workbench all around just in case you bump your beam scale with your hand.
 
#11
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

you want consistant, get a beam.
The best would be Gen 2 Prometheus. I will most likely never know that for sure.
If you have little time like you say and don't want to spend the thousands. Get the RCBS charge master. It has been good to me.
 
#12
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

Im new to reloading too but, I will never trust or use a electronic scale thats made in china, noway nohow. I bought a old but good rcbs 505 beam scale off ebay and a ohaus check weight set. a great little scale for 40 bucks. I couldnt be happier, the beam scales are so sensitve that u can't even breath on them.
 
#14
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

"I want something super accurate, easy to use and that will last a life time with minimal care."


With your criteria, the only choice is a beam.

My Lyman M-5 (basically identintical with today's RCBS 1010 but it's not really different in reliability from any simular design available. It still reads exactly the same today as it did when I pulled it out of the box in '65 and I expect it to do so much longer yet. No digital anything, at any price, can approach that and most digital scales are quite querky even when/while they do work. I know of no digital powder scale guaranteed for more than two years, there's a clear message in that.

Carefully weighing powder charges to .000000001 gr. will add nothing to accuracy; reloading just doesn't benefit from consistancy much better than .1 gr. Long range ballistic differences due to common bullets and cases differences will cause speed variations that wipe out any powder charge consistancy better than .05 gr. and any beam scale made can do that. But you really won't want to have to convert anything to grains, get a scale properly calibrated for our work.

Digital scales are, IMHO, best religated to weighting bullets and cases, IF you get into selecting them by weight! A few tenths error with that won't much matter.
 
#15
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

What's your application? LR Competition (Tac) or LE/Mil? Or, Benchrest or ...?
I'm surprised by the overwhelming responses at to "get a beam" on the Hide.
For absolute precision, longevity, etc. I have no doubt that the analog tried and true beam options are probably better.

But, I'm a shooter. I don't want to spend hours reloading -- it's a necessary evil of the sport.
The .1 grain accuracy given by the RCBS ChargeMaster is good enough for me for the LR Tac matches that I shoot (and most of others that I compare notes with).
OK, I weight calibrate each loading session and sometimes mid-session. And, once in a blue moon, I double check it against my Dillon digital scale.
The trade off of "precise enough?" vs. convenience is the deciding factor for me.
 
#16
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BoredEngineer</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Also you may wanna pick up one of these
index_clip_image018.jpg


comes in handy to level your workbench all around just in case you bump your beam scale with your hand. </div></div>


where's a good place to pick one of those up?
 
#17
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

K2, We are just answering thefitter's question as it was given; beams certainly last a LOT longer and that was one of his criteria, speed was not.

Actually, with the tools properly located and skillfully used, a beam scale/manual measure/trickler is clearly as accurate as the user and nearly as fast as any digital dumpster in the total span of a typical reloading session.

Small - or large - bubble levels can usually be purchased in the tools section of a Lowe's or HomeDepot quite inexpensivly. It's need to totally level the bench/shelf is just one of the several reasons that digitals can be so touchy. And the errors caused by low batteries can be exceeded by errors from low or distorted AC power line voltages. Or changing ambient temperatures. Or external magnetic fields. Or ducks flying east to west. Or .... etc. Beam scales tend to ignore all that!
wink.gif


But, as your post suggests, what each of us <span style="text-decoration: underline">wants</span> is a personal thing. We all pays our money and takes our choice based on whatever idea seems best to us.
 
#18
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: k2peaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
But, I'm a shooter.
</div></div>

Can I have your autograph?
wink.gif


Having owned 3 digital scales and having them screw up on me in different ways and being off quite a bit even after zeroing and also having to worry about outside factors that effect the electronic scales, I will stick with my beam. Once I get in my grove I can load plenty fast enough.
 
#19
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

To speed up the loading process with a beam. I use the LEE Perfect Powder Measure(30$) to drop the charge and trickle the last 0.5grs


So far, the Acculab and Chargemaster have performed flawlessly.
Like anything else, know your equipment and double check everything.
 
#20
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

Apologies, that came across badly. I meant to type, "I'm a high volume shooter".
At least I don't trust the variability of the dillon powder measures for LR anymore...

All of you have convincing arguments why beams are better than digitals -- I fully concede the point.
I just don't know many others that I compete with including a pretty active LR community in CO/NM/WY who use beam scales. Almost universally folks have gone to ChargeMasters (or other flavors). The majority of replies to the basic question flies in the face of what I've seen within the LR Tac competition community and maybe the volume difference is the explanation (?).
To each his own.
 
#21
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

Beam scales don't need batteries or electric. My back up is an RCBS 505. Most folks throw a load then trickle them up when using a scale to weigh every load. I think it gets into volume as to which method is used. To work up a load I'll generally use the throw and measure method. That's good for 10 or 20. I use the Pact Scale and Dispenser for my High Power ammo. If it's .1 grain under I may keep it for 200 yard, if it's .1 over I dump it back. (50 rounds are about 45 minutes. I tried seating while the dispenser ran but the vibration causes errors.)
 
#22
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: upjeeper</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

where's a good place to pick one of those up? </div></div>

Home depot should have them. Best $1.49 I ever spent.
 
#24
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 427Cobra</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Since money is no option for you, get a Gen 2 Prometheus, there 3k, hand made, and will out preform anyother reloading scale on the planet, every 15 seconds the exact(1/3 of kernel accurite) will be dispense into the case. </div></div>

this in conjunction with the MXX-123

the 123 is most "accurate"

the PII is most "repeatable"
 
#25
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

Beam scale the RCBS 505.
Mount so when you sit down at the bench it sits at eye level.
You will be able to discern a one kernel variation of charge.
Today I passed 10 shots over a Oehler Chronograph.
A SD of 0005 for a 10 shot string speaks for its self
Don't think a person can get any better results no matter how much money he spends.
Also you might think about a set of check weights.
 
#26
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

Thanks for the info guys. The hard part about this is that I have absolutely no experience with this and I'm trying to make perfect decisions on equipment that I will be happy with and not have to replace next year. Yeah I know... good luck!

To be honest I've really been trying not to get into hand loading at all. I don't have enough time to shoot as it is. I thought I was doing OK. I had tried a half dozen different factory loads and it seemed that my bolt liked FGMM 175 the best. Big surprise I know. And I was happy with it's performance and planning on just working on my technique, which needs a lot of work anyway. Then I was given 5 rounds by a fellow shooter 2 weekends ago. He stated that they were his FGMM 175 copies. Sierra bullets in Lapua brass, I can't remember what powder. Well I tried them and DAMN! My group was not even a group it was one frickin hole!! F**K!! So am I going to be happy shooting factory FGMM know knowing what I really could do if I could just learn to hand load myself? No, it will eat at my soul and drive me crazy.

As far as refining my criteria at this time volume is not really an issue but convenience and my lack of patience is. I only shoot about 100 rounds a weekend at this time. So that is what I would need to load in a week. And I'm still wet behind the ears as far as skills. I would like to learn long range tacticl just for fun not business. So that's what I would be loading for in the future.

The Charge Master combo theory looks nice but I have seen a few bad reviews at Midway. Fortunately RCBS seems to have excellent customer service. So do I go that route and get a beam or digital to double check? Not sure. I don't really want 2-3 scales just to verify accuracy. Beam seems pretty straight forward but I could see myself getting impatient and wondering about digital. Then possibly buying one later anyway. Rather make that decision now.

I have found what looks to be an excellent digital, the iBalance 401. It reads in grains (0.05gn) has a wind screen, rechargeable batteries and AC adapter. Also believe it or not it's US made and has a 30 year warranty. Not a typo 30 year warranty!

I'm wondering if a Harrell powder measure and this scale might be a good place to start. This set up would be about $200 more than a Charge Master Combo.

From my reading it seems the real anal guys (me) throw low and then trickle up. Which I imagine slows things down.

Again thanks for all the advice.
 
#27
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

100rnds a week and not much available time. Go with chargemaster if you don't want to spend thousands on the best. A harrell and a scale would be fairly quick once you get the rythem going.
I don't know. I have a dillon 650, bean scale, chargemaster, had a dillon dterminator, a couple presses. I prefer the chargemaster with a good old rockchucker press for my bolt gun reloading. I don't get really fancy, just load up some good rounds. Spend most my time on brass prep anymore. Sit down and try to reload 300-400 at a time. That has been lasting me a few months lately. I can spend 3 times the time on prepping the brass. I use LC surplus brass. weight sorted, sized, trimmed,annealed, primmer pocket swaged, cleaned ( a couple times during the process). Not in this order. If you use good lapua brass hopfully your prep time with shortened a lot. After a few rnds on the brass you will have to put time into the brass. Don't forget about this process when getting into reloading.
 
#30
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

I agree with Montana. Go with the Chargemaster. I made the switch last year and use my 505 for occasional verification. You said you're shooting tactical not benchrest. Why spend 3k on a Prometheus when that cash would serve you better on glass, barrel. trued action, or all of the above. A better rifle helps hide the .o5 of a grain difference between rounds. Don't believe me, shoot a GAP. Trigger time is more important than having the most precise handload in the county. I have heard guys talk about powder weight consistency while shooting mixed brass. WTF! Another good investment would be a Giraud trimmer. Remember.. Spend less time loading and more time shooting
 
#31
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

fitter, have you seen this shooter again? He may be willing to teach you about reloading and give you a good idea on equipment. It can be learned on your own and on line but is easier witha mentor. I pretty much did the on my own thing before the internet, took a while but learned a lot more after easy research.
 
#32
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

"The Charge Master combo theory looks nice but I have seen a few bad reviews at Midway. Fortunately RCBS seems to have excellent customer service. So do I go that route and get a beam or digital to double check? Not sure. I don't really want 2-3 scales just to verify accuracy. Beam seems pretty straight forward but I could see myself getting impatient and wondering about digital. Then possibly buying one later anyway. Rather make that decision now."

Which ever electronic scale you get instead of buying a beam you can get a set of check weights. For $35 you can get the 210.5 grain set at midway, for $48 you can get a 510.5 grain set. Just check your electronic when you turn it on. Some say to leave them on for a while first. The Pact doesn't require a warm up. I'd probably buy the same dispenser and scale package I have now.

If you compare two scales and they read different which one is right? With weights you know if they read the same. Whether you get an elctronic or beam scale if you only have one you'll have to trust it. The check weights will verify it.
 
#35
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

ive been using a dillon d terminator for a couple of months. i like it but i have to pay close attention to the calibration and rezero it quite a bit. i used the rcbs that came with my master kit for a long time with great success. in my opinion they both are close enough for recreational shooting. i wish my equipment was the reason my groups were so big and not the nut behind the bolt. but it is nice to have confidence in your equipment, and know you brought your best product to the range. when i win the lottery i will definitly upgrade.
 
#36
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SmileMaker</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What I use is a ohaus dial-o-gram

CentogramDialogram.jpg


http://www.affordablescales.com/scales_specs.asp?specs=235

Set the weight on the balance. Throw the charge a couple of
tenths light and trickle until the balance is zero'd. Its a
fairly fast process, accurate and consistant. Better than
my Denver Instruments electronic balance.

SM </div></div>

Does converting from grams to grains ever screw you up?
 
#37
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

I run beam scales. Less chances for something to mess up.

As said above, buy check weights they will verify your scale is correct.

Start with a beam and a single stage press till you learn. Then buy your Dillon.

I've been reloading for 20+ years, still using the old RCBS Rock
smile.gif


Good luck!
 
#38
Re: Scale - Beam or digital?

I recently purchased the Hornady electronic dispenser and scale and it has functioned flawlessly. It is true that if i leave my cell phone on the bench or within 5feet it will go crazy. It is just an accepted fact and i know to leave my cell a few yards.

It costs much less than the RCBS Chargemaster and has three modes of speed in dispensing, slow, normal and fast. Based on what you choose it will drop very fast the first 2/3 of the intended load and then will trickle the rest to 0.1gr accuracy. It comes with two check weights and i check them before and after and it is always spot on. That is good enough for me.
 
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