Ok this is my situation. I am prepared to be flamed. I began reloading ten years ago with the Lee scale that came in the kit I bought. Did OK and I loaded thousands of pistol/bulk .223 rounds with it without blowing my face off. After a while I (stupidly) bought one of the cheap MTM digitals at Academy and kind of half-ass cross checked charges with the Lee. Did OK for a while like that. Now that I have matured in my endeavors and want to make tiny groups I have serious doubts about my powder-measuring equipment. I have decided the best way is to drop a charge and trickle up to the (hopefully accurate) weight. My equipment through my own testing has proven inadequate for this task and now I must advance. Can you guys recommend to me a decent scale? I have read enough to know that a digital that has the abilities I now require is out of my budget for now. What is a good balance-beam scale nowadays? My budget is 200. Help me out guys. The old RCBS 5-0-5 used to be a common recommendation but they don't make them anymore. I see the Hornady scale all the time for $65 or so but I see a lot of bad reviews. Any advice or discussion is welcome. Thanks in advance!
Scale frustration on a budget
- Thread starter Cerwinski
- Start date
Lots of 5-0-5s on ebay. Ohaus 505, Lyman 500 and rcbs 5-0-5 are all the same...all made by Ohaus. I too was sick of cheap digital scales drifting half a grain in twenty min but didn't have the budget to step up to something really good. Bought an Ohaus 505 off Ebay for 40 bucks that must be at least 30 years old judging by the box but it is in mint condition. Trickling into a balance beam is even more tedious then into a digital but at least its more consistant. I don't load high volume so its okay for now. Im getting single digit es's so far with it so im happy.
gempro is right in that budget. I use that along with my chargemaster and they are right on each other in terms of weights.
had a friend being in his lab scale that measure into the thousandths with a glass enclosure.
i think the key is leave it on prior to your load session and calibrate, calibrate verify with check weights
had a friend being in his lab scale that measure into the thousandths with a glass enclosure.
i think the key is leave it on prior to your load session and calibrate, calibrate verify with check weights
I found an RCBS Chargemaster here in the PX for close to that price.
I use one of these to confirm the RCBS.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071GYVQF3/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
As said above, the 'trick' is to turn the scale on and allow it to warm up.
I use one of these to confirm the RCBS.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071GYVQF3/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
As said above, the 'trick' is to turn the scale on and allow it to warm up.
After further research my spouse has determined that my budget is now reduced to 100 or so. That pretty much eliminates any sort of electronic scale/measure. I have no problem with an old-school beam scale IF it is accurate. I find it relaxing to throw low charges and trickle up manually. Nor do I do much bulk loading anymore (at least for rifle loads). Any opinions on the newer RCBS offerings like the M500? From what I have seen it looks like a huge upgrade for me in both accuracy and ease of use compared to the LEE I have been fighting with. It seems there is not much info any longer on the old-school scales.
You might give a Dillon scale a look. They seem to be reasonably priced, and Dillon stands behind their stuff.https://www.dillonprecision.com/dillon-s-eliminator-scale_8_7_25215.html
D
Deleted member 113831
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When it comes to balance beam scales, none of the new ones are made as well as the old ones. Every single make and model suffers in comparison to it's predecessors. As has been said, there are tons of old Ohaus made scales on Ebay. I have 2 vintage 1010's and a vintage 5-0-5 that is my daily use scale.
I also have a Scientech SA310 analytical balance that will accurately and repeatebly weigh 1/2 kernal of Varget (0.01 grains), I use my 5-0-5 for daily use. The tests I've run show that my 5-0-5, over a 20 charge series will hold an extreme spread of 0.09 grains and an Standard Deviation of 0.03 grains. So basically, with good technique, I was able to stay within 2 kernals of powder of the target weight.
Vintage Ohaus 5-0-5 here, mint: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ohaus-505-...610972&hash=item21410c1d51:g:~DQAAOSwyedbGUPe
Technique makes or breaks weighing. One thing to consider is absolute accuracy, i.e., My 30 grain charge is an accurate weight, maybe 30.00 grains +/- 0.01 grains, or my 30 grain charge is the same as last time, the same as last year, and the year before. Might be 30.1 grains, but it is the SAME.
Sameness makes groups.
The beam scale usually offers long term accuracy but is slow compared to dispensers.
Some of the cheaper digital reloading scales are just relabeled Chinese scales that have gone through a Quality Control sampling and are good when sold.
Good scales are not cheap. Since this is a Budget based thread, you guys using (relatively) expensive scales and dispensers won't be much help, but go ahead and post.
In addition to full scale accuracy (@ calibration weight) digital scales can have linearity errors, roll over accuracy, and auto zero capture range.
Additional errors can be temperature drift, short term electronic drift. The trick is to use technique to identify, monitor and correct for these error sources.
I use a super cheap scale but employ checks to monitor the accuracy @ the weight I am tossing.
For those on a BUDGET, technique if generally FREE.
First thing to do is determine how accurately you NEED to charge. The general rule of "+/- 0.1 grain" works, sometimes.
The "I weight to 0.002 grain" is likely a little ridiculous and not in the scope of BUDGET weighing.
Percentage of charge weight is a better metric. +/- 1% is fine for general plinking.
E.g.,
7 grains for a pistol load, 1% is a little better than +/- 0.1 grain.
30 grains for a small rifle cartridge, +/-1% is +/- 0.3 grains.
60 grains for a larger rifle cartridge, +/- 1% is +/- 0.6 grains.
Anything beyond 0.1% accuracy is borderline anal
When you read about load development in 1/2 grains steps, or 0.2 grain steps, +/- 0.6 grains just won't cut it.
If you are going for 0.2 grains, a scale that displays to 0.1 grain advertised, but only displays EVEN numbers just won't cut it.
For most cheap digital scales monitoring ZERO between each charge sometimes allows the scale electronics to capture anything close to zero as an automatic zero. Sounds good but scale drift can contribute to zero errors that will not be seen from charge to charge.
With a Zero/tare of your powder cup/pan each time you remove the cup you get a free check of the tare value. If that value changes, your charge may be wrong.
Calibrating a scale at full scale value might be convenient, but is does not tell you much about the linearity, or sensitivity at lower values.
A 500 grain digital scale is likely a 50 gram scale with a different label. Tossing 30 grain charges from a scale calibrated at 50 grams is putting a lot of trust in the scale. I suggest a check weight somewhere close to your charge. Check weights of suitable accuracy (0.1%) are cheap.
Not the really cheap ones you sometimes find on ebay, something just a little better.
A Class M1 or better, 2 gram (30.86 grains) check weight has a tolerance, when NEW of 1.2 mg ( little better than 0.02 grains) and puts you well into the anal range for small rifle charges
A 5 gram M1 check weight wound be great for 50 to 60 grain charges. The cheaper Chrome plated magnetic steel weights are fine for reloading, with the non-magnetic Stainless better. Monitoring the negative pan value when removed, occasionally 'Tossing' the check weight instead of powder is a free way to monitor your charge process.
The cheap scale I use (Much less than $50) has a 50 gram full scale.
It reads to 0.02 grains but it's best resolution is in carats. Displays to the nearest 0.005 carats.
That's better than 0.02 grains (by a little).
Mine is very repeatable if I keep room temperature constant (between HVAC cycles) and monitor performance during a charging session.
I have no doubt believing my target charges are better than +/- 0.1 grain.
My vendor (in China) will not stand behind this scale that is a couple YEARS out of warranty.
Here's a short video of Charging on the CHEAP
EDIT, I just powered it on, let it sit for a minute and checked a 2 gram, 10 carat, M1 weight, without recalibration.
Sameness makes groups.
The beam scale usually offers long term accuracy but is slow compared to dispensers.
Some of the cheaper digital reloading scales are just relabeled Chinese scales that have gone through a Quality Control sampling and are good when sold.
Good scales are not cheap. Since this is a Budget based thread, you guys using (relatively) expensive scales and dispensers won't be much help, but go ahead and post.
In addition to full scale accuracy (@ calibration weight) digital scales can have linearity errors, roll over accuracy, and auto zero capture range.
Additional errors can be temperature drift, short term electronic drift. The trick is to use technique to identify, monitor and correct for these error sources.
I use a super cheap scale but employ checks to monitor the accuracy @ the weight I am tossing.
For those on a BUDGET, technique if generally FREE.
First thing to do is determine how accurately you NEED to charge. The general rule of "+/- 0.1 grain" works, sometimes.
The "I weight to 0.002 grain" is likely a little ridiculous and not in the scope of BUDGET weighing.
Percentage of charge weight is a better metric. +/- 1% is fine for general plinking.
E.g.,
7 grains for a pistol load, 1% is a little better than +/- 0.1 grain.
30 grains for a small rifle cartridge, +/-1% is +/- 0.3 grains.
60 grains for a larger rifle cartridge, +/- 1% is +/- 0.6 grains.
Anything beyond 0.1% accuracy is borderline anal
When you read about load development in 1/2 grains steps, or 0.2 grain steps, +/- 0.6 grains just won't cut it.
If you are going for 0.2 grains, a scale that displays to 0.1 grain advertised, but only displays EVEN numbers just won't cut it.
For most cheap digital scales monitoring ZERO between each charge sometimes allows the scale electronics to capture anything close to zero as an automatic zero. Sounds good but scale drift can contribute to zero errors that will not be seen from charge to charge.
With a Zero/tare of your powder cup/pan each time you remove the cup you get a free check of the tare value. If that value changes, your charge may be wrong.
Calibrating a scale at full scale value might be convenient, but is does not tell you much about the linearity, or sensitivity at lower values.
A 500 grain digital scale is likely a 50 gram scale with a different label. Tossing 30 grain charges from a scale calibrated at 50 grams is putting a lot of trust in the scale. I suggest a check weight somewhere close to your charge. Check weights of suitable accuracy (0.1%) are cheap.
Not the really cheap ones you sometimes find on ebay, something just a little better.
A Class M1 or better, 2 gram (30.86 grains) check weight has a tolerance, when NEW of 1.2 mg ( little better than 0.02 grains) and puts you well into the anal range for small rifle charges
A 5 gram M1 check weight wound be great for 50 to 60 grain charges. The cheaper Chrome plated magnetic steel weights are fine for reloading, with the non-magnetic Stainless better. Monitoring the negative pan value when removed, occasionally 'Tossing' the check weight instead of powder is a free way to monitor your charge process.
The cheap scale I use (Much less than $50) has a 50 gram full scale.
It reads to 0.02 grains but it's best resolution is in carats. Displays to the nearest 0.005 carats.
That's better than 0.02 grains (by a little).
Mine is very repeatable if I keep room temperature constant (between HVAC cycles) and monitor performance during a charging session.
I have no doubt believing my target charges are better than +/- 0.1 grain.
My vendor (in China) will not stand behind this scale that is a couple YEARS out of warranty.
Here's a short video of Charging on the CHEAP
EDIT, I just powered it on, let it sit for a minute and checked a 2 gram, 10 carat, M1 weight, without recalibration.
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wow. you need a new hobby with a spouse that restricts your spending to so little... or restricts your spending to begin with. oof
better you than me buddy.
myself and a friend have gotten chargemaster lites on here for $160 if you can skip going to mcdonalds and the bar a few nights and save up an extra $60 and be patient waiting for the right deal to come along
good luck!
better you than me buddy.
myself and a friend have gotten chargemaster lites on here for $160 if you can skip going to mcdonalds and the bar a few nights and save up an extra $60 and be patient waiting for the right deal to come along
good luck!
I don't even let my wife near my $40 scale or my turret press
You gonna shoot? You gonna reload AND use your own stuff. Want better stuff, buy it.
You gonna shoot? You gonna reload AND use your own stuff. Want better stuff, buy it.
manufacturing pharmaceuticals we have scales up the ass around here.
scale example:
lets say we have a scale in the pharmacy that is a 500g scale +/- .1g.
you would think the range is .1g to 500g at +/-.1g.
nope
the +/- .1g is only for a range within the range:
its +/- .1g from 180-320g
its +/- .2g from 120-179g ..... .1g from 180-320g ....... .2g from 321 to 400g
and so on and and so on.
the booklet or manufacturer will have information on this.
we have different scales in each pharm room for different weights heres a pic from this morning.
this is sold as a 120g max etc scale but we only use it for .1- 80g of material.
for lager or smaller amounts we have different scales on the same bench.
the actual lab is a different story all together.
what im trying to get at, is if you are going to get anal about weights and are trying to do it on a tight budget research the scale you are looking at.
no use finding a deal on a scale the is worse than what you have now because of the range you are working in.
shit even our calibration weights that we use to calibrate our scales daily have to get calibrated once a year by a outside company.
scale example:
lets say we have a scale in the pharmacy that is a 500g scale +/- .1g.
you would think the range is .1g to 500g at +/-.1g.
nope
the +/- .1g is only for a range within the range:
its +/- .1g from 180-320g
its +/- .2g from 120-179g ..... .1g from 180-320g ....... .2g from 321 to 400g
and so on and and so on.
the booklet or manufacturer will have information on this.
we have different scales in each pharm room for different weights heres a pic from this morning.
this is sold as a 120g max etc scale but we only use it for .1- 80g of material.
for lager or smaller amounts we have different scales on the same bench.
the actual lab is a different story all together.
what im trying to get at, is if you are going to get anal about weights and are trying to do it on a tight budget research the scale you are looking at.
no use finding a deal on a scale the is worse than what you have now because of the range you are working in.
shit even our calibration weights that we use to calibrate our scales daily have to get calibrated once a year by a outside company.
Attachments
While there are traceability requirements for some weighing applications, home reloading isn't one of them.
A cheap Class M1 (NOT M3) or better check weight, near your target value, will last years and years without recalibration for home use if taken care of.
Sameness is the feature you are looking for.
You can use an 'Uncalibrated' scale with known check and sensitivity weights.
That's how precision balances are used. Substitution weighing.
How many know what a turning point is?
Believe a 20 year old beam scale, or check a digital frequently.
Calibrating scales
A cheap Class M1 (NOT M3) or better check weight, near your target value, will last years and years without recalibration for home use if taken care of.
Sameness is the feature you are looking for.
You can use an 'Uncalibrated' scale with known check and sensitivity weights.
That's how precision balances are used. Substitution weighing.
How many know what a turning point is?
Believe a 20 year old beam scale, or check a digital frequently.
Calibrating scales
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OK, now that we have covered the cheap approaches, you guys with those thousand dollar rigs can now post
To give you an idea how anal precision mass calibraton can get, when NIST changed the reference base from
"apparent mass vs Brass" to "apparent brass vs Stainless Steel" we had to go to each reference set an apply corrections.
And again when the U.S. value of a kilogram was adjusted to the new international value.
(back when I worked)
To give you an idea how anal precision mass calibraton can get, when NIST changed the reference base from
"apparent mass vs Brass" to "apparent brass vs Stainless Steel" we had to go to each reference set an apply corrections.
And again when the U.S. value of a kilogram was adjusted to the new international value.
(back when I worked)
I have a Lyman digital but don't trust it as much as my RCBS balance scale and it's boxed up waiting to go on ebay.
My vote goes to the Dillon and a set of calibration eights for less than $150. Any balance scale will do the job. It's accuracy and consistency depends on you.
As already said, If you can find a RCBS 5-0-2 or 5-0-5 go for it. Keep the dust off of it and don't throw charges in a draft, and it will serve you well. Throwing a charge doesn't have to be rocket science unless you are doing long range precision bench rest. I throw short then trickle until the scale says good. That's close enough for most reloaders.
My vote goes to the Dillon and a set of calibration eights for less than $150. Any balance scale will do the job. It's accuracy and consistency depends on you.
As already said, If you can find a RCBS 5-0-2 or 5-0-5 go for it. Keep the dust off of it and don't throw charges in a draft, and it will serve you well. Throwing a charge doesn't have to be rocket science unless you are doing long range precision bench rest. I throw short then trickle until the scale says good. That's close enough for most reloaders.
Signature line:
Remember once you become a felon by they're hand or yours, be the best you can be.
should be
Remember once you become a felon by their hand or yours, be the best you can be.
Typos happen. Be the best you can be.
Remember once you become a felon by they're hand or yours, be the best you can be.
should be
Remember once you become a felon by their hand or yours, be the best you can be.
Typos happen. Be the best you can be.
For some technical reference material on old fashioned precision weighing from the Head Anal Agency.
There are articles on single, double substitution, and transposition weighting.
https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-measures/laboratory-metrology/standard-operating-procedures
I spent many nights swinging weights on a balance similar to this one.
One day I'll give this one a try, Would be a fun project
Just needs a pointer and a cursing scale.
There are articles on single, double substitution, and transposition weighting.
https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-measures/laboratory-metrology/standard-operating-procedures
I spent many nights swinging weights on a balance similar to this one.
One day I'll give this one a try, Would be a fun project
Just needs a pointer and a cursing scale.
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Lol!I don't even let my wife near my $40 scale or my turret press
You gonna shoot? You gonna reload AND use your own stuff. Want better stuff, buy it.
View attachment 7034036
I’ve loaded a lot of ammo with a lee hand press!
My one suggestion for a balance beam is to put it up on a stand high enough that you dont have to crane your neck over to look at it.
Or use an old phones camera as a magnifying glass to see the needle easier.
Something like this would be even nicer
Or use an old phones camera as a magnifying glass to see the needle easier.
Something like this would be even nicer
D
Deleted member 113831
Guest
Edit: look for something with a close focus distance
Idk, just a pic off the web but a quick google search for usb camera returned this for 11 bucks
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Technique makes or breaks weighing. One thing to consider is absolute accuracy, i.e., My 30 grain charge is an accurate weight, maybe 30.00 grains +/- 0.01 grains, or my 30 grain charge is the same as last time, the same as last year, and the year before. Might be 30.1 grains, but it is the SAME.
Sameness makes groups.
The beam scale usually offers long term accuracy but is slow compared to dispensers.
Some of the cheaper digital reloading scales are just relabeled Chinese scales that have gone through a Quality Control sampling and are good when sold.
Good scales are not cheap. Since this is a Budget based thread, you guys using (relatively) expensive scales and dispensers won't be much help, but go ahead and post.
In addition to full scale accuracy (@ calibration weight) digital scales can have linearity errors, roll over accuracy, and auto zero capture range.
Additional errors can be temperature drift, short term electronic drift. The trick is to use technique to identify, monitor and correct for these error sources.
I use a super cheap scale but employ checks to monitor the accuracy @ the weight I am tossing.
For those on a BUDGET, technique if generally FREE.
First thing to do is determine how accurately you NEED to charge. The general rule of "+/- 0.1 grain" works, sometimes.
The "I weight to 0.002 grain" is likely a little ridiculous and not in the scope of BUDGET weighing.
Percentage of charge weight is a better metric. +/- 1% is fine for general plinking.
E.g.,
7 grains for a pistol load, 1% is a little better than +/- 0.1 grain.
30 grains for a small rifle cartridge, +/-1% is +/- 0.3 grains.
60 grains for a larger rifle cartridge, +/- 1% is +/- 0.6 grains.
Anything beyond 0.1% accuracy is borderline anal
When you read about load development in 1/2 grains steps, or 0.2 grain steps, +/- 0.6 grains just won't cut it.
If you are going for 0.2 grains, a scale that displays to 0.1 grain advertised, but only displays EVEN numbers just won't cut it.
For most cheap digital scales monitoring ZERO between each charge sometimes allows the scale electronics to capture anything close to zero as an automatic zero. Sounds good but scale drift can contribute to zero errors that will not be seen from charge to charge.
With a Zero/tare of your powder cup/pan each time you remove the cup you get a free check of the tare value. If that value changes, your charge may be wrong.
Calibrating a scale at full scale value might be convenient, but is does not tell you much about the linearity, or sensitivity at lower values.
A 500 grain digital scale is likely a 50 gram scale with a different label. Tossing 30 grain charges from a scale calibrated at 50 grams is putting a lot of trust in the scale. I suggest a check weight somewhere close to your charge. Check weights of suitable accuracy (0.1%) are cheap.
Not the really cheap ones you sometimes find on ebay, something just a little better.
A Class M1 or better, 2 gram (30.86 grains) check weight has a tolerance, when NEW of 1.2 mg ( little better than 0.02 grains) and puts you well into the anal range for small rifle charges
A 5 gram M1 check weight wound be great for 50 to 60 grain charges. The cheaper Chrome plated magnetic steel weights are fine for reloading, with the non-magnetic Stainless better. Monitoring the negative pan value when removed, occasionally 'Tossing' the check weight instead of powder is a free way to monitor your charge process.
The cheap scale I use (Much less than $50) has a 50 gram full scale.
It reads to 0.02 grains but it's best resolution is in carats. Displays to the nearest 0.005 carats.
That's better than 0.02 grains (by a little).
Mine is very repeatable if I keep room temperature constant (between HVAC cycles) and monitor performance during a charging session.
I have no doubt believing my target charges are better than +/- 0.1 grain.
My vendor (in China) will not stand behind this scale that is a couple YEARS out of warranty.
Here's a short video of Charging on the CHEAP
EDIT, I just powered it on, let it sit for a minute and checked a 2 gram, 10 carat, M1 weight, without recalibration.
View attachment 7034031
what is the bramd and where did you order it? thanks.
While I recently purchased an A&D Fx120 and that is and will remain my primary method. But I also recently bought a vintage Ohaus beam scale on eBay to play with. In addition to the excellent suggestion above, the link below has some good tips on how to tune up your beam scale yourself...
Beam Scale Tuning
1. Polish the knife edge (I used a ceramic hone for this)
2. Clean the agates and agate holder to ensure free movement of the agates.
3. Level the scale body, then adjust the weights inside the pan holder so that when the scale is zeroed out, the body is also pretty much level as well.
4. Adjust the hanger wire for the pan so it doesn't bind up.
5. Add a needle to the indicator at the end of the beam (will require you to adjust weights in the pan holder). Helps for reading when using a USB camera such as above (I haven't done this yet)
There are then tricks to ensure linearity throughout the range of the scales capability, but I haven't gone that far. Lastly, don't roughly handle your scale.
All of this (vintage scale via eBay, tuning/cleaning, USB camera) can all be done relatively inexpensively.
Some of those might be a little out of the bargain bin category
Is the gempro 250 still made? It is a 50grams X 0.001 gram load cell scale.
And is it made in the same factory, using the same load cell as the cheapo one?
Or did the first batch get sold and vendors are waiting on another shipment?
I'm going to buy this one as an experiment for this forum.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/50g-0-001g...871613?hash=item48aab89ffd:g:JAQAAOSwW3Vaw1Jh
It LOOKS like the one I have.
When it comes in I will cal and test and post results.
For $23, I'll risk it.
Cheaper than the one I bought sometime back in 2014 I think.
I have it pictured in posts on another forum from early 2015.
Oldest post I could find with this scale was from Jan 2017 so it's not as old as I thought.
OK, bought one.
Estimated delivery: Mar 15 – 26
One thing is the Chinese sellers on ebay are web people, not scale people.
Mine does not read to 0.001 gram, it counts by two, 0.002 grams.
In carats it reads to 0.005 ct, which IS 0.001 gram.
Some ads say 0.01 grains, I doubt it. Mine counts by 0.02 in grains.
Your vendor for one of these will likely be of NO help if you have problems.
Is the gempro 250 still made? It is a 50grams X 0.001 gram load cell scale.
And is it made in the same factory, using the same load cell as the cheapo one?
Or did the first batch get sold and vendors are waiting on another shipment?
I'm going to buy this one as an experiment for this forum.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/50g-0-001g...871613?hash=item48aab89ffd:g:JAQAAOSwW3Vaw1Jh
It LOOKS like the one I have.
When it comes in I will cal and test and post results.
For $23, I'll risk it.
I have it pictured in posts on another forum from early 2015.
Oldest post I could find with this scale was from Jan 2017 so it's not as old as I thought.
OK, bought one.
Estimated delivery: Mar 15 – 26
One thing is the Chinese sellers on ebay are web people, not scale people.
Mine does not read to 0.001 gram, it counts by two, 0.002 grams.
In carats it reads to 0.005 ct, which IS 0.001 gram.
Some ads say 0.01 grains, I doubt it. Mine counts by 0.02 in grains.
Your vendor for one of these will likely be of NO help if you have problems.
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Look these over, currently open auctions.
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...A0.H0.X505+scale.TRS0&_nkw=505+scale&_sacat=0
Sales history of 505 scale on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...lc=1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...A0.H0.X505+scale.TRS0&_nkw=505+scale&_sacat=0
Sales history of 505 scale on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...lc=1&_salic=1&_sop=12&_dmd=1&_ipg=50&_fosrp=1
Scott Parker used to tune up Ohaus balance beam scales - really nice work, reasonable price. Is he still working at this?
I load +- .2 on RCBS chargemaster. This is a group shot at 100 yd with that loading discipline. Lower shot is first round cold bore. Next four in that one hole. IMO if you ain’t shooting bench rest, you can’t hold any better than .1 or .2 Grn of powder. Skip the high dollar scale and concentrate on neck tension and brass prep. However, if you are all into internet best this or that, drive on!
Well, that says a lot.
Those with the $1000+ scale/dispensers just have money to burn.
Probably just throw charges all day to 0.02 grains then toss the powder back in the hopper and
do it all again.
You are well on your way to having articles appear about you in the gun rags.
(my apologies if they already have)
Excluding the cold bore shot that looks to be well under 1/2 MOA.
I hope one day my groups will be that good.
Could you start another thread on how you control neck tension?
Unless it's secret stuff it could benefit a bunch of us looking for tiny groups (me included).
Those with the $1000+ scale/dispensers just have money to burn.
Probably just throw charges all day to 0.02 grains then toss the powder back in the hopper and
do it all again.
You are well on your way to having articles appear about you in the gun rags.
(my apologies if they already have)
Excluding the cold bore shot that looks to be well under 1/2 MOA.
I hope one day my groups will be that good.
Could you start another thread on how you control neck tension?
Unless it's secret stuff it could benefit a bunch of us looking for tiny groups (me included).
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Correct. I bring mine in from the garage, plug in, turn on for like an hour prior to playing with it so all the electronics get up to room temperature.
Many when first starting out try to buy in to get wallet groups. Then you have the crowd who will not have anything but the best. Such is man nature when questing.
I guess there are those that think money buys groups, and in a way it does.
But there is pride in ownership. That has value or high end cars wouldn't sell.
If I had the money I still probably wouldn't get one of those high end rigs.
Just being frugal, cheap, isn't it either (yes it is ). I LIKE doing good with LESS.
Still no shipping info on the $23 scale.
Just for info, you guys take good care of those beam balances. Parts are hard to come by now.
I've had to repair many of those back when I was employed.
But there is pride in ownership. That has value or high end cars wouldn't sell.
If I had the money I still probably wouldn't get one of those high end rigs.
Just being frugal, cheap, isn't it either (yes it is
). I LIKE doing good with LESS. Still no shipping info on the $23 scale.
Just for info, you guys take good care of those beam balances. Parts are hard to come by now.
I've had to repair many of those back when I was employed.
Money don't buy skill...not to say I'm like a good shooter or anything. It's been my job for nearly half my life to be accurate and whatnot... My frugal as fuck suite of Lee equipment have been serving me very well for a decade now. Been making 1/2 MOA or better ammo for many moons.
$600 dies don't help read wind or press the trigger between heartbeats on the respiratory pause.
$600 dies don't help read wind or press the trigger between heartbeats on the respiratory pause.
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In the infamous words of @TheGerman "Go be poor somewhere else."
Seriously, I get it that not everyone can afford a $1000+ scale, but to say that most folks are just "trying to buy their way to accuracy" is a generalization that mis-characterizes why most end up with one.
Time.
Can I throw charges with a standard triple beam scale and achieve 5 SD, 1/2 MOA groups? Sure.
But at this point in my life, time is what is the most expensive part of rolling my own. The way I look at it is, if I bill out at $250/hr, and the uber scale system saves me 10hrs the first couple months...hell, that's a bargain and a no brainer.
My point is, it's not always about "having the top of the line gear" (though everyone wants it). It's about making decisions on spending the money that allow you to meet your desired goals, within the time your life/lifestyle allows.
We don't have -30 deg winters here, so there's other stuff I have to do in the winter other than sit inside and drop charges onto a manual scale. That being said, if a manual scale is what you can afford, than it won't hold you back. But, you'll be letting the hobby dictate your schedule, rather than you dictating what hobbies fit your available time off.
Horses for courses I suppose....
Seriously, I get it that not everyone can afford a $1000+ scale, but to say that most folks are just "trying to buy their way to accuracy" is a generalization that mis-characterizes why most end up with one.
Time.
Can I throw charges with a standard triple beam scale and achieve 5 SD, 1/2 MOA groups? Sure.
But at this point in my life, time is what is the most expensive part of rolling my own. The way I look at it is, if I bill out at $250/hr, and the uber scale system saves me 10hrs the first couple months...hell, that's a bargain and a no brainer.
My point is, it's not always about "having the top of the line gear" (though everyone wants it). It's about making decisions on spending the money that allow you to meet your desired goals, within the time your life/lifestyle allows.
We don't have -30 deg winters here, so there's other stuff I have to do in the winter other than sit inside and drop charges onto a manual scale. That being said, if a manual scale is what you can afford, than it won't hold you back. But, you'll be letting the hobby dictate your schedule, rather than you dictating what hobbies fit your available time off.
Horses for courses I suppose....
Thats exactly why I went with the auto throw. I can have 4 charges out by the time someone can do 1 with a beam.
Well that and effort.
I dont value my time at all, wish I could charge someone 8 bucks an hour for my extra time (spent at my house, I aint busing tables). Im still sitting there in front of the tv, exactly what I would be doing otherwise. I just like not having a hassle while Im watching tv enjoying my time.
Not what I have seen over the years. Many try to buy in then give up, hence why for years upon years you seen an still see high end rifles an glass being sold that became than a safe queen after the 2nd or third outing. I've seen it all my life in many things, human nature.
Looks like youre averaging 23-24 seconds per charge? Honestly, thats not bad at all.When my $23 Chinese scale comes in, wanna race
But a challenge is a challenge.
That said, Im at like 10 seconds for powder in the pan and 0 seconds in terms of time that Im expending on it. Cant beat me in a race that I doesnt require my participation in order for me to win. Its just not on a budget.
We are to the point that we are fucking racing each others' scale times?
Do I have this right?
Do I have this right?
Yup Mr. Chairman, It's the Poor folks against the Rich folks.
A new guy comes in asking about bargain reloading and the trolls come out and show off.
Time is money.
(I'm the one that started the race thing)
A new guy comes in asking about bargain reloading and the trolls come out and show off.
Time is money.
(I'm the one that started the race thing)
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Well, I have that robot from Buck Rogers that shits out the exact charge within 1.8 seconds.
So whats up?
So whats up?
D
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I was bitching to my spouse about what a pain in the ass it is to be old, fat, slow, and ugly, go to matches and have to hump all this crap all over the place. Carrying around all the junque made it hard to pick up chicks. Having greatly superior mental acuity and agility, she pointed that that I was also stupid - I just need a caddy. This individual could carry the bag, rifles, tripod, ammo, chair, after match wine and all the rest of the crap. He could hand me the right gun so I didn't get confused and he could read the wind for me. I could pay him $5 or 10% of my winnings whichever was less. I wanted to repay her for the great idea so I offered her the job with a one-year exclusive contract. She declined. I'm not sure why.
I have an old 505 I'd let go IF it wasn't my only other one... I use a Chargemaster and unlike some other folks, I've had damn good results. It's been accurate enough for me, I'm not a benchrest shooter. I'd actually like a second one to speed things up when I have to use stick powders or am loading more precise loads on a 650.
Also check out a gunshow if you have one nearby. There is ALWAYS a table with some old timers with tons of reloading gear, much of it no longer in production, most all of it great gear. I'd take my own check weight to try 'em out.
Also check out a gunshow if you have one nearby. There is ALWAYS a table with some old timers with tons of reloading gear, much of it no longer in production, most all of it great gear. I'd take my own check weight to try 'em out.
