scales and powder dispensers

[Blasst]

I read different opinions on how accurate RCBS chargemaster's scale is if you get the combo scale and dispenser.

I was looking at getting a RCBS dispenser and a gemtech 250 or 500 scale.
Reviews seemed to deem the gemtech super accurate and the 30 year warranty sounds good.
I've read other comments like this about the RCBS combo scale and dispenser:

"At the NBRSA Nationals, a lot of the top shooters were using one. And more of them seem to be gravitating that way too.

When I visited with Bart Sauder and Billy Stevens in Billy's trailer, they each had one set up and were using it, as is. Jerry Hensler always uses two at matches, each with a battery pack, and sealed around the cover edges to keep the elements out."

So what's the story? From what I have read in tests that gemtech 250 kicks ass.
I'm upgrading my stuff. haven't reloaded in years so am just now reading up on new equipment.
thanks, Jim

 

[bobbyfairbanks]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

I am really starting to lean way more to a powder thrower. I find computer operated stuff is not as reliable as fixing a powder column and checking weight.

 

[RingingSteel]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

I have been using a Chargemaster for over a year now and have loaded over 2500 rounds through it. If you let it warm up and use the straw in the tube it is consistant enough to keep my rifles shooting 1/2 minute or better. The best time saver on my bench.

 

[Gene Poole]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

I have no issues with my Chargemaster except the occasional overthrow with stick powders (straw mod reduces this). I leave it on continuously and it is always at zero (with pan) when I start and shows my pan at the same tare weight (140.3 grains IIRC) and my 50g cal weights always weigh in at 50.00 +- 0.01 grams. so I rarely run a calibration.

 

[lvgolfer962]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RingingSteel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have been using a Chargemaster for over a year now and have loaded over 2500 rounds through it. If you let it warm up and use the straw in the tube it is consistant enough to keep my rifles shooting 1/2 minute or better. The best time saver on my bench. </div></div>

+1

Time saver is an understatement. Reloading sucks without one imo

 

[noz455sd]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

Ive got a Chargemaster and I like it alot. I put a short tube of rolled paper in it and have yet to have an over charge in maybe 300 rounds of H1000(stick powder). I also have a Scott Parker tuned 10-10 and Scott Parker Lyman M5 which are both very accurate but are alittle slower of course but maybe one of the days ill try out a target master if they are shipping them to the USA now

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

I've got about 3 years on my Chargemaster. It's more than accurate enough for short to mid range all by itself. If one wants to measure powder charges down to the last granule then go with a powder thrower, heck, even Lee Dippers, and then use a good trickler with a super accurate scale.

I see more and more Bench Rest shooters using the RCBS, especially on shorter ranges of 300 yards or less. While seating, measuring, etc, the next load is being dispensed and weighed.

 

[recarga]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

I have the lyman 1200 and it has worked great for me. I just keep the little bushing that is used for powder extra small , and it is an accurate piece of equipment.

I'm not a competitor other to compete against me but I find it pretty accurate.

 

[Utah Shooter]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

I have the Gunderson Electronic Powder Measurer. A beam scale measurer that the trickier turns until the scale grounds it out.

The first electronic measurer made that I know of. It is accurate to 1/100 of a grain. Works like a charm. Just a pain to find someone else who knows of them to compare it with.

 

[1066]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Utah Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the Gunderson Electronic Powder Measurer. A beam scale measurer that the trickier turns until the scale grounds it out.

The first electronic measurer made that I know of. It is accurate to 1/100 of a grain. Works like a charm. Just a pain to find someone else who knows of them to compare it with. </div></div>

Ahh! So you have it set up and working eh! It's something I would like to have a look at at and maybe add to my collection of about 25 assorted beam scales. I have never heard of one being used in the UK. I gather if has a vibrator feed system similar to the Omega correct?

 

[Fuzzball]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

<span style="font-style: italic">"... the Gunderson Electronic Powder Measurer... <span style="text-decoration: underline">accurate to 1/100 of a grain</span>."</span>

That's an interesting powder measuring system; how much did it cost?

To measure .01 grain normally requires a professional grade of labratory scale costing tens of thousands of dollars for just a scale with that level of accuacy and few scales have the ability to see that small of a change. That kind of accuracy and sensitivity is out of reach for most reloaders. Nor do we really need that degree of powder charge accuracy, individual primer effects alone will vary the velocity more than such a tiny amount of powder as .01 grain.

 

[QuietShootr]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadshot2</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've got about 3 years on my Chargemaster. It's more than accurate enough for short to mid range all by itself. If one wants to measure powder charges down to the last granule then go with a powder thrower, heck, <span style="font-weight: bold">even Lee Dippers, and then use a good trickler with a super accurate scale. </span>

</div></div>[color:#CC0000][/color]

I use a known highly accurate mechanical scale and either use a Lee Dipper to get the bulk of the charge and then trickle the rest in, or use a powder measure set to throw a grain light and then use the same procedure when I'm after super precision. I have a PACT dispenser/scale combo but I am finding it doesn't save me that much time because it throws over about 3 charges in 10, necessitating pouring it back and starting over. I did a little time study and over 10 rounds, throwing the charge with a powder measure into my mechanical scale and finishing with a trickler is just as fast or a little faster than using the PACT just because of the errors. Plus I think I can measure more finely with the mechanical scale, if it matters.

 

[QuietShootr]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">"... the Gunderson Electronic Powder Measurer... <span style="text-decoration: underline">accurate to 1/100 of a grain</span>."</span>

That's an interesting powder measuring system; how much did it cost?

To measure .01 grain normally requires a professional grade of labratory scale costing tens of thousands of dollars for just a scale with that level of accuacy and few scales have the ability to see that small of a change. That kind of accuracy and sensitivity is out of reach for most reloaders. Nor do we really need that degree of powder charge accuracy, individual primer effects alone will vary the velocity more than such a tiny amount of powder as .01 grain. </div></div>

I have a lab scale used for pharma work. As to whether it's valuable - .01 might be unnecessary but if you can do it it's comforting. Does it matter? I don't know - but since most of my shooting these days is at 1000, anything I can do to reduce my vertical dispersion is welcome. I doubt if you'd notice .01 at shorter range, or with a larger round than .308 at any range. It may be psychological, but it didn't cost me much (I picked it up at a business equipment sale).

 

[matthias]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

i love my charge master. load work ups are way easy , punch desired charge and it pumps it out. when you want more or less punch new numbers in. chargemaster all the way

 

[Utah Shooter]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 1066</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Utah Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have the Gunderson Electronic Powder Measurer. A beam scale measurer that the trickier turns until the scale grounds it out.

The first electronic measurer made that I know of. It is accurate to 1/100 of a grain. Works like a charm. Just a pain to find someone else who knows of them to compare it with. </div></div>

Ahh! So you have it set up and working eh! It's something I would like to have a look at at and maybe add to my collection of about 25 assorted beam scales. I have never heard of one being used in the UK. I gather if has a vibrator feed system similar to the Omega correct? </div></div>

Nice to see you here.

Yeah I do have it up and working. I have not taken it apart nor do I trust myself to do so. Looks like from the diagram that it is a vibratory system.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Fuzzball</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><span style="font-style: italic">"... the Gunderson Electronic Powder Measurer... <span style="text-decoration: underline">accurate to 1/100 of a grain</span>."</span>

That's an interesting powder measuring system; how much did it cost?

To measure .01 grain normally requires a professional grade of labratory scale costing tens of thousands of dollars for just a scale with that level of accuacy and few scales have the ability to see that small of a change. That kind of accuracy and sensitivity is out of reach for most reloaders. Nor do we really need that degree of powder charge accuracy, individual primer effects alone will vary the velocity more than such a tiny amount of powder as .01 grain. </div></div>

From those who I have talked with about these scales they are a piece of art almost (as ugly as they are). One gent I was talking to about them said

"<span style="font-style: italic">I have tested my Gunderson charges with a Denver Instruments Scale that can read the weight of a finger print.....

The Gunderson "IS" that accurate.

I have a spare, Transistorized (Late Production), Gunderson that I'll sell for $2500.00..... if you find a buyer.....?

..bob.. </span>"

Now I am no expert on this scale. I agree with you. Is there a need for a scale that accurate? I find it even hard to believe that a flake of Varget even weighs that much.

There was a pdf that I came accross a while ago. It was a gun magazine from back in the 60's. Brand new list price was 129.99 I believe.

 

[Deadshot2]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Utah Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a spare, Transistorized (Late Production), Gunderson that I'll sell for $2500.00..... if you find a buyer.....? </div></div>

[/quote]

For that price I think I'd just buy two Promethius scales. Something that complicated surely should have a spare

 

[memilanuk]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

Did the Prometheus suddenly go on sale?

 

[427Cobra]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

No not the Gen2 any way

 

[QuiggyB]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

I have had a chargemaster and currently have the MyWeigh GemPro 250 and an Omega powder trickler. I also recently got a Sartorius GD503 but thats in a different class.

The chargemaster will get you under .2 grains and generally keep you closer to .1 - .15 grains if you learn its quirks. The update speed on the scale is slow and it has software that is making it look like its doing a better job than it is. It perfectly fine for hunting ammo. For competition use its really a poor choice.

The GemPro 250 (you dont want the 500 for reloading) with any kind of powder thrower is faster to produce more accuracy. It is easy to stay within .04 grains with it while keeping speed up and you can get things down to the flake of powder if you spend a little more time. The routine is throw your charge in the pan, weigh it, do large scale adjustments, reweigh it, add or remove a few granules and you are done.

You develop techniques to keep your speed up while being able to detect when too much drift has crept in. I do it by knowing what my pan weighs and zeroing the scale with the pan on the scale. Then when I pick up the pan (poweder in it or not) it should read negative my pans weight. If its off a few hundredths of a grain one way or another I just adjust the weight of the powder charge accordingly. If it starts getting off by more than .04 grains I tare it before starting the next charge. Generally it stays right within .02 grains.

 

[Utah Shooter]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Deadshot2</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Utah Shooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have a spare, Transistorized (Late Production), Gunderson that I'll sell for $2500.00..... if you find a buyer.....? </div></div>

</div></div>

For that price I think I'd just buy two Promethius scales. Something that complicated surely should have a spare

[/quote]

Yeah that is way up there if you ask me too. I was looking at getting rid of mine a while ago but could never find an accurate price for it. From what I understand this is where Prometheus got their idea from.

 

[Blasst]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: QuiggyB</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I have had a chargemaster and currently have the MyWeigh GemPro 250 and an Omega powder trickler. I also recently got a Sartorius GD503 but thats in a different class.

The chargemaster will get you under .2 grains and generally keep you closer to .1 - .15 grains if you learn its quirks. The update speed on the scale is slow and it has software that is making it look like its doing a better job than it is. It perfectly fine for hunting ammo. For competition use its really a poor choice.

The GemPro 250 (you dont want the 500 for reloading) with any kind of powder thrower is faster to produce more accuracy. It is easy to stay within .04 grains with it while keeping speed up and you can get things down to the flake of powder if you spend a little more time. The routine is throw your charge in the pan, weigh it, do large scale adjustments, reweigh it, add or remove a few granules and you are done.

You develop techniques to keep your speed up while being able to detect when too much drift has crept in. I do it by knowing what my pan weighs and zeroing the scale with the pan on the scale. Then when I pick up the pan (poweder in it or not) it should read negative my pans weight. If its off a few hundredths of a grain one way or another I just adjust the weight of the powder charge accordingly. If it starts getting off by more than .04 grains I tare it before starting the next charge. Generally it stays right within .02 grains.
</div></div>


If the chargemaster is a poor choice for competition what is a good choice without spending an arm and a leg??

 

[Shakeber]

Re: scales and powder dispensers

I recently bought a A & D FX-200i scale and am totally impressed with the accuracy. It is capable of repeating 0.01 gr accuracy. That is the approximate weight of 1 stick of Varget powder. I was able to achieve <.5 moa with an RCBS 5-0-5 scale and can't wait to shoot the 20 rounds that I have loaded with the new scale. This scale is easy to use to weigh and classify brass but when it comes to weighing the powder I will have to come up with a better way to trickle. If I trickle with the wind break and place a funnel in the hole in the top some of the powder is spilled out of the small pan onto the weighing pan. I find that I have to pinch some powder between two fingers to get the best accuracy. Will let you'all know how things work out.