I for one say this was a good post as it brings more insight into how these scams function. As well as the depth of the scam.
Don’t ban me brah
Don’t ban me brah
Optics Scammer amongst us - “wading”
- Thread starter LongTatLaw
- Start date
You won't learn, none of you do, next week it will be the same thing with a different set of names
We have a report button, wasn't use, we have warned you multiple times, wasn't heeded, we have said, protect yourself, get details, get a phone number, real-time image, don't care, none of it wasn't followed,
you want to act like this is a for sale site, well you'll get it, it's gonna hurt too and those grandfathered in will be far and few between.
Changes are coming, already introduced you to the team, they have analyzed the site for months, next will be putting the changes in to play.
We are switching to new servers to handle the changes, we have a second set of box(es) as a test platform, & back up, the traffic is such that in order to handle the volume we are moving machines to the latest and greatest. The current PX structure will be a distant memory pretty soon.
We have a report button, wasn't use, we have warned you multiple times, wasn't heeded, we have said, protect yourself, get details, get a phone number, real-time image, don't care, none of it wasn't followed,
you want to act like this is a for sale site, well you'll get it, it's gonna hurt too and those grandfathered in will be far and few between.
Changes are coming, already introduced you to the team, they have analyzed the site for months, next will be putting the changes in to play.
We are switching to new servers to handle the changes, we have a second set of box(es) as a test platform, & back up, the traffic is such that in order to handle the volume we are moving machines to the latest and greatest. The current PX structure will be a distant memory pretty soon.
This is some scary shit. While I've never been taken (yet), I've bought and sold here several times ... all with great results. That said, I'm probably going to find best new prices via Leupold VIP, ExpertVoice, Veteran Discounts (from a bunch of manufacturers), etc. ... and just buy new from now on. Selling seems much safer since the product doesn't go anywhere until I have the payment. Buy buying used on unregulated boards like this ... probably no more.
like others have said, careful with what you say to paypal. Im permanently banned for accepting money off a gunbroker auction and the guy put in the notes it was for a shotgun. theyll take your money and ban you for life if its for anything gun related. its all in their fine print.
off topic, thats a killer frank outlaw quote you got there.
"Watch your thoughts; they become words.
Watch your words; they become actions.
Watch your actions; they become habits.
Watch your habits; they become character.
Watch your character; it becomes your destiny.
--Frank Outlaw"
I for one, have never experienced a problem purchasing on this site, as the price seemed right and the seller seemed to be alright as well. I feel bad for those that have been scammed but we all should know these people are with us - internet, cellular telephone, mail, salesmen - if one hasn’t been scammed at least once prior to the age of 25, you are very fortunate indeed. We should get just a little smarter as time goes on relative to these scumbags.
This site is a knowledge site, first and foremost, but it’s also an excellent site for outdoorsmen, hunters, competitive shooters and gunpowder junkies to sell and purchase tools of their trade and for that I’m grateful. Sure hope the coming changes aren’t too disruptive for the vast majority of us.
This site is a knowledge site, first and foremost, but it’s also an excellent site for outdoorsmen, hunters, competitive shooters and gunpowder junkies to sell and purchase tools of their trade and for that I’m grateful. Sure hope the coming changes aren’t too disruptive for the vast majority of us.
They can be quite convincing! I asked for a picture of the gun they were trying to sell me with my name handwritten on a piece of paper. They took awhile to send it to me but it looked pretty good except after closer inspection you could see it was a cut and paste. Make sure you ask for pictures with large files! They love to send little bitty pics with very little detail.
I’m pretty new on the Hide and I’ve bought some really nice stuff without any problems. I hate to hear that thieves have robbed other members directly and each and every one of us indirectly. The fellas in charge briefly mentioned huge changes, in the near future, in how the PX is operated. The good times are soon to be over and all because of these scumbags. If I find anything suspicious about a listing I’ll be reporting it and I suggest everyone else does too. What a F’ ing shame Guys. Smdh.
Im kinda new around here. Actually I was here many years ago and took a sabbatical. Recently I have made several purchases since I am now able to get back into the hobby. Some small and some larger dollar deals. I am pretty happy this resource is available to help me get back into things I need and the folks I have dealt with have been great.
Dont know much about the scams going on here but rather than talking around things and also threatening to shut things down, perhaps it would be more productive to recommend ways to identify and avoid them? Everyone wants F&F on PP but others say only use G&S.How to resolve that without the seller being charged the fee? etc.Pictures, phone calls, how will that help?
IOW, what’s the safest procedure?
Dont know much about the scams going on here but rather than talking around things and also threatening to shut things down, perhaps it would be more productive to recommend ways to identify and avoid them? Everyone wants F&F on PP but others say only use G&S.How to resolve that without the seller being charged the fee? etc.Pictures, phone calls, how will that help?
IOW, what’s the safest procedure?
There is no "Safest Procedure"......
there are a lot of really good guys on here. with that said, there are some shit heads too and everyday a new batch of scammers pops up on this site and others trying to swindle people out of their hard earned cash. easiest way to circumvent the PP G&S is to just add the 2.9% + $0.30 (last i checked) fee. so if a seller wants to net $200 from a sale and you want to use G&S for added protection, you send $206.10. he nets his $200 and you pay $6.10 for piece of mind.
you have to vette everyone and everything. ask a million questions, ask for more photos, ask for something ridiculous to be written on a piece of paper and placed next to the item you're purchasing with a phone or computer in the photo showing the current date and time. if someone can't be bothered to comply and send you what you're asking for, they can keep their shit.
you can't go by a drivers license, or any other form of ID as that type of documentation is easily forged. Don't try to google their address as that's easily faked too. get their phone number and call them. have a conversation and figure out a way to make a deal that you are both comfortable with.
Make yourself a hard target by doing your homework. the ones on here that give a shit will be happy to send you whatever photos/info you want to see or have a short phone conversation with you to talk about said item or maybe to just shoot the shit and make sure you're not a simple, or have some weird foreign accent. one of the nice things on here is that you can back out of a sale at anytime for ANY reason!
"6. Declining a transaction is not a rule violation. In order to protect the membership during their transactions, we are allowing them to decline to complete a transaction for any reason at all.
If for any reason the parties cannot agree or the transaction appears suspect, you can say no thanks."
the scammers on here get better all the time. they do their research on us and our gear; they learn our lingo; they learn selling SOP's, and we need to evolve in kind.
... and for fuck's sake, can we please use some common sense?!?!?
I still stand by that the gold standard is a pic of the item with their id then goggling all info.
Money orders with tracking are the biggest red flags I have seen.
PayPal with a credit card seems to be the safest because your credit card will refund your money if fraudulent
Money orders with tracking are the biggest red flags I have seen.
PayPal with a credit card seems to be the safest because your credit card will refund your money if fraudulent
This is disheartening. A few douchebags scam people's hard-earned money, and Paypal certainly will not help.
This is a wake-up call for me since I tend to trust people here and send all my PayPal payments with family and friends. I always get e phone number and talk to the seller/buyer to get a sense of the situation though.
This is a wake-up call for me since I tend to trust people here and send all my PayPal payments with family and friends. I always get e phone number and talk to the seller/buyer to get a sense of the situation though.
Due diligence like @lowlight said. I have nerd level number of posts and transactions on here and haven’t had one go sour. Do your homework and play it safe 
exactly! people get burned due to their own stupidity and then run crying to the mods and lowlight like they can actually do something about it.Due diligence like @lowlight said. I have nerd level number of posts and transactions on here and haven’t had one go sour. Do your homework and play it safe
The PX is like being in a boxing ring.... keep your fucking hands up -OR- don't be surprised when you get tagged on the chin.
Fairly new to the hide but I have enjoyed the forums, discussions, entertainment & PX with fairly good results. As others have said...I try to use common sense. If a ad in the PX seems to be to good to be true, then it probably is. I NEVER send a check or MO and always use PayPal G&S vs F&F or any other "pay site". I gladly pay the additional 3.5% on top of the the total for G&S. If for nothing but just for the peace of mind. But first and foremost...
COMMON SENSE!!! Or I ask my wife
COMMON SENSE!!! Or I ask my wife
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Fairly new to the hide but I have enjoyed the forums, discussions, entertainment & PX with fairly good results. As others have said...I try to use common sense. If a ad in the PX seems to be to good to be true, then it probably is. I NEVER send a check or MO and always use PayPal G&S vs F&F or any other "pay site". I gladly pay the additional 3.5% on top of the the total for G&S. If for nothing but just for for the peace of mind. But first and foremost...
COMMON SENSE!!! Or I ask my wife
Agreed, I to really enjoyed dealing with people on here. I have gotten some awesome insight and products as well. It sucks that their are shitty people out there that always want to ruin a good thing.
Glad you asked. The safest procedure is tell the seller you will meet them at the place of your choosing. If it's someone you don't know, you will be smart and will have someone you know armed and overwatching the proceedings. Meaning he's nearby, hiding in plain sight (and you know where he is), and watching like a hawk.
Am I missing something. If buying can you not use USPS money order. It is insured, federal offense if an item not sent (I realize that they have to catch the person first )
Or PayPal paid with credit card even though you in cru the added expense, will the credit card company not protect you With fraud protection.
Or PayPal paid with credit card even though you in cru the added expense, will the credit card company not protect you With fraud protection.
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i've been off this site for the last 4-5 months. Last nite was the first time logging on it seems like forever. From reading these post, seems like scamming has gotten a lot worse. I've been lucky, met a lot of good people on here and had great dealings. Spent waaaaay to much money though. Joined in 13 and the info i have learned is invaluable.
Fairly new to the hide but I have enjoyed the forums, discussions, entertainment & PX with fairly good results. As others have said...I try to use common sense. If a ad in the PX seems to be to good to be true, then it probably is. I NEVER send a check or MO and always use PayPal G&S vs F&F or any other "pay site". I gladly pay the additional 3.5% on top of the the total for G&S. If for nothing but just for the peace of mind. But first and foremost...
COMMON SENSE!!! Or I ask my wife
Price was only about 100$ below normal.
Used pp business
asked for pics
and pics of an I’d
and made him sign a contract.
This one was tough to spot. I recall that account posting in a variety of other forums and the posts themselves looked fairly normal/routine. His prices were also fairly unremarkable and wouldn’t have raised red flags with most folks...Didn’t strike me as as a scammer...You did all the right things, including protecting yourself with PayPal GS so hoping your diligence and caution pays off in the end.
Jesus come on guys it’s fucking 2020 you have an iPhone and fucking FaceTime. Show me the merch and your DL with matching ugly mug. How hard is it to use methods and means to verify and then pay with a system or format that has recompense. Always use a CC and always ask for a tracking number. If you use USPS money orders, know your local postal inspector, they love putting people in jail for scams.
Another victim of PayPal here. Be careful using them for selling of guns or parts. As an engraver who teaches the trade, I sell plastic castings on my website, of engraved gun parts for students to study the engraving. PayPal saw “1911 Slide” in the description and that was all it took to shut me down. Luckily I’d emptied the account otherwise it would have been a 180 day min hold on my money. And good luck trying to explain that it wasn’t a real gun. Just a plastic model of a part. Paypal phone operators are powerless to intervene.
On a similar note I was flying with a plastic 1911 slide model casting to a class and it took the airport security 30 min to decide whether I could board with the damn thing in my carry on. They just kept repeating “but it looks like a gun part” over and over, while I’m thinking, “just use your fucking brain for a second and let me fly, cause if you had an IQ of 20 you could see it’s just a block of solid plastic”. That’s the climate we live in. If you can make it past the scammers, people like PayPal will shut you down and keep your cash in the blink of an eye and you have nearly zero recourse.
On a similar note I was flying with a plastic 1911 slide model casting to a class and it took the airport security 30 min to decide whether I could board with the damn thing in my carry on. They just kept repeating “but it looks like a gun part” over and over, while I’m thinking, “just use your fucking brain for a second and let me fly, cause if you had an IQ of 20 you could see it’s just a block of solid plastic”. That’s the climate we live in. If you can make it past the scammers, people like PayPal will shut you down and keep your cash in the blink of an eye and you have nearly zero recourse.
Also if you just need to report a scam there is the report button the lowlight keeps telling us to use. You can also make a post and report it to get ahold of them.
So i sold an item on another site for a few hundred dollars. Guy paid through PayPal using his credit card. He claimed item wasn't as described and filed a claim with HIS CARD NOT PAYPAL. He kept the item and the credit card took the money back through PayPal. Paypal said sorry that I had to get the guy to send the item back which is impossible. So ALWAYS use a credit card through there unless you trust the seller because then you will be covered. Paypal protection is pretty worthless
Responding to your WTB add is not a new scam here or on any forum. Mostly new guys with little to no posts and multiple accounts. Some forums they are so new you can’t even PM them because they don’t have privileges yet. A sure red flag is that don’t actually have the item but a friend does and they want you to send an email to their friend. Walk away from these without even replying more times then not it’s a scam.
I’ve been here a long time post in just about every threads I’m easy to search. I try to deal with others like me. Hate to see stuff change but I’ve met Lowlight and one thing for sure he will not put up with BS.
I’ve been here a long time post in just about every threads I’m easy to search. I try to deal with others like me. Hate to see stuff change but I’ve met Lowlight and one thing for sure he will not put up with BS.
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got a question. why do you guys assume money orders equal scammer? I pay with money orders quite a bit. it keeps it cash. allows me to pay cash over distances. if you dont ship til the money order clears whats the difference?
Money orders are something scammers like because they are like cash. They don’t have to worry about finding the same bank you use or having a bank account to cash
i dont see why either of those things matter. to me its the same as a check. as long as the money clears the bank. Ive been taking money orders on gunbroker sales for over a decade and occasionally use them to purchase things. I hadnt heard anyone claim money orders are a scammers tool til i showed up here. I have heard elsewhere that people have been able to create fake walmart money orders but if it clears the bank its good. just find it odd. whatever we are a product of our experiences. and you wouldnt be saying that if people hadnt tried ripping people off with money orders in these parts, im assuming.
PP actually prohibits the use of their platform to pay for firearms and accessories so you might be out unless your item has dual use(you are looking at birds).
Let’s assume for arguments sake you (or any seller) is a scammer...If I pay you with a money order, you cash it (it clears) but you never ship my item, do I have any recourse with the USPS or issuer of the money order?
cant the same be said if you send me a check? Does Venmo, or cashap or any of the others besides ANTI gun paypal allow you to claim fraud if the person doesnt send?
Ive been burned by what upto that point had been a legitimate company concealment furniture company. paid with credit card. and even with that I lost fighting the charges along with most other people that purchased from them. only option was court and that was a crapshoot. we won a class action but never saw a penny because there was nothing to collect. and it took well over a year to get to the point where i was seeing nothing in return for my thousands.
moral of the story, there isnt any scammer proof form of payment these days. make sure you thoroughly vet who your buying from and know its a roll of the dice at that. lots of con artists out there.
Yea that’s what I figured, as afar as I know there’s no recourse other than either with PayPal or your credit card. I use those methods in conjunction with each other so that I have options if, despite my best due diligence efforts, I get scammed anyway. They aren’t 100% fool-proof, as your story above illustrates but I’d rather have say a 50/50 chance at getting my funds back via PayPal GS vs 0% with a MO.
Personal checks: I’m not sure if a personal check viabank had any options for scams. I have had visa debit charges reversed In the past in two types of situations:
1). Charge shows up against my account that I didn’t authorize or approve
2). Purchased something via my Visa debit that was never received (on-line retailer)
I wasn’t sure if a MO had any recourse options since I never use them.
with money orders you can get the money back if you keep your receipt/ stub and its not cashed. Im not sure if theres any sort of fraud protection. Knock on wood Ive never had issues in the gun community. Ebay on the other hand, every other persons out there trying to take advantage of you. but gun community upto this point has proven to be different in my experiences. but still, youve got to be careful who you deal with especially when alot of doll hairs are exchanging hands. I just live by, I dont care how you pay, it all spends the same. The item doesnt ship til the money clears. If Im buying than Ive got to vet and know if its not a real company im purchasing from, the transaction is based on trust.
I just found it interesting money orders were singled out. scammers will come at you every way to tuesday.
As always, your first line of defense is always situation awareness and due diligence. my question was framed with a buyer’s perspective in mind (I venture to guess MOs were singled out with the buyer in mind since as that was the nature of OP’s particular fraud issue). In the case of a MO, you have recourse if it’s never cashed which can help if the MO was lost in transit and not cashed. But once cashed, the funds are gone.
But what if you discover you’ve been defrauded while the funds are still in route. Can you issue a “stop payment” on a money order and get your money back? I would think so but not 100% sure.
Re gun community: yep agree-knock on wood, ive never been scammed as a buyer or a seller on here or elsewhere either.
ya as long as you have your receipt and its not been cashed you can get your money back.
So why is PP the default payment option for thousands of firearm parts and accessories on ebay? And PP often an option on gunbroker/other sites for parts/accessories?
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