Rifle Scopes Schmidt and Bender Christmas Tree reticle

[mrtoyz]

David,
What’s list price?

 

[Hazzapatrol]

Locking or non locking? Non is 3300 and locking is 3600. I'll be opening up a pre order soon. Those prices are going to be going up soon too.

 

[Glassaholic]

Any chance this reticle might be making it to the 3-20x50 (not the ultra short)? Do we know which scopes this reticle will be available in besides the 5-25?

 

[thestacche]

Any chance this reticle might be making it to the 3-20x50 (not the ultra short)? Do we know which scopes this reticle will be available in besides the 5-25?

I asked them a few days ago.

“Thank you for your message. The Grid will be available from April on in our most popular scope 5-25x56. We haven´t made a final decision yet, which scope models will have the Grid reticle.”

 

[Glassaholic]

I asked them a few days ago.

“Thank you for your message. The Grid will be available from April on in our most popular scope 5-25x56. We haven´t made a final decision yet, which scope models will have the Grid reticle.”

How nicely vague of S&B, but I'm not surprised
Can I make a guess and say this reticle will be available in the 3-27, the US 3-20 and maybe the 5-45 in the near future.

 

[Hazzapatrol]

Fun little interview from Shot Show 2019

 

[Glassaholic]

Fun little interview from Shot Show 2019

At 30 seconds he explains why they put the grid over the main horizontal stadia, for multiple targets at different distances (he mentions 400, 600 and 800) you would dial for the 600y and hold over for 800y but hold under for 400y at least I think that is what he is saying. I don't shoot comps but I'm trying to wrap my head around why? If I'm not going to dial for each target, why not leave my scope at zero and hold over for all the other targets downrange? Seems like I'd get more confused with which target I dialed for and then all the others which I held for but maybe it is a better/quicker way.

 

[Hazzapatrol]

At 30 seconds he explains why they put the grid over the main horizontal stadia, for multiple targets at different distances (he mentions 400, 600 and 800) you would dial for the 600y and hold over for 800y but hold under for 400y at least I think that is what he is saying. I don't shoot comps but I'm trying to wrap my head around why? If I'm not going to dial for each target, why not leave my scope at zero and hold over for all the other targets downrange? Seems like I'd get more confused with which target I dialed for and then all the others which I held for but maybe it is a better/quicker way.

That's me in the video. Let me try to explain. In a stressful situation like under the clock in a match, It is easy to get lost counting down the hold overs. So, if we dial the middle target then you have less distance from center to count making it easier and much faster. Ideally, you would still dial for every target if you can but that isn't always allowed or useful in short time stages.

 

[Glassaholic]

That's me in the video. Let me try to explain. In a stressful situation like under the clock in a match, It is easy to get lost counting down the hold overs. So, if we dial the middle target then you have less distance from center to count making it easier and much faster. Ideally, you would still dial for every target if you can but that isn't always allowed or useful in short time stages.

I didn't know you were a Schmidt rep, that's good to know. When you say that it is much easier and faster to hold you're saying that moving the scope that extra mil or two if you didn't dial elevation is going to be harder and slower? Maybe I'm just not seeing it, a through the scope video showing how this would work would be helpful, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to wrap my head around how having 2 mils of grid above the main horizontal stadia is truly going to make that much of a difference.

 

[Hazzapatrol]

I didn't know you were a Schmidt rep, that's good to know. When you say that it is much easier and faster to hold you're saying that moving the scope that extra mil or two if you didn't dial elevation is going to be harder and slower? Maybe I'm just not seeing it, a through the scope video showing how this would work would be helpful, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to wrap my head around how having 2 mils of grid above the main horizontal stadia is truly going to make that much of a difference.

In a match scenario it is easy to get lost counting down the tree. I've personally found myself counting my holds a few times to make sure it was correct. However, when you only have 2 mils or so to count from center, it's much easier and faster. You might also have to take in consideration the shooting position. From prone it's not too hard to count down, but the more unstable the position the harder it can be to stay focused on counting. I hope that helps.

 

[Hazzapatrol]

I didn't know you were a Schmidt rep, that's good to know. When you say that it is much easier and faster to hold you're saying that moving the scope that extra mil or two if you didn't dial elevation is going to be harder and slower? Maybe I'm just not seeing it, a through the scope video showing how this would work would be helpful, I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just trying to wrap my head around how having 2 mils of grid above the main horizontal stadia is truly going to make that much of a difference.

Through the scope video and photos will be coming soon. Just have to get a scope in first.

 

[Glassaholic]

In a match scenario it is easy to get lost counting down the tree. I've personally found myself counting my holds a few times to make sure it was correct. However, when you only have 2 mils or so to count from center, it's much easier and faster. You might also have to take in consideration the shooting position. From prone it's not too hard to count down, but the more unstable the position the harder it can be to stay focused on counting. I hope that helps.

That does help a lot, thank you for your patience with me. The stable vs. unstable positions also make a lot of sense, and then add stress due to time constraints, etc. and I can begin to see how this might benefit. Looking forward to more pics and vids as well. Now if only you could convince your German counterparts to put the reticle in the 3-27 and 3-20's, but to be honest I'm thrilled the 3-20 is going to get the MSR2 soon.

 

[thestacche]

That's me in the video. Let me try to explain. In a stressful situation like under the clock in a match, It is easy to get lost counting down the hold overs. So, if we dial the middle target then you have less distance from center to count making it easier and much faster. Ideally, you would still dial for every target if you can but that isn't always allowed or useful in short time stages.

Totally agree it’s a great idea and I love the reticle. Dial the middle target and hold under and over for the other ones.

 

[Hazzapatrol]

If anyone is interested in placing an order for a 5-25x56 PMII with the new GRID (either DT/ST or MTC/LT or MTC disabled/LT) Shoot us a message. They are due to arrive at the end of April and I can lock in a price before any changes are made. $3300 for the DT/ST and $3600 for the MTC/LT or Disabled MTC/LT.

David
Precision Rifle Division
605-228-3315

 

[Nik H]

Pardon the bluntness but April of what year. Their track record with product releases leaves much to be desired

 

[Hazzapatrol]

Pardon the bluntness but April of what year. Their track record with product releases leaves much to be desired

I completely understand the frustration. It will be April of this year, 2019. GRID reticles are on order and just need to come in and be assembled.

 

[Covertnoob5]

At 30 seconds he explains why they put the grid over the main horizontal stadia, for multiple targets at different distances (he mentions 400, 600 and 800) you would dial for the 600y and hold over for 800y but hold under for 400y at least I think that is what he is saying. I don't shoot comps but I'm trying to wrap my head around why? If I'm not going to dial for each target, why not leave my scope at zero and hold over for all the other targets downrange? Seems like I'd get more confused with which target I dialed for and then all the others which I held for but maybe it is a better/quicker way.

Just to expound a little. Another reason to dial a middle target is if it’s a mover. It’s much easier to hit a mover when it’s at the center of your reticle than having to hold elevation and wind. So
static target: 300
Mover: 450
Static target: 650

It would be easier to hold under, hold center, hold over, in that scenario.

 

[Hazzapatrol]

Just to expound a little. Another reason to dial a middle target is if it’s a mover. It’s much easier to hit a mover when it’s at the center of your reticle than having to hold elevation and wind. So
static target: 300
Mover: 450
Static target: 650

It would be easier to hold under, hold center, hold over, in that scenario.

That is a great analysis. There are numerous ways this type of reticle will be helpful. Can't wait to get it back in hand and explore the possibilities.

David
Precision Rifle Division
605-228-3315

 

[Nik H]

Reticle is only available in 5-25. That will be a hiccup for a lot of people with 3-27.

If true, I have no understanding of the thought process at S&B. I would never buy another 5-25 unless they correct the optical issues at the lower magnifications.
I love the two I have but it is price uncompetitive at $3.5K . You get what...a new reticle with the same optics and turrets. Their product management team needs to understand the landscape today.

I don't understand why they don't introduce it in a better optical design like the 3-27.

Just my 2 cents

 

[Dthomas3523]

If true, I have no understanding of the thought process at S&B. I would never buy another 5-25 unless they correct the optical issues at the lower magnifications.
I love the two I have but it is price uncompetitive at $3.5K . You get what...a new reticle with the same optics and turrets. Their product management team needs to understand the landscape today.

I don't understand why they don't introduce it in a better optical design like the 3-27.

Just my 2 cents

Agreed. Hopefully they meant it was only available currently in the 5-25.

 

[Glassaholic]

If true, I have no understanding of the thought process at S&B. I would never buy another 5-25 unless they correct the optical issues at the lower magnifications.
I love the two I have but it is price uncompetitive at $3.5K . You get what...a new reticle with the same optics and turrets. Their product management team needs to understand the landscape today.

I don't understand why they don't introduce it in a better optical design like the 3-27.

Just my 2 cents

I hear what you're saying Nik and completely agree, but that being said I bet they still sell a ton of them. As long as people keep buying the 5-25 Schmidt has no reason to revamp it, though I wish they would.

David, any idea when the MSR2 reticles in the 3-20's and 3-27 will make it to our shores?

 

[Dthomas3523]

Wait, what optical issues at lower power?

 

[Dthomas3523]

I hear what you're saying Nik and completely agree, but that being said I bet they still sell a ton of them. As long as people keep buying the 5-25 Schmidt has no reason to revamp it, though I wish they would.

David, any idea when the MSR2 reticles in the 3-20's and 3-27 will make it to our shores?

Probably the same time good reticles make it into the 5-45.

Schmidt definitely takes their time.

 

[Nik H]

I hear what you're saying Nik and completely agree, but that being said I bet they still sell a ton of them. As long as people keep buying the 5-25 Schmidt has no reason to revamp it, though I wish they would.

David, any idea when the MSR2 reticles in the 3-20's and 3-27 will make it to our shores?

I have no doubt about their ability to sell them. Still makes no sense

 

[texag0842]

I'll be the odd one and say I still think the S&B 5-25 is the scope to beat.

That said I really want the MSR2 in a 3-27 or 5-25 and I'll be selling the TT Gen3xr for it eventually.

 

[Nik H]

I thought as much as well until I tried the NF 7-35...I like it much more as a whole. Optically, the S&B may be a touch better but everything else pales in comparison.

I have my S&Bs on my AR10 and my Annie 64 MPR custom. I can tell you that nothing beats the 5-25 PMII for an NRL .22 stick. I have the Gen IIXR reticle on that one and it is a hell of a combination.

 

[texag0842]

@Nik H

That's funny. I have a NF 7-35 on my Vudoo .22 right now.

I can't get the S&B to work with the left handed action on my Vudoo. Smashing my hand into the illumination knob.

What I see happening long term is selling the NF and TT.

Running a S&B 3-27 MSR2 on the AI, a 5-20US MSR on SR25, and order a 3-20MSR2 without illumination for the Vudoo

 

[Sportin Wood]

I can tell you that nothing beats the 5-25 PMII for an NRL .22 stick. I have the Gen IIXR reticle on that one and it is a hell of a combination.

I am considering selling my 5-25 with Gen2XR reticle for the new GRID scope. The new NF MilXT reticle in the 7-35 is also a contender.

 

[Nik H]

I am considering selling my 5-25 with Gen2XR reticle for the new GRID scope. The new NF MilXT reticle in the 7-35 is also a contender.

I really like the Gen IIXR. It is my only Christmas tree reticle. I have the MIL-C on my 7-35 and it is really nice. I was hoping that I could swap it out for the MIL XT but that is not possible.

 

[Nik H]

@Nik H

That's funny. I have a NF 7-35 on my Vudoo .22 right now.

I can't get the S&B to work with the left handed action on my Vudoo. Smashing my hand into the illumination knob.

What I see happening long term is selling the NF and TT.

Running a S&B 3-27 MSR2 on the AI, a 5-20US MSR on SR25, and order a 3-20MSR2 without illumination for the Vudoo

There is a third option...buy an Annie...no problem with running the S&B

The only scope I really would consider to replace the NF 7-35 on my AI AT is the S&B 5-45 with the GRID reticle. That won't happen for a couple of years so I have time to wait.

 

[MarcusOlsson]

I've had the GRID now for a few weeks and i absolutely love it, ran it at a match last weekend here in Sweden and ended up 3rd out of like 70 something dudes.

Here are some videos I've made while i'm using it, one from practice and one from the match.

Best reticle I've had for holdovers that's for sure ( And i work a lot with holdovers ).
And regarding the glass, I don't think I'll have to explain how good it is