i am buying an M40A3 and want to put a schmidt and bender PMII on it but are they really that much better than a leupold? Or what makes them worth 3 grand? I am not bashing them or anything i am just asking a question. I will be shooting no farther than 1000 yards.
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Rifle Scopes Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
- Thread starter STI_1911_Guy
- Start date
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
There have been numerous similar questions in the past on SH without a quantitative answer. A Leupold will work fine on that rifle at 1kyd, so why are you thinking about a better scope? I'm really turning your question around since you said that you wanted to put an S&B on it. If you describe what you don't like about the Leupold, then I can tell you whether the S&B would be a better choice. Or is it because the Premier-S&B M4851 was the mil spec scope for your rifle? Whether or not it's worth the cost is up to you.
There have been numerous similar questions in the past on SH without a quantitative answer. A Leupold will work fine on that rifle at 1kyd, so why are you thinking about a better scope? I'm really turning your question around since you said that you wanted to put an S&B on it. If you describe what you don't like about the Leupold, then I can tell you whether the S&B would be a better choice. Or is it because the Premier-S&B M4851 was the mil spec scope for your rifle? Whether or not it's worth the cost is up to you.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
A valid question no need to get smart with the guy, the only problem is only he can answer it for himself. Is it better? Yes. Is it worth 3k$? If your daily diet is spam and you save for half a month to shoot 100 rounds i'd have to say no... Other than than check them both inside out, look through them and then decide how much $$$ pain are you willing to handle...
A valid question no need to get smart with the guy, the only problem is only he can answer it for himself. Is it better? Yes. Is it worth 3k$? If your daily diet is spam and you save for half a month to shoot 100 rounds i'd have to say no... Other than than check them both inside out, look through them and then decide how much $$$ pain are you willing to handle...
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
The simple aswer is - Get the best glass you can afford. The old saying is true with scopes. "you get what you pay for"
The simple aswer is - Get the best glass you can afford. The old saying is true with scopes. "you get what you pay for"
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
In short, YES, its definantly worth the cost, if you find one used for around $2,200 or $2,300 in the used section, you will never need to upgrade again, or at least not for a long long time anyways. Also they are light years better than any Leupold.
In short, YES, its definantly worth the cost, if you find one used for around $2,200 or $2,300 in the used section, you will never need to upgrade again, or at least not for a long long time anyways. Also they are light years better than any Leupold.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
Yes. S&B is the industry standard.
If you can afford it, why not?
Yes. S&B is the industry standard.
If you can afford it, why not?
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
Just bought my first S&B PM II about two weeks ago and mounted on my 6.5 grendel. Haven't had time to put much on paper yet still working on gettin everything ready to start loading, but did enjoy watching some red ants crawling on the oranges hanging from an orange tree at about 400yds. Lovn it. It finally feels good to get into some good glass. Clarity is AWESOME! I was definately skepticle just as you are when i saw the price tag. Fortunately the gunshop owner had one that i was able to check out with my own eyes before i made the decision to purchase.
Good Luck!
Just bought my first S&B PM II about two weeks ago and mounted on my 6.5 grendel. Haven't had time to put much on paper yet still working on gettin everything ready to start loading, but did enjoy watching some red ants crawling on the oranges hanging from an orange tree at about 400yds. Lovn it. It finally feels good to get into some good glass. Clarity is AWESOME! I was definately skepticle just as you are when i saw the price tag. Fortunately the gunshop owner had one that i was able to check out with my own eyes before i made the decision to purchase.
Good Luck!
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
Their worth depends on who you ask.
Are they worth it to me? No.
Are they worth it to others? Seems like it.
Their worth depends on who you ask.
Are they worth it to me? No.
Are they worth it to others? Seems like it.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
Same difference between Leupold & S/B as a GI1911 Springfield and a tricked out STI
Leupold will definitely get the job done, S&B has some nicer features, better glass and better adjustment system.
Same difference between Leupold & S/B as a GI1911 Springfield and a tricked out STI
Leupold will definitely get the job done, S&B has some nicer features, better glass and better adjustment system.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
nope not at all, S&B's are pieces of crap. your better off with a counter-sniper.
the only glass badass enough to go up against a real sniper and win!!!
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
kudos to whoever made that/ posted it originally by the way...
nope not at all, S&B's are pieces of crap. your better off with a counter-sniper.
the only glass badass enough to go up against a real sniper and win!!!
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
kudos to whoever made that/ posted it originally by the way...
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
I think the real question is. How much do you shoot? If you shoot 100 rounds a month then no. If you shoot a lot then yes. My first year shooting long range I shot around 13000 rounds. I saw the benefit to get an upgrade but If I was to shoot around 1000 a year a would buy a 1000 to 1500 scope and be happy.
The S&Bs are the standard but one draw back is. Once you get one. It is hard to shoot another scope. You will pick all the other ones apart.
I think the real question is. How much do you shoot? If you shoot 100 rounds a month then no. If you shoot a lot then yes. My first year shooting long range I shot around 13000 rounds. I saw the benefit to get an upgrade but If I was to shoot around 1000 a year a would buy a 1000 to 1500 scope and be happy.
The S&Bs are the standard but one draw back is. Once you get one. It is hard to shoot another scope. You will pick all the other ones apart.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nope not at all, S&B's are pieces of crap. your better off with a counter-sniper.
the only glass badass enough to go up against a real sniper and win!!!
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
kudos to whoever made that/ posted it originally by the way... </div></div>
HA HA! This never gets old!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nope not at all, S&B's are pieces of crap. your better off with a counter-sniper.
the only glass badass enough to go up against a real sniper and win!!!
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
kudos to whoever made that/ posted it originally by the way... </div></div>
HA HA! This never gets old!
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The S&Bs are the standard but one draw back is. Once you get one. It is hard to shoot another scope. You will pick all the other ones apart. </div></div>
I know what you mean! I have shot S&B and PH before purchasing high end glass and it has spoiled me! Now I'm torn between budget and quality! NF just so happens to fall in budget and is still high on the quality. Ill get an SB when I build my 375 CT.
To the OP. If you have the opportunity to compare them side by side and decide on what YOU like and what your wallet allows.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: dar</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> The S&Bs are the standard but one draw back is. Once you get one. It is hard to shoot another scope. You will pick all the other ones apart. </div></div>
I know what you mean! I have shot S&B and PH before purchasing high end glass and it has spoiled me! Now I'm torn between budget and quality! NF just so happens to fall in budget and is still high on the quality. Ill get an SB when I build my 375 CT.
To the OP. If you have the opportunity to compare them side by side and decide on what YOU like and what your wallet allows.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
The S&B is better. As others have said, get the best that you can afford. If getting the S&B means that you won't be able to shoot for six months, then I'd say get the less expensive scope. Trigger time is more important than anything.
The S&B is better. As others have said, get the best that you can afford. If getting the S&B means that you won't be able to shoot for six months, then I'd say get the less expensive scope. Trigger time is more important than anything.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
I was at the range last week and a guy with a TacOps rifle mounted with an S&B let me shoot a couple rounds downrange. When i first looked through that scope all I could say was "Holy !*?!". It's like the first time watching an HDTV, the world looks better through the scope than it does in real life. The colors were so bright and everything looked so crisp. I did not want to go back to my Leupold.
If you can, I would really try to look through any scopes that you're considering purchasing. That way, you don't find out at the range one day that now you have to buy a new scope.
I was at the range last week and a guy with a TacOps rifle mounted with an S&B let me shoot a couple rounds downrange. When i first looked through that scope all I could say was "Holy !*?!". It's like the first time watching an HDTV, the world looks better through the scope than it does in real life. The colors were so bright and everything looked so crisp. I did not want to go back to my Leupold.
If you can, I would really try to look through any scopes that you're considering purchasing. That way, you don't find out at the range one day that now you have to buy a new scope.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
A high end scope like a S&B is worth every penny. Leupold doesn;t even begin to stack up against it.
A high end scope like a S&B is worth every penny. Leupold doesn;t even begin to stack up against it.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A high end scope like a S&B is worth every penny. Leupold doesn;t even begin to stack up against it. </div></div>
+1 But I would take the midddle ground and go for a Nightforce. Is an S&B better, yes but haing used both not enough to justify the additional cost over a Nightforce.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A high end scope like a S&B is worth every penny. Leupold doesn;t even begin to stack up against it. </div></div>
+1 But I would take the midddle ground and go for a Nightforce. Is an S&B better, yes but haing used both not enough to justify the additional cost over a Nightforce.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A high end scope like a S&B is worth every penny. Leupold doesn;t even begin to stack up against it. </div></div>
+1 But I would take the midddle ground and go for a Nightforce. Is an S&B better, yes but haing used both not enough to justify the additional cost over a Nightforce. </div></div>
I have noted as I get older and eyes get weaker optics like S&B do make a difference over middle ground. S&B's took my 58 year old eyes back to 30 year old eyes.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A high end scope like a S&B is worth every penny. Leupold doesn;t even begin to stack up against it. </div></div>
+1 But I would take the midddle ground and go for a Nightforce. Is an S&B better, yes but haing used both not enough to justify the additional cost over a Nightforce. </div></div>
I have noted as I get older and eyes get weaker optics like S&B do make a difference over middle ground. S&B's took my 58 year old eyes back to 30 year old eyes.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
I have 4 S&B PM II 5-25x56 P4f scopes and they're worth every penny. That being said I have 4 builds being done right now; 2 Tac Ops and 2 SAC and do not have the money to buy S&Bs for these builds. So, for X mass I got a IOR 3.5-18x50mm FF MP8 and I will be putting this scope on my Tac Ops .260. I plan on getting at least two more to put on top of the SAC rifles too. For me it offers what I am looking for in a more affordable package. However, if I had the funds or didn't have so many builds in the works I would go S&B.
Jamie
I have 4 S&B PM II 5-25x56 P4f scopes and they're worth every penny. That being said I have 4 builds being done right now; 2 Tac Ops and 2 SAC and do not have the money to buy S&Bs for these builds. So, for X mass I got a IOR 3.5-18x50mm FF MP8 and I will be putting this scope on my Tac Ops .260. I plan on getting at least two more to put on top of the SAC rifles too. For me it offers what I am looking for in a more affordable package. However, if I had the funds or didn't have so many builds in the works I would go S&B.
Jamie
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A high end scope like a S&B is worth every penny. Leupold doesn;t even begin to stack up against it. </div></div>
+1 But I would take the midddle ground and go for a Nightforce. Is an S&B better, yes but haing used both not enough to justify the additional cost over a Nightforce. </div></div>
That's all a matter of opinion, while I am one that will tell you NF's are the best bang for the buck out these and strait up the toughest scope you can get, there is no ignoring advantages to the S&B. First off all the PMII's except maybe one variant of the 12-50 is FFP which is a key feature, everything about the scope is just super high quality and feels very refined, and the only scope you'll find that MIGHT have better glass than a S&B would be a hensoldt.
I've owned pretty much every NF scope out there with the exception of the 1-4, and also had a NF F1 most recently (which I feel is the best FFP for the $$ out there) but I just replaced it with a S&B 5-25 and wouldn't want it any other way. That said I'm ordering a NF F1 high speed with the new MLR2 from Euro Optic for my next rifle, I really want to try out the new knobs and see if they see any different with the closer clicks aswell as the new MLR2 reticle. The regular MLR wasn't bad but it was often very hard to tell the 1/2 mil lines for 1 mil lines to the point that I wish I had just gotten the standard mildot.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Santo</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: redneckbmxer24</div><div class="ubbcode-body">A high end scope like a S&B is worth every penny. Leupold doesn;t even begin to stack up against it. </div></div>
+1 But I would take the midddle ground and go for a Nightforce. Is an S&B better, yes but haing used both not enough to justify the additional cost over a Nightforce. </div></div>
That's all a matter of opinion, while I am one that will tell you NF's are the best bang for the buck out these and strait up the toughest scope you can get, there is no ignoring advantages to the S&B. First off all the PMII's except maybe one variant of the 12-50 is FFP which is a key feature, everything about the scope is just super high quality and feels very refined, and the only scope you'll find that MIGHT have better glass than a S&B would be a hensoldt.
I've owned pretty much every NF scope out there with the exception of the 1-4, and also had a NF F1 most recently (which I feel is the best FFP for the $$ out there) but I just replaced it with a S&B 5-25 and wouldn't want it any other way. That said I'm ordering a NF F1 high speed with the new MLR2 from Euro Optic for my next rifle, I really want to try out the new knobs and see if they see any different with the closer clicks aswell as the new MLR2 reticle. The regular MLR wasn't bad but it was often very hard to tell the 1/2 mil lines for 1 mil lines to the point that I wish I had just gotten the standard mildot.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
Having owned several Leupolds and a few S&B's, I'd happily pay extra for the S&B's...especially for the higher magnification units. EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING is better on a S&B. Now if it's going to take you 10 years to save up for a S&B, that might be a problem. In that case, I'd rather buy a Vortex PST over a Leupold.
Having owned several Leupolds and a few S&B's, I'd happily pay extra for the S&B's...especially for the higher magnification units. EVERYTHING, and I mean EVERYTHING is better on a S&B. Now if it's going to take you 10 years to save up for a S&B, that might be a problem. In that case, I'd rather buy a Vortex PST over a Leupold.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
I just died after watching that video. Thats freaking hilarious
I just died after watching that video. Thats freaking hilarious
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
I want to ask a related question. Sorry if I appear hijacking the thread
Is S&B glass better than Swarovski? I have two Swarovski ZFM 6x42 I acquired long while ago, and have taken them for granted. Recently acquired a Zeiss Conquest, and I realized what it means "you get what you pay." Swarovski glass is many fold superior to Conquest, especially under low light (dim windows in the dark). I bet I can make make better shots with 6-power Swarovski than 15-power Conquest at night
Can people comment the glass difference between S&B and Swarovski? I don't have access to an S&B scope so no first hand experience. I know Swarovski does not make true tactical scope nowadays, but it did come out with BR series reticle which are ballistic (Mil-based). The cost is in par with NF
I want to ask a related question. Sorry if I appear hijacking the thread
Is S&B glass better than Swarovski? I have two Swarovski ZFM 6x42 I acquired long while ago, and have taken them for granted. Recently acquired a Zeiss Conquest, and I realized what it means "you get what you pay." Swarovski glass is many fold superior to Conquest, especially under low light (dim windows in the dark). I bet I can make make better shots with 6-power Swarovski than 15-power Conquest at night
Can people comment the glass difference between S&B and Swarovski? I don't have access to an S&B scope so no first hand experience. I know Swarovski does not make true tactical scope nowadays, but it did come out with BR series reticle which are ballistic (Mil-based). The cost is in par with NF
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
If you are buying a spec M40A3, then the correct Schmidt would be the way to go.
If you are looking for a good scope, they are that, but here is also a smorgasboard of great options in that range.
Define the job, then pic the tool.....
If you are buying a spec M40A3, then the correct Schmidt would be the way to go.
If you are looking for a good scope, they are that, but here is also a smorgasboard of great options in that range.
Define the job, then pic the tool.....
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
S&B is the choice of Pro's!! You wont be disappointed and you will never regret your purchasse. It seems like alot now but the reliability and quality is second to none!
S&B is the choice of Pro's!! You wont be disappointed and you will never regret your purchasse. It seems like alot now but the reliability and quality is second to none!
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
I had a hard time with my decision as well but I am definitely glad I took the plunge. I love my S&B the only problem now is that I want more. The main thing I like about them is they definitely hold their value so if I ever needed to let it go I can get a good 80-85% if not more of what I paid for it back. Good luck with your decision.
I had a hard time with my decision as well but I am definitely glad I took the plunge. I love my S&B the only problem now is that I want more. The main thing I like about them is they definitely hold their value so if I ever needed to let it go I can get a good 80-85% if not more of what I paid for it back. Good luck with your decision.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nope not at all, S&B's are pieces of crap. your better off with a counter-sniper.
the only glass badass enough to go up against a real sniper and win!!!
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
kudos to whoever made that/ posted it originally by the way... </div></div>
Never Gets Old!!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: aggiesig</div><div class="ubbcode-body">nope not at all, S&B's are pieces of crap. your better off with a counter-sniper.
the only glass badass enough to go up against a real sniper and win!!!
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zNo7yLPHbE0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>
kudos to whoever made that/ posted it originally by the way... </div></div>
Never Gets Old!!
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
Mule hunter has a point. If you get a chance to look through some old optics, 20+ years old, the one that is still super clear etc. will be the SB! My best friend put one on a 458 over 20 years ago, and many African trips with that rig (pre 64 mod 70) the scope is still like a Rolex watch-perfect. No doubt they are making a good $ on each sale, but there are only a couple of other makers on the same shelf-they aint cheap either.
Mule hunter has a point. If you get a chance to look through some old optics, 20+ years old, the one that is still super clear etc. will be the SB! My best friend put one on a 458 over 20 years ago, and many African trips with that rig (pre 64 mod 70) the scope is still like a Rolex watch-perfect. No doubt they are making a good $ on each sale, but there are only a couple of other makers on the same shelf-they aint cheap either.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
Yes definately worth the cost! Its on my .338LM system that I am shooting to distances of 1500m / 1640 yds. Hands down, the best glass I have used to date. SB PMII 5x25x56, P4 Fine Reticle
Yes definately worth the cost! Its on my .338LM system that I am shooting to distances of 1500m / 1640 yds. Hands down, the best glass I have used to date. SB PMII 5x25x56, P4 Fine Reticle
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MuleHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Porche 911, is it worth the cost?
</div></div>
It's porSche, depending on model they are worth the cost.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MuleHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Porche 911, is it worth the cost?
It's porSche, depending on model they are worth the cost.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MuleHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Porche 911, is it worth the cost?
</div></div>
No, but the S&B is.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MuleHunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Porche 911, is it worth the cost?
No, but the S&B is.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
My suggestion is to take the scopes you are looking at to buy out and shoot them side by side at what ever range you pick. If you can hit just as well with the cheaper one then buy it. If you like optics and you want to "enjoy watching some red ants crawling on the oranges hanging from an orange tree at about 400yds", then buy the one with the better optics. Hmmm..I've never though about ants or anything else other than what I was shooting.
My suggestion is to take the scopes you are looking at to buy out and shoot them side by side at what ever range you pick. If you can hit just as well with the cheaper one then buy it. If you like optics and you want to "enjoy watching some red ants crawling on the oranges hanging from an orange tree at about 400yds", then buy the one with the better optics. Hmmm..I've never though about ants or anything else other than what I was shooting.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
Worth is a relative term.
Appearantly they are worth it, or they would not sell them.
Are you comfortable spending that kind of money for that oevel of performance? And, yes the level is higher than others in lower price ranges.
I have found that scopes are generally priced accurately as it pertains to performance, with rare exceptions (but those are all lower end).
When you get to the Nightforce, S&B, PH, etc, you get what you pay for.
Worth is a relative term.
Appearantly they are worth it, or they would not sell them.
Are you comfortable spending that kind of money for that oevel of performance? And, yes the level is higher than others in lower price ranges.
I have found that scopes are generally priced accurately as it pertains to performance, with rare exceptions (but those are all lower end).
When you get to the Nightforce, S&B, PH, etc, you get what you pay for.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
I don't own a Porsche. Thats the nice thing about being into competitive shooting, you don't have to sell a kidney or work two jobs to have nice gear. I remember spending $5,000 on a super charger alone for my car. Im glad im not into racing anymore. I gave up golf and cars and all kinds of other hobbies to focus on shooting/hunting. So to me a top tier scope is definately worth it.
Porsche still sells 911's even though you could post the same track times with a modified EVO for about $80,000 less. The car isn't going to make a better driver but i would still rather have the 911 IF i could afford it! If YOU can afford it then why not?
I don't own a Porsche. Thats the nice thing about being into competitive shooting, you don't have to sell a kidney or work two jobs to have nice gear. I remember spending $5,000 on a super charger alone for my car. Im glad im not into racing anymore. I gave up golf and cars and all kinds of other hobbies to focus on shooting/hunting. So to me a top tier scope is definately worth it.
Porsche still sells 911's even though you could post the same track times with a modified EVO for about $80,000 less. The car isn't going to make a better driver but i would still rather have the 911 IF i could afford it! If YOU can afford it then why not?
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
My personal take on this as a gear whore and relatively new to all this-
I spent about $6k on ammo this year. I have some expendable cash. I have owned more than I should, and what I have found is this- what you will spend in ammo over the years if you get serious at this will more than eclipse the cost of your gear. You are better off to have the best you can afford, because at the end of the day, you are better off not worrying about your gear being the cause of your miss- IE- tracking issues, canted reticle, etc.
Furthermore, I justify it to myself like this- if you shop around and buy the Bender at the right price, you can sell it if you get hard up later on at about a $300 loss. Same thing with the Leupold, so other than having more money tied up in the Bender, your cost of ownership is the same.
My personal take on this as a gear whore and relatively new to all this-
I spent about $6k on ammo this year. I have some expendable cash. I have owned more than I should, and what I have found is this- what you will spend in ammo over the years if you get serious at this will more than eclipse the cost of your gear. You are better off to have the best you can afford, because at the end of the day, you are better off not worrying about your gear being the cause of your miss- IE- tracking issues, canted reticle, etc.
Furthermore, I justify it to myself like this- if you shop around and buy the Bender at the right price, you can sell it if you get hard up later on at about a $300 loss. Same thing with the Leupold, so other than having more money tied up in the Bender, your cost of ownership is the same.
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
From Lowlight
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So what do you tell the guy who traveled 1200 miles to take a class.. he paid $1500 for the class, plus rental car, hotels, meals, and by the first day it fails... now he goes from what he thought was a solid optics with a stellar reputation to being the guy holding up the class while we run up, get a new scope for him, usually I am pulling one of my NF off to switch it for him. If you want to play the one up and working, the NF I use is heavily used, my S&Bs too, and guess what, of all of them, with more combined rounds than I can count, and only one scope has ever gone back for repair. They well worn and definitely show signs of use.
yes, other brands fail, but not nearly with the frequency as we are seeing with Leupold. it's every week in some cases, and even in the military classes we have Nightforce on the unit rifles next to Leupold... but I don't see the NF failing nearly as much, it's stark the reality of it, especially when you see more than 1 or 2 a week.
It's easily 20 to 1 when you compare the Nightforces on the line with the military units, this last class had 4 Leupolds on the line, 1 failed the first day, the remainders where USO, NF, and S&B... Do we see others fail, sure but not nearly as much.
If you want to start a generic scope failure thread go ahead, but don't be surprised by the results. Facts are what the facts are, in a class of 15 Leupolds on the line I expect and account for anywhere from 2 to 5 scopes to go down, I don't figure that with the same number of NF on the line. Its closer to 1 per every six months of classes, not 1 for every six people.
</div></div>
dave
From Lowlight
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> So what do you tell the guy who traveled 1200 miles to take a class.. he paid $1500 for the class, plus rental car, hotels, meals, and by the first day it fails... now he goes from what he thought was a solid optics with a stellar reputation to being the guy holding up the class while we run up, get a new scope for him, usually I am pulling one of my NF off to switch it for him. If you want to play the one up and working, the NF I use is heavily used, my S&Bs too, and guess what, of all of them, with more combined rounds than I can count, and only one scope has ever gone back for repair. They well worn and definitely show signs of use.
yes, other brands fail, but not nearly with the frequency as we are seeing with Leupold. it's every week in some cases, and even in the military classes we have Nightforce on the unit rifles next to Leupold... but I don't see the NF failing nearly as much, it's stark the reality of it, especially when you see more than 1 or 2 a week.
It's easily 20 to 1 when you compare the Nightforces on the line with the military units, this last class had 4 Leupolds on the line, 1 failed the first day, the remainders where USO, NF, and S&B... Do we see others fail, sure but not nearly as much.
If you want to start a generic scope failure thread go ahead, but don't be surprised by the results. Facts are what the facts are, in a class of 15 Leupolds on the line I expect and account for anywhere from 2 to 5 scopes to go down, I don't figure that with the same number of NF on the line. Its closer to 1 per every six months of classes, not 1 for every six people.
</div></div>
dave
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
I have my Nightforce in the shop getting HS turrets and Zstop installed, after using it for one match. Like every other gear junkie, I am already looking at something better, S&B, or Premier, but after reading Lowlights qoute it looks like I should look to spend my money in other directions, because I really have no complaints with the scope, just looking for the most "bad ass glass".
I really value Lowlights opinion, but what really got my attention was that dave7mm was compelled to qoute it, and that guy has been here forever and his post count is at 80, LOL, so to me that speaks Volumes.
SScott
I have my Nightforce in the shop getting HS turrets and Zstop installed, after using it for one match. Like every other gear junkie, I am already looking at something better, S&B, or Premier, but after reading Lowlights qoute it looks like I should look to spend my money in other directions, because I really have no complaints with the scope, just looking for the most "bad ass glass".
I really value Lowlights opinion, but what really got my attention was that dave7mm was compelled to qoute it, and that guy has been here forever and his post count is at 80, LOL, so to me that speaks Volumes.
SScott
Re: Schmidt and bender worth the cost?
Big fan of the S&B scopes. Rarely do you hear of one going down (although it has happened) and all of mine have been dead nutz reliable. The glass is also second to none.
Yes, they cost more but you definitely get what you pay for.
Big fan of the S&B scopes. Rarely do you hear of one going down (although it has happened) and all of mine have been dead nutz reliable. The glass is also second to none.
Yes, they cost more but you definitely get what you pay for.
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