Rifle Scopes Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

[Meatsweats]

Need advice, opinions to help me decide which to put on my Accuracy International AW .338 Lapua Mag. My choices are:
Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 Illuminated Reticle and
Schmidt Bender 12.5-50x56
The illuminated reticle is not a priority and not a factor in my decision, its only a small % more on the 5-25x so why not?
I plan on using this rig hunting and long range target shooting/ maybe competitons...(if I get good enough with it).
I would like to hear pro's and con's from people experienced with these magnification ranges and caliber (.338 Lapua)
So far I've heard that the minimum 12.5x can be a pain to get used to at first but very nice once you get used to it.
I do not consider myself an expert but when would I use 5x on the 5-25 with a .338?
How beneficial is less than 12.5x in tactical competitions? How/Why?

Thanks up front to anyone that can give experianced input

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

5-25=FFP

12.5-50=SFP

For tactical comps, the decision is easy. If you do not understand what this means I suggest a little research before you continue...

 

[hexades1]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

12.5-50X SFP is a scope meant mostly for Bench Rest and airgun Field Target competition.

Bigger is not always better. Militaries use 3-12X magnification for their field use in the majority of cases.

On actual long range shooting over 1000 meters mirage is always present. 50X magnification can very rarely used if at all.

Buy what you want but for tactical comps 12.5-50X SFP is a bad choice. For Bench Rest and short distances it should work well.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Like I said over at SC, get the 5-25.It's all the scope you will need with that rifle or at sniper comps.

 

[ds]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

The 12-50x56 PMII is available either FFP or 2FP.

Two considerations may be the fairly short eye relief (70mm) and the turrets and reticle not being in the same units. The P4F reticule is milrad based, the turrets are either 1/4 moa or 1/8 moa. A 0.25cm turret is also offered - but very, very small clicks and has less elevation.

That said, decide what you want to do with it ( if you like more F Class type shooting 12-50x56 is the way to go, more tactical shooting 5-25x56). I like magnification so would choose the higher magnification (having had six 5-25x56 PMII scopes).

Elevation the 12-50x56 has about 65moa compared to ab 95moa with the 5-25x56. You can use reticle hold overs also, so not much issue.

BTW with the 12-50x56 you wont need a spotting scope either.

 

[19Scout77]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Hey DS- Would you happen to have a link or some other info regarding the 12-50x56 FFP? Thanks.

 

[jp_colt]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

5-25x56. I have AIAW .308 shoot mainly at 500 meters some time go out to 1000yd
90% of the time set between 12 and 15 power. Higher mag. more movement of reticle if moving around and setting up for shot in competition( will have same problem in hunting unless plan on just setting up and waiting for game).

 

[M4guru]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

I would want the option of the lower magnification rather than higher in this situation. From your purposes it sounds like you'd be better suited with the 5-25X. I guarantee you will miss the 5X more than the 50X on a .338 for field and tactical shooting.

 

[ds]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

19Scout 77

Data sheet

12-50x56 PMII P
• Aluminium tube, Ø34 mm without rail
• Surface: decorative hard anodised (black)
• Reticle in 1. and 2. focal plane
• Elevation (Double Turn, Multi Turn)
• Windage adjustment
• Parallax adjustment from 10 m to ∞

3. Optical data
Magnification: 12x – 50x
Field of view 100 m: 4.20 m – 1.10 m

Exit pupil: 4.55 mm – 1.18 mm
Eye relief distance: 70 mm
Twilight factor: 25.9 – 52.9
Light transmission: min. 90% at day- and night-measuring

4. Technical data
Diopter setting: +2 dptr. bis -3 dptr.
Elevation adjustment: DT ¼ MOA ccw 0-65 MOA
DT ¼ MOA cw 0-65 MOA
MT 1/8 MOA ccw 0-75 MOA
MT 1/8 MOA cw 0-75 MOA
MT ¼ cm cw 0-175 cm
Windage adjustment: ST ¼ MOA ccw +/- 16 MOA
ST ¼ MOA cw +/- 16 MOA
ST ¼ cm cw +/- 16 cm
DT 1/8 MOA ccw +/- 14 MOA
DT 1/8 MOA cw +/- 14 MOA
Parallax adjustment: 10 m to ∞
Weight: 1080 g
Water proofness: 300 mbar inner pressure (equals 3 m water depth)
Storage and operational temperatures
Storage temp. (cold): -40°C
Storage temp. (warm): +70°C
Operational temp. (cold): -25°C
Operational temp. (warm): +55°C at 92% relative air humidity

5. Reticles
Focal plane 1: P3, P4F
Focal plane 2: P3, P4F, Sport, SportF
DT = Double Turn – ST = Single Turn – MT = Multi Turn – cw = clockwise - ccw = counter clockwise

 

[pc3]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

MT ¼ cm cw 0-175 cm

So it does come in a cm version.........which would match reticle ?

 

[ds]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Thats it 1/4 cm , very fine. So 4 clicks would equal 1cm ( 0.1 milrad - I know it is not the same thing, but.........without the semantics it will work as far as reticule and turrett speaking the same language - or stick 0.025 milrad stickers on the turretts).

 

[RemingtonSPS]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

WHICH Schmidt and Bender to get? What a nice problem to have!

Go with the 5-25x it is more than you will ever need.

 

[Brown Dog]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Wonder if I could resurrect this thread with a question to people now using 12.5-50x56 schmidts:

How are users finding the min 12.5 mag for competition use?

How often are users dialling over x25 to shoot? to spot?

Is 0.025mRad too fine? (ie are there just too many clicks to keep winding on and off versus a 0.1mRad scope?)

Just wondering whether to get one, so any user answers much appreciated -Thanks

 

[wooferocau]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brown Dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wonder if I could resurrect this thread with a question to people now using 12.5-50x56 schmidts:

How are users finding the min 12.5 mag for competition use?

How often are users dialling over x25 to shoot? to spot?

Is 0.025mRad too fine? (ie are there just too many clicks to keep winding on and off versus a 0.1mRad scope?)

Just wondering whether to get one, so any user answers much appreciated -Thanks </div></div>

I have the 12-5-x56 on my AWSM 338,
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1867687#Post1867687

Anyone who says 50x cant be used has obviously not looked through one. I have shot on overcast days and bright sunny days and have not shot at 1000yds + on anything under 50x.
A shooting freind of mind had the same mentality...."cant use 50x"....after using mine , he now has the same scope on order.

I am using a 18moa AI base , the .25cm adjustments are very good for shifting point of impact at long distance.

 

[Brown Dog]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Thanks for thoughts !

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RJ Hunter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The second focal plane would also seem a deal breaker for such a high end optic. </div></div> -they're available FFP.

 

[psinclair]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: TA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">12.5-50X SFP is a scope meant mostly for Bench Rest and airgun Field Target competition.

Bigger is not always better. Militaries use 3-12X magnification for their field use in the majority of cases.

On actual long range shooting over 1000 meters mirage is always present. 50X magnification can very rarely used if at all.

Buy what you want but for tactical comps 12.5-50X SFP is a bad choice. For Bench Rest and short distances it should work well. </div></div>

+1....I run a 5-25 S&B on my .338LM. IMO its all the scope you'll ever need.

 

[Papagrizzly]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Lots of answers here based only on tactical use and what the military uses.

I shoot 1000 yard F-Class with a March scope (10 - 60x). Most of the time I have it set at around 50 to 52x only because the image starts to get a little darker beyond that. Dealing with mirage is a matter of practice. A lot of people freak out when they see huge waves or the target "dancing". Sometimes the target gets blurry due to heavy mirage, but I'd rather shoot at a large blurry target than a small blurry target. The only time I turn my scope down is when I am setting up and need to get positioned and in line with my target.

Then - on overcast calm days, you clean up. The magnification really helps you see well and hold/adjust as needed. Of course, this relates more to competition shooting where the target gets pulled down and marked after each shot.

 

[Bugaboo]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Higher magnification increases the error in paralax setting. I have the PM II 5-25 and it is axcellent, mostly shooting on 10x.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

RJ let them buy the 12.5-50s. No need to get worked up over it. Some people feel they need the extra magnification. I'll stick with my 5-25s with P4F reticles for tactical comps and any other shooting. At matches I've shot at 5" dots at 1000 yards and only had it on 15x. Not sure why they need all that power but to each his own. Atleast they are S&Bs so you know they will be top notch no matter which you buy

 

[Deisel]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

I have been using S&B 5-25 with P4F reticle on AI AWSM in .338 Lapua for a year or so. Plenty of optic for the rifle. I use the higher range for spotting. I rarely shoot using more that 15x.

 

[Brown Dog]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

I find the answers on top magnification useage quite bizarre, it sounds as though most of you have wasted your money - and should have bought 4-16s (and some of you should have got 3-12s!)

.

Also don't understand the mirage answers; they make the same sense as saying magnification increases wobble

.

I use a 5-25 regularly; it's rarely below x25. You'll also notice that dialling it lower than (from memory) x7 is pointless as the FOV doesn't actually get any bigger. So it's really a 7-25 in terms of useful magnification range.

The real questions when thinking about the 12.5-50x56 are:

1. How often do you take your scopes below x12 (or, more accurately, how often do you use it between x7 and x12)?
2. How often do you wish you could go over x25? (aim small; miss small!)



Even when shooting competitively at the occasional 20m target I don't think I go below x12.

If you're dialling below that to snap shoot fast close stuff:
1. Occluded eye aiming works and
2. I think there'd be a pretty strong argument to say you're holding the wrong weapon!

 

[Rob01]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brown Dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I find the answers on top magnification useage quite bizarre, it sounds as though most of you have wasted your money - and should have bought 4-16s (and some of you should have got 3-12s!)

.

</div></div>

No because then I wouldn't have the higher power for spotting or when I wanted it. That's the joy of a variable scope. That and they run about the same price anyways so no waste. I have owned 2 4-16s and a 3-12 S&B but love the 5-25s. About the perfect tactical scope in my opinion.

You should come and try shooting a match in south TX or AZ and watch that mirage boil. I have shot matches where you couldn't dial above 12x and see the targets. Mirage is something to think about.



<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The real questions when thinking about the 12.5-50x56 are:

1. How often do you take your scopes below x12 (or, more accurately, how often do you use it between x7 and x12)?
2. How often do you wish you could go over x25? (aim small; miss small!)</div></div>

1. Quite often when shooting moving targets, shooting from improvised positions like barricades or other run and guns where higher power makes the FOV finding targets tougher and makes holding on target tougher due to rifle movement and an increased heart rate. The lower power helps make hits. Also targets in as close as 11 feet at tactical comps which you have to use the rifle you have. No option about switching out like you alluded to below with the wrong weapon comment. Have you ever shot a large sniper match? If you do you will see where the use of anything over 25x isn't really very useful or needed and power below 12x is definitely needed.

2. Never have wished for more than 25x. Never needed it. I've shot to 2000 yards on an MOA sized target with a 408 Chey Tac and only dialed up to 17-20x. Could see and quarter the target without a problem.


The 12.5-50s have their place and as mentioned they are an S&B so they are of course excellent but in my opinion for a tactical rifle scope it's too much scope. Laying on a firing line for F Class, 1000 yard shooting etc it might be the cat's ass to have the higher power but in shooting in tactical matches it's not needed or even desired and is actually a negative.

Look at the scopes the top competitors use at sniper matches. If there was an edge in use 50x scopes then it would definitely be used on many rifles. Shooting this sport is all about getting the edge. That's why people have gone from the .308 to faster flatter cartridges that are better in the wind like the .243, 6.5 Creedmoor and .260. If the competitors saw that they could make more points with a 12.5-50x scope then you could bet your bottom dollar that they would be on all the rifles but they aren't. That should tell you something.

Now as mentioned if you are shooting a more fixed firing point game like 1000 yard BR or F Class then you can use the extra power as if you look at the top shooters in those sports they are using higher powered optics. What the top shooters in sports use are clues to as what works well in those sports.

I'm not posting this to argue but just to try and explain why you are getting some of the responses you are in this thread.

 

[Brown Dog]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Rob,

Great answer, thanks.

With the 12.5-50 still comparatively new, it'll be interesting to re-visit this comment in a year or 2:<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rob01</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
If the competitors saw that they could make more points with a 12.5-50x scope then you could bet your bottom dollar that they would be on all the rifles but they aren't. </div></div>

Until about 15 years ago, Brit snipers were using 6x42s, then UK Forces had a seismic shift to 3-12 -which was far too much magnification according to those stuck on 6x42. Now UK is on 5-25s. It'd be really interesting to hear what the 6x42 zealots think about that now!

Thinking changes. As I said, with the 12.5-50 still comparatively new, it'd be interesting to re-visit this in a year or 2

I'm still toying with the idea of giving a 12.5-50 a go. I admit I'd probably be happier if it was a 10-40. But I'll only go that way if it can be had with click values less fine than 0.025mRad.

 

[Dagsta]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

BrownDog, you seem to be stuck on the higher magnifications for sure. And if that is what works for you by all means do it.

Rob went thru great lengths to explain the advantages and disadvantages especially regarding tactical shooting and matches.

I will tell you this if your purpose is to shoot tactical comps you will most likely regret the purchase of a 12.5-50.

Good luck to you!!

 

[Rob01]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Brown Dog, on the click values, I wouldn't want anything that fine either. .1 mil click adjustments works well and doesn't require alot of knob turning to get to distance. At 1000 yards a .1 mil adjustment moves the impact 3.6" which is plenty fine enough in 99% of the shots. Having 1/4 of that value would mean 40 clicks between mil marks. Again that might be wanted in another shooting sport but not in the tactical side. Same as to why people don't use the 1/8 MOA adjustable scopes that 1000 yard BR guys use and use 1/4 or 1/2 MOA.

As to what a year or two will bring, well only time will tell but having shot tactical matches for the past 7 years I don't really see people going the way of the 12.5-50.

 

[Brown Dog]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Dagsta,

Rob's answer was great; but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it

The competitions you fellows seem to be describing sound more appropriate to semi-auto sharpshooter rifle stuff - my idea of scoped bolt gun use doesn't include tgts at 11ft!

Thinking longer range, I suspect that thinking in this area will change; the higher power schmidts are still new on the scene - they haven't had time to sink or swim in competition yet.
Although, perhaps worthy of note that the fellow who took second place at the last international sniper comp hosted in Hungary was using a 12.5-50.

My mind is still open; but I think you fellows maybe giving views based on optimising your bolt guns for what I would consider semi-auto sharpshooter scenarios.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brown Dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body">my idea of scoped bolt gun use doesn't include tgts at 11ft!

</div></div>

Actually that stage of fire was made based on an actual police sniper's shot so it does happen.

Semi autos are coming more into the scene now but the bolt guns are still winning.

You should go look at some videos from Lowlight on Youtube of the Snipers Hide Cup and it will give you an idea as to what the matches consist of.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Actually here are a couple
<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9Qf9DVC-mg8"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9Qf9DVC-mg8" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

<object width="425" height="350"> <param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/bHU7OkPeAWs"></param> <param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param> <embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/bHU7OkPeAWs" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="350"> </embed></object>

About 2 min into the second video you will see a handsome guy with a black shirt and tan hat shooting off a concrete tube using a S&B 5-25

 

[Brown Dog]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

Thanks Rob. Looks excellent.

(Also looks like a COF best-suited to a rifle like this http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/support-weapons/18827.aspx -which, I suppose, is exactly why it's been bought! (sorry, couldn't help myself!

) )

Point absolutely taken on minimum magnification for fast and furious stuff like that.

 

[Rob01]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

If the accuracy is there in that rifle then it would work. Accuracy is key.

Glad to help.

 

[ToddM]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

I think it really depends on what you are using the rifle for and what distances.

Personally I can't see owning a .338 to shoot under 600-1000 yards, with its expensive, heavy, and high recoil why bother when there are so many cheaper, lighter weight and recoil options esp. for use under 1000 yards. So if the shortest distance I'm planning on using it is 600 yards then 12x is fine and having the option to go way up would be interesting. Here in NV mirage would probably be annoying at super high powers, but a lot of people shoot high power scopes and get used to the mirage. After all it doesn't actually increase the mirage it just looks like it does cause you can see more detail.

If you are shooting tactical comps with potential short range targets and moving targets than the 5-25 of course. However, the .338 isn't ideal for those anyway. If you are going to use it hunting, then you never know when a close shot will come up and 12x is too much. I'm biased though, if you want to shoot animals at 1000 yards you don't need to learn to shoot better you need to learn to hunt.

To recap if you see yourself shooting it under 600 yards I'd want the 5-25, if you know it's going to be 600+ yards only you could make a case for the 12-50 but that's going to rule out competitions and hunting the 5-25 is a much more flexible option.

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

brown dog

I can say after shooting just one season of long range matches 200yds-1250yds i can honestly tell you will change your mind about the high magnification and small adjustment increments. i just switched to the 5-25 s&b after running a 3.2x17 most of the season. i still find myself on 15ish power most of the time for prone shots and 8-12x for anything standing,kneeling sitting.

Nevermind the fact that rob is one of the top shooters in the nation and you are just ignoring him. let me know how that works out for you.

 

[Papagrizzly]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

I think one of the things to consider is that there were not many choices of higher magnification power scopes out there for the longest time. Then came NF with their 12-42X and they sold a ton of them to a variety of shooters.

One of our US F-Class Open team members worked with S & B to bring on the new 12-50x scopes to the US market and adapt it for long range high power shooting. It was only available as an air rifle scope previously. After a slow and arduous process, the new S & B 12 to 50s came on the scene. March scopes is also a relatively new line of scopes started off as part of the benchrest scene and is now spreading to other disciplines.

The point being that with more of the higher magnification scopes being available, and bought, more people will have experience with them and you will have more real world reviews in all types of uses.

RJ Hunter - I know this forum is called "Sniper's Hide......", but the fact remains that we are all interested in long range shooting as part of our various disciplines. Also, there are a lot of real world snipers, military shooters and tactical marksmen that come out and shoot with us in F-Class matches, and we love it!

 

[Brown Dog]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Nevermind the fact that rob is one of the top shooters in the nation and you are just ignoring him. </div></div>

Fick mein alte stiefel. You're the second fellow to say something like that. I'm not ignoring him; <span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">it's a discussion. </span> </span> -and you are allowed to have an alternate viewpoint in a discussion.

Or are you suggesting I should run my life along the line's of "Rob, tell me what I think about this?".

Please re-read my posts. I'm wildly familiar and experienced with S&Bs.
In particular, I'm wildly familiar with the 5-25x56.
I'm not asking about the 5-25 or how to set it.
I use 5-25s.
I own a 5-25.

I understand Rob's requirement and reasoning. My requirement is not quite like Rob's.

If you read some of the other posts; some people like more magnification. It's not a simple 'Rob says" deal. (or "anyone else says" for that matter (Rob sorry to keep using your name))

<span style="font-weight: bold">It's a discussion.</span>

 

[Brown Dog]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Papagrizzly</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
The point being that with more of the higher magnification scopes being available, and bought, more people will have experience with them and you will have more real world reviews in all types of uses. </div></div>

My point exactly. The fact that they're not currently being widely used may have more to do with the fact that until recently scopes of this type simply didn't exist:

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brown Dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Thinking longer range, I suspect that thinking in this area will change; the higher power schmidts are still new on the scene - they haven't had time to sink or swim in competition yet.
Although, perhaps worthy of note that the fellow who took second place at the last international sniper comp hosted in Hungary was using a 12.5-50.
</div></div>

 

[TEAMSENDIT]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Brown Dog</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: diggler44</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Nevermind the fact that rob is one of the top shooters in the nation and you are just ignoring him. </div></div>

Fick mein alte stiefel. You're the second fellow to say something like that. I'm not ignoring him; it's a discussion.

Or are you suggesting I should run my life along the line's of "Rob, tell me what I think about this?". I've never met Rob. Rob's never met me.

Please re-read my posts. I'm wildly familiar and experienced with S&Bs.
In particular, I'm wildly familiar with the 5-25x56.
I'm not asking about the 5-25 or how to set it.
I use 5-25s.
I own a 5-25.

I understand Rob's requirement and reasoning. My requirement is not quite like Rob's.

If you read some of the other posts; some people like more magnification. It's not a simple 'Rob says" deal. (or "anyone else says" for that matter (Rob sorry to keep using your name))

<span style="font-weight: bold">It's a discussion.</span>
</div></div>

<span style="font-weight: bold">consider this my apology for not reading carefully enough, if it is soley for the 338 at long ranges and their aren't huge time constraints then go for the 12.5x50</span>. if it weren't for the 40 clicks per mil then i would say it would work fine even for comps. you are also right in the idea that most of us would be fine with the 3-12 and 4-16x for competition rifles, in fact if they made a double turn mil/mil 4-16x thats what i would have bought. typical optics are crap at anything over 30x but this isn't a typical scope and it has bad ass glass that is useable at any power. It should be helpful at ELR in ideal conditions, because it should be easier to spot your shots. shit it is virtually a spotting scope with that kind of magniication.

does the 12.5x50 have the same tunneling effect the 5x25 does between 5-7x? if so at what range?

 

[amrlotus]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

F4l is the reticle size ok at max magnification in the 5-25x56 FFP ?

 

[amrlotus]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

is it FFP or SFP?

 

[Nostradumbass]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

While shooting @ 1K, a few days ago, the mirage was so intense; I had to back down to 8 power and was surprised how easy it was to make accurate hits at low magnification.
That was with a S&B 5-25 on a 338 Lapua.....it took me a long time to realize higher magnification is really not essential.
Phillip

 

[Aries64]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5-25=FFP

12.5-50=SFP...</div></div>
As written, the above is incomplete and therefore incorrect. The PMII 5-25X is available in both FFP and SFP, although the newer reticles are not available in SFP - at least yet. The reticle choices are the same regardless of whether the PMII 5-25X is a PMII LP, PMII LP / MTC, or PMII LP / MTC / LT model.

The PMII 12.5-50X is also available is both FFP and SFP, but more reticles are available in the SFP version. Below are S & B's published PMII 5-25X FFP and SFP choices, as well as S & B's published PMII 5-25X FFP and SFP choices.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">PMII 5-25X <span style="color: #FF0000">FFP</span>:</span></span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">P3L, P4L, P4L Fine, Police, Klein, H2CMR, and H37</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">PMII 5-25X <span style="color: #FF0000">SFP</span>:</span></span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">P3L, P4L, P4L Fine</span>



<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">PMII 12.5-50X <span style="color: #FF0000">FFP</span>:</span></span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">P3, P4 Fine</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">PMII 12.5-50X <span style="color: #FF0000">SFP</span>:</span></span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">P3L, P4L Fine, Sport, and Sport Fine</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For tactical comps, the decision is easy. If you do not understand what this means I suggest a little research before you continue... </div></div>
Agreed. The fact that the OP is has mentioned the .338LM for tactical comps possibly setup with a PMII 12.-50X tells me that he or she is unfamiliar with the .338LM.


Keith

 

[dieselten]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Aries64</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">5-25=FFP

12.5-50=SFP...</div></div>
As written, the above is incomplete and therefore incorrect. The PMII 5-25X is available in both FFP and SFP, although the newer reticles are not available in SFP - at least yet. The reticle choices are the same regardless of whether the PMII 5-25X is a PMII LP, PMII LP / MTC, or PMII LP / MTC / LT model.

The PMII 12.5-50X is also available is both FFP and SFP, but more reticles are available in the SFP version. Below are S & B's published PMII 5-25X FFP and SFP choices, as well as S & B's published PMII 5-25X FFP and SFP choices.

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">PMII 5-25X <span style="color: #FF0000">FFP</span>:</span></span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">P3L, P4L, P4L Fine, Police, Klein, H2CMR, and H37</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">PMII 5-25X <span style="color: #FF0000">SFP</span>:</span></span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">P3L, P4L, P4L Fine</span>



<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">PMII 12.5-50X <span style="color: #FF0000">FFP</span>:</span></span></span>
<span style="font-weight: bold">P3, P4 Fine</span>

<span style="font-weight: bold"><span style="font-style: italic"><span style="text-decoration: underline">PMII 12.5-50X <span style="color: #FF0000">SFP</span>:</span></span></span>

<span style="font-weight: bold">P3L, P4L Fine, Sport, and Sport Fine</span>


<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 19Scout77</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For tactical comps, the decision is easy. If you do not understand what this means I suggest a little research before you continue... </div></div>
Agreed. The fact that the OP is has mentioned the .338LM for tactical comps possibly setup with a PMII 12.-50X tells me that he or she is unfamiliar with the .338LM.


Keith </div></div>

For the record, the currently available PMII is a 12-50x56 not a 12.5-50x56. And for those who asked, there is absolutely no tunneling at all. Another thing to consider is that the mil/mil version has only 3.5 mils per turn with 5 turns, so approximately 17.5 mils total.

 

[evilcoon]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

It's been a couple of years now and just wanted to see if the S&B 12.5-50 has become more popular. Has anything changed since? There was another post on here where a member was wanting to use this scope to shoot varmint at 1000m.

Always good to revive a very informative thread

 

[Colcalcipherol]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

This forum has faded into history but I came across it researching this ultra long range scope. The fact is that more is not always better but it sure as heck is tempting. Over the past two years, have any of you made use of the S&B 12-50x56???

I am having a .375 CheyTac built and I want to stretch the laws of physics so I am tempted by the higher power. If nothing else, I like the idea of being able to use it as a spotting scope. I used to use a Leupold VXIII that, I believe, was 8-24 and when shooting across canyons out west, I can't count the times I wanted more power. My longest kill shot was on a hog at 800 yards with a .338-378 Weatherby. Unless I can get swayed into the S&B, I think I'll go with the NF 8-32x 56.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

It's still the same scope with the same features that are undesirable for this game. It's still fine for static, known range shooting.

I'd also avoid the 8-32x NXS. Not enough elevation range and still SFP. It's a pure "target" scope.

The 5-25x56 is the king of the hill, still.

 

[Dogtown]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">For the record, the currently available PMII is a 12-50x56 not a 12.5-50x56. And for those who asked, there is absolutely no tunneling at all. Another thing to consider is that the mil/mil version has only 3.5 mils per turn with 5 turns, so approximately 17.5 mils total.</div></div>

"Benchrest"

 

[wiganbear]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

I have the 12.5-50 on my AW. I chose this one over the lower mag 5-25 as,

It was cheaper
I'd sold a load of scopes and rifles and this gun was going to be my do everything gun
I figured you can't have too much mag as you don't need to use it all

As it happened I got more into the tactical comps rather than F class and Benchrest and do miss being able to wind it down past 12.5 in certain comps. If I had my time again I would buy a S/h 5-25 but it can't bother me that much as I could easily sell it and do that!!!!

 

[lrs50bmg]

Re: Schmidt Bender 5-25x56 or 12.5-50x56 for AIAW .338

I personally would only consider the S&B 12-50X as it is now for benchrest competition use. In that case, I would also like the .025 clicks, which no longer seems to be available. If you are trying to shoot 5 shot groups smaller than 5 inches at 1000 yards, you better be able to have enough magnification to make adjustments of an inch or two on the target. Now I am not suggesting I would make the adjustment with the turrets, but it is still nice having the smaller adjustments when sighting in. The drawback in my opinion to the higher magnification scopes in anything other than known distance competition, is the reduction in elevation adjustment. I am used to being able to dial from 100 to 2000 m/y with a scope on an appropriately sloped base, so that I can use most if not all of the scopes available elevation adjustment with any of my long range rifles capable of that distance (.338, .375, .50). In a sniper competition, I would still go with the 5-25X, as I would not likely be engaging targets beyond 1200-1500 anyway.. and I am not trying to shoot a 5 shot group under 5 inches... I am trying to hit the target, and would use all of the target height and width I could to give myself as much room for error as possible. It is also necessary at times to have low enough magnification and enough field of view to engage a target in the time allotted. Now if S&B made the 12-50X with 28 mils of elevation adjustment and .05 clicks, I'd be all over it! Heck, I'm used to spinning the older NF scopes up 85 MOA or more to go from 100 to 1800-2000 with 10 MOA per revolution!

The scope is a tool.. pick the right tool for the job at hand and hope the scope manufacturers keep making more options available to us!