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Rifle Scopes Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PM II/LP/MTC/LT or Kahles k624i MSR-K
- Thread starter Barn Side
- Start date
It is completely a personal choice as both are great. I myself like the bender better. There is nothing bad you can really say about either. But having owned both I am staying with the PMII
If your RH the s&b is probably the better option, but if you're LH I think the Kahles ergos are enough to tip the scale.
Both top of the line. I have the S&B and love it. I went without the MTC, have heard that you can over click and gets a bit annoying.
both are great scopes, so get behind both and see which you like. I personally like the kahles out of the two.
My friend and I just competed in the Sniper's Hide Cup. Me with the Schmidt and Bender and he with the Kahles. They both worked very well. He has commented in the past the lack of locking turrets on his scope. We believe that the optics are very similar. The turrets is what makes the S&B stand apart.
I personally love the MTC turrets. They wear in a little bit over time and it is an extra feature that you can adapt to. Then, you can use the scope in lowlight or zero light situations. The zero stop is also very nice on the S&B.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
I personally love the MTC turrets. They wear in a little bit over time and it is an extra feature that you can adapt to. Then, you can use the scope in lowlight or zero light situations. The zero stop is also very nice on the S&B.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
I personally run a Kahles. I have to compared it optically to a couple SBs and they are very close.
The Kahles clicks are nice and tight and it would take A LOT for them to be moved accidentally but I suppose it could happen under the right circumstances. I've carried mine on my back, over a backpack sometimes, up and down ASC twice and they never moved once.
The Kahles is quite a bit lighter which is nice. I like the parallax a lot. The Schmidt does focus closer but I've never had a problem with it since you can back off power.
Both are great scopes. You can't go wrong with either.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
The Kahles clicks are nice and tight and it would take A LOT for them to be moved accidentally but I suppose it could happen under the right circumstances. I've carried mine on my back, over a backpack sometimes, up and down ASC twice and they never moved once.
The Kahles is quite a bit lighter which is nice. I like the parallax a lot. The Schmidt does focus closer but I've never had a problem with it since you can back off power.
Both are great scopes. You can't go wrong with either.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I317 using Tapatalk 2
I have both and neither one outshines the other. They are both fantastic and will serve you well. I have more time behind the S&B but the Kahles is really growing on me.
I don't own one yet....but have got to drool and handle enough to know what I want...
I think you need to get behind both...but I'm sure you will like [to] Bender over Kahles.
I would consider the PMII without the MTC turrets though....
I think you need to get behind both...but I'm sure you will like [to] Bender over Kahles.
I would consider the PMII without the MTC turrets though....
I just got the Kahles, and like it so far. I love the MSRK, and the weight of the scope.
Its $1000 less, and I think Kahles is a more hungry company and is trying to gain market share by listening to its customers. Ie. (Gen1-2 improvements)
Kahles/Swarovski has been missing out on a ton of tactical scope sales and if they can keep CS very high and listen to the needs of the shooters.....(not the military with needless R/D and cost of, turret locks etc.) they will dominate the market.
Its $1000 less, and I think Kahles is a more hungry company and is trying to gain market share by listening to its customers. Ie. (Gen1-2 improvements)
Kahles/Swarovski has been missing out on a ton of tactical scope sales and if they can keep CS very high and listen to the needs of the shooters.....(not the military with needless R/D and cost of, turret locks etc.) they will dominate the market.
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I absolutely love those MTC locking turrets on the S&B 3-20 over the DT. I've only been behind the K but wasn't impressed enough to buy one plus the guy who owned it had to send it back for repair then sold it later.
I just bought the Kahles 6-24 MSRK and love it. I also have a Steiner 5-25 and its a badass scope too. Outside of having a little more forgiving eye box, I couldn't tell any difference in the glass quality. I even compared them at sunset/dark and couldn't decide which one was better. I didn't at first but I like having the paralax where it is on the Kahles. I have looked through a couple but for whatever reason, I have no desire to own a S&B.
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I myself own two S&B's.
I like the MTC though I have heard a lot of people complain about them.
For me I was looking at Khales, Steiner and Schmidt before I made my final decision. I was fortunate enough to be at Manatee Gun Club in Florida and was able to look through each of the models I wanted. Guys down there had a lot of toys.
In your case, S&B vs Khales are outstanding scopes. I chose S&B for features/reticles I wanted. If one had better glass than other I would consider them Lamborghini vs Ferrari - who cares I'll take either.
I don't see you going wrong with either. I am beyond happy with my two S&B's. My pockets would say other though.
Though the AMR reticle seems an improvement over the Horus family of reticles, I have been leery of Kahles scopes since I had catastrophic failures on two different Kahles-manufactured Swarovski scopes in the 90's (the STANAG mounts sheared off one scope that was used on a special receiver AUG and the other scope's reticle rotated within the tube). The 6 month round-trip to Austria to fix each scope wasn't pleasant.
Nothing in this life is perfect, but the PM II is close (laughing).
Nothing in this life is perfect, but the PM II is close (laughing).
Wow, that does not sound good at all. And then, six months to wait. Glad I went with S&B as well.
Kahles turn around time to Austria is about 4-5 weeks right now. Far cry from 6 months 15+ years ago.
My turn around time on the Schmidt and Bender was 2 days, not including the shipping back and forth.
That's because S&B has a US branch in Virginia and Jerry is a bad ass that can handle most issues stateside. If Kahles had a US based facility I'm sure it would be the same. My main point was that a lot has changed with wait times for Kahles in the last 15+ years.
WOW this looks like a great debate!
I have S&B, Premier, and the Kahles. I’m sure whatever one you get you will love. We have been getting great feedback on the Kahles 6-24x with the MSR and the AMR reticles.
I have tested the Kahles glass to the Premier, S&B and the Nightforce BEAST and the Kahles did just as good in my opinion. A common statement I get from guys that own both S&B and the Kahles “At times they feel the Kahles see better and at other times they feel the S&B sees better.”
Mike @ CSTACTICAL
I have S&B, Premier, and the Kahles. I’m sure whatever one you get you will love. We have been getting great feedback on the Kahles 6-24x with the MSR and the AMR reticles.
I have tested the Kahles glass to the Premier, S&B and the Nightforce BEAST and the Kahles did just as good in my opinion. A common statement I get from guys that own both S&B and the Kahles “At times they feel the Kahles see better and at other times they feel the S&B sees better.”
Mike @ CSTACTICAL
The parallax knob on top seals the deal for me. The Kahles must be very good glass to even be mentioned in the same breath as S&B.
The MSR looks the shit, too.
In a Spuhr mount.
The MSR looks the shit, too.
In a Spuhr mount.
WOW this looks like a great debate!
I have S&B, Premier, and the Kahles. I’m sure whatever one you get you will love. We have been getting great feedback on the Kahles 6-24x with the MSR and the AMR reticles.
I have tested the Kahles glass to the Premier, S&B and the Nightforce BEAST and the Kahles did just as good in my opinion. A common statement I get from guys that own both S&B and the Kahles “At times they feel the Kahles see better and at other times they feel the S&B sees better.”
Mike @ CSTACTICAL
Thanks for the very good side by side pic of the S&B, NF and Kahles scopes.
Gotta love SH and it's fine vendors.
Found this on the Kahles website:
"I have been using the KAHLES K624i since its debut in 2012. As the owner of Snipers Hide.com, I have at my disposal nearly every premium Tactical scope made. Time and time again, I find myself reaching for the KAHLES when the shots matter the most. “Comparable glass quality to optics that cost much more, I find the KAHLES optics a true force to be contended with" Frank Galli
I’m looking at the Kahles k624i, Tangent Theta 5-25x56mm Model TT525P and Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PM II/LP/MTC/LT.
I was reading that the Schmidt and Bender PMii 5-25x56 was revolutionary at the time and way ahead of the competition but that it is now ten years old and others have caught up and some perhaps surpassed it, but it is still the scope to which all others are compared. The new 3-27x56 PM II High Power is very expensive but I would buy it if I thought it was clearly a superior scope, but the reception has been Luke warm. However most of the pros apparently use the S&B PMii and it is recommended by AI.
"I have been using the KAHLES K624i since its debut in 2012. As the owner of Snipers Hide.com, I have at my disposal nearly every premium Tactical scope made. Time and time again, I find myself reaching for the KAHLES when the shots matter the most. “Comparable glass quality to optics that cost much more, I find the KAHLES optics a true force to be contended with" Frank Galli
I’m looking at the Kahles k624i, Tangent Theta 5-25x56mm Model TT525P and Schmidt & Bender 5-25x56 PM II/LP/MTC/LT.
I was reading that the Schmidt and Bender PMii 5-25x56 was revolutionary at the time and way ahead of the competition but that it is now ten years old and others have caught up and some perhaps surpassed it, but it is still the scope to which all others are compared. The new 3-27x56 PM II High Power is very expensive but I would buy it if I thought it was clearly a superior scope, but the reception has been Luke warm. However most of the pros apparently use the S&B PMii and it is recommended by AI.
I would not want to send my scope all the way to Austria to get warranty service period the end. S&B all the way, mine is amazing with the MSR reticle. I'm sure the Khales is a great scope, but not sending my 3,000+scope out of the country to get fixed.
I have 2 Kahles 624I scopes both AMR reticle! I ordered a S&B H2CMR reticle because on the Kahles sometimes it washes out, maybe it is my bad eyes but I want to give S&B try. I have over year with the Kahles and I have looked through S&B and to my eyes S&B was little more clear but my eyes are different than yours or anybody elses. It's a toss up.
I would pick the Schmidt PM2 every time and I will probably never sell the one I have.
I want to like the Kahles but every time I look through one I am reminded on why I will never purchase one. The shallow depth of field and colourbleed (CA) lets it down, big time.
I hope that their 5-25 is better, but then again it cost more than the PM2 so the PM2 still comes out on top.
You should also take a gander at Minox ZP5, they are very hard to fault.
I want to like the Kahles but every time I look through one I am reminded on why I will never purchase one. The shallow depth of field and colourbleed (CA) lets it down, big time.
I hope that their 5-25 is better, but then again it cost more than the PM2 so the PM2 still comes out on top.
You should also take a gander at Minox ZP5, they are very hard to fault.
I traded my S&B for my Kahles and have never looked back.
Hated the H2CMR reticle and I like the parallax on the Kahles more (I'm a righty). Also like the left side windage.
Just saw when this thread was created. Pretty sure the gen 3 Kahles has come out since then.
Hated the H2CMR reticle and I like the parallax on the Kahles more (I'm a righty). Also like the left side windage.
Just saw when this thread was created. Pretty sure the gen 3 Kahles has come out since then.
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