Rifle Scopes Schmidt Bender H2CMP, P4FL, MSR, or TReMor3 which should i choose.

[Yamimoto85r6]

So i need your guys help. I'm in the process of buying my "dream bolt action rife" within the next few weeks. Im new to this whole long range shooting scene (beyond 200 yrds). I been on here for the past couple of weeks reading and absorbed as much as my brain can handle and i finally narrowed down the brand and magnification.

After going back and forth with many brands i decided on the tried and true Schmidt Bender PMII 5-25x56. I just cant figure out which reticle to choose.

I plan on only shooting bench rest and prone. As of right now i have no plans to compete, but things may change when i get more proficient.

As for distance i have access to 500-1000yrds ranges around me.

I plan on mounting this onto a Accuracy International AXMC in 300 win mag (338 lapua is just a little to costly to learn on) with a RRS scope mount

So my questions are out of these reticles, H2CMP, P4FL, MSR, or TReMor3. Which would you recommend? also with scope mount am i safe to assume i can go with a 0MOA due to the rifle already having 30moa built into the rail?

Thanks for your input.

 

[6AYoteHunter]

MSR or Tremor 3 are my favorites amoung those options.

Consider a 6.5 creedmoor for learning if your range is 500-1000 yards.


​​​​
​​​​​

 

[6.5texas.shooter]

Personally I can go either way a less cluttered reticle (p4f)(msr) is sometimes nice with low light settings.

The msr has some finer measurement attributes. Great reticle

h2cmr is a good middle ground. You get a plain traditional feel but still have .2 subtensions for holding and bracketing wind.

T3 is a natural transition from h59 & tremor 2. You're getting the best of both worlds. You can hold over and not dial. If you chose to dial you'll still have .2 subs out from center post for finer wind holds. If you hold you'll have an ingeniously placed set of wind dots that can be set up for any caliber and won't change hardly at all with a DA change.

Ive had extensive use with all three. All three are very capable and well thought out designs.

Me personally I prefer having the .2 hashes, you're no longer guessing and have a solid hold. And the vertical .2's can be utilized for close shots and shots out to 2-300 yards without dialing. Which is better for a hunting application.

Honest opinion, I'd be torn between t3 and H2cmr. It's all about what your shooting style is and how you plan to use the optic.

Khales AMR reticle in their scopes should also be considered
-Dakota

 

[diverdon]

I prefer the H2CMR for its clean functionality, and uncluttered look.

 

[Covertnoob5]

I go H2CMR. Although I recently got one with an h59 and really like that too


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pmclaine]

H2CMR.

It was my first reticle that wasn't just two lines crossing.

I found it easy to read and allows for fine milling.

 

[OH58DViper]

Find the one that is most pleasing to your eye. i have sold optics in the past that I'm just not as fast with due to the reticle. Sometimes these can be expensive lessons to learn. Luckily my eye likes Christmas tree reticles that keep a constant hold angle (SKMR/MR4). For my hunting guns I use the H2CMR, the reticle is a bit thick for paper punching or hitting a X ring at 1000 but it's great for squishy targets.

 

[mpk1996]

For the type of shooting you are looking at doing. I would stay away from the tree reticles (H59, T2, T3, ect). they tend to get cluttered and make it harder to spot misses and targets with darker backgrounds. I personally love my H2CMR, the P4F didn't do anything for me. I would think that most of the time shooting prone/benchrest at distance, you will be dialing and holding wind, or dialing both. so take a look at the center of each reticle that you like and see which one appeals to you more. As I said, I like my H2CMR, but truly prefer a floating center dot, but that's me. with the .2 wind holds, I think the H2CMR wins over the P4F. either way though, you will have a great scope that won't hold you back

 

[Polizei45]

I just came back from a 3 day Long Gun Training INC. class with our own Frank Galli as guest instructor and hit steel out to 700 yards with the H2CMR. It did everything it needed to to do on movers and unknown distances. Like everyone has said it gives you .2 for wind holds and for unknown distances targets. And it's a tried and trued scope that works.

 

[SRPowah]

I know off topic, but are you sure you want to LEARN on a .300wm?

 

[vh20]

Yes, you only need a 0MOA mount if 30MOA is built into the gun. That does depend a bit on what distance you'll be shooting, what cartridge, and how much internal travel the scope has, but the SB will have enough to get you to at least a mile +. Go with a Spuhr if you can. SP-4006 (0MOA) works for my two SBs on 20MOA integrally-machined-into-the-action rails and provides enough clearance for the scope and sunshade. I shoot 1330 yds. several times a week with a 6.5CM and I'm not quite even into the second rotation on the Elevation turret (13.3-13.5 or-so mils right now) and I'm near sea level (200).

I'm surprised so many people recommended the H2MR, as I figured it wasn't fancy enough for most folks. But yeah, that's what both of mine have, and I really like it for what I do (which is similar to what you described). The 0.2 marks are what sold me on it over the P4F, as the reticle thickness is the same.

 

[m1match]

I have S&Bs with both the P4F and the H2CMR reticles. Both of them work well for me, but for competitions I prefer the H2CMR because I dial for elevation and hold for wind usually and the hash marks every .2 mils allows me to make more precise wind holds. I agree with the previous post that I would not pick the 300 WM for a 1st precision rifle. Compared to 6.5 Creedmoor, 260, or 6.5x47 the effective range of the 300 WM isn't that much longer, the recoil is a LOT more, and ammo is a lot more cost to buy factory or to reload. When I switched to 6.5 Creedmoor I bought a thousand rounds of Hornady 140 AMAX ammo, and when that was shot up, I used the brass to reload. I'm now shooting Hornady 140 ELDM bullets with excellent results and Hornady factory ammo is still excellent.

 

[MysizeisMAGNUM]

I've had MSR it wasn't my favorite, I'd go H2CMR or my favorite Klein.

 

[jonthomps]

I've tried many reticles and I keep coming back to the H2CMR. To date, I think the H2CMR is one of the most usable, easy to understand reticles out there.

 

[Sheldon N]

I've got S+B scopes with the GenIIXR reticle and the H2CMR reticle. Prefer the H2CMR, easier to read, 0.2mil hash marks for wind.

And agree with the above comments... get yourself a 6.5 Creed barrel for the AXMC and the short action kit. No need to go 300 win mag. Heck, if you only have access to a 1000 yard range you'd be better going off with the short action AI AX and run switch barrels on that.

 

[pmclaine]

Im not sure how to read the stats....

1. H2CMR reticles are preferred

or,

2. People that bought H2CMR reticles are fewer in number than people that bought a more popular reticle but they are more likely to post their love for their less popular reticle on public forums.

 

[Darkside-Six]

I'm a big fan of the MSR. It's now what I run on my S&B. Much less clutter but still very effective.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sheldon N]

Im not sure how to read the stats....

1. H2CMR reticles are preferred

or,

2. People that bought H2CMR reticles are fewer in number than people that bought a more popular reticle but they are more likely to post their love for their less popular reticle on public forums.

About right...

How about option 3, Snipers Hide is full of shooters who compete or shoot in a similar style.... and H2CMR is the preferred option for that style of shooting. If you look at Precision Rifle Blog's survey of PRS shooters using S+B scopes the last 3 years the H2CMR reticle is the strong favorite, more than 2:1 compared to any other reticle.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I have/had all of those reticles, really don't care for the MSR or P4F as they just don't have the fine hash marks for accurate wind holds.

I have two H2CMR's and a Tremor 3 in the 5-25 right now and they're all great but I think the Tremor 3 is my new favorite reticle. The Tremor 3 sits atop my AXMC. It has the benefits of the H2CMR plus the H59/Tremor grid system, wind dots, mover brackets. It has it all. I also find the wind dots to help break up the reticle a little more and make the grids quicker to use. Another option I'd toss into the mix is the new LRR-MIL reticle they have coming out, but I'd still take the Tremor 3 to have the hold option too. Info on the LRR-MIL can be seen here:

http://www.eurooptic.com/blog/post/2017/03/15/sneak-peek-schmidt-bender-lrr-mil-reticle

Stick with the standard DT version of the scope if you can as they're dead nuts reliable.

 

[Mute]

Tried them all. Continue to prefer the MSR for it's clean simplicity and versatility. Hate Christmas tree type reticles. I can see the benefits of the H2CMR .2 holds, but haven't found it necessary myself. I can do the wind holds just fine even without it.

 

[JayOpticspecialist]

look through all of them and go with what you like

 

[USMCCOMBATVET]

May also want to consider Gen2XR. Mile high shooting has them in stock with DT turret.

 

[Yamimoto85r6]

WOW thanks for everyones reply and help. I think im going to go with the H2CMR biased off of everyones recommendation

I know off topic, but are you sure you want to LEARN on a .300wm?

yea i know its a little pricy but this is going to to be my dream bolt action rifle, i do on eventually purchasing the conversion kits. but for now im gonna use .300 win mag. if it dose get a little to costly and i need a smaller caliber i do have a LMT MWS .308 i can practice with. also i do want a round that will kick a little more so it stops me from being at the range all day.

 

[Shanerbanner10]

WOW thanks for everyones reply and help. I think im going to go with the H2CMR biased off of everyones recommendation



yea i know its a little pricy but this is going to to be my dream bolt action rifle, i do on eventually purchasing the conversion kits. but for now im gonna use .300 win mag. if it dose get a little to costly and i need a smaller caliber i do have a LMT MWS .308 i can practice with. also i do want a round that will kick a little more so it stops me from being at the range all day.

While I know that seems like a good idea in theory, I would highly advise you to rethink that idea and go with a short action cartridge like the .308, .260, 6.5 creed or similar cartridges. Starting to learn this stuff on a .300 will likely develop bad habits that will need broken later when you move to another cartridge. I would suggest a tried and true .308 and get the .300 conversion down the road. .308 will give you what you want while being cheap to shoot, easily get to 1000+, plenty accurate, lots of factory ammo out there, barrel life is retarded good. Start on a 6.5 would be like cheating lol, seriously shoot a .308 at 500 and then shoot a 6.5 its ridiculous. That LMT MWS in .308 would be great and all but its another animal in and of itself. Driving a gas gun is a bit different than a bolt gun.

As for reticle options, H2CMR or Tremor 3 for me. I know they are opposite ends of the spectrum but I enjoy the wind dots of the T3 for hold over purposes and the simplicity of the H2CMR. I would also suggest, kinda of the best of both worlds for me, the Gen 2 XR.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

You can't get the AXMC in 308 of out the gate (currently). It has to be ordered in a magnum round. That said, I would suggest buying the 308 conversion stuff sooner than later.

 

[Blasst]

I have/had all of those reticles, really don't care for the MSR or P4F as they just don't have the fine hash marks for accurate wind holds.

I have two H2CMR's and a Tremor 3 in the 5-25 right now and they're all great but I think the Tremor 3 is my new favorite reticle. The Tremor 3 sits atop my AXMC. It has the benefits of the H2CMR plus the H59/Tremor grid system, wind dots, mover brackets. It has it all. I also find the wind dots to help break up the reticle a little more and make the grids quicker to use. Another option I'd toss into the mix is the new LRR-MIL reticle they have coming out, but I'd still take the Tremor 3 to have the hold option too. Info on the LRR-MIL can be seen here:

http://www.eurooptic.com/blog/post/2...rr-mil-reticle

Stick with the standard DT version of the scope if you can as they're dead nuts reliable.

When you say stick with the the standard DT version........do you mean without the MTC and LC ?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

When you say stick with the the standard DT version........do you mean without the MTC and LC ?

That's correct.

 

[SRPowah]

yea i know its a little pricy but this is going to to be my dream bolt action rifle, i do on eventually purchasing the conversion kits. i do want a round that will kick a little more so it stops me from being at the range all day.

This has NOTHING to do with price. I bought one of my dream rifles in the DT SRS and I have a .300WM barrel for it... This has to do with your key word of LEARN on it. With a magnum round, your failures in fundamentals are magnified. Learning on a magnum could throw you off to the point that you might not know which part you are screwing up on. Sure you might group 1.5moa with it, but that sucks if its a .5moa gun. If this is your dream gun, keep pinching pennies and buy the .308 for it ASAP or simply throw together a cheaper gun to practice with. You are literally going to waste both rounds and a barrel by the time you LEARN on that caliber. I have a .308 R700 that I normally bring out to plink and practice, but I have my SRS when I really want to reach out there...

A bolt gun is not a semi-auto. As you learn, you will find that you drive them differently to get the same accuracy out of both. I encourage you to research, as even opinions on this post have noted that issue as well.

 

[justme]

I chose the MSR in my Pm2 and am very happy with it.

With that said , do like I did ,- look at them all and pick the one that YOU like

 

[Yamimoto85r6]

This has NOTHING to do with price. I bought one of my dream rifles in the DT SRS and I have a .300WM barrel for it... This has to do with your key word of LEARN on it. With a magnum round, your failures in fundamentals are magnified. Learning on a magnum could throw you off to the point that you might not know which part you are screwing up on. Sure you might group 1.5moa with it, but that sucks if its a .5moa gun. If this is your dream gun, keep pinching pennies and buy the .308 for it ASAP or simply throw together a cheaper gun to practice with. You are literally going to waste both rounds and a barrel by the time you LEARN on that caliber. I have a .308 R700 that I normally bring out to plink and practice, but I have my SRS when I really want to reach out there...

A bolt gun is not a semi-auto. As you learn, you will find that you drive them differently to get the same accuracy out of both. I encourage you to research, as even opinions on this post have noted that issue as well.

thanks for the suggestion. i decided to take everyones advise and I'm gonna purchase a conversion kit to go 6.5 creedmoor when i order my gun.

 

[Covertnoob5]

thanks for the suggestion. i decided to take everyones advise and I'm gonna purchase a conversion kit to go 6.5 creedmoor when i order my gun.

Smart move.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk