Schmidt bender lock turret issues

[Tonsofguns]

So this is what happens when you don’t read directions.
I unlocked the screw that wasn’t supposed to be unlocked and pulled the turret off. Now I can’t seem to get it back on. Anyone have any ideas on how to get it back on?

 

[Kiba]

OK, here's what you need to do...

First, remove all 3 setscrews from the knob and set them aside. Degrease one of them as it will be getting loctite.

Next, it looks like the lower detent clicker pin in the scope body has rotated 90 degrees, and that's what is probably keeping you from sliding the turret all the way back down. Those detent pins are at the 6 o'clock position on the turret housing facing the eyepiece. Rotate the lower detent pin so the notch is vertical like the upper pin.

Now, pull the locking collar on the elevation knob up so it covers the setscrew holes. Slide the knob back on the turret and make sure it's seated all the way down. Probably have the 7 mil mark or so facing the alignment notch on the scope body when you install the knob so the second rotation indicator mechanism or zero stop won't get hung up on the pin that actuates them At this point, while keeping light finger pressure down on the center of the knob, rotate it to make sure you have the zero stop, 0.1 mil clicks, 1.0 mil MTC clicks, and that the second rev indicator popup works.

Next, while maintaining downward pressure on the center of the knob, push the locking collar down into the "locked" position to get access to the setscrew holes. Use a flashlight and look into one of the setscrew holes, the setscrew holes should line up with that groove on top of the elevation turret spindle in the scope body. If the setscrew holes are above that groove, the knob is still sitting too high and you may have disturbed/rotated one of the detent clicker pins when sliding the knob on.

After you've verified the set screw holes are aligned with the groove in the elevation turret spindle, with the locking collar still in the down/locked position and while keeping light finger pressure downwards on the center of the knob, apply some medium strength loctite to one of the setscrews and install it in the knob. NOTE: S&B wants the 2 "unplugged" set screws that get used for zeroing clocked 90 degrees apart, so make sure the "plugged" setscrew you just installed isn't in the middle hole of the hole pattern. Putting the "plugged" / loctited set screw in the location closest to the objective with the turret dialed to zero is S&B's standard spot.

Run that loctited setscrew down until you just feel it touch the elevation turret spindle, then loosen it about 1/4 turn. This is the "plugged" setscrew that gets the plastic plug, and the only function it serves is to poke partway into that groove on the elevation turret spindle so you can't pull the knob off when you loosen the other 2 setscrews to zero the turret. If this setscrew is too tight it will rotate the elevation turret spindle and you can't zero the scope, but you also don't want it so loose it doesn't capture the groove on the spindle and allows you to pull the knob off the turret. A good check to do here is to look through the scope while dialing the elevation turret. It's going to click, but the reticle should not move. If the reticle moves, that setscrew is contacting the elevation spindle and adjusting the turret, so back it out a little more before the loctite sets.

After the loctite on the "plugged" knob retention setscrew has set, stick the plastic plug back in it, then reinstall the two other setscrews that are used for zeroing the turret... you should be back in business.

 

[Tonsofguns]

thanks for taking the time to explain this precisely and thoroughly. I'll work on it this afternoon and report back.

 

[scott5456]

OK, here's what you need to do...

First, remove all 3 setscrews from the knob and set them aside. Degrease one of them as it will be getting loctite.

Next, it looks like the lower detent clicker pin in the scope body has rotated 90 degrees, and that's what is probably keeping you from sliding the turret all the way back down. Those detent pins are at the 6 o'clock position on the turret housing facing the eyepiece. Rotate the lower detent pin so the notch is vertical like the upper pin.

Now, pull the locking collar on the elevation knob up so it covers the setscrew holes. Slide the knob back on the turret and make sure it's seated all the way down. Probably have the 7 mil mark or so facing the alignment notch on the scope body when you install the knob so the second rotation indicator mechanism or zero stop won't get hung up on the pin that actuates them At this point, while keeping light finger pressure down on the center of the knob, rotate it to make sure you have the zero stop, 0.1 mil clicks, 1.0 mil MTC clicks, and that the second rev indicator popup works.

Next, while maintaining downward pressure on the center of the knob, push the locking collar down into the "locked" position to get access to the setscrew holes. Use a flashlight and look into one of the setscrew holes, the setscrew holes should line up with that groove on top of the elevation turret spindle in the scope body. If the setscrew holes are above that groove, the knob is still sitting too high and you may have disturbed/rotated one of the detent clicker pins when sliding the knob on.

After you've verified the set screw holes are aligned with the groove in the elevation turret spindle, with the locking collar still in the down/locked position and while keeping light finger pressure downwards on the center of the knob, apply some medium strength loctite to one of the setscrews and install it in the knob. NOTE: S&B wants the 2 "unplugged" set screws that get used for zeroing clocked 90 degrees apart, so make sure the "plugged" setscrew you just installed isn't in the middle hole of the hole pattern. Putting the "plugged" / loctited set screw in the location closest to the objective with the turret dialed to zero is S&B's standard spot.

Run that loctited setscrew down until you just feel it touch the elevation turret spindle, then loosen it about 1/4 turn. This is the "plugged" setscrew that gets the plastic plug, and the only function it serves is to poke partway into that groove on the elevation turret spindle so you can't pull the knob off when you loosen the other 2 setscrews to zero the turret. If this setscrew is too tight it will rotate the elevation turret spindle and you can't zero the scope, but you also don't want it so loose it doesn't capture the groove on the spindle and allows you to pull the knob off the turret. A good check to do here is to look through the scope while dialing the elevation turret. It's going to click, but the reticle should not move. If the reticle moves, that setscrew is contacting the elevation spindle and adjusting the turret, so back it out a little more before the loctite sets.

After the loctite on the "plugged" knob retention setscrew has set, stick the plastic plug back in it, then reinstall the two other setscrews that are used for zeroing the turret... you should be back in business.

I wish someone would have typed this out for me when I did it. Took me an hour to get it back together. Really well written instructions!

I will add that it is possible to get the turret on, feels correct and operates correct, but 180 degrees off so the DT indicator does not pop up correctly.

 

[M4guru]

I popped one off of an Ultra Short once on a hunting trip and it took Marty from Badger a couple hours to figure out how to fix it. I read the manual after that.

“They’re turrets, how hard can this be?” -famous last words.

 

[bunny too]

I had to send mine back east for them to fix it. It had stopped clicking and everything.

 

[Tonsofguns]

So should I put back in the elevation knobs one at a time (2pieces), or should I put them together and then try to fit it in.

I don’t think I am installing correctly, as there isnt enough space to get the screws in and I can get it to click properly.

 

[Kiba]

No need to separate the locking collar from the main knob body.

It's been a while since I had the MTC/LT elevation knob off my 3-20, so I'm going from memory here.

You can put the set screws back in the knob before you put it back on the scope, but you need to have them backed out as far as possible so they don't snag the spindle when sliding the knob back onto the turret, but not so far out they rub the locking collar. Install them like that and look underneath the knob, if the setscrews don't protrude into the counterbore for the elevation spindle you're good to go.

You'll also have to put loctite on the one setscrew at that time.

Or, once the knob is installed, you can hold the locking collar down and very slightly lift the center portion of the knob to make room to install the setscrews, but with this method you risk disturbing one or both of the detent pins and having to start over.

Sometimes it takes a couple tries to get the knob on correctly as the detent pins can rotate when you slide the knob back on. If the 0.1 or 1.0 detents are not clicking properly one or both of the detent pins probably rotated when installing the knob, or the knob isn't fully seated and the detent pins aren't engaging the grooves in the knob.

 

[Krob95]

Worst case, call Jerry at Schmidt and Bender in VA and tell him what you did. He will have you send it back and they’ll fix it up for ya. I messed mine up too and called him up, shipped it out East, got it back. All in a week and a half. They did a full tear down and inspected everything while it was there too which was awesome. He is awesome and will treat you right.

 

[bunny too]

Worst case, call Jerry at Schmidt and Bender in VA and tell him what you did. He will have you send it back and they’ll fix it up for ya. I messed mine up too and called him up, shipped it out East, got it back. All in a week and a half. They did a full tear down and inspected everything while it was there too which was awesome. He is awesome and will treat you right.

That is what I had to do as well.

 

[Kiba]

Worst case, call Jerry at Schmidt and Bender in VA and tell him what you did. He will have you send it back and they’ll fix it up for ya. I messed mine up too and called him up, shipped it out East, got it back. All in a week and a half. They did a full tear down and inspected everything while it was there too which was awesome. He is awesome and will treat you right.

Jerry is a great dude, but S&B service makes the occasional mistake too.

One of my 3-20s had an issue out of the box where you couldn't zero it, after loosening the 2 setscrews the elevation would still adjust when you rotated the knob.

Sent it in, and it came back doing the exact same thing, but this time the elevation only occasionally adjusted when trying to zero the scope. Turns out they had the "plugged" retention setscrew installed too snug and it was dragging the spindle slightly when trying to zero the scope.

I didn't feel like sending it in and being without it another 3 weeks, so I took it apart. That's how I figured out how these turrets work. All I had to do was remove the plugged retention setscrew, apply fresh loctite, and reinstall it backed off a little more than they had installed it. It only had to be about 1/16 turn looser than it was to not drag the elevation spindle and zero properly.

The turrets are simpler than you think thanks to clever design, and there's no black magic to them... but there are several little "fiddly bits" inside that have to get lined up properly when installing it that are easy to knock out of position when installing the knob.

It might take you a few tries, but you should be able to get it back together without shipping it back. Just take care not to dislodge and lose the detent pins or springs.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Thanks again Kiba!!

I am going to give it another go this afternoon. SB is an hour drive from me, so at least it's not too far. But i was hoping to take this out on Thursday, and I really dont want to be out on this build for a month, and have to rezero. I got a few more months before my corn/soy gets planted, and then my long range season is pretty much done in the next few months.

 

[Kiba]

If you're a walk in, I bet S&B could fix it in 20 minutes for you if you called ahead, but you can also fix it on your own and save 2 hours of driving.

Let us know how it goes.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Ok I might have fixed it now. Again thanks.
The elevation knob does work now. However I am noticing that the clicks on the elevation don’t seem as positive/clicky than my Windage turrets. Maybe this is how it was before not sure.

 

[Kiba]

If you have both the 0.1 mil and 1.0 mil MTC clicks, then everything should be ok.

If the detent pins rotate when you install the knob the clicks can feel funny.

If it feels substantially different than the windage knob the detent pins might have rotated, pull the knob back off and check.

The pins have to be vertical when you push the knob back on and you can't rotate the knob at all when you reinstall it, it has to be pushed straight down.

I forgot to mention earlier it's best to install the knob on a full mil mark so the both detent pins engage the grooves on the knob as you slide it down, less chance of rotating a detent pin that way.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Ok I might have fixed it now. Again thanks.
The elevation knob does work now. However I am noticing that the clicks on the elevation don’t seem as positive/clicky than my Windage turrets. Maybe this is how it was before not sure.

So tried again and I can get the elevation knob to pop and the zero stop to work, however, now I am having issues getting the screws back in. There does not seem to be enough clearance space.

 

[Kiba]

Hold the locking collar down and very slightly lift the center knob, that will give you room to get the screws in.

Don't lift the center too much or you can disturb the detent pins.

 

[Tonsofguns]

I got it!!

Once I got it figured it it wasn’t too bad.

I confirmed that the reticle moves up and down
Confirmed my zero stop
Confirmed that the turret is locked in place upon pulling up

Now when I zero and want to move the turret, I unscrew the 2screws slightly, unlock it, and move to zero correct?

Thanks for all the help!!! Much appreciated!!

 

[Kiba]

Correct. You loosen the 2 unplugged setscrews, raise the locking collar, rotate the knob to zero, push the locking collar back down, and snug the 2 setscrews back up. When you do that entire procedure keep light downwards pressure on the center of the knob.

 

[Tonsofguns]

Kiba, again thanks!! You saved me many shooting sessions with this set up, and time for both me and Schmidt and bender.

 

[GunCalNutz]

Wow thanks for the great right up. I haven't tried it yet but I recall I had all sorts of issues due to doing something similar.
I thought I put it back together properly because I was able to hear clicks and turn it but the Lock function did not work for me.

I was planning to send it in to Jerry but was overly concerned on shipping time and most importantly package lost... Too many delays and lost these days.

Ill follow these instructions and see if I can get it back to functional state!

 

[Tonsofguns]

jerry is 30 minutes from my house, but like you, I didn't want my scope tied up for who knows how long.
follow those instructions, which are excellent, and once you get it figured it, you'll be able to take the turret on and back off fairly easily.

 

[GunCalNutz]

Any reason someone may know why my lock function is malfunctioning?
I hear clicks etc. Just the lock doesn't actually lock lol.
Only on the windage unit. It's like it's in the zeroing state always.

 

[GunCalNutz]

Figured it out.. Looks like the locking pins are all screwed up. Pressed in in wrong spots.. Presser too far now and therefore it is not catching when pulling lock Becuase the pins are not staying in the pins

 

[GunCalNutz]

*** Update - the reason the LOCK function was not working is that the Adhesive / Glue of the last ring is suppose to be fixed to the locking cap - this some how dislodged.

It is all fixed and perfect now!

 

[thechozen]

New to S&B and have no idea if this is normal. I think something is off.

I can see the top of the blue seal oring on the locking sleeve and the turret has up and down travel if you push on the top. Is that normal behavior?

 

[Krob95]

No. Call Jerry at S&B USA tomorrow and tell him what's up. He will have you send it back in I'm sure.

 

[thechozen]

No. Call Jerry at S&B USA tomorrow and tell him what's up. He will have you send it back in I'm sure.

Thanks

 

[ShtrRdy]

Thank you all for working through this. I have a set screw that the hex key hole is getting worn and I'd like to replace the set screw before it's a problem.