School me on a do all AR15

[Jackomason]

I dont know much about AR's but with the political climate changing I wouldn't mind having one. I'm fairly confident with their basic mechanics but real world applications are where things get fuzzy.

Use:
•shoot 5-600 yards max
•not concerned about CQBness
•primary use will be for skunks around the house
•would like it to be durable and able to bounce in the truck

Think ranch rifle as opposed to door kickers rifle.

I kinda like the idea of the BCM recce 16" upper but I dont know if that would be the best all round rifle. Any ideas? Any real world experience with that type of rifle? What kind of limitations would I be running into?

 

[jg6.5]

This same thing has been an internal hum-haw topic with myself the past few months:

-16" 1:7 4150CMV nitrided barrel (pick your contour, whatever floats your boat)
-NiB or nitride bolt carrier group
-Some type of MLOK free float handguard
-Good trigger (Geiselle, RISE, etc.)
-Flip up iron sights
-LPVO on QD mount (anything 1-6x or 1-8x from a reputable manufacturer)
-Sling with QD attachments

Depending on what you're trying to hit at 500-600 yards, you might need to do some soul searching or reloading to find an accurate load. QD mount for scope lets you shed the optic if you don't want or need to haul around the extra weight.

 

[Kamerad]

I dont know much about AR's but with the political climate changing I wouldn't mind having one. I'm fairly confident with their basic mechanics but real world applications are where things get fuzzy.

Use:
•shoot 5-600 yards max
•not concerned about CQBness
•primary use will be for skunks around the house
•would like it to be durable and able to bounce in the truck

Think ranch rifle as opposed to door kickers rifle.

I kinda like the idea of the BCM recce 16" upper but I dont know if that would be the best all round rifle. Any ideas? Any real world experience with that type of rifle? What kind of limitations would I be running into?

What’s your budget? Do you want to build/assemble, or an off the shelf ready to shoot rifle? Accuracy standard? Will you be using match, defensive, hunting or bulk ammo?

 

[Jackomason]

What’s your budget? Do you want to build/assemble, or an off the shelf ready to shoot rifle? Accuracy standard? Will you be using match, defensive, hunting or bulk ammo?

I'm thinking under $1000. The recce upper is $600 and an ok lower seems like $250~

I'd be hoping for 1 MOA. This is to fill any short comings of my bolt guns so fast follow up shots on coyotes etc.

5-600 yards would be on 66% ipsc and I'd probably keep coyotes at 400~

I'm fine building and I'd probably load for most my shooting.

 

[jg6.5]

So as opposed to a true "do all", this sounds like more of a "varmint AR that isn't necessarily dedicated its role" (if that makes sense)?

In that case, maybe think about an 18" barrel and ditch my original idea of QD LPVO and just stick a 2.5-10x or 3-12x on it and leave it. Either way, $1,000 for the rifle itself should be more than doable given current prices. Optic would be the biggest variable depending on what you wanted.

 

[M8541Reaper]

If I ever buy another AR, it would be pretty much what I already have:
LMT SLK8 (MRP) with 16" 1:7.5 SS barrel
Battlecomp Brake
Magpul MOE-K2 Grip
Raptor SL Ambi Charging Handle
Magpul BAD Lever
SOPMOD stock (if RDS) or Magpul CTR w/ RISR (if LPVO or Scope)
Magpul Pro BUIS
LaRue MBT

Optics: (one of the below)
Larue QD w/ NF ATACR 1-8 (LPVO)
Larue QD w/ NF ATACR 4-16x42 (Scope)
Larue QD w/ Aimpoint (RDS - either a T1, T2, or CompM5)

Mags:
30rd Mags: USGI Aluminum or Magpul Gen 3 window mags (doesn't matter)
20rd Mags: Aluminum w/ the upgraded followers (I prefer these to the Magpul 20's)

Sling:
TAB Gear Carbine Sling w/ QDs

The above (albeit with my MK6 3-18x optic) shoots predominately sub-MOA at 100 and 200, with my best group being .49" at 200yds with Defender 77gr SMKs the other day (total luck with that .49" group but 1.25-1.75" at 200 is normal). Ripped the scope off and used the T1 Micro out to 425yds with boring hits on full-sized steel (as expected). Used to be able to run it to 600 but the targets are gone. If you can't kill it within 400 with an AR topped with irons or a red dot, then there isn't a point in having it.

For most shooters, any half-ass quality AR (be it kitchen built or factory made) will get them out to 500yds on man-sized targets with 62gr shit ball ammo. They've been doing it for decades with boots in boot camp. Unless you're buying a $300 gun show AR-15, you won't have a problem reaching out to 600. If you aren't someone who takes the time to clean your shit and hates busting carbon, then go piston instead of direct impingement. That being said, you're only gaining a benefit with a piston if you're running full auto and/or suppressed.

End of the day, you can buy a complete quality system (no glass) that will outperform 90% of shooters out there for around $1500 or less, especially in the SH PX).

 

[DownhillFromHere]

You didn't mention a budget, but if you want to shoot 5-600 yards I seriously doubt the cheap S&W, Ruger, etc. models will give you much, if any, joy.

I'm not going to address build-your-own-from-pieces-parts or custom here - I don't know enough about that process. I'm talking buy-it-load-it-run-it factory options here.

If you have a top-rung budget, it's hard to beat JP Rifles models.

My personal favorite is not a player on the national stage, but is very well known and respected in central North Carolina: the various models from Barnes Precision Machine. Andrew's rifles aren't cheap. But every bit of the thing other than barrel blanks is machined right there in the BPM factory, down to the pins holding everything together. The blanks - I forget who he sources from - are machined on-site.

I had (since sold for a .223 bolt gun) a Barnes AR in the DMR configuration. It was a solid 1MOA @ 100 yards rifle with now-discontinued Hornady Steel Match 75gr BTHP ammo, reliable 2-2.5MOA rifle 300-500 meters. I wasn't handloading .223 at the time; I'm sure it would have done better with good ammo.

I bought that rifle used. About a hundred rounds in, it began occasionally locking open with one round left in the mag. Short story: I live 20 minutes from BPM's shop, and the company owner greeted me there, fiddled with the mag latch for maybe 10 seconds, and said there was a bit of something in the latch's spring well, showing me how the latch had some slop in it. He disappeared with it for maybe five minutes, gave it back to me, and it never, ever had any kind of malfunction for the couple of thousand rounds I put through it before trading it.

That crew knows ARs - both standard and large frame. They do some interesting things for the military (especially since Fort Bragg is just over an hour away). Any time I had a question - this was my first decent AR ever - I emailed the company "info" account and had an answer back from the boss within a day.

Since I started this, you specified a budget of $1000. You can get a Barnes basic rifle for that amount. The fully-featured ones are double that. I don't know what the new ones actually sell for (as compared to the prices on their web site). Yeah, you can build your own from pieces parts cheaper, at the potential "cost" of a steep learning curve figuring out why you can't get decent groups out of it.

If you want to shoot 400-yard coyotes, my $0.02 on optics would be something in the 3-15x range. I had a 2.5-10x gen-1 Vortex Viper PST on mine, and, while it was adequate (and light), were I to do it again I'd use a 3-15x44 gen-2 Viper PST (which I use on one of my .22s). It's still reasonably light - and Barnes rifles are NOT featherweights anyway.

Oh, and if you buy bulk ammo - the stuff that's advertised "cheap" all the time - forget about MOA with it. It's good for plinking, but not much else. You'll want a 1:7 or 1:8 twist barrel for decent 69-77gr match bullets.

Good luck!

 

[hink001]

If you're wanting range past 400 yards then an 18" or 20" barrel might be the way to go. I had a DD V11 Pro that I picked up for 1100 that somehow became my long range ar before I sold it. I was going to throw on a pinned 14.7" PSA pinned upper and a red dot for a cqb rifle and then the 18" upper would have been for longer range precision shooting. Lowers are still silly cheap right now and you could always pick up a couple stripped lowers for less than $50 a pop and build them up later.

 

[Lowlight]

Do all AR15,

JP SCR11 in 224V

enough said

 

[HolyCity73]

Do all AR15,

JP SCR11 in 224V

enough said

Cue the arguments!
Popcorn. Please...

 

[Centuriator]

That's Frank's "skunk rifle." He blows them away at 600 yards, never a concern about smelling skunky.

 

[Lowlight]

A proven performer for guys who only see validation in a competition setting

 

[Kamerad]

https://www.brownells.com/firearms/rifles/semi-auto/ar-15-oem-rifle-223-wylde-18-stainless-prod104757.aspx?avs|Manufacturer_1=AERO+PRECISION

Aero Precision makes a solid rifle. Many of their options have nitride barrels. This option is 18” stainless, and all you need to add is a buttstock, handguard, and sights/optics to have a functioning rifle. All for under $900. Sling, mags, ammo, bottle opener or whatever you deem necessary. I like slings on all of my long guns.

Edited for spelling.

 

[Downtown]

The Brownells deal is certainly a good one, but it's nice to be able to choose your trigger. I believe that the trigger makes a huge difference and there are many very nice ones to choose from. I ran a buddy's carbine this afternoon with a regular mil-spec type trigger and was reminded of how spoiled I've become with aftermarket triggers.

 

[Foxtrot2November]

build one!

 

[Jackomason]

So as opposed to a true "do all", this sounds like more of a "varmint AR that isn't necessarily dedicated its role" (if that makes sense)?

Well I dont really need another heavy rifle. It would be a used to kill varmint though. So far I've killed 30 skunks at my place in the last year or so. Ranges have been from point blank (5ft+/-) to 60 yards. All but one were with a .22 lr.

Do all AR15,

JP SCR11 in 224V

enough said

I dont disagree but if I had that money I'd be buying another bolt gun! And I just finished my origin 224v so I'd like something fairly standard and cheap to shoot. I was definitely thinking around or below $1k and i know I could be asking too much but that's why I'm asking.

It may work well for me to run two different optics so I can fill the need for an around the house gun and a good 1-6(or 8) for a loner/backup coyote gun. Dont think I need another long range rig but I know if I cant shoot 500 yards Itll never get used.

 

[TheGerman]

 

[Kamerad]

The Brownells deal is certainly a good one, but it's nice to be able to choose your trigger. I believe that the trigger makes a huge difference and there are many very nice ones to choose from. I ran a buddy's carbine this afternoon with a regular mil-spec type trigger and was reminded of how spoiled I've become with aftermarket triggers.

Agreed. There’s no reason that can’t be replaced. I have the nitride barreled 16”, and eventually put a Geissele SD-C trigger in. Much better.

 

[OEFDom]

I dont know much about AR's but with the political climate changing I wouldn't mind having one. I'm fairly confident with their basic mechanics but real world applications are where things get fuzzy.

Use:
•shoot 5-600 yards max
•not concerned about CQBness
•primary use will be for skunks around the house
•would like it to be durable and able to bounce in the truck

Think ranch rifle as opposed to door kickers rifle.

I kinda like the idea of the BCM recce 16" upper but I dont know if that would be the best all round rifle. Any ideas? Any real world experience with that type of rifle? What kind of limitations would I be running into?

 

[OEFDom]

My 2 cents, build one brother. You said you weren't to familiar with them but I can assure you, if you have any mechanical sense at all and can follow instructions maybe via YouTube. Build it. Youll save money down the road and can make it the way you like.

So many options to choose from, wicked muzzle brakes, super efficient triggers. I'd look at Larue trigger and a ballistic advantage or criterion barrel or something. Plenty of good choices. Depends on your budget.

If you start shooting alot you'll say, man I should have done this or that instead of stock. Again depends on budget. Building it is not hard and just adds a stripe to your belt.

If you did want a stock rifle, id recommend Palmetto State armory. I have a couple rifles from them. Proven reputation and very affordable. Surprisingly affordable.

Also if you wanna kill shit effectively out to 600 yards, look at Ar10 chambered in 308 or 6.5 creedmoor. 223 looses alot of energy out to that range.

 

[Ledzep]

PSA 16" 5.56 NATO 1/7 Mid-Length Nitride 15" Lightweight M-Lok MOE EPT Rifle Kit

Barrel: 16" 4150V Chrome Moly Vanadium steel Freedom barrel, chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1:7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a Mid-length gas system. The barrel is finished with a .7

palmettostatearmory.com

 

[nn8734]

I dont know much about AR's but with the political climate changing I wouldn't mind having one. I'm fairly confident with their basic mechanics but real world applications are where things get fuzzy.

Use:
•shoot 5-600 yards max
•not concerned about CQBness
•primary use will be for skunks around the house
•would like it to be durable and able to bounce in the truck

Think ranch rifle as opposed to door kickers rifle.

I kinda like the idea of the BCM recce 16" upper but I dont know if that would be the best all round rifle. Any ideas? Any real world experience with that type of rifle? What kind of limitations would I be running into?

Consider something along the lines of a Socom URGI or M4A1 Block II. 14.5-16” chrome line 1:7 rht barrel, match trigger of your choice (I run CMC super match) high quality charging handle of your choice (I like the radian raptor) and quality BCG. Attach a Muzzle device of your choice. I like chrome lined barrels for hard use, barrel life and ease of maintenance (I clean it every 300 rounds or so). Stainless is more accurate but doesn’t last as long and requires more cleaning.

For optics I like and use a combo consisting of a NF 2.5-10x24 Mil/Mil Mil-R and an Aimpoint T1 in a larue QD 45’degree offset mount.

The nightforce is zeroed for 200 yards and the aimpoint 36 yards. I have no problems hitting 8” discs at 300 (poa/poi using the aimpoint) and 200-600 using the NF dialing elevation and holding wind...I run black hills 77g smk 5.56 NATO and Hornady Superformance 75g 5.56 NATO.

If 5.56 isn’t your thing but want to keep with the small frame AR, consider 6.8 SPC, 6.5 Grendel or .224 Valkrye.

 

[jcam]

If I had to do this AR thing all over again I would get a factory SBR then just buy a precision upper for use when needed. I would also make sure to upgrade to a two stage trigger. All I have now are AR’s with my name engraved on the lowers, no resale value.

 

[diggler1833]

I run a DDM4V7 with a 1-4 Trijicon Accupower on it. It is my idea of a do-all rifle like the OP is inquiring about. It shoots about 1.5 MOA with XM193, is pretty light and handy with the padded VTAC sling I run it with.

Makes for easy carry when I'm driving around the ranch on my ATV or UTV.

Also have a FN DMR II with 1-8 XTR II that fills this role well.

 

[TheGerman]

PSA 16" 5.56 NATO 1/7 Mid-Length Nitride 15" Lightweight M-Lok MOE EPT Rifle Kit

Barrel: 16" 4150V Chrome Moly Vanadium steel Freedom barrel, chambered in 5.56 NATO, with a 1:7 twist, M4 barrel extension, and a Mid-length gas system. The barrel is finished with a .7

palmettostatearmory.com

Oh now you've done it.

 

[Ledzep]

I love to hate on cheap shit just as much as the next guy, but for a truck gun you don't have to give a flying fuck about... Just sayin'. I've been baited into buying a couple of them now and haven't been disappointed.

 

[Jackomason]

I'll probably only put one together for the time being. So I'll want something pretty robust. That's why I lean towards BCM, not that I could tell the difference but it sounds like QC and build quality are pretty good.

It doesnt need to be Gucci though.

 

[newguy2k3v2]

For me a do all would be 14.5-16" with a 1-6/8 or 2-10ish scope. 5.56 if you want cheap, plentiful ammo and mags. 6.8spc or 6.5 grendel if ammo cost isn't a concern but energy and terminal performance is.

 

[jg6.5]

Well I dont really need another heavy rifle. It would be a used to kill varmint though. So far I've killed 30 skunks at my place in the last year or so. Ranges have been from point blank (5ft+/-) to 60 yards. All but one were with a .22 lr.

That's along the lines of what I was thinking, sorry - wasn't intending to suggest a heavier barrel or anything. 18" for a little extra speed, but keep it at a lighter profile so it's not a truck axle.

 

[Centuriator]

Here's what you need to do all you need to do with an AR-15.

COLT M4 SOCOM. Surefire DF light. Eotech with 3x Mag and....USMC bayonet.

 

[HolyCity73]

Here's what you need to do all you need to do with an AR-15.

COLT M4 SOCOM. Surefire DF light. Eotech with 3x Mag and....USMC bayonet.

View attachment 7179624

I’m sorry. You’ll need to add at least three more pieces of flare to your rifle.
?

 

[Jackomason]

I’m sorry. You’ll need to add at least three more pieces of flare to your rifle.
?

I got watching some videos on ARs and I had to stop. So much tacticool. One guy was telling me what to put on my AR and was dressed up as an operator the whole time.... literally why I haven't bought an AR yet.

 

[Rerun7]

Build one. I’ve run through a few configurations to find a great do all and here’s where I’ve landed so far, really happy with it and it won’t break the bank.

- Stripped lower and lpk of your choice as long as it is from a quality manufacturer.

- geisselle ssa-e

- bcm blem upper, bolt/carrier, gas block, charging handle

- Rainer 16” lightweight match barrel - midlength

- BCM 13” KMR handguard

- Razor gen ii-e 1-6 with JM-1 reticle in a NF ultra light mount

- pick the stock, grip and sling you like

Weighs less than 8lbs and easily rings steel at 500. I started out buying complete uppers but never found something that was really great without too much compromise in some area (weight, accuracy, reliability, etc). Just use quality components and build exactly what you want.

 

[tuckybill]

I'll play. Go to Compass lake and get a 18" mk12 barrel by Douglas. 1.8 twist. CLE match chamber. There is your accuracy. Now go Aero and get blem upper/lower. Toolcraft bolt. Larue MBT2 trigger. Parts kits by Aero also. Stock it to your choice. taa daaaa! You got it! For under a grand too if you shop a bit or wait till black Friday.

 

[loveha]

It's sale season, start looking at things you would like, comes on sale, buy it. Build it. Be happier over something prebuilt.

 

[striped1]

you need the following:
a good barrel - 16" don't screw around with pin and welded 14.5" etc.
a good trigger. For what you are doing, I would look first at the Larue MBT
a free floated handguard. I am partial to the SLR but there are plenty of good ones out there. Geissele is another one to check out.
a good 1-6x or 1-8x optic. Vortex has some

You werent' off on your idea of BCM. They are shooters.

There is very little variation in the standard upper and lower receivers.

 

[sea2summit]

My 2 cents, build one brother. You said you weren't to familiar with them but I can assure you, if you have any mechanical sense at all and can follow instructions maybe via YouTube. Build it. Youll save money down the road and can make it the way you like.

Horrible advice. Here’s the problem. You’re going to build one, decide to change the trigger out for some reason. Well you can’t just let that trigger lay on the bench so you build another one. Then you swap out the gas block for an adjustable and the old gas block is sitting there on your bench...

 

[PBWalsh]

a good barrel - 16" don't screw around with pin and welded 14.5" etc.

What makes you say that? Wondering as my current build is to have a 13.8 with a pinned SF Warcomp.

 

[loveha]

I'm not striped1, but why rob your self of barrel length and lose power?

I would rather have a 14.5" P&W over that 13.8". You still need to be 16" so why lose velocity?

I don't understand this fascination with short barrels and long brakes and flash hiders.

 

[OEFDom]

Horrible advice. Here’s the problem. You’re going to build one, decide to change the trigger out for some reason. Well you can’t just let that trigger lay on the bench so you build another one. Then you swap out the gas block for an adjustable and the old gas block is sitting there on your bench...

Would you not decide to change the trigger on a rifle you buy that's stock? Why not buy a good trigger from the get go. I wish I could go back and custom build all of mine the way I wanted.

What ended up happening was Ill a buy a dpms stock rifle. Well damn now I want a MBT2 trigger on it.. now I want a better stock and grip for it.. a new brake.. if I would have just done that from the start, I would have a pile of shit stocks and triggers sitting in my garage right now.

 

[sea2summit]

Would you not decide to change the trigger on a rifle you buy that's stock? Why not but a good trigger from the get go.

Changing out a factory rifles trigger is less of a risk because you don’t understand how easy it is to just build another one so the excuse isn’t strong enough to justify a whole new rifle...theoretically.

 

[PBWalsh]

@loveha

My reasoning was to get right at the 16" limit. A standard 16" barrel with even an A2 flash hider is around 17". A SF device is 2.24" putting the barrel a hair over 18".

Besides the minuscule velocity decrease, I don't see the negatives.

 

[OEFDom]

Changing out a factory rifles trigger is less of a risk because you don’t understand how easy it is to just build another one so the excuse isn’t strong enough to justify a whole new rifle...theoretically.

I disagree bro, building the lower was so surprisingly easy. Putting the little spring on the ejection port cover was more tricky than installing the trigger. Two pins on trigger.

The only one I found to be more difficult was the 50 bmg ar lower build. The spring on that is powerful.

 

[sea2summit]

I disagree bro, building the lower was so surprisingly easy. Putting the little spring on the ejection port cover was more tricky than installing the trigger. Two pins on trigger.

The only one I found to be more difficult was the 50 bmg ar lower build. The spring on that is powerful.

Who’s bad at sarcasm here, you or me?

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Who’s bad at sarcasm here, you or me?

You both suck at it. Its painful to watch!

 

[TonyTheTiger]

Besides the minuscule velocity decrease, I don't see the negatives.

I've got a 13.7" and a 14.5" P&W, the real negative is it puts a damper on my muzzle brake ADHD. Other than that they do the same thing a 16" does inside 500yds, which is probably 99.97% of all AR use.

 

[The DFC]

There's so many. I like your BCM idea-good quality Mil-Spec type. I'd spend a little more and get a BCM lower as well-or get a complete rifle with the barrel profile you like. My only beef with BCM is I've never gotten tremendous accuracy out of them. Mine are on the 1.5-2moa level-but consistently so. My KACs-all shooters. LMTs-all shooters. Basically my BCMs are Mil-Spec accuracy as well ?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

I've got two that should handle many varieties of skunks out to 600yd.

Starting with the Lower. I have three of them, identically configured. The same mods are awaiting delivery of the PA-10 Lower. All of my Lowers have/will have the BAD-like levers and two stage match triggers; I consider this commonality to be a convenient plus.

PSA PA-15 Complete Classic Lower; a very good starting point
PSA Nickel Boron Two Stage Trigger; absolutely essential to better marksmanship.
AR Stoner Extended Bolt Catch; a genuine convenience during reloads.
Missouri Tactical Products LLC M27/HK416 Style Recoil Pad, I like it.

Two Uppers.

AR Stoner 16" M-Lok 1:7" Upper, for them run of the mill skunks. Think: IMI 77gr Razor Core

or;

AR Stoner 20" 6.5 Grendel; for them bigger skunks. It handles the Wolf 100gr Military Classic steelcase about how you'd expect from steelcase. Its 24" bigger brother shoots 95gr V-Max sub MOA at 100yd, but I haven't tried that yet in the 20", that's for next time out. I think it's going to be exceptional with 120gr Fed Fusion MSR, if it ever comes back in stock.

I have all these choices, I gave them all their first shakedowns within this past week, and I pronounce them "skunk ready".

They are going to get better with age and load development.

Greg

 

[Docsherm]

Do all AR15,

JP SCR11 in 224V

enough said

Trolling or joking?

Or are you actually serious?

 

[striped1]

What makes you say that? Wondering as my current build is to have a 13.8 with a pinned SF Warcomp.

For me, it is the pin and weld hassle. I have registered SBRs and a pistol brace build so I don't have to pin and weld. I like to tinker with gas blocks, muzzle brakes and handguards. It is a PIA to have to mess with a pinned and welded brake for the nominal gain in shorter overall length.

For an do it all type build, I would keep it simple and go with a 16" barrel. Stay away from the M4gery type thing.

As has been said above, they aren't hard to build, but they also aren't hard to make run poorly too with the wrong parts or chasing the ragged edge of lighter bolt carriers, springs and adjustable gas systems, etc.

Keep your first one simple. It's a truck gun. It will still shoot but then use the knowledge gained with the experience of the first one guide you in building or spec'ing your next one.