school me on the .243

#51
Re: school me on the .243

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">

Well Charlie, I shoot out in the windy west and I use a 243 every weekend at the 500, 600, 1K <span style="font-weight: bold">F-Class matches</span>. I'm up to 2500 rounds and just shot a 586 at a 600 yard match at Ben Avery. Furthermore, my son and I shoot same rifle. So, we put 140 rounds through it in one match and I don't clean in for at least 2 matches. Both he and I continue to shoot personal best scores. I think a 580+ on an <span style="font-weight: bold">F-Class</span> target indicates the barrel is still shooting under 1/2 MOA: not burned out by my standards and I'm competing for the win on a regular basis.

Some "knowledgeable" shooters told me I was only gonna get 1000-1200 rounds out of my barrel. Well, I continue kicking their butts with my "burned-out" barrel and the round count continues higher.
smile.gif
Wind has such a huge impact on long range shooting: I don't think you need any better than a 1/2 MOA rifle to win. Benchrest shooters throw their barrels out after 1000 rounds. But their game is way different than tactical or even F-Class.

Oh, and I'm not pushing my 243 "hard to keep up with the 260." 2930FPS with 39.0 grains of H4350.

Next time I rebarrel, plan on getting it nitrided. Heard from plenty of folks now that it extends the barrel life quite a bit. I hoping for $60 extra, that treatment will get me closer to 4,000 rounds of barrel life....on a 243. </div></div>



<span style="font-weight: bold"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Disasterpath</div><div class="ubbcode-body">3000 rounds out of a .243? What do you shoot 1 round a day? If youre shooting in match conditions, say with strings of fire up to ten rounds in quick succession, there is no way in hell you will get to 3000. If youre shooting F-CLASS with 20 minute par times then maybe. </div></div></span>

Shoot some 7+ shot strings in under a 90 seconds every weekend and post your findings. OP is shooting tac matches not f class.
wink.gif
 
#52
Re: school me on the .243

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">264charlie,

Interesting observations. I agree with almost all that you said, but after pondering your tome, I have several questions:

1) How is the .260 Rem "more complicated" to reload than a 243 Win?

2) Has it escaped your notice that Berger also makes a 6.5 mm 140 LRBT non-VLD bullet. It will also only drift 1.9 mils @ 1000 yds in a 10 MPH wind. And it's not as persnickety to reload as the VLD clan can be.

3) In the 7mm clan, no 7mm-08...Hmmmm a 162 gr A-Max @ 2725 FPS drifts 2.0 Mils @ 1000 YDS in a 10 mph wind. And will get 3000 round plus before needing a new barrel. You don't need a 7mm magnum to get the full benefit of High BC 284 bullets.

None of my questions should be taken as a criticism of your excellent post. I just think you are missing a few items, and just curious why.

Thanks,

Bob



</div></div>

1) The .260 tends to be a bit more sensitive than the .243 to get to shoot very well. Just my experience with the 6.5s

2) Agreed the 140BT is good option... I was just saying if you want to rifle to really out perform the 243 you need to shoot the VLDs. It's each shooters choice with barrel life, wind performance, recoil and cost. Note I shoot a 6.5 because I shoot a VLD and a rifle with a brake.

3) 7 -08 is a good option if barrel life is your #1 option. Personally think the recoil is a bit much for a comp rifle but I should include it.
 
#53
Re: school me on the .243

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Scooter-PIE</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264Charlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> I asked what people are considering match accuracy? How is that a know it all?

I am saying a 243 with 2000 rounds fired in match conditions with match loads will not be competitive in the matches held out west. To be competitive you need a gun (and shooter) that can hold at least 1/2MOA of a bipod. Most of the 243 driven hard to keep up with the 260s are getting flyers at 1200 -1500.

Oh, I'm not driving my 243 hard at all: 2930 fps with 39gr H4350. So, that's not true either.
</div></div>

Well Charlie, I shoot out in the windy west and I use a 243 every weekend at the 500, 600, 1K F-Class matches. I'm up to 2500 rounds and just shot a 586 at a 600 yard match at Ben Avery. Furthermore, my son and I shoot same rifle. So, we put 140 rounds through it in one match and I don't clean in for at least 2 matches. Both he and I continue to shoot personal best scores. I think a 580+ on an F-Class target indicates the barrel is still shooting under 1/2 MOA: not burned out by my standards and I'm competing for the win on a regular basis.

Some "knowledgeable" shooters told me I was only gonna get 1000-1200 rounds out of my barrel. Well, I continue kicking their butts with my "burned-out" barrel and the round count continues higher.
smile.gif
Wind has such a huge impact on long range shooting: I don't think you need any better than a 1/2 MOA rifle to win. Benchrest shooters throw their barrels out after 1000 rounds. But their game is way different than tactical or even F-Class.

Oh, and I'm not pushing my 243 "hard to keep up with the 260." 2930FPS with 39.0 grains of H4350.

Next time I rebarrel, plan on getting it nitrided. Heard from plenty of folks now that it extends the barrel life quite a bit. I hoping for $60 extra, that treatment will get me closer to 4,000 rounds of barrel life....on a 243. </div></div>

I think you proved my point...

1. you are shooting F-class. My post was for practical Precision Comp rifle, they tend to shoot much faster strings of fire than F-class.

2. You are not driving the 243 fast.

3. 1/2 MOA of a BR is much different that 1/2 MOA of a folding bipod and tactical style rear bag.
 
#56
Re: school me on the .243

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Seth8541</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264Charlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What is match accuracy to you? I never never seen a match won by a 243 or 260 with over 2000 rounds.

But hey please guys please shoot them to 3k on matches I am at. </div></div>

Another know it all. Your saying a 243 with over 2000 rounds on the barrel is not accurate? Now that is funny. I have 1800 on mine right now and it still shoots like the day I got it.

Please stop commenting like you know what your talking about. </div></div>

Are you sure "Charlies" the know it all? What are you......freakin bored and feel like pickin a fight? Do us all a favor and go back to watching "Shooter" and petting your rifle with grand thoughts of glory and stay the hell out of theconversation.

Charlie is posting good info based on our experiences shooting fast paced tactical precision rifle comps montly. Keep in mind that most of the competators we shoot with are using .243 .260 and 6.5' s with the very reults he is posting here.

That's my input to this post. This is a dead end argument. </div></div>

Thats cute Seth. Stick your nose in deeper. I said I have a high shot 243 with 1800 rounds on it right now and it shoots like the day I got it. I take it hunting "out west" and all over the country. I shoot it suppressed, not suppressed in the cold and heat. Its has never failed me and when I am still shooting dime size groups at 100 yards with my "worn out barrel" I walk away with a smile. I don't think you can come on here and claim a 243 will shoot poorly after 3k rounds when it clearly can go over that and shoot to most match standards.

I rest my case.
 
#57
Re: school me on the .243

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264Charlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">264charlie,

Interesting observations. I agree with almost all that you said, but after pondering your tome, I have several questions:

1) How is the .260 Rem "more complicated" to reload than a 243 Win?

2) Has it escaped your notice that Berger also makes a 6.5 mm 140 LRBT non-VLD bullet. It will also only drift 1.9 mils @ 1000 yds in a 10 MPH wind. And it's not as persnickety to reload as the VLD clan can be.

3) In the 7mm clan, no 7mm-08...Hmmmm a 162 gr A-Max @ 2725 FPS drifts 2.0 Mils @ 1000 YDS in a 10 mph wind. And will get 3000 round plus before needing a new barrel. You don't need a 7mm magnum to get the full benefit of High BC 284 bullets.

None of my questions should be taken as a criticism of your excellent post. I just think you are missing a few items, and just curious why.

Thanks,

Bob



</div></div>

1) The .260 tends to be a bit more sensitive than the .243 to get to shoot very well. Just my experience with the 6.5s

2) Agreed the 140BT is good option... I was just saying if you want to rifle to really out perform the 243 you need to shoot the VLDs. It's each shooters choice with barrel life, wind performance, recoil and cost. Note I shoot a 6.5 because I shoot a VLD and a rifle with a brake.

3) 7 -08 is a good option if barrel life is your #1 option. Personally think the recoil is a bit much for a comp rifle but I should include it. </div></div>

Note for the tender feelings crowd, I am NOT picking a fight.

I am curious as to why the 260 is harder to get to shoot right? Your going back and forth on your opinion as to why he should "get a 260 over a 243 then back to well 260 is more sensitive to get to shooting right". Why all the flip flop? I think both are excellent calibers.

If barrel life is a concern stay with 260. If you want to go all out get a 243 and shoot the 115 DTAC's. Both excellent calibers and fun in any variation of setup. I still vote for the 243 as its an all around performer. Also just to throw this in, very quite when a suppressor is installed.
wink.gif
 
#58
Re: school me on the .243

My 243 only lasted 1600ish rounds. I was standing on it though, running 3150 with a 115. Shot more than one match at tacpro with it, and they do like the heavy strings of fire. Mike I'm not sure what other matches your shooting but RO is not known for barrel burning stages. At least not compared to the other TX matches. Neither the 260 nor the 243 are hard to load for. Both will win matches and in the end it will always boil down to the trigger puller.
 
#59
Re: school me on the .243

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: trigger time</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Mike I'm not sure what other matches your shooting but RO is not known for barrel burning stages. At least not compared to the other TX matches.</div></div>

I wasn't trying to imply that RO's was the "fastest", only that they definitely weren't F-class style 1 shot and then take time off..

At this last bash we did have 20 rounds in the length of time it takes for the mover to go across. That will get a barrel hot. 5 shots in 30 seconds, Moving Chaos = 10 shots in <1 min., etc. Sure, they're not the fastest or hardest, but they will heat the barrel up.
There have been more than one time my barrel was way too hot to touch after a stage at RO.
 
#61
Re: school me on the .243

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 264Charlie</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: BobinNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">264charlie,

Interesting observations. I agree with almost all that you said, but after pondering your tome, I have several questions:

1) How is the .260 Rem "more complicated" to reload than a 243 Win?

2) Has it escaped your notice that Berger also makes a 6.5 mm 140 LRBT non-VLD bullet. It will also only drift 1.9 mils @ 1000 yds in a 10 MPH wind. And it's not as persnickety to reload as the VLD clan can be.

3) In the 7mm clan, no 7mm-08...Hmmmm a 162 gr A-Max @ 2725 FPS drifts 2.0 Mils @ 1000 YDS in a 10 mph wind. And will get 3000 round plus before needing a new barrel. You don't need a 7mm magnum to get the full benefit of High BC 284 bullets.

None of my questions should be taken as a criticism of your excellent post. I just think you are missing a few items, and just curious why.

Thanks,

Bob



</div></div>

1) The .260 tends to be a bit more sensitive than the .243 to get to shoot very well. Just my experience with the 6.5s

2) Agreed the 140BT is good option... I was just saying if you want to rifle to really out perform the 243 you need to shoot the VLDs. It's each shooters choice with barrel life, wind performance, recoil and cost. Note I shoot a 6.5 because I shoot a VLD and a rifle with a brake.

3) 7 -08 is a good option if barrel life is your #1 option. Personally think the recoil is a bit much for a comp rifle but I should include it. </div></div>

Note for the tender feelings crowd, I am NOT picking a fight.

I am curious as to why the 260 is harder to get to shoot right? Your going back and forth on your opinion as to why he should "get a 260 over a 243 then back to well 260 is more sensitive to get to shooting right". Why all the flip flop? I think both are excellent calibers.

If barrel life is a concern stay with 260. If you want to go all out get a 243 and shoot the 115 DTAC's. Both excellent calibers and fun in any variation of setup. I still vote for the 243 as its an all around performer. Also just to throw this in, very quite when a suppressor is installed.
wink.gif
</div></div>

If you read my first post I recommend a 243. I said I went with a 6.5 because I was willing to pay and deal with the hassle of getting the JLK or Hoovers for the extra wind performance. As for the 260 most of the guys I shoot with have had work harder time than the 243 guys to find a load that shots well. Just what I have noticed. I am big 243 fan and think it is hard to beat for most shooters and am building a 6superLR mostly because I like to play around a shoot something different.

I was planning on shooting a 6mm for most local matches but ended up ordering a 223 bolt because most of the local matches are inside six and I don't want the recoil of the 6mm or 6.5 (with brake).

I think they all have + and - it all comes down to what is important to you as a shooter. Me personally I don't like shooting with a brake but like as little recoil as possible. I went with the 6.5 because of the wind performance for the "big matches" and will deal with the brake. Barrel life is not really a concern for me.

I am not taking any of this as a fight just a discussion. We might not always agree or things might come across wrong in the written form... I do most of this from an iPad and mistype things all the time.
 
#62
Re: school me on the .243

Am I missing something with a 6mm brake? My 243 without a brake has virtually no recoil. With a brake I could only imagine you could spot your own hits at 300yds.
 
#64
Re: school me on the .243

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Ouch!!</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Am I missing something with a 6mm brake? My 243 without a brake has virtually no recoil. With a brake I could only imagine you could spot your own hits at 300yds.</div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you mean, the recoil of a 6 or 6.5mm?

They're both incredibly mild??</div></div>

6 or a 6.5 with a brake... I want to spot my hits at 300
smile.gif
 
#67
Re: school me on the .243

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bevan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What do you mean, the recoil of a 6 or 6.5mm?

They're both incredibly mild?? </div></div>

A braked 6mm is a sweet thing! Heck,I have brakes on my PCP air rifles,LOL
 
#72
Re: school me on the .243

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LOBO</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's the heaviest bullet that can be used in a 1/9 twist .243? </div></div>

95s definitely and 100-105s in some guns. I would load 95s and be done with it in a 1:9
 
#73
Re: school me on the .243

My 9 1/8 twist shoots 100 Gr. Sierra Gamekings very well so I wouldn't think you'd have a problem with 100-105 grainers. I'll be trying the 105 A-maxes soon though.
 
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