Gunsmithing School me on trigger hangers

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I've been reading a lot about triggers and how some need to have the proper hanger installed in order to work correctly.

The few actions that I've owned only have holes for dowel pins to hold the trigger on place, no hanger.

One is a Surgeon, one a Vudoo, and previously a Nucleus.

I googled "Trigger Hanger" and now notice that none of my actions used one.

Are there only certain actions that use them?

Or do you need to specify when placing an order for an action?

What is the benefit of a trigger hangers over just the dowel pins?

 

[diverdon]

I'm going to look forward to the answer to this because I always thought that the dowel pins and their respective holes were the trigger hanger.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

I thought that too until I found pictures of trigger hangers on the interwebs.

 

[cattleman99]

Actions either utilize them or don’t. A couple brands that do are Kelbly and Impact. The trigger hanger allows the shooter to both easily swap trigger using one or two screws rather than driving pins in and out. It also assists with trigger timing to your action - as some manufacturers make them in different sizes.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Thanks Christian.

Are the actions that use them designed so that the trigger is in the same spot as it would be as an action without hangers?

 

[SD Carpenter]

No it hangs a little lower so the stock would need a little material removed, except for certain chassis's that have room or: my mpa chassis got my kelblys fine.

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

Ok, so another question.

If some actions use them to be timed correctly to the trigger, are actions that don't use them lacking anything as far as timing goes?

Or is it negligible enough to not worry about it?

 

[cattleman99]

Ok, so another question.

If some actions use them to be timed correctly to the trigger, are actions that don't use them lacking anything as far as timing goes?

Or is it negligible enough to not worry about it?

Negligible. If you have a uneven or choppy bolt lift and obvious firing pin fall timing issues, then some folks can time your triggers to your action. It’s cheap though

 

[Edds]

I don't think there is a consensus on how a trigger should be timed. I just timed a Model 7 action with a Jewell trigger to be 100% cock on open. It wasn't difficult but I had to do several things to make it work. I had to slightly modify the V cocking notch in the bolt body, shorten the firing pin, and modify the cocking piece and upper trigger sear. In some instances you would need to move the bolt handle.

 

[Ranger188]

Trigger hangers are used in Benchrest rifle more cause you might buy a blank custom stock
that has to be inletted for specific actions, so depth might become in issue.
Most "tactical" actions are specific to an action and fitting not so much a problem.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Anyone running a Kelblys in a X Ray or Whiskey 3?

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

I don't think there is a consensus on how a trigger should be timed. I just timed a Model 7 action with a Jewell trigger to be 100% cock on open. It wasn't difficult but I had to do several things to make it work. I had to slightly modify the V cocking notch in the bolt body, shorten the firing pin, and modify the cocking piece and upper trigger sear. In some instances you would need to move the bolt handle.

That makes no sense to me. All are 100% cock on open.

 

[Edds]

That makes no sense to me. All are 100% cock on open.

I'm surprised you think that.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

I'm surprised you think that.

If they don't cock on opening then you have a club in your hand. Are you talking about eliminating cock on closing or eliminating the possibility the bolt needs to move slightly to the rear allowing the trigger to reset?

 

[Edds]

If they don't cock on opening then you have a club in your hand. Are you talking about eliminating cock on closing or eliminating the possibility the bolt needs to move slightly to the rear allowing the trigger to reset?

I'm talking about eliminating cock on closing.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

That makes sense but unless it's severe I wouldn't change it. More travel means more energy. The negative affect can be so subtle it won't be obvious but it's still there. Hangers started on BR actions. They can and are used to tune for accuracy. Firing pin weights and spring are also changed to tune actions.

 

[LRI]

Where this actually started:

It began in the BR community. It's very typical for an action to be glued into a rifle stock permanently on a bench rest rifle. Trigger wells get removed with two small screws, usually wood type or if the smith takes the time to install threaded inserts into the stock, machine screws are used.

So, pull the guard, take the two little 6-32's out of the hanger and remove the trigger assembly for service. It's literally that simple. I've built a number of these rifles over the years and I've never personally witnessed any form of accuracy improvement because of them. It's merely an adaptation to fit a very particular application. It's cascaded into "regular guns" for some reason. Likely because someone saw it, though it was cool, and wanted it. Using variations to alter fire control timing could work I guess, but its a bandaid fix to a larger problem that lies squarely in the lap of either the action maker or the trigger company. Nudging forward or backwards with offset pinholes isn't exactly a standard.


C.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

I guess you had to be there.

 

[LRI]

I guess you had to be there.

Dave if I'm wrong on this feel free to school me. I'm just regurgitating what I was told by two folks I used to work reasonably close with. G. Harris and J. Borden.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

We're talking about getting the ultimate in accuracy from an action. Jim B asks that you send him the trigger you're going to use so he can match the trigger location to action. Talk to Dwight Scott about all the work that goes into tuning up the ignition system in a BAT action. As precise and well built as those actions are, each is an individual and benefit from a little TLC. Same thing with Remington's or any commercial action. They can benefit from timing the sear engagement location, pin weight and spring rate. One size doesn't fit all. There's always room for improvement. I've been wrestling with a well known custom action. 5% misfires. That's 1 out of 20. Accuracy issues also. Can't get any help from the manufacturer. So I'm in the remodeling business. I may have to install a trigger hanger to fix the problem.

 

[Edds]

That makes sense but unless it's severe I wouldn't change it. More travel means more energy. The negative affect can be so subtle it won't be obvious but it's still there. Hangers started on BR actions. They can and are used to tune for accuracy. Firing pin weights and spring are also changed to tune actions.

Where do you draw the line between severe and not severe?

Adequate firing pin travel should be considered and maintained during the process.

 

[DAVETOOLEY]

Where do you draw the line between severe and not severe?

Adequate firing pin travel should be considered and maintained during the process.

Agreed on pin travel. As far as cock on close. That's up to the you or the smith to decide. There are things that can be done that don't change the mechanics/dimensions in any way that make it feel much better. And we are talking about feel here.

 

[Ziloooo]

The part I like: Easier installation for the trigger
The part I dislike: Less compatibility to the industrial standard R700 inlet

The compatibility issue is a definite deal breaker for me. IMO, a thoughtful design is to add functionality without sacrificing the compatibility to the 'standard'. I would apprecitate the trigger hanger design on Aero Solus more.

 

[DeathBeforeDismount]

5 years later.............

 

[roostercogburn98]

5 years later.............

Tell him what he should be using

 

[PinesAndProjectiles]

5 years later.............

Four.