Rifle Scopes School me...

[Rob01]

I can use it at 10x. It just sucks. I made that clear in my post. Compared to a .5 mil thick reticle at the same mag ranges the vortex blows. Take away good lighting and its worse yet. My opinion is its not good there. You can disagree as its opinion. A larger reticle is easier to see and use than a thinner one. That is factual and cant be argued. Where that crossover is can be argued.

The Razor is a great scope. One of my two favorites. It is not THE GREATEST scope in the world for every mag range and/or application like you want it to be. Sorry. Im not paid by them.

Never said it was the greatest but saying it's not usable in mid range is not exactly true and I didn't want people reading it and thinking if you didn't use the scope above 20x it wasn't usable. The scope is a 4.5-27x. If people buy it to use it mostly below 10x then they bought the wrong scope.

And nice dick move at the end. Expected better but hey.

 

[JINKSTER]

Just to educate you, not all Vortex products are made in China. Only the lower lines mostly.

I have a 4-12X40 Diamondback on my Savage A22 mag and a 3X Spitfire Prism on my DPMS LR-308 AP4...both are lower lines.

Love'em for the price...ashamed to admit it...and if I had it to do over again wouldn't buy them for that reason...jus say'in.

 

[Rob01]

I have a 4-12X40 Diamondback on my Savage A22 mag and a 3X Spitfire Prism on my DPMS LR-308 AP4...both are lower lines.

Love'em for the price...ashamed to admit it...and if I had it to do over again wouldn't buy them for that reason...jus say'in.

And that's your choice but there are other Vortex options for both that aren't chinese made. Some out there think all Vortex are chinese and didn't want anyone reading to keep that myth alive.

 

[JINKSTER]

And that's your choice but there are other Vortex options for both that aren't chinese made. Some out there think all Vortex are chinese and didn't want anyone reading to keep that myth alive.

Well since we're myth killing and educating me here?...Is it a myth that Vortex sells Philippine made PST Gen II's for the same $1,200 that NF sells a comparable Jap made SHV for or?...Vortex will sell Jap glass for the same $2,000 that several companies sell German glass for?...am I wrong in these observations?

 

[Twistid]

Who in the world would pay $1200 for a PST2? Sounds like you're comparing the MSRP of the Vortex with the street price of the SHV.

So if we're being honest and comparing ACTUAL street prices. The PST2 5-25FFP is $819.19 from Liberty Optics.

The comparison SHV 5-20 with IR is $1345 (sportoptics)

That's over $500 difference, not exactly "the same".

 

[Rob01]

Well since we're myth killing and educating me here?...Is it a myth that Vortex sells Philippine made PST Gen II's for the same $1,200 that NF sells a comparable Jap made SHV for or?...Vortex will sell Jap glass for the same $2,000 that several companies sell German glass for?...am I wrong in these observations?

Everyone knows the PSTs are Philippine made and they aren't $1200 but $999 and under. Also again everyone knows the Razor II are Japanese and they are about $1600 or so street price.

Does seem like you are under the assumption that where the scope is made says more than it's specs. That is a myth. Some excellent Japanese scopes out there in that price range.

 

[JINKSTER]

Everyone knows the PSTs are Philippine made and they aren't $1200 but $999 and under. Also again everyone knows the Razor II are Japanese and they are about $1600 or so street price.

Does seem like you are under the assumption that where the scope is made says more than it's specs. That is a myth. Some excellent Japanese scopes out there in that price range.
[/QUOTE)

I'm asking...I'm learning...and I'm not everybody...some of these prices don't get revealed until you do the "add to cart" thing....also?...I wasn't aware that all the PST GenII's come with IR which is a significant upcharge in an SHV...but then again?...we're still dealing with Philippine VS Japanese products.

 

[R_Swanson]

I thought for scopes:
AMG = US made (other that German sourced reticle)
Razor line = Japanese
PST Gen 2 = Philippines
Everything else = China

I could have sworn Koshkin said recently he thought the Razor Binos and spotters were made outside of Japan now, which would be a let down if he is right.

 

[Twistid]

It honestly sounds like you don't really know what you're talking about and picking/choosing random and wrong information to try to make a point.

 

[Fweedombypepe]

1. Athlon Cronus BTR
2. Athlon Ares ETR (call doug at cameralandny)
3. Vortex PST Gen II
4. Vortex Strike Eagle (mil\leo\fire discount a huge plus)
5. Athlon Midas Tac
6. Steiner P4xi 4-16 from cameralandny.com
7. Bushnells on clearance from cameraland
8. Brownells MPO


Any of these scopes will be more then okay for starters and if you do wanna upgrade in the future, just move it to a precision 22lr. Your gonna get one,
guaranteed, if you spend a lot of time on this forum.

ps. Steiner NOT okay for a 22lr due to 50m minimum parallex. Otherwise its a great buy.

 

[Rob01]

Jinkster it goes to specs and quality and not origin. You can find some cheap Japanese scopes that aren’t as good as other country scopes. You need to look at the actual scopes and what they offer and how they are spoken about by owners. I get the Chinese thing but some of the Philippine scopes are nice.

And yup some prices are add to cart and also sometimes worth calling as you can save money as most makers have minimum advertised pricing.

 

[VDVSNIPER]

New nightforce SHV or used sig tango 6

 

[Jake the dog]

As was mentioned early in this thread, Vortex PST. Look at Libertyoptics.com. You have to add the scope to your cart to see the final price. The PST is a really good deal at Scott's pricing.

 

[wade2big]

Never said it was the greatest but saying it's not usable in mid range is not exactly true and I didn't want people reading it and thinking if you didn't use the scope above 20x it wasn't usable. The scope is a 4.5-27x. If people buy it to use it mostly below 10x then they bought the wrong scope.

And nice dick move at the end. Expected better but hey.

It was a dick move. Went a little to far with it and shouldn't have said the last part. I apologize for that.

I did say:

The swfa is extremely usable in the midrange of the scope. The Razor is not. Anything below 15x and it gets less user friendly due to the thin reticle. Below 10x is a joke. Yes hits can be made there but with greater effort. Of course the scope is geared for high mag usability and is better there than the SWFA.

I thought I explained it well and gave it credit where it shined and even said it was geared to the higher side usability and was LESS friendly below 15X. I didnt say it was unusable. I also compared it to a scope that is much better in the mid to lower powers and give that one credit there. I didn't want someone buying a Razor and think its good where its not compared to other scopes and be disappointed. That was my whole point. Pick the right scope depending on what he wants. Now he knows an opinion comparing the two from someone who uses both scopes exclusively.

 

[patriot07]

It doesn't matter if you can get a Razor at $1400 or $1550. For a new shooter, it can't do anything that an $850 SWFA can't do. $700 of practice ammo is far superior to the miniscule difference between the two scopes to a new shooter.

 

[Wins10runsacp]

I didn't want someone buying a Razor and think its good where its not compared to other scopes and be disappointed. That was my whole point. Pick the right scope depending on what he wants. Now he knows an opinion comparing the two from someone who uses both scopes exclusively.

I appreciate that. You have reason to your explanation. I don’t go out much and didn’t want to be tied to a razor and be in $1600 for something that’s not gonna see much time.

As was mentioned early in this thread, Vortex PST. Look at Libertyoptics.com. You have to add the scope to your cart to see the final price. The PST is a really good deal at Scott's pricing.

Dude I swear like clockwork someone comes in every thread a razor for $1600 where, I don't believe it. Not like it's mentioned in every fucking thread here

Leaves plain folk like me with false hope... I think I’m gonna settle for a Viper PST gen 2 3-15x MRAD and learn how to use it. Someone locally is selling it for $400, if not I found on online at $599. I don’t think I’ll lose much in value in the resale market when it’s time to jump ship and know what I’m really looking for. Hopefully by then all these mid range money grabbing products are discontinued. I’m just tagging paper and testing on Coyote... maybe if I graduate I’ll move up the line.

I had you guys kick me to reason by throwing so many options and ideas. I’m the guy that gets buyer’s remorse and having so many ideas thrown at me. I think I’d end up getting a lot of remorse...

 

[wade2big]

I appreciate that. You have reason to your explanation. I don’t go out much and didn’t want to be tied to a razor and be in $1600 for something that’s not gonna see much time.




Leaves plain folk like me with false hope... I think I’m gonna settle for a Viper PST gen 2 3-15x MRAD and learn how to use it. Someone locally is selling it for $400, if not I found on online at $599. I don’t think I’ll lose much in value in the resale market when it’s time to jump ship and know what I’m really looking for. Hopefully by then all these mid range money grabbing products are discontinued. I’m just tagging paper and testing on Coyote... maybe if I graduate I’ll move up the line.

Great scope. I like the 3-15 better than the 5-25. Those Vortex scopes will spoil uou with their wide field of view. The pst gen 2 line carries that trait as well.

 

[patriot07]

For $400 you can't go wrong with a PST 2 3-15. If you don't buy it, let me know. My brother needs a long range scope in this price range and that would be perfect.

Where are you seeing them for $599?

 

[Rebels010]

For $400 you can't go wrong with a PST 2 3-15. If you don't buy it, let me know. My brother needs a long range scope in this price range and that would be perfect.

Where are you seeing them for $599?

Vortex Viper PST Gen II Rifle Scope 3-15x 44 EBR-2C MRAD Riflescope

The Vortex Viper PST Gen II Rifle Scope with MRAD Reticle offers detailed aim with optimal viewing. This Vortex rifle scope features an illuminated MRAD reticle. SCHEELS

www.scheels.com

 

[patriot07]

That's a freaking steal

 

[arrow179]

Yep for brand new $599 is a deal. I bought same scope with the vortex defender scope covers included and looked brand new (couldn’t find a scratch on it) for $550 shipped a couple months ago out of classifieds. Go for it!

 

[S197]

If you can hold out til July or November you will have better sales with higher end optics. During that time I would hit sporting stores and get your hand on some glass. SWFA was killing 2019 BF deals with their house optics, and with the slow Econ I’m sure we will see some good sales by the end of the year.

how often will you be shooting under 100-300 yards?

 

[Wins10runsacp]

If you can hold out til July or November you will have better sales with higher end optics. During that time I would hit sporting stores and get your hand on some glass. SWFA was killing 2019 BF deals with their house optics, and with the slow Econ I’m sure we will see some good sales by the end of the year.

how often will you be shooting under 100-300 yards?

Damn... forgot about BF. I sold all my scopes. I have nothing but red dots... I do want a SWFA HD. Doh!!! Well, I don’t shoot often. I started dabbling past 300 with an AR... now I’m getting the itch...

 

[Saltywheels]

Using a SWFA SS 12 x 42 on my .308. Happily goes out to 400-600(?) yds. Fixed -2nd Focal plain with no illumination.
Am a newbie to the forum, so pardon me if I am not allowed to say this, (a good way to get banned)

 

[300Norma1959]

I would rather buy a higher end used scope than a lower end new one

 

[Terry of illinois]

Viper is what you are looking for . In your price range and a warranty that just won’t quite.Give j Jimmy a call he will take care of you

 

[Pioneer 1]

So I’ve made a commitment to get a scope. My problem is I don’t have money to burn; by that just throw it at a brand and realize it’s crap. I see a lot of things being thrown outside of just glass, like “track”. How do I find a good “tracking” scope by definition? what is zero stop? How does that benefit me?
I mean for now I’m looking for FFP, MRAD type scope. Illuminated reticle, else?

budgetwise... approx $600-$1200

Even links would help...

I had the same dilemma here in the UK last year. In the end I went with the Tract Toric UHD. 4x20 x50. Great scope they also do a PRS reticle i just got the one with hash Mark's. In my opinion it is hitting higher than its price tag. I have used others Nightforce, Vortex , Sig and others but like i said went with the Tract! They also give military discount if you have proof of service. Have a look you wont be disappointed.

 

[Dobermann]

NF SHV 4-14x50 F1 would fit the requirements and budget.

What are people's thoughts on the SHV 4-14x50 F1 vs the older version of the NXS 3-15x50 that was also FFP?

I'm guessing this might have been covered here before (please go easy - this is my first post! ), but I thought it might be relevant to the OP.

(And thanks for all the other answers so far; I'm learning a lot!)

 

[Gypsy]

See if you can find the Bushnell DMRII with the Kestrel. Camera Land had the and so did GAP rifles a few months ago. Kestrel can be sold if you don't want to use it. I got the DMRII illuminated for about 1100.00 then sold the Kestrel for 300.00.

 

[Wins10runsacp]

See if you can find the Bushnell DMRII with the Kestrel. Camera Land had the and so did GAP rifles a few months ago. Kestrel can be sold if you don't want to use it. I got the DMRII illuminated for about 1100.00 then sold the Kestrel for 300.00.

I want the DMR! Doug actually got me a deal on the LRTSi. But... after looking at the DMR I might go that route. I think I found a decent platform to get started on... maybe sell this off and move to the DMR

 

[FLIGHT762]

^^^^Did you just buy a LRTSi (en route) from Doug and now you're changing your mind for a DMRII? ^^^^

 

[Wins10runsacp]

^^^^Did you just buy a LRTSi (en route) from Doug and now you're changing your mind for a DMRII? ^^^^

YES! gonna resell it locally and call Doug once i sell it... i read more and more after ordering, i ended up falling in love.

 

[FLIGHT762]

For Fuck sakes. Some of you are worse than women buying purses and shoes.

Buy the way, I own both scopes.

 

[Wins10runsacp]

For Fuck sakes. Some of you are worse than women buying purses and shoes.

Buy the way, I own both scopes.

haha! these are way better than purses and shoes....
what do you like about them? things that shine in the DMR? things that shine in the LRTS in respect the the DMR?
i'm a beginner, i mean this is going on an AR shooting paper and moving to coyote. i tell myself at night that i made the best decision.. i don't know how long i can lie to myself.

 

[FLIGHT762]

If you sell the LRTSi, you will be sorry. That's why I own both and also bought a LRHSi when GAP was selling them for $750.00 W/ the Leatherman tool. It's still in it's box, but will go on an AR-15 W/ WOA Service rifle barrel soon. They are all great scopes.

 

[Wins10runsacp]

If you sell the LRTSi, you will be sorry. That's why I own both and also bought a LRHSi when GAP was selling them for $750.00 W/ the Leatherman tool. It's still in it's box, but will go on an AR-15 W/ WOA Service rifle barrel soon. They are all great scopes.

you're setting the bar pretty high on this thing... i'm already sold on the value.

 

[TrevK]

Just run it and if you feel like you outgrow it just jump up a tier to a higher priced scope