Science of Recoil Videos

[Rocketmandb]

I just posted Part 3 of The Science of Recoil on YouTube. It goes into how accuracy is affected by recoil. Thanks to Precision Underground for giving me some feedback - though it did cost me most of my Friday incorporating it!



Parts 1 and 2:

 

[Precision Underground]

Well done sir! Glad to know I’m not the only one that lays in bed thinking about this stuff lmao.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Well done sir! Glad to know I’m not the only one that lays in bed thinking about this stuff lmao.

Thanks, and honestly it's probably the main thing that drew me to long range shooting in the first place. My brain gets going by problem solving, and ELR is one massive group of problems waiting to be solved, from before you chamber a round, to scouting shooting spots, to figuring out what to do shot to shot.

Frankly, other types of shooting just do not float my boat.

 

[SD Carpenter]

This helps me visualize exactly what's going on, very well done! I have to understand the why behind things.

 

[Deleted member 10043]

Good job and I really dig the quality (very professional). Note, your animations are without a brake and your live fire is with a brake on an otherwise low recoil rifle [my mistake ignore that part]. I'll ignore that though there is now other equal and opposite forces being applied to recoil other than just reducing it. Not that there is anything wrong with that. I need to shoot my .300 H&H w/o brake to experience exactly what you're teaching here because it doesn't take much with that rifle. On the other hand my same weight category rifles w/o brake (.308, 6.5x284, 25-06, .244 Rem, and 22-250) don't have enough recoil to seriously amplify the problems unless I'm way off base. I believe people are doing themselves a disservice by not taking what you are showing and learning on a rifle that is outside their comfort zone. Also, when having multiple rifles to choose from on any given day means they each will have a slightly different approach behind the rifle. Again, getting out of a comfort zone. Use different rifles if you get the chance to see how they differ from the one you are the most used to. It will amply what your are demonstrating in the short amount of time given to keep us shooters interested and engaged. Again, for those of us, like myself, that are more visual than intelligent, these short videos are just the ticket.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Those were nicely done! It doesn't totally answer what I've seen personally but it gives me things to think about.

One thing I've noticed when the barrel ends up pointing left after recoil is due to my cheek pressure imparting a force to the right on the back end of the stock.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Good job and I really dig the quality (very professional). Note, your animations are without a brake and your live fire is with a brake on an otherwise low recoil rifle. I'll ignore that though there is now other equal and opposite forces being applied to recoil other than just reducing it.

Thanks for the "very professional" comment, though I caught a couple errors after I published this last one that have me grumbling a bit - I verbally said the targets were at 300 yards, but they were at 500, and an editing error had my little pressure gauge jump at the end. of its animation.

For the first two videos, the brake comes into play as they both focus on what's happening after the shot. For the third, however, the brake minimally impacts what's going on before the bullet leaves the barrel.

Also, I'll refute that the 300 PRC is "otherwise a low recoil rifle"

These shots were with 230 gr Bergers and left the barrel at ~2820 fps.

Again, for those of us, like myself, that are more visual than intelligent, these short videos are just the ticket.

Visual is just a way to convey/receive information. Intelligence is not determined by how you best receive information, but rather how you retain and use it.

 

[Rocketmandb]

One thing I've noticed when the barrel ends up pointing left after recoil is due to my cheek pressure imparting a force to the right on the back end of the stock.

It is essentially the same thing as lining up incorrectly - a sideways force being imparted, just in a different place. This is one of the reasons why I like the KMW Loggerhead cheek riser hardware so much. It allows the riser to be set side-to-side as well as up/down. This allows those of us with a little wider cheek bones to have our head more straight up and down, and thus put less sideways force on the riser.

I will not own a rifle that doesn't have one in the stock.

Now I need to get on to my trigger management videos. There will be some eye openers in those, for sure

 

[Deleted member 10043]

My bad on the PRC comment, lol. I heard PRC and missed the 300 part. I was thinking, "man, that rifle must be light". That and the bullet weight is brake territory. I only shoot 190 grain for the older .300 H&H. I added an emphasis to my OP. Sorry about that.

 

[Lowlight]

These are awesome,

 

[Enough Said]

Very well done, Sir. I think the only thing I could add to it is the fact that we adjust the rear butt upward to allow the reception of the recoil pulse to be closer to the LINE OF DEPARTURE.

Again; awesome graphics and information.

-- Taylor

 

[MCHOG]

Excellent and very professional videos. Do you equate "hard shoulder" with pre-loading the bipod? If so, it sounds like preloading is not advisable for consistency.

 

[Rocketmandb]

Excellent and very professional videos. Do you equate "hard shoulder" with pre-loading the bipod? If so, it sounds like preloading is not advisable for consistency.

No - loading the bipod and a hard shoulder are not the same. My feeling on loading the bipod, and I think it is a view shared by many, is that you only "load" the bipod to the point of taking out the slack. You should not be jamming your shoulder into it, as that will create a hard shoulder to a point.

After I get my new rifle done later this year I'll be doing a video on loading and placement of the bipod. The reason I have to wait is for this I want a big round (hence big recoil) that has an Arca rail for the bipod. Then I also need to find a really crappy (loose) bipod that I can put an Arca clamp on. After I get everything set up, I'll be testing POI from different bipods, loading, and placement.

Probably late summer for this one.

 

[WB300]

Awesome vids. Thank you. This answers alot of the "why" for me. Looking forward to more.

 

[Precision Underground]

Excellent and very professional videos. Do you equate "hard shoulder" with pre-loading the bipod? If so, it sounds like preloading is not advisable for consistency.

The issue here is people misunderstand “load the bipod”. That verbiage usually leads people to push forward on the rifle with their shoulder and leads to the rock illustration in the video.

What I discussed with the OP was this- recoil that takes you off target is a different mechanism than recoil affecting accuracy. The solution for each of them lines up but it’s two different phases of the recoil that are affecting each part.

The first part is accuracy/consistent POI. There is stock deflection the instant you pull the trigger. The stock WILL deflect in some way when you pull the trigger. Having a consistent POI is dependent on you giving the rifle the same surface to interact with each time so it deflects the same each time. We have to give it a consistent surface to deflect on. Relaxed and square gives you a wide window for the stock to act on and still deflect the same(preferably straight back) each time. The spring illustration in the video was perfect to visualize this. The rock illustration is a perfect illustration for a “shouldered” rifle with a shoulder that is uneven and firm. Not only is it inconsistently hard/firm, it’s rounded like the rock in the illustration. This will deflect the stock in unpredictable ways.

Staying on target is the second/later part and is dependent on your being able to absorb all of the recoil without transferring it back into the rifle. If you don’t absorb the energy it will be deflected back into the rifle or else down into your rear bag and take you off target. This is the “late” part of recoil control.

So the solution for both issues is the same but it’s two different phases of recoil causing the two issues. A brake can help with staying on target but it’s not going to help with accuracy. You may think your brake helped your accuracy but it didn’t it helped your mentality and your ability to stay on target which made you more consistent. A brake does nothing until the bullet is out of the barrel so it physically can not change accuracy from a recoil/stock deflection standpoint.

 

[seansmd]

This is why this place rocks! Great videos and great dialogue.

 

[grovermn5]

nicely done sir!

 

[IronmanDaremo]

Good stuff. Thanks for getting #3 finished!!

 

[Rocketmandb]

Good stuff. Thanks for getting #3 finished!!

Thanks for the comment. Between the holidays, weather, animations, transitioning jobs, and a bunch of other stuff, this one took a lot longer than I'd expected.

Trigger stuff is the next big one - if I can figure out how/where I'll get four cameras all going at once. In the mean time, I'm hoping to have "Popper on a Stick" out in the next couple weeks

 

[Kane0519]

Great job on those videos!

 

[GotCox]

Thanks for taking the time to make these videos. ?

 

[Racer88]

Great videos!

 

[CaptBrian]

Great Work! Thank you sir.

 

[PAYDIRT]

Nice vids. Watched your other videos also

 

[scottieb042674]

Great stuff. Really like the visual affect to help explain to my 14 year old as we go through the whys and why nots.

 

[G5guy]

Thanks for the "very professional" comment, though I caught a couple errors after I published this last one that have me grumbling a bit - I verbally said the targets were at 300 yards, but they were at 500, and an editing error had my little pressure gauge jump at the end. of its animation.

For the first two videos, the brake comes into play as they both focus on what's happening after the shot. For the third, however, the brake minimally impacts what's going on before the bullet leaves the barrel.

Also, I'll refute that the 300 PRC is "otherwise a low recoil rifle"

These shots were with 230 gr Bergers and left the barrel at ~2820 fps.




Visual is just a way to convey/receive information. Intelligence is not determined by how you best receive information, but rather how you retain and use it.

 

[G5guy]

I watched all three videos. Very well presented. You are a very good instructor,,,thank you.

 

[1500varmint]

Bumping to the top after i saw these linked in another thread.

 

[Davo308]

Awesome series.

 

[Just Chuck]

Fantastic series! Great graphics and clear explanations.

P.S. After mulling this over, I do have a question for @Rocketmandb. Keeping the shoulder relaxed and soft for recoil absorption makes alot of sense but... I've heard that you should pull/hold the rifle to the shoulder with about the same weight as the rifle, - if the rifle weighs 15lbs, use about that amount of force to pull into the shoulder pocket. Not sure how to do that and keep a relaxed shoulder to reduce muzzle bounce/jump.

This system sounds similar to how some F Class shooters will shoot free recoil.

I'd like to hear your take on this and if somewhere I didn't get crossed up. Thanks.

 

[JB.IC]

i appreciate your videos. However, when I see a shooter like Derek Rodgers crush a KO2M competitions with his sideways prone shooting, I wonder if it really matters. Consistency has always been the name of the game so if you’re off to the left but consistent about it then it might not matter.

 

[Lowlight]

That is the myth of the winners who walk things in,

they are not consistent they are not doing anything but letting the rifle lob round the ELR Crowd are notoriously bad shooters to be perfectly honest

the Size and weight of the rifles will mask a lot, weight equals stability, we can demonstrate the WHY very simply, and in on Fundamentals instruction, we can show a lot of problems that people do consistently that get built into their shooting.

We see guys sink in their bags and add elevation, but if you do the same thing enough, you get good at it, even wrong. We are key off sound so we can match the sound of the ignition very well.

The fundamentals are the building blocks to all great shooting, and we have a lot more good bad shooters out there.

 

[JB.IC]

Can’t argue with that. There’s a video series on KO2M with what looks to be a lot of horrible shooting positions.

 

[Rocketmandb]

i appreciate your videos. However, when I see a shooter like Derek Rodgers crush a KO2M competitions with his sideways prone shooting, I wonder if it really matters. Consistency has always been the name of the game so if you’re off to the left but consistent about it then it might not matter.

If you can do something that's not ideal PERFECTLY THE SAME every time, then it's not as much of an issue. I mention this in one of the videos - the issue is that most people can't do things perfectly the same each time, but some can.

@lowlight @Dthomas3523 and many others stress fundamentals because one outcome of building good fundamentals is building consistency. Another is putting you in a superior position such that slight differences have less of an impact.

 

[nealm66]

Really cool. One thing I’ve done since I started shooting large magnum hunting rifles before they started putting muzzle brakes on is putting a light hold down on the stock. I don’t do this when I’m shooting a heavier, low recoil gun on bipods but if I’m trying to shoot let’s say a 300 weatherby without a brake and don’t hold down and try free recoil, it’s not good. I also notice that I don’t need a perfect trigger. Probably going to get beat up for this but just throwing it out there to see what your take is on it.