Scientific reasons for waiting to get the COVID vaccine

[Nik H]

I'm not sure I have ever heard a person who had symptomatic COVID express a cavalier attitude toward it afterward.

I'm about as cavalier about it as anyone I have met and I was on my back for 4 days with a 103.6 fever and I am 60. Doctor did nothing other than tell me to go home. After day 4, I was coughing up phlegm like you read about. My wife said you now have pneumonia in your left lung. Went back to the Doctor who verified the pneumonia and prescribed a Z-Pack with Hydroxychloroquine for the pneumonia. Wouldn't you know that two days later I was right as rain.

Maybe my results are atypical...maybe they are not...I choose not to take it. I also choose not to be vilified for it. Too many out there are the first to tell me I am a bad person. Too bad they don't get that far before they figure out the risk in doing so.

I don't wear a mask and I WON'T either.

 

[308pirate]

Don't get the vaccine and let us all know in mid September how that goes for you.

Fuck off with your fear mongering. I made it just fine through last September and this one will be no different.

And if you're vaccinated, you're safe! Your savior dr fauxi said so. Why worry about those who aren't?

Or are you really safe?

 

[acudaowner]

let the hamsters go first if they don't die then at least you have an idea if it's safe or not or what if any side effects there could be .

 

[Mike Islander]

Listening to politicians is good training for your future socialist government.

Why is it that anti-vaxers label anyone who takes the vaccine as sheep? WTF? Stupid shit.

 

[TimC in KY]

No, you do not need to do “research”. You are not researchers. Quite frankly most are incapable of reading a scientific article and coming to the correct conclusions.

Lot of folks are going to die gasping for air.
Those that survive will say they are correct but they will only be lucky.

You ARE the “Research”

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Why is it that anti-vaxers label anyone who takes the vaccine as sheep? WTF? Stupid shit.

Well look at that....
Sheep can type. Who knew.

 

[lash]

Why is it that anti-vaxers label anyone who takes the vaccine as sheep? WTF? Stupid shit.

Why is it that those who disagree with those who choose not to take This vaccine choose to call them names, like “killers” and “anti-vaxers”? I have taken many vaccines throughout my life, but there were a couple major differences between them and this particular subject. They’ve been discussed at great length already.

I mean, WTF? Stupid shit.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Why is it that anti-vaxers label anyone who takes the vaccine as sheep? WTF? Stupid shit.

Simple.

Because the true believers in vaccine refuse to simply say that people should be free to choose.
Instead they lie, bully, gaslight those who choose not to.

So they get called what they rightly deserve to be called. A mob of unthinking sheep.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Understanding mRNA COVID-19 Vaccines

Learn how mRNA vaccines trigger an immune response against COVID-19.

www.cdc.gov

SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells in humans - Nature

SARS-CoV-2 infection induces long-lived bone marrow plasma cells that correlate with anti-SARS-CoV-2 spike protein antibody titres in individuals who have recovered from COVID-19.

www.nature.com

The more memory B cells in your deep marrow the less likely you'll have a significant reinfection from seasonal Covid.

Wait...

No.

It's actually an experiment by a Marxist One World shadow Government to cull all the Liberal Sheep and leave a population of ... disobedient redneck flag waving antivaccers. to. repopulate. the. world. Wait. That doesn't make sense either.

Except the gene therapy that you are calling the vaccine is actually the infection that is designed to be spread to others.

Itll kill a lot of folks, who will never know what killed them.

 

[Threadcutter308]

Well look at that....
Sheep can type. Who knew.

 

[XLR308]

During the peak of the so called pandemic i worked for the local heath department administering Covid tests to everyone that exibited symtoms of the virus.
I believe i got covid from that and also believe it is absolute bullshit for a heathly adult to need to be vaccinated for it.
The last time i had a flu vaccine was 1997 and that was the last and worst time i ever had the flu, i was in south Korea during the Sars outbreak and never once put a mask on my face and never got sick.
In short fuck all dick bag mask mandates

 

[Snipe260]

I'm about as cavalier about it as anyone I have met and I was on my back for 4 days with a 103.6 fever and I am 60. Doctor did nothing other than tell me to go home. After day 4, I was coughing up phlegm like you read about. My wife said you now have pneumonia in your left lung. Went back to the Doctor who verified the pneumonia and prescribed a Z-Pack with Hydroxychloroquine for the pneumonia. Wouldn't you know that two days later I was right as rain.

Maybe my results are atypical...maybe they are not...I choose not to take it. I also choose not to be vilified for it. Too many out there are the first to tell me I am a bad person. Too bad they don't get that far before they figure out the risk in doing so.

I don't wear a mask and I WON'T either.

If someone wants to see a bad person! They will when they fuck with me about the vaccine or anything else for that matter. I’ll show them what the term violence means!

 

[Nik H]

If someone wants to see a bad person! They will when they fuck with me about the vaccine or anything else for that matter. I’ll show them what the term violence means!

Copy that

 

[Mike Islander]

Simple.

Because the true believers in vaccine refuse to simply say that people should be free to choose.
Instead they lie, bully, gaslight those who choose not to.

So they get called what they rightly deserve to be called. A mob of unthinking sheep.

This "true believers" you speak of does not include me, and I got the vaccine. Nuance, it's for thinkers.

 

[Snipe260]

Copy that

It’s a dang shame that’s what it’s come to! It has for me at least!

 

[Mike Islander]

Well look at that....
Sheep can type. Who knew.

Baa baa...eat a dick. But I have to admit that was funny.

The biggest problem is the labeling on both sides. Free will. Do what you want. But don't call me a sheep and I won't call you a killer, or a fool. And I don't. I did the research of the studies, not some nameless government entity. I chose for myself, knowing the current risks and realizing there are many unknowns.

 

[W54/XM-388]

This "true believers" you speak of does not include me, and I got the vaccine. Nuance, it's for thinkers.

If you did your own research, came to your own conclusions after looking at all the risks vs. rewards for your specific situation and decided getting a certain vaccine was in your own best interest, I have no problem with that. You do personally what is best for you personally, and as long as you are not trying to get others to do something they don't want to do because of some supposed benefit to you, then there is no issue.

BUT if you look at the rest of the thread and take a look at the various accusations, libel and untruths being put out by those who are not interested in letting folks be free to choose and be fine with it, you'll understand why there is a very hard pushback against those who engage in trying to bully, shame, force, gaslight or demean others for their choice to not take certain vaccines at some time or other.

Now that FACTS have been revealed showing clearly the disinformation, lies, politics, censorship and medical malpractice that many were vilified for saying existed, when it was a bit too early for others to agree, you'll understand why people don't care much for those that say you just need to shut up, turn off your brain and do what the political hacks say like it or not.

 

[W54/XM-388]

Ohhhh, I get it now. The Liberal Sheep are getting mRNA therapy that turns them into virus shedding super spreaders that even people who haven't been previously infected are immunologically helpless against.

Damn.

Devious.

Better mask up fellas. Chin diaper for you, chin diaper for you...

Johns Hopkins on self-spreading, self-propagating, transmissible vaccines

In 2018,

nexusnewsfeed.com

 

[Dogtown]

Where's the data?

I want to see it and read it myself. I don't want to hear your opinion.

Ask the professionals about thalidomide.................asshole.

Here you go, asshole

The Maryland data
CDC Data Tracker

But hey, if you want to die to own the Libs, don't let me talk sense to you.

 

[alpine44]

Is there any chance that we respect other people's personal conclusions and choices even if our conclusions and choices are different? And if we run out of salient arguments, could we please abstain from 'ad hominem' attacks and collectivist garbage arguments like "for the children", "for grandma", "for the collective"...

NOBODY has the right, easy answer, because there is no "right" answer that applies to everyone. The circumstances determining what the best course of action is differ for each individual AND change over time. In other words, nothing should worry you more than your personal conclusions being in agreement with everyone else and NOT changing over time.

Don't be a Johnny!

The problem isn't that Johnny can't read. The problem isn't even that Johnny can't think. The problem is that Johnny doesn't know what thinking is; he confuses it with feeling.

Thomas Sowell

PS: this post is not addressed at the previous poster. It applies to 98% of the posts in this thread.

 

[308pirate]

Here you go, asshole

The Maryland data
CDC Data Tracker

But hey, if you want to die to own the Libs, don't let me talk sense to you.

I'm talking about the clinical trials. The ones that studied the side effects, contraindications, etc.

Real science. You know what this is, don't you?

PS, the vaccine won't save you from death. You're dead already. You just don't know the time and date of your funeral.

PPS, you forgot to address thalidomide and the infallibility of medical science.......

 

[Nik H]

It’s a dang shame that’s what it’s come to! It has for me at least!

This subject is no different than

Aren't you celebrating the fact that TRUMP lost?
Do you support BLM?
Don't you support late term or live birth abortions with no questions asked?
Don't you think LGBTQ people are persecuted?
Shouldn't businesses be FORCED to accept customers that violate the business owners' religious or personal beliefs?
Don't you think that we owe reparations?
Don't you think white males are the evil part of society?
Don't you think we should immediately remove all historical artifacts of whiteness and prejudice?
Don't you think we need to teach our kids to be ashamed of being proud and being competitive?

The good news is that most people who ask these questions are PUSSIES and when they meet someone with violence of mind, they at least can see it and pick someone else to ask. If they can't, they won't make that mistake again

 

[Nik H]

Is there any chance that we respect other people's personal conclusions and choices even if our conclusions and choices are different? And if we run out of salient arguments, could we please abstain from 'ad hominem' attacks and collectivist garbage arguments like "for the children", "for grandma", "for the collective"...

NOBODY has the right, easy answer, because there is no "right" answer that applies to everyone. The circumstances determining what the best course of action is differ for each individual AND change over time. In other words, nothing should worry you more than your personal conclusions being in agreement with everyone else and NOT changing over time.

Don't be a Johnny!

The problem isn't that Johnny can't read. The problem isn't even that Johnny can't think. The problem is that Johnny doesn't know what thinking is; he confuses it with feeling.

Thomas Sowell

PS: this post is not addressed at the previous poster. It applies to 98% of the posts in this thread.

You're talking about civility and that died some time ago

Civil discourse is rare these days even amongst people who have common interests.

People read an article and then become self professed EXPERTS on any subject at hand. In a word, it is quite laughable

 

[Beefmanne]

The same people that said thou must wear a mask are the same idiots screaming that you must be vaccinated. Two words: Fuck off!

 

[P-Squared]

Where's the data?

I want to see it and read it myself. I don't want to hear your opinion.

Ask the professionals about thalidomide.................asshole.

or DES. That's how I got my cancer... 39 (thirty nine) years later.

I'm really glad your experiMENTAL treatments have been safe and effective for a few months. Get back to me in about 35 years.

Do whatever you want, but leave me out of it.

Signed

A covid survivor.

 

[TheGerman]

My #1 scientific reason:

I have more time testing a Mk262 clone load than they had testing the vaccine.

 

[alpine44]

You're talking about civility and that died some time ago

Civil discourse is rare these days even amongst people who have common interests.

People read an article and then become self professed EXPERTS on any subject at hand. In a word, it is quite laughable

Agree.

A huge problem is the widespread misunderstanding of what constitutes "science". Science is not a warehouse of marketable results, it is a method of discovery with the intent to get as close to the truth as possible no matter how uncomfortable that truth might be.

Counterintuitively, it requires that: "A scientific hypothesis must be falsifiable, implying that it is possible to identify a possible outcome of an experiment or observation that conflicts with predictions deduced from the hypothesis; otherwise, the hypothesis cannot be meaningfully tested."

Someone who claims that something is "obviously settled" and suppresses any dissent is anything but a credible scientist.

 

[HiDesertELR]

And this is how medical balkanization / apartheid will start...

 

[alpine44]

My #1 scientific reason:

I have more time testing a Mk262 clone load than they had testing the vaccine.

Thanks for rubbing it in that I should have spent more time at the re-loading bench then scrutinizing the details of this and that.

 

[mrtoyz]

Yes, the numbers are slanted beyond belief. Has any scientist explained how there were practically NO flu related deaths in the last 16 months?

No need for science. Flu tests haven’t been given. Don’t believe me, ask your doctors office how many flu tests they given just this year.

 

[alpine44]

This thread is giving me deja vu...

Pakistan polio: Seven killed in anti-vaccination attack

Protip for not falling into ideological rabbit holes:

1. Don’t ascribe to malice what can be plainly explained by incompetence.

 

[Nik H]

Agree.

A huge problem is the widespread misunderstanding of what constitutes "science". Science is not a warehouse of marketable result, it is a method of discovery with the intent to get as close to the truth as possible no matter how uncomfortable that truth might be.

Counterintuitively, it requires that: "A scientific hypothesis must be falsifiable, implying that it is possible to identify a possible outcome of an experiment or observation that conflicts with predictions deduced from the hypothesis; otherwise, the hypothesis cannot be meaningfully tested."

Someone who claims that something is "obviously settled" and suppresses any dissent is anything but a credible scientist.

I agree with your statements.

 

[supercorndogs]

At this point if you are avoiding the vaccine and you die from COVID, that's on you. Hopefully you don't take any kids under 12 with you.

The data says it's safe and that it is very effective. And now that we have large clusters of vaccinated and unvaccinated populations to compare, we can extrapolate those safety and efficacy predictions into real world data.

Basically, the vaccine test programs were rigorous load development with rounds tested at distance and met statistical expectations. Now large swaths of the community are testing those loads at distance and guess what? They're hitting targets. But a large chunk of the population is consumed by partisan ideology and unwilling to even try these loads, thinking they honestly know better than the professionals.

You mean like also those idiots who called out Fauci's lies before his emails were released proving he was lying? Professionals like Fauci that knew masks were not protective but claimed they were to follow the narrative. Why? He helped China make billions selling PPE. Why? Trust the processionals, two weeks to flatten the curve, didn't do shit, close business, didn't do shit, close churches, didn't do shit, stay home from school didn't do shit, yea trust the "professionals."

 

[supercorndogs]

Not trying very hard. A quick google search shows human trials from 2017 for mRNA Rabies and Cancer vaccines.



Safe. For the moment. Variants breed and multiply in unvaccinated populations.

The vaccinated catch and spread too chief, got your two masks on?

 

[P-Squared]

The same people that said thou must wear a mask are the same idiots screaming that you must be vaccinated. Two words: Fuck off!

No! In today's woke culture your pronouns are 'Fuck' and 'Off'

 

[candyx]

Kipchak khan Janibeg catapulted plaque infected corpses into the town in an effort to infect his enemies in 1347. Just incase you were wondering what are plan is for not getting vaccinated, it so we have ammo sort of speak.....

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

4% of the world's population accounts for 35% of the deaths? In a country with the most advanced medical system in the world?
In what fantasy land does this make sense?
If that shot of DNA altering fluid is so safe why did they get immunity from recourse?
Since millions have participated in this clinical trial why hasn't that immunity been removed?
80 years old with three or more comorbitities is still the average. <-----fact!! There's a big difference in facts and opinions.

 

[308pirate]

This thread is giving me deja vu...

Pakistan polio: Seven killed in anti-vaccination attack

Then you must be a complete moron

 

[supercorndogs]

Ya, but I brushed my teeth today so they're not chin diapers anymore.

Better be nose and mouth diapers. You aren't supper spreading through your chin. Those who virtue signal must go all the way.

So, you think that the virus will only mutate and spread in unvaccinated populations, but also know that vaccinated people catch and spread the virus...

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Johns Hopkins on self-spreading, self-propagating, transmissible vaccines

In 2018,

nexusnewsfeed.com

Hush yo mouf.
Let him keep thinking im a dumbass redneck.

 

[armorpl8chikn]

Is there any chance that we respect other people's personal conclusions and choices even if our conclusions and choices are different? And if we run out of salient arguments, could we please abstain from 'ad hominem' attacks and collectivist garbage arguments like "for the children", "for grandma", "for the collective"...

NOBODY has the right, easy answer, because there is no "right" answer that applies to everyone. The circumstances determining what the best course of action is differ for each individual AND change over time. In other words, nothing should worry you more than your personal conclusions being in agreement with everyone else and NOT changing over time.

Don't be a Johnny!

The problem isn't that Johnny can't read. The problem isn't even that Johnny can't think. The problem is that Johnny doesn't know what thinking is; he confuses it with feeling.

Thomas Sowell

PS: this post is not addressed at the previous poster. It applies to 98% of the posts in this thread.

That would all be good and fine...except we are now dealing with pure communists.

 

[Herb Stoner]

mRNA technology has been around for a while. It was tested in this county going back to the early '90s but struggled due to lack of funding for research and the research was hitting a wall for a while. Over time that changed and more research continued with multiple biotech companies working toward using mRNA technology for a vaccine, a replacement for embryonic stem cells, cancer treatment, and other drugs and applications. (My neighbor is an MD, geneticist, and founder of a company using this and other genetically modified virus technology for cancer treatment so a lot of this is coming from conversations with him.) Point is - the mRNA technology didn't come out of the woodwork at the last minute.

Fast forward and Trump's Operation Light Speed provided funding with a focus on technology platforms (such as mRNA) that had never made it to licensure previously. My neighbor leans conservative but was not a Trump fan (at all) though he did surprisingly give kudos to him for his support of developing COVID specific applications using new technologies - including mRNA. Companies working in parallel developed vaccines using the genetic code from the new virus. Out of this acceleration of the technology is coming more potential application for cancer drugs which is a good thing. We have not seen the last of mRNA.

As with most vaccines and medications, there are side effects which are either downplayed or blown out of proportion given how politicized this whole thing has become. As with any vaccine, we clearly will know more with time but so far, pretty good is the consensus among scientists.

It really comes down to personal risk which is (or should be) an individual decision. We have learned a lot in the past year or so such as the issues with co-morbidities. The old and frail are at higher risk for any respiratory illness including COVID. I saw that something like 80% of COVID deaths were overweight so maybe we have more of an obesity problem than a COVID problem. Young people are the lowest risk group by far.

Personally, I've waited as I'm in good health, have no co-morbidities, and don't interact much with anyone old or at a very high risk. I don't feel particularly at risk of a devastating outcome from COVID even though I know many who were quite ill and a few who died early on. We've also learned to treat the symptoms better for those that are infected. In the meantime work will continue toward formal approval - a government seal of approval that may or may not make some feel better about it.

 

[loveha]

All I can say, is I might have Covid right now, or I might have the common cold.
I have most of the symptoms, but, they are also all the symptoms for a cold. No fever, no loss of taste or smell, unless you count congestion for my lack of smell lol. This is also the second time in two months I've had these same symptoms, which is just fucking strange but whatever.
Like the article in the first post, those are my exact reasons for not taking it. I'll take it when the FDA approves it.

 

[DIBBS]

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/TvV9Sncwwxyf58r7eZ" width="480" height="423" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="">via GIPHY</a></p>

 

[theLBC]

some study in germany of over 10k found that 42% of the people that had covid never knew it.
this means that way more people have had covid than they were guessing, and it may be much less dangerous than they claim.
of you had a 0.03% chance of being impacted, that might be closer to 0.015.

it also means that up to 40% of people getting vaxxed are already immune
and that also means that 40% of the protection they claim is not from the shot.

 

[EddieNFL]

Anyone have a count on the number of counties that have revised their COVID death numbers? Over 20 percent lower on average, I believe. I was shocked the "data" was incorrect.

 

[Joel Danielson]

Add to this that anecdotal, as well personal experience, tells me human immune systems.......say 1990 on......have become "weaker".

All I have is "observation" to base this on.

Look at the prevalence of Epi Pens, Type I diabetes, Lupus, Derm issues, inhalers, spectrums.....

Maybe its diagnoses is improving, maybe its pharma promoting it.......

I think its real.

Repressed immune systems as well they respond aggressively against healthy systems when stimulated.

Whats the trigger?

I think the environment is cleaner in general from my childhood but perhaps new things I was not exposed to as a kid.

I think our food is heavily altered from when I was a kid, more un-natural shit contained within and bad dietary advice.

Look at the shit people are eating on a daily basis. Everything is processed and spends 2 minutes in a microwave because we are too busy to prepare real food. Glad my ex and I both grew up on farms and taught our kids how to grow their own veggies and how to hunt.
Cheers

 

[Limedust]

Yeah....but then you think...
"Hey.....all these fucking kool-aid drinkers shedding spike proteins around everyone....hmmm....wonder if this is another "gain of function" test."

Let them vax you. If you can't see you are a fucking bipedal guinea pig....well hell, I'm not sure there's much hope for your dumb ass.

ETA
I'd rather be around a Covid patient, than someone who has been vaxxed with gene therapy.
And I have been around Covid patients, without a mask or hand sanitizer.

It's not gene therapy.

 

[DarnYankeeUSMC]

You are right.
It's injecting a manufactured substance into your body that makes your genes act differently.

It's not gene therapy.

 

[Limedust]

You are right.
It's injecting a manufactured substance into your body that makes your genes act differently.

I am right. You're wrong ... again.