Bottom line up front - looking for advice from people with relevant experience on optics for a .308 bolt gun and a .308 gas gun, I want both scopes to have a grid mil reticle. I am not new to the world of premium optics, but the market moves so fast I figure that there is plenty of new stuff out there I’m not familiar with. So the point of this thread it to get input on some of the options I’m considering, or suggestions for scopes I might want to consider.
For my bolt gun anything with a maximum magnification of 15X or more is sufficient, and for the gas gun anything with a maximum magnification of 10X is enough. More magnification is not a bad thing, but I don’t need it. I’ll mostly be shooting at 300-600 meters, and occasionally further out when I can.
In order of precedence, what my priorities are:
1- Horus or similar grid mil reticle
2- Optical quality
3- Price, new or used the budget cap is $2000 for the bolt gun, $1500 for the gas gun
4- Turret quality, reliable tracking and zero stop
5- Size, pure vanity but I think scopes that dwarf the rifle look ridiculous
6- Weight, not very important as I will probably never run-and-gun either setup
7- Illuminated reticle, I rarely if ever use illumination
Some background information to help understand where I am coming from.
Over the past year I have been fortunate to gain a lot of new long-range experiences shooting unstable platform, nighttime, high angle, and well beyond 1000 meters. With that came shooting a variety sniper rifles, .308 gas guns, various .300 Win Mag and .338 Lapua bolt guns, and a XM107. With every new rifle I got behind I also got to experience a variety of different optics. What I came to appreciate most was a useful reticle.
Every situation is different, but I found a Horus/grid mil reticle made things much easier when making rapid corrections on follow up shots, having to do holds of more than two mils, and when referencing the location of targets when communicating with spotters. I prefer holds to dialing in corrections when making follow up shots, or when rapidly engaging multiple targets at different ranges. Now that I have gotten a taste for shooting with a grid style reticle I don’t want to go back to anything else. My goal is to continue practicing a lot of what I’ve learned and get more proficient with milling systems.
Below I have listed all the scopes on the market I’ve identified that have features I am looking for and are within my budget (new and/or used), along with my initial thoughts on each.
If there is a scope not on this list I should consider, let me know!
Burris XTR II 4-20, H59 reticle
Burris is not a name that inspires much confidence, but it seems like they’re making a valiant attempt at making higher quality scopes. What is the consensus on the XTR II line?
Athlon Ares BTR 2.5-15, APLR3 reticle
I know absolutely nothing about Athlon. The APLR3 reticle seems like a Vortex EBR-2C knockoff.
US Optics B-10 1.8-10X, with H425 reticle & B-17 3.2-17, H59 reticle
Years ago I had a USO SN-3 1.8-10 on an AR. Anyone who was on Snipers Hide back around 2011 might remember the hype around USO… I wasn’t amazed with the optics but the glass was still good. I get the impression that US Optics has failed to keep pace with the industry? The B10/B17 appears to me to be the same old SN-3 with a facelift.
Bushnell LRTS 3-12, G3 reticle
The G3 reticle is hardly what I want, but close enough to consider since Bushnell scopes can be had for cheap. The LRTS is another really long scope compared to others in the same power range. The thing I remember the most about the DMR I had owned was a lot of chromatic aberration, I am concerned the LRTS might be the same.
Bushnell DMR II 3.5-21x50mm, H59 reticle
The DMR (GAP G2 reticle) I owned years ago was never a disappointment, I always thought it was a good value despite the chromatic abortion that was significant past 15X. I’ve seen these with the Horus H59 for under $900 on the used market, making it one of the very few ways to get a Horus reticle for under $1k.
Eotech Vudu 2.5-10 & 3.5-18, H59 reticle
I am extremely skeptical of anything Eotech. The “Vudu” name makes me cringe, and I think line is as ugly as Senator Feinstein. All that being said, I’d be willing to give it a try as the price point is very appealing, assuming the glass is good and everything works...
Sig TANGO6 3-18, MRAD DEV-L reticle
It’s Sig, not many companies burn customers with spotty QC and constant changes to product lines like Sig. It checks all the boxes, but are these things even worth considering? Also, rubber on the magnification ring is a very Walmart touch.
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 3-15, EBR-2C reticle
The PST is a bit on the long side at 14.3 inches. I had a Razor HD II before and had no complaints, but I have no experience with the PST line.
Razor HD Gen II 3-18, EBR-2C reticle
I’ve owned one and would buy again, but I prefer a Horus reticle to the EBR-2C.
Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18, Tremor3 reticle
The 35mm main tube seems like an expensive pain in the ass when going to buy rings, but otherwise a promising alternative to the Mk6.
Leupold Mark 6 3.6-18, Tremor3/H59/H58 reticle
I read a lot of mixed reviews on the Mk6, the consensus seems to be the Mk6 was a swing and a miss. I shot one on a Mk20 earlier this year and was a little frustrated with the eye box; in fairness it probably had more to do with the rifle setup. In terms of optics it wasn’t remarkable, I don’t remember being overly impressed or disappointed.
For my bolt gun anything with a maximum magnification of 15X or more is sufficient, and for the gas gun anything with a maximum magnification of 10X is enough. More magnification is not a bad thing, but I don’t need it. I’ll mostly be shooting at 300-600 meters, and occasionally further out when I can.
In order of precedence, what my priorities are:
1- Horus or similar grid mil reticle
2- Optical quality
3- Price, new or used the budget cap is $2000 for the bolt gun, $1500 for the gas gun
4- Turret quality, reliable tracking and zero stop
5- Size, pure vanity but I think scopes that dwarf the rifle look ridiculous
6- Weight, not very important as I will probably never run-and-gun either setup
7- Illuminated reticle, I rarely if ever use illumination
Some background information to help understand where I am coming from.
Over the past year I have been fortunate to gain a lot of new long-range experiences shooting unstable platform, nighttime, high angle, and well beyond 1000 meters. With that came shooting a variety sniper rifles, .308 gas guns, various .300 Win Mag and .338 Lapua bolt guns, and a XM107. With every new rifle I got behind I also got to experience a variety of different optics. What I came to appreciate most was a useful reticle.
Every situation is different, but I found a Horus/grid mil reticle made things much easier when making rapid corrections on follow up shots, having to do holds of more than two mils, and when referencing the location of targets when communicating with spotters. I prefer holds to dialing in corrections when making follow up shots, or when rapidly engaging multiple targets at different ranges. Now that I have gotten a taste for shooting with a grid style reticle I don’t want to go back to anything else. My goal is to continue practicing a lot of what I’ve learned and get more proficient with milling systems.
Below I have listed all the scopes on the market I’ve identified that have features I am looking for and are within my budget (new and/or used), along with my initial thoughts on each.
If there is a scope not on this list I should consider, let me know!
Burris XTR II 4-20, H59 reticle
Burris is not a name that inspires much confidence, but it seems like they’re making a valiant attempt at making higher quality scopes. What is the consensus on the XTR II line?
Athlon Ares BTR 2.5-15, APLR3 reticle
I know absolutely nothing about Athlon. The APLR3 reticle seems like a Vortex EBR-2C knockoff.
US Optics B-10 1.8-10X, with H425 reticle & B-17 3.2-17, H59 reticle
Years ago I had a USO SN-3 1.8-10 on an AR. Anyone who was on Snipers Hide back around 2011 might remember the hype around USO… I wasn’t amazed with the optics but the glass was still good. I get the impression that US Optics has failed to keep pace with the industry? The B10/B17 appears to me to be the same old SN-3 with a facelift.
Bushnell LRTS 3-12, G3 reticle
The G3 reticle is hardly what I want, but close enough to consider since Bushnell scopes can be had for cheap. The LRTS is another really long scope compared to others in the same power range. The thing I remember the most about the DMR I had owned was a lot of chromatic aberration, I am concerned the LRTS might be the same.
Bushnell DMR II 3.5-21x50mm, H59 reticle
The DMR (GAP G2 reticle) I owned years ago was never a disappointment, I always thought it was a good value despite the chromatic abortion that was significant past 15X. I’ve seen these with the Horus H59 for under $900 on the used market, making it one of the very few ways to get a Horus reticle for under $1k.
Eotech Vudu 2.5-10 & 3.5-18, H59 reticle
I am extremely skeptical of anything Eotech. The “Vudu” name makes me cringe, and I think line is as ugly as Senator Feinstein. All that being said, I’d be willing to give it a try as the price point is very appealing, assuming the glass is good and everything works...
Sig TANGO6 3-18, MRAD DEV-L reticle
It’s Sig, not many companies burn customers with spotty QC and constant changes to product lines like Sig. It checks all the boxes, but are these things even worth considering? Also, rubber on the magnification ring is a very Walmart touch.
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 3-15, EBR-2C reticle
The PST is a bit on the long side at 14.3 inches. I had a Razor HD II before and had no complaints, but I have no experience with the PST line.
Razor HD Gen II 3-18, EBR-2C reticle
I’ve owned one and would buy again, but I prefer a Horus reticle to the EBR-2C.
Leupold Mark 5 3.6-18, Tremor3 reticle
The 35mm main tube seems like an expensive pain in the ass when going to buy rings, but otherwise a promising alternative to the Mk6.
Leupold Mark 6 3.6-18, Tremor3/H59/H58 reticle
I read a lot of mixed reviews on the Mk6, the consensus seems to be the Mk6 was a swing and a miss. I shot one on a Mk20 earlier this year and was a little frustrated with the eye box; in fairness it probably had more to do with the rifle setup. In terms of optics it wasn’t remarkable, I don’t remember being overly impressed or disappointed.
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