I know this has been talked about over and over but with the rate of products changing, I’m looking for advice from prs shooters with experience behind glass. I had razor g2 with the ebr-1c reticle. It is a good simple reticle but having only 1/2 mil marks it made for difficult wind calls from my pro at the gap grind this past weekend. My price range is $2500ish. I like the pr2 reticle on the mk5 but wondering if there is a difference in clarity between the 5-25 or 7-35. Also considering a g3 razor. If that was your price point and you were a new shooter, what would you choose? Thanks for the help.
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PRS Talk Scope decision?
- Thread starter KYyeeter
- Start date
Leupold has great glass/reticle but the field of veiw is tiny. The g3 razor is a excellent option. Im considering standarizing to that so i dont have to buy 2 more zcos. With discounts its in your price range
Wait for a used G3 Razor to pop up on Gere for $2500 or so. Having had MK5s and G3s, there's no comparison. The G3 is heads and shoulders above the mk5 in every facet.
Hi KYYeeter, I'm assuming you're wanting to shoot PRS CENTERFIRE correct? I ask because this is my journey in both Rimfire and Centerfire. Centerfire first:
I started with a Steiner TX5i and loved it, but similar to your statement above, the reticle wasn't great for PRS. I then went to a Vortex Razor Gen II and LOVED IT. The EBR7C reticle is very hard to beat for PRS (I'm a reticle focused shooter and place glass and reticle on the same level). Then, the ZCO bug bit me and went to a ZCO 527 with the MPCT2 reticle. I'm sticking with that scope because I just love it. OK, that's my centerfire journey and I know the ZCO is out of budget...Let's talk rimfire now.
I began rimfire with a Vortex Strike Eagle (again it had the EBR7C reticle and worked great for me. Then, I decided to standardize, so I went with another ZCO527 for my Vudoo rimfire rifle. THEN, I decided that I was going to trim down my rimfire shooting and focus on centerfire, so I felt that I didn't need a $4k scope any longer...Enter the Razor Gen III. The glass WAS better than the Gen II, but, when I pay $2500 for a scope and have to send it back the day I get it so Vortex can fix the turrets that they knew were bad, but released the scope anyway, well, that left a sour taste in my mouth. In addition, don't know about others, but I literally had to adjust the parallax on that scope every 200yd distance change. It might be MY eyes, but I've heard of others with that issue as well. The scope itself is a tank, just like the Gen II, but honestly, I didn't get "the juice for the squeeze" out of it...The value just wasn't there for me.
I sold the Gen III and have gone to a TRACT Toric 4.5-30X56 34mm MRAD ELR Rifle Scope. I have to say that I'm VERY happy with this scope and would have no hesitation using it for centerfire matches (I just have my ZCO and very happy with it).
The Leupold MK5 with the PR2-MIL FFP is, I've heard a very good scope. Remember though that if you're used to 0.2 hash marks, this one has 0.25 hash marks. People I've talked to say you get used to it pretty easily, so it just really depends on how you might need to translate your windage readings to the scope (kestrel may be telling you 0.2 or 0.4 and you'll need to mentally note that when you're behind the scope).
The Burris Pro is similar to the Leupold in that the SCR2 reticle has 0.25 hash marks. I'm working on a video review for my TRACT and am including my decision matrix here. The Leupold and Burris are not in that list because of the 0.25 hash marks...That's just a ME thing. I don't want to shoot centerfire with ZCO (0.2 hash marks), then rimfire with something else with 0.25 hashmarks. Again, these are things to consider IMHO especially if you plan on shooting centerfire and rimfire.
I am NOT telling you to buy the TRACT...It's working great for me and rimfire, and knowing what I know about it after using it in two matches now, I'd have no issue running it (or the Maven for example) in centerfire...The glass (Schott glass) is on par in my opinion with the Razor Gen III. Hope you find what you're looking for my friend!
I started with a Steiner TX5i and loved it, but similar to your statement above, the reticle wasn't great for PRS. I then went to a Vortex Razor Gen II and LOVED IT. The EBR7C reticle is very hard to beat for PRS (I'm a reticle focused shooter and place glass and reticle on the same level). Then, the ZCO bug bit me and went to a ZCO 527 with the MPCT2 reticle. I'm sticking with that scope because I just love it. OK, that's my centerfire journey and I know the ZCO is out of budget...Let's talk rimfire now.
I began rimfire with a Vortex Strike Eagle (again it had the EBR7C reticle and worked great for me. Then, I decided to standardize, so I went with another ZCO527 for my Vudoo rimfire rifle. THEN, I decided that I was going to trim down my rimfire shooting and focus on centerfire, so I felt that I didn't need a $4k scope any longer...Enter the Razor Gen III. The glass WAS better than the Gen II, but, when I pay $2500 for a scope and have to send it back the day I get it so Vortex can fix the turrets that they knew were bad, but released the scope anyway, well, that left a sour taste in my mouth. In addition, don't know about others, but I literally had to adjust the parallax on that scope every 200yd distance change. It might be MY eyes, but I've heard of others with that issue as well. The scope itself is a tank, just like the Gen II, but honestly, I didn't get "the juice for the squeeze" out of it...The value just wasn't there for me.
I sold the Gen III and have gone to a TRACT Toric 4.5-30X56 34mm MRAD ELR Rifle Scope. I have to say that I'm VERY happy with this scope and would have no hesitation using it for centerfire matches (I just have my ZCO and very happy with it).
The Leupold MK5 with the PR2-MIL FFP is, I've heard a very good scope. Remember though that if you're used to 0.2 hash marks, this one has 0.25 hash marks. People I've talked to say you get used to it pretty easily, so it just really depends on how you might need to translate your windage readings to the scope (kestrel may be telling you 0.2 or 0.4 and you'll need to mentally note that when you're behind the scope).
The Burris Pro is similar to the Leupold in that the SCR2 reticle has 0.25 hash marks. I'm working on a video review for my TRACT and am including my decision matrix here. The Leupold and Burris are not in that list because of the 0.25 hash marks...That's just a ME thing. I don't want to shoot centerfire with ZCO (0.2 hash marks), then rimfire with something else with 0.25 hashmarks. Again, these are things to consider IMHO especially if you plan on shooting centerfire and rimfire.
I am NOT telling you to buy the TRACT...It's working great for me and rimfire, and knowing what I know about it after using it in two matches now, I'd have no issue running it (or the Maven for example) in centerfire...The glass (Schott glass) is on par in my opinion with the Razor Gen III. Hope you find what you're looking for my friend!
The XTR Pro can be had with a .2 MRAD reticle.
I haven't been behind a G3, but head and shoulders above the MK5 or PRO is a bold mark. It's *that* nice?
Yes. The G3 glass is somewhere between ATACR glass and ZCO glass.
Some have reported mushy turrets but both of my G3s have good turrets.
If your budget was sub $2k, I'd go MK5 in a heart beat. It's a great scope at the $1750-2000 mark. Not the $2500-3000 mark.
There is a downside though. The Mk5 has one of, if not THE single dumbest design feature of any scope on the market with their windage knob and the offset zero mark.
Good to know. Like I said, I've never looked through the G3 to compare side by side either the Leupold or the Burris. Both are an excellent value at the 2K-ish price point. And completely agree on the windage marking for the MK5. It's retarded.
Did you get a chance, or did you ever consider the Zeiss LRP S3 4-25 or the 6-36? There numbers are very similar, same with Price and I have noticed the Reticle the same. I am in the same dilemma; I am really trying to decide between it or another ZCO (Currently have two a 420 MPCT2 and a 527 MPCT2). Not sure If I should pull the trigger on the Zeiss or save a little more and just get another ZCO 527, I really am torn. BTW, it would be going on a 22LR rig. Also, I did have both Tract's the 4.5-30 and the 4-20, I felt the Reticle was nice enough, but I felt the clarity of the glass was no better than a Burris XTR III or the CRONOS which I had at the time and compared it against, but that was my eyes. I know a lot of people like the Tract's. BTW Really like the YT channel, watch it and the other buddies in your group from TX. informative.
@Vinnie45ACP also mentions another scope that should be in your lineup, the XTR III which can be had around the $1200 mark in the PX. Sometimes less. Another outstanding value for glass clarity in both the 3-18 and 5-25. No 1/4MIL reticle though.
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Look at the numbers from these that @The4GunGuy did up with the ZEISS LRP S3 4-25 and 6-36 both are in your price range especially if you call around. Cameralandny, and a couple others are selling for good deals, you might have to wait a few weeks though. and I agree those other models like the XTR Pro all do come in a .2 Mil reticle format. A few have done reviews of the LRP S3 on here as well as YT check it out, worth a look. I know the Guy who runs SH, swears by them and says they are the best scopes for the that money, his words.
Agreed, the SCR2 is the .2 version and the SCR2 1/4 is the 2.5 mil version. Make sure you understand which one you're looking at folks.
I would choose the reticle you like and can work with first. Reticle is one of, if not the most, important thing in the scope. Not being able to work wind calls with a .5 mark is more about being new than the reticle as the more you learn the more you will see how easy it actually is. That said you will want a reticle with a tree below. The simple reticle is not the best for this game. You want to be able to do easy hold overs for elevation and wind and hold corrections fast. Find a reticle you like and can work with and then look at the scopes it comes in. Any scope in that $2000-2500 range will be plenty clear enough for this game so don't nit pick glass. That is your new guy coming through
Some things to look at:
Power range: 5-25 is a good area to be in. I wouldn't go less but you can go more if you wanted as you will use the upper more than the lower end. The 7-35 is a good place too. Will use the middle range the most but good to have the top when needed.
Good knobs with zero stop. Locking turrets will be up to you but I like a locking windage at least as I hold all my wind. In matches today with limited movement locking isn't a must have but a nice to have as scopes aren't getting bumped as much as they used to.
Most all scopes you will be looking at will have plenty of elevation.
Illuminated reticle. That will be debated by the "I NevEr eVen puT my BatTery In" crew but when you get into shot up steel in darker areas being able to turn it on and have good contrast will help a lot. One of those don't need it all the time but when you need it you will be glad you have it. IMHO any scope over $1000 should come with it as a standard feature. I wouldn't own one without it.
I am sure I missed something but between all these posts you can get it figured out.
A lot of good information here folks. I believe I have a real good starting place for what to look into, what’s important and what’s not so important. The club nearest to me is going to start rotating between match one month, tune up/practice day the next month. I think it will be easier to get behind several different scopes without a match going on and see what I like or don’t like and what works with my eyes.
Your price range puts you into Burris XTR3 Pro and Razer G3 territory. Between the two I would look at whichever reticle you prefer and go with it. Call or email Liberty Optics to get pricing on both, you won't regret it.
Hi Vinnie! I didn't consider the Zeiss for some reason, but I have to say I love that reticle! It can be a bit confusing I think, but the 0.5 mil dots are awesome and I like the fact that they started the windage numbering with "1", so there's no doubt where you are when holding (I hold wind). Thanks for pointing that out!
You hit the nail on the head KY! Go to a match and after, just ask and make your own decision. Don't know your age, but I'm finding that with my age, and my eyes, glass clarity is a very personal thing!
I went thru this earlier this year, looking for a scope that had all the features I wanted including the reticle. I was coming off of a Vortex PST Gen 1 that had a simple reticle with .5MIL hash marks and no christmas tree. Semi-doable for PRS/NRL, but holding over and needing to hold wind was difficult. Plus having .25 or .2 sub-hashmarks would have been nice for fine tuning holds.
Based on recommendations on SH, I ended up getting the Burris XTR Pro w/ SCR2 reticle (.2MIL hashmarks and had a tree). Nice fine lines, small cross at the center, tool less elevation turret, zero stop, capped windage turret, pretty good glass, and 5.5-30X. And at a decent price point which made buying a second XTR Pro possible so my rimfire and centerfire rifles were the same.
Used ones (slightly used) pop up on the PX from time to time and new ones are also becoming more available online or in brick&mortar shops.
Based on recommendations on SH, I ended up getting the Burris XTR Pro w/ SCR2 reticle (.2MIL hashmarks and had a tree). Nice fine lines, small cross at the center, tool less elevation turret, zero stop, capped windage turret, pretty good glass, and 5.5-30X. And at a decent price point which made buying a second XTR Pro possible so my rimfire and centerfire rifles were the same.
Used ones (slightly used) pop up on the PX from time to time and new ones are also becoming more available online or in brick&mortar shops.
Yes, I’m seriously considering giving one a try, don’t know why I haven’t pulled the trigger yet, maybe same reason you went through all your analysis to finally fall upon the Tract, I have buying and selling, can we do it, sure, but it is a pain and usually lose a bit. Rather get it right the first time if I can help it with all the scopes I have already gone through, if you can feel me on that!
@KYyeeter
In my opinion, the Burris XTR Pro is better than the Leupy in all respects. The glass on the razor 3 is a touch better than the XTR, but the XTR is better in all other aspects. The race dial on the XTR is fantastic, very helpful on stages where you need to do a lot of dialing fast.
Finally, I highly recommend you set up a PRS shooter account at Eurooptic. The discounts offered to active PRS shooters is stellar!
In my opinion, the Burris XTR Pro is better than the Leupy in all respects. The glass on the razor 3 is a touch better than the XTR, but the XTR is better in all other aspects. The race dial on the XTR is fantastic, very helpful on stages where you need to do a lot of dialing fast.
Finally, I highly recommend you set up a PRS shooter account at Eurooptic. The discounts offered to active PRS shooters is stellar!
Offset zero mark is there to make it easier to see when looking through the scope. Not dumb, just a different approach that many appreciate.
If you like the xtr pro glass....I think you will love the Steiner t6 glass looked sightly better to my eye but could very well be the same glass
I’m assuming you have to be an actual prs member to qualify for that. I didn’t join this season because I wanted to try it out first but I think I’m going to stick around a while so I will for next season.
I shoot with a lot of guys that run mk5s and they all hate it. Several have sold their mk5s because of it.
But to each their own.
But to each their own.
You do need to be a PRS member and send their marketing team a screen shot of your PRS profile. The discounts are VERY good on alot of items
Im no expert reviewr but i jad a g3 next to zco focused at 1ky target and was really impressed. The zco wins with dof and edge clarity and maybe color but its not a 1500$ difference.
To Rob01's point - I seriously think ergonomics and reticle choice trumps all else. It confuses some of my buddies that I run a USO Foundation instead of my ATACR for PRS. Yes, the ATACR has clickier turrets, and an invincible cult following and reputation for reliability, but my USO has a bigger FOV, and reticle I prefer, and I've had no reliability issues. I've never lost points at a match because my turrets weren't "clicky" enough. I have lost points looking for targets, and because I couldn't pick out wind holds/corrections fast enough, or from not being able to read a reticle.
I've never dropped points from having CA. I've never dropped points because my scope was too heavy. I've never lost points at a match because I haven't set a Zero Stop.
No scope is simply "best". What is "best" is always determined first by defining your own needs, and what meets those needs best.
I've never dropped points from having CA. I've never dropped points because my scope was too heavy. I've never lost points at a match because I haven't set a Zero Stop.
No scope is simply "best". What is "best" is always determined first by defining your own needs, and what meets those needs best.
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