Rifle Scopes Scope Moves in Mount

[cjs88]

I just noticed yesterday? maybe the day before, I don't remember now, that my scope moved in my mount. I torqued the screws to spec when I mounted it and took it to the range and it was fine. I didn't even shoot a full box through it. Should I loosen it and retorque the screws to specs? Or could this be a mount defect?

 

[spife7980]

What’s the scope? What’s the mount? What are the specs?

Also, we can’t answer any of that for you.

 

[cjs88]

Its a PmII in 34mm Audere mount.

 

[davsco]

were the screws loctited, did any come loose? what caliber? is the mount tight?

 

[cjs88]

It's 6.5CM .I did not loctite them. Should I loctite them for the rings and not the mount?

 

[Rob01]

You shouldn't have to loctite the ring caps to keep them from loosening. I would try to torque them again and see what happens.

Did you degrease the screws and screw holes when you mounted?

Also you didn't lap them did you?

 

[loveha]

If the instructions on the ring screws do not call for loctite, then assume torque is for clean and dry screws.
If it was me, I would clean the screws and holes off any oils, and remount. If it slips again, RMA the mount.
What is your torque tool?

 

[cjs88]

If the instructions on the ring screws do not call for loctite, then assume torque is for clean and dry screws.
If it was me, I would clean the screws and holes off any oils, and remount. If it slips again, RMA the mount.
What is your torque tool?

What do you recommend to degrease it? Would some alcohol wipe work? I have an electronic wheeler.

 

[Rob01]

I use alcohol on a cotton ball and spin each screw in it. You can see the stuff come off. Then I use a qtip with alcohol in the holes. Works great.

 

[Steel head]

De greasing really can help as suggested above
Some alcohol and your GTG

 

[Rob01]

Also degreasing the inside of the rings is a good idea. I do that also.

 

[cjs88]

Also degreasing the inside of the rings is a good idea. I do that also.

Degreased. We'll see how it goes.

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Is the mount parts going flush to each other? Are you sure it isn't a 35mm mount? Usually there is room to spare when tightening the mount. A pic would tell us a lot.

 

[Holliday]

I use pipe cleaners for degreasing screw holes.

 

[Halberdier]

Hakan Spuhr covered slipping scope issues. In a nutshell, don't clean your screws. I also re-torque after shooting the first time. About half the times the screws turn.

 

[toader]

Rosin on inside of rings helps too......shit grabs like vise!!

 

[Elnino31]

OK, now I’m confused.

Mr Spuhr clearly has much more knowledge and time invested in the subject, but the only time I’ve ever had a scope slip is when I didn’t clean the oil off of the screws (not with a Sphur). They backed off within a couple uses of the rifle. I thought the scope was jacked because it couldn’t hold a zero. Some of the screws had zero torque on them when I realized it. Every screw was torqued properly with a Borka tool.

I have Spuhr mounts and I’ve read the directions about the wax they put on the screws, so I understand that and do not remove the wax from new screws, but I would have a hard time adding oil to them.

The best advice I could give is to spot mark the screws with nail polish. Then you’ll know if they’ve moved.

I have always been paranoid of scope slippage ever since

 

[Rob01]

Don't be confused. Clean off the oil and torque properly.

 

[Elnino31]

I don’t plan to change my routine.

I would not follow the Spuhr advice with other style mounts. In my opinion, there should be no oil. Just found it to be a strange recommendation to add oil to the screws

 

[Baron23]

ARC says to put a drop of oil on their ring screws before torquing.

I’m not as experienced as most of you so I did what Ted recommended and the M-10 rings have been super solid.

My small and insignificant contribution to this thread. Haha

 

[hafejd30]

Blue
Loctite
Everywhere
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CoryT]

The oil is so you get a consistent and proper torque reading. Dry screws grab, leading to you thinking you hit the torque value when you have not. Applying threadlocker is the same as adding oil, except the threadlocker hardens in any gaps providing adhesion , helping prevent the screw from loosening under vibration.

A properly torqued screw stretches under the load, which alone keeps it tight under most circumstances. Next step is threadlocking compound, followed by safety wire.

The inside of the rings do need to be clean and dry, as does the scope body. The addition of rosin is the same as threadlocker, the belt and suspenders approach.

Bottom line, if something is coming loose it was either not properly installed in the first place or it's out of tolerance and will never be tight.

 

[cjs88]

My M10 rings for my other scope have no issues. Weird that this one has issues. Bought a manual torque wrench that will be here today since my electronic one freaks out depending on how its held and doesn't seem to give me the right torque.

 

[Emerson0311]

Lapped?

 

[cjs88]

Lapped?

No? Mount came in the box and went on the rifle and torqued to spec.

 

[Baron23]

Found the ARC reference in the M10 install instructions

"To ensure proper function, apply a small amount of oil or anti-seize to the threads​

and to the underside of the heads of all screws included with the rings"​

​

Maybe just me and I'm no machinist at all....but I won't use a digital, dial a value, torque wrench. Had too much trouble with a Wheeler Fat Wrench and bought a set of Fix-it-stick torque limiters.

I'm sure there is more professional quality tools available, but I'm quite happy with these torque limiters

 

[Clob McStrunk]

MRAD or MIL?

 

[Rob01]

Maybe the ARC rings recommend that for some reason but with my Seekins or even Warne or Badger rings I always degrease and torque and don't use loctite. Never had to use rosin either. Only place I use loctite is on the base screws as they are tougher to get to to check if needed. I have had scopes in rings for years and moved them from one rifle to another to another to another and never had them loosen up so will just keep doing what works for me as you all should probably do.

 

[boomslang]

No? Mount came in the box and went on the rifle and torqued to spec.

What was the torque spec applied?

 

[912173]

Since the PMII doesn't have much tube space anyway, I slid mine forward in the mount so it doesn't have anywhere to go under recoil. The eye relief is perfect and I can adjust length of pull if I need to get a little closer or farther away.

 

[Precision Underground]

The oil is so you get a consistent and proper torque reading. Dry screws grab, leading to you thinking you hit the torque value when you have not. Applying threadlocker is the same as adding oil, except the threadlocker hardens in any gaps providing adhesion , helping prevent the screw from loosening under vibration.

A properly torqued screw stretches under the load, which alone keeps it tight under most circumstances. Next step is threadlocking compound, followed by safety wire.

The inside of the rings do need to be clean and dry, as does the scope body. The addition of rosin is the same as threadlocker, the belt and suspenders approach.

Bottom line, if something is coming loose it was either not properly installed in the first place or it's out of tolerance and will never be tight.

This. Dry screws will give skewed readings when torqued because of friction. I can’t remember who I read this from but it was an engineer who’s life work Involved fasteners I think. Also I always torque, back off, torque a couple of times as I’m mounting a scope or action. In my mind this gets rid of any “stretch” in the threads. Don’t know if this is what’s happening in reality but I’ve never had any ring/mount/action screws get loose.

 

[cjs88]

So just retorqued them to about 24, max not to exceed 26. But the scope is still able to rotate when sitting in the rings.

 

[Precision Underground]

So just retorqued them to about 24, max not to exceed 26. But the scope is still able to rotate when sitting in the rings.

Something is way off if this is the case.

 

[cjs88]

I know. Just checked my other scope in the m10 rings and it is snug, no movement at all.

 

[Gohring65]

So just retorqued them to about 24, max not to exceed 26. But the scope is still able to rotate when sitting in the rings.

Rings are out of spec.

 

[Rob01]

Sure they aren’t 35mm?

 

[cjs88]

Unless they marked them wrong.

 

[cjs88]

@Tyler Kemp any ideas?

 

[Rob01]

Well then you need to make a return. Get some Seekins rings. They will hold it.

 

[Elnino31]

Seekins or Vortex PMR or my go to rings.

They’re Rock Solid.
Only others I’d try would be the Hawkins Tactical

 

[hafejd30]

Probably sounds stupid but here it goes,

Any chance a previous owner swapped the screws on the rings out. Put in longer ones and now your screws are bottomed out (usually they go through the bottom ring…but) before the rings tighten?

Likely just out of spec

 

[cjs88]

I use a mount on this rifle. Might check out the new arc mbrace. Depending on the outcome.

 

[Rob01]

Why a mount?

 

[Precision Underground]

Probably sounds stupid but here it goes,

Any chance a previous owner swapped the screws on the rings out. Put in longer ones and now your screws are bottomed out (usually they go through the bottom ring…but) before the rings tighten?

Likely just out of spec

Or the base is somehow a 35mm. OP look and see if the halves line up perfectly when you take the scope out and look through the hole.

 

[cjs88]

Everything is 34mm mount and rings on it. And I’m original owner. Bought from mkm during the Halloween sale.

 

[hafejd30]

Also take a look at where the top/bottom rings meet together. Is there a gap between them or are they bottomed out on both sides when torqued?

 

[cjs88]

Torqued rings

 

[Old Man with Gun]

Torqued rings

That mount is way bigger than 34mm

 

[Yoteski]

Torqued rings

 

[Old Man with Gun]

That mount is way bigger than 34mm

Or the scope tube is smaller than 34mm. What is the scope model?