Any thoughts on whether this is a problem? Is it a problem which is more than a cosmetic one? I've had this rifle (A HOWA HS Precision in 308) for a couple of years and just noticed that my scope appears to be aimed fairly significantly off to the left compared to my barrel. Taking off the scope it looks like the holes for the scope base screws are a bit to the left of the center of the receiver. Should I just contact HOWA and ask for a replacement?
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Rifle Scopes Scope Not Aligned with Barrel
- Thread starter mikehill85
- Start date
Nope, your bipod is crooked 
Kidding, it's not uncommon. How's it shoot? Is your POI ok? Is your scope windage max'd to one side?
Burris XTR rings with the inserts can straighten that out.
Kidding, it's not uncommon. How's it shoot? Is your POI ok? Is your scope windage max'd to one side?
Burris XTR rings with the inserts can straighten that out.
We can't tell shit from your photo. You would have to hold the camera plumb and aligned perfectly with the bore centerline, and I know you can't do that free hand.
Did you have any trouble zeroing? Are you running our of elevation or windage adjustment? If no to both, move on.
Did you have any trouble zeroing? Are you running our of elevation or windage adjustment? If no to both, move on.
Yeah. It's not perfect but you can see that the bell of the scope is skewed towards the left when sitting behind the rifle. It is tough to capture in photos it but it's pretty obvious in person.
No, I haven't had trouble zeroing or run out of elevation/windage. That said, I am wondering if you get any drift between POA and POI at different ranges if your barrel and scope aren't aligned. I guess it would depend on whether or not the optical element in your scope which has the reticle on it is offset from the centerline of the barrel or not. If it were you are only going to be "zeroed" in the horizontal plane at your zero. Also, I'm not sure how much error this might cause.
I guess I could just get a laser boresight and see if there is actually horizontal deviation between the center of the barrel and the reticle at different ranges. If not, you're right, it's just cosmetic and doesn't matter.
Sorry Mike, that’s not how it works. When you “zero” your rifle/scope system, it is very rare that either the elevation or wind age results are such the you are dead nuts centered in your dials. That is not what zero means in this application.
However, if you really want to assure yourself, do a box test and a tall target test. These will show you what is happening at different dialing positions.
However, if you really want to assure yourself, do a box test and a tall target test. These will show you what is happening at different dialing positions.
I'd bring it up with the manufacturer. Box test it all the same so you have more information when you do.
The scope appears to be okay. I haven't dropped it and rotating it 180 degrees doesn't shift the skew to the opposite direction. It really just looks like the taps for the scope base are slightly offset to the left.
Yeah. You make a fair point there. It guess it probably doesn't make a lick of difference whether the scope body is perfectly aligned with the barrel then. I'd seen people ask a similar question in other forums. People claimed this would cause the rounds to deviate from point of aim in the horizontal at different ranges but I personally don't see it happening given the point you just made.
How did you mount your scope to your rifle?
If you used a gun vise. Locked your rifle in. Leveled the gun vise up, leveled your rifle up in the vise, used a level to level up your scope to the rifle. Then you should be good. Go shoot it. Then like earlier post try a new scope mount and rings.
If you used a gun vise. Locked your rifle in. Leveled the gun vise up, leveled your rifle up in the vise, used a level to level up your scope to the rifle. Then you should be good. Go shoot it. Then like earlier post try a new scope mount and rings.
Yes, I leveled the scope to the rifle. I have ordered another scope base and I'm going to give that a try.
When you zero the rifle for windage you align the erector assembly (which contains the lens on which the reticle is etched among other lenses) horizontally with the barrel axis.
Whoever told you that you will have horizontal drift as the range opens up doesn't know jack shit about how rifle scopes work.
I believe he is referring to this:
In that case leveling the reticle will give you a horizontal component when you click for elevation. (or vertical for windage)
In that case leveling the reticle will give you a horizontal component when you click for elevation. (or vertical for windage)
No, he isn't. He said the scope is leveled to the rifle.
He's talking about axial misalignment between the scope base threaded holes on top of the receiver and the bore centerline.
308pirate is correct. I was talking about axial misalignment of the scope and center line of the bore.Ah ok, my fault then. That misalignment should not be relevant as long as you can compensate it with the scope. It still is annoying however.
I did discover one potential cause. The scope rings I used are for a Picatinny base and my base is a two piece Weaver base. I ordered a single piece Picatinny base which is arriving tomorrow. Hopefully that will correct the alignment. I don't think it will but I wanted to get a 20 MOA base anyway.
I have not researched so I don't know if they exist but maybe try to find some shims to correct your scope rings either right or left as you need to. Not shims under the scope mount. Shims for the side of the scope rings. Or possibly a gunsmith can drill and tap some new holes for your scope base. Just a thought. I just remembered. I had some redfield rings that the back ring had a left to right adjustment to align the scope. I will see if I can find them and take a photo.
Thanks for the input. HiDesertELR also had a similar idea with the Burris XTR rings. I looked at them and they come with shims to correct issues like this. I will see tomorrow if the new base I ordered fixes the alignment. If not I will definitely consider this as an option. The consensus seems to be that most people feel this isn't really a problem to start with other than a cosmetic one that only insane people like myself would even notice much less be bothered by. Lol.
I would work myself insane to fix something like this. Yes I am pretty anal.
Windage In Scope Mounts - Sporting Shooter
Millett windage adjustable scope mounts Q I bought a Leupold Dual Dovetail scope mount to fit on my new .30-06 rifle, but have found that I cannot get enough windage adjustment in the scope. Is there any way to fix this problem without going to the expense of buying another mount?– Jimmy...
www.sportingshooter.com.au
Great find. That really answers my question pretty conclusively.Windage In Scope Mounts - Sporting Shooter
Millett windage adjustable scope mounts Q I bought a Leupold Dual Dovetail scope mount to fit on my new .30-06 rifle, but have found that I cannot get enough windage adjustment in the scope. Is there any way to fix this problem without going to the expense of buying another mount?– Jimmy...
FWIW, it may be the rings causing the misalignment problem. I have a set of USA made Weaver rings that cause the exact same issues you seem to be having.
You can also use a level and straight edge to check screw hole alignment with the two bases mounted, or simply remove the bases and put the screws back in the holes and see if front and back screw heads line up when you look down the top of the reciever.
I think this type of hobby attracts people who would be bothered by such a thing. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one.
Good point. Another easy way to test would be rotating the rings 180 degrees. One would assume that should skew the scope in the other direction if the rings are the cause. I think I'll give that a shot.
Well, we did recently have a numb-nuts (very popular on another long range forum according to him) come here and raise a big ruckus about this very thing. He made such a big deal, even insulting and calling out Frank, that he was invited to see the exit.
Interesting. That might have been where I saw it. I would have to check. I don't understand why someone would get legitimately upset about such a thing but some people just want to "be right" even if they have mountains of evidence indicating the contrary.
The other day I had someone get upset with me for telling them "microns of a mm" isn't a thing. They pointed me to a video where a Bergara Engineer who clearly wasn't a native English speaker used the term once as their irrefutable proof that "microns of a mm" was a legitimate unit of measurement. Anyway, some people don't care about the truth. They just want to argue.
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Lol. Sorry about that. Once you see it you can't unsee it. Better not to look.
Thanks for the idea. Unfortunately it seems that rotating the scope rings 180 degrees didn't help. The rings are actually co-witness rings and if I line up the two holes in the rings it skews to the left of the barrel. That would indicate to me it is either the base, which I will replace tomorrow, or the holes for the base screws. I believe it is most likely the latter but we'll see. At least we're narrowing down the possibilities.
Edit: I tried taking off the base and just putting in the rear-most and front-most base screws. When I align the two screw heads they seem to align with the end of the barrel. I also tried lining up a straight edge with the center of the screws and again it looks like it goes straight down the barrel channel. It might just be the damned base then. Fingers crossed.
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LOL I've heard the same stupid shit. In reality a micron is shorthand for a micrometer which is 1/1,000,000 of a meter or 1/1000 of a millimeter.
Not to be confused with the measuring instrument called also a micrometer.
Exactly. I told them saying "microns of a mm" is analogous to saying "feet of a Parsec". They weren't having it though. Either they were one of the dumbest people I ever interacted with or they were just pretending not to understand why that was wrong.
Yeah. It's certainly possible. It's possible the issue is just the way my brain sees the stupid scope in relation to the barrel. Whether the base fixes it or not at least I can sleep well at night knowing it really doesn't matter anyway thanks to everyone's input.
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That should help keep you out of trouble for a few years..........No just kidding.
I figured it out! It turns out that for whatever reason (It's probably my own fault, if I'm being honest.), the claw mounts on both my scope rings were rotated 180 degrees (see below). I'm surprised it retained zero. Let that be a lesson to the kids out there...don't do stupid things.
I guess because the claw couldn't fully close the scope rings weren't quite centered above the scope base which was causing the offset I saw. Phew. I feel better now.
ROTATED 180 DEGREES
CORRECT ROTATION
SCOPE OVERHEAD SHOT
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Same here. That's a bit embarrassing but in fairness to me those claws that hold the scope rings to the rail are symmetrical so it was very tough to tell there was anything wrong there. There is actually a very slightly off-center hole in the claw that the screw goes through which is why the orientation of the claw matters. In one orientation the claw can fully recess into the groove in the scope ring mount and fully close, in the other it can't. It will still hold your scope in place and retain zero though apparently.
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Good to learn this. I assumed the claws were symmetrical or so obvious that I never considered there was a middle option.
Here is hoping some factory reps are reading this and are looking to make sure their rings either don't cause this, or mark their rings so it is clear there is a correct way to install them.
Here is hoping some factory reps are reading this and are looking to make sure their rings either don't cause this, or mark their rings so it is clear there is a correct way to install them.
Yeah. You'd assume they'd design it that way. One way to fix it so it couldn't be screwed up would be to move the notch where the claw locks into the scope ring down so that the hole for the screw could be through the center of the claw. Then the orientation wouldn't matter. The off-center hole is a curious design choice. Something to keep an eye out for in any case.
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Yeah. That would have been helpful. I assume there's a reasonable explanation for the off-center hole. Likely to allow the manufacturer to standardize on parts or tooling. It is usually the case that design quirks like this are the result of cost saving measures not a design improvement that hadn't been considered.
Another possibility is that moving the notch down on the scope ring puts it too close to the corner of the square co-witness cutout, which is a stress accumulation point. Then they'd have no choice but to have the off-center hole.
Just looked at a few of my rings:
Badger rings: Different sized claws. If not installed correctly they would look noticeably off.
Leupold: QDW are noticeably offset, more so than the Mikehill's rings. But only way to get the claw to spin would be to remove the cross bar/screw. Plus if reversed the 'bottom' of the claw looks like it would not clear the base of the screw, and the 'top' not fit in the cutout for the claw.
No-name cheap .22 rings I bought when I was a broke college kid: Why am I even mentioning I own these? Other than they worked when I needed them to and they are still snug on the Sears Model 1 .22 all these decades later. But without removing them the hole in the claw looks to be centered.
I have a set of Warne Maxima .22 QD rings that should be here tomorrow. The photo online is hard to tell how they are made.
The rest of my scopes and red dots this doesn't look like an issue.
Badger rings: Different sized claws. If not installed correctly they would look noticeably off.
Leupold: QDW are noticeably offset, more so than the Mikehill's rings. But only way to get the claw to spin would be to remove the cross bar/screw. Plus if reversed the 'bottom' of the claw looks like it would not clear the base of the screw, and the 'top' not fit in the cutout for the claw.
No-name cheap .22 rings I bought when I was a broke college kid: Why am I even mentioning I own these? Other than they worked when I needed them to and they are still snug on the Sears Model 1 .22 all these decades later. But without removing them the hole in the claw looks to be centered.
I have a set of Warne Maxima .22 QD rings that should be here tomorrow. The photo online is hard to tell how they are made.
The rest of my scopes and red dots this doesn't look like an issue.
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