Rifle Scopes Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

[Adam E.]

Good evening my name is Adam and I am new to the precision rifle community. I recently purchased a Remington 700 SPS Tactical AAC, and have it mounted in a Choate stock, with harris bipod. This is my first bolt action rifle and I am excited to put some glass on it.

Ideally I want something that I can accurately shoot out to 700 meters, and have the chance to hit a target at 1000 meters (with some practice). I have my eyes set on Leupold scopes for their reliablity, but mostly because I can get them at a good discount. This being said I would like to keep the scope no more than $700.

Which Leupold scope would you reccomend based off of this information?

Adam

 

[hrfunk]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

See what you think of this one.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/338471/...x-reticle-matte

HRF

 

[paulL01]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

VX3 6.5-20x40 EFR

 

[excess]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

I'm not sure Leupolds of late are synonymous with reliability.

I'd look at one of the following:

Vortex 2.5-10x44 PST. ~$600

SWFA Super Sniper 3-9x42 ~$600

 

[rifleman700]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

VX3 4.5-14 or 6.5-20 LR ( side focus ) then add a kenton moa elevation turret. And yes they are reliable.

 

[jack1k]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

Leupold 6 1/2 X 20 VX3. You have a great rifle, but it isn't
a 1000 meter rifle. A .308 with a 20" barrel should do well at
600 yds. but with the short barrel, you won't get the velocity needed to shoot accurately at longer range.

 

[excess]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jack1k</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold 6 1/2 X 20 VX3. You have a great rifle, but it isn't
a 1000 meter rifle. A .308 with a 20" barrel should do well at
600 yds. but with the short barrel, you won't get the velocity needed to shoot accurately at longer range.</div></div>

My 18.5" gas gun has shot amazing at 700 yards, the furthest I've had a chance to shoot it. A 20" 308 is FAR from being limited to 600 yards.

 

[42769vette]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

if the discount is not 20% there are still get more scope for less money with a different brand

 

[MFH]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

The 6.5-20 LR is good. You may need an elevated base, though.

 

[Joebill]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

I would stick with a vx3 or better.

 

[oldrifleman]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

I have a VX3 6.5-20x40 and it is a great scope the X50 is even better as it has the side focus.

 

[jboy723]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jack1k</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold 6 1/2 X 20 VX3. You have a great rifle, but it isn't
a 1000 meter rifle. A .308 with a 20" barrel should do well at
600 yds. but with the short barrel, you won't get the velocity needed to shoot accurately at longer range.</div></div>

My 18.5" gas gun has shot amazing at 700 yards, the furthest I've had a chance to shoot it. A 20" 308 is FAR from being limited to 600 yards. </div></div>

I have the same rifle as the OP, a Rem700 AAC and I was able to hit a torso size steel plate at 850 yds using factory 175gr Federal Gold Medal Match ammo..

Was my first time shooting past 400 yrds and only made 3 out of 8 hits but, was pretty excited about it. I had an experienced shooter coaching me but, I guess the point is, it can be done.

 

[Yakface]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

If you don't mind buying a used scope check the classifieds on here often enough and you will probably find a good deal on something.

 

[frankythefly]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not sure Leupolds of late are synonymous with reliability.

I'd look at one of the following:

Vortex 2.5-10x44 PST. ~$600

SWFA Super Sniper 3-9x42 ~$600


</div></div>

Leupold products are extremely reliable but will still have a few that gets past just like every other manufacture. Leupold sells more scopes than all the tactical optic companies combined. Due to this they also get mentioned as being less reliable as more people\agencies have them.

 

[Joebill]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: frankythefly</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CNC</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'm not sure Leupolds of late are synonymous with reliability.

I'd look at one of the following:

Vortex 2.5-10x44 PST. ~$600

SWFA Super Sniper 3-9x42 ~$600


</div></div>

Leupold products are extremely reliable but will still have a few that gets past just like every other manufacture. Leupold sells more scopes than all the tactical optic companies combined. Due to this they also get mentioned as being less reliable as more people\agencies have them. </div></div>

I have Had good luck with all my leupold stuff. My mk4's have been very reliable people on her bash them but they have worked for me.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

I recently picked up a like-new used 3.5-10x Mark 4 with a TMR reticle. I sent it in for M5 conversion and slapped it on a 700 AAC-SD. Its a good size/weight for that rifle. I took it out Sunday and had absolutely no problem making head-shots on the silhouette at 600 yards. I had given up on Leupolds after having bad luck with canted reticles, scopes that wouldn't dial out parallax, and one that wouldn't hold zero. I only purchased this one because it was a good deal and was lighter than many alternatives. I'm pleased with the scope thus far. I'd highly recommend looking for a used Leupold to maximize your value.

 

[GunKnowledge]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

Remember, Leupolds have the no questions asked warranty. Used scopes are taken care of exactly as one-owner ones.

Definitely agree with everyone else here, 6.5-20. But I would try to get a good deal on a MK4 model, instead of the VX3s.

Your reticle options will be much more favorable. VX3s have things like target dots and fine crosshairs, the MK4s have mildots and TMRs.

 

[Graham]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, Leupolds have the no questions asked warranty. Used scopes are taken care of exactly as one-owner ones.</div></div>That's what worries me: Their policy of making me the quality control guy.

 

[PowderMeasure]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

Leupold, yes great scope. do your research on where the glass comes from! I chose a 6-24x50 Bushnell Tactical Elite MIL MIL Illuminated FFP Reticle with 30mm tube. Came w/ a 3" sunshade. After $75.00 rebate I think I have about $850.00 in it. Scope is mounted on my POF 308. Very clear!

Find it here if interested: http://swfa.com/Bushnell-6-24x50-Elite-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P51679.aspx

 

[Graham]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: powdermeasure</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Leupold, yes great scope. do your research on where the glass comes from! </div></div>Where does the glass come from and why does that matter?

And I, too, like the Bushnell tacticals.

 

[PowderMeasure]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

the PST glass is from the Phillipines not Japan like all the rest of Vortex's scopes. I do not remember why and that shyed me away from that particular scope. Keep up the research. You will find what will work for your needs.

 

[PowderMeasure]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

Hey Graham! I have enjoyed your wealth of knowledge on many post I have read! Most guys on here will forget more knowledge than I may ever have. This is what makes this forum so special. I have a Leupold from a ways back and have enjoyed it. Considering I have one, I wanted something different just to try new products etc. That said, I did not research Leu and do not know where their glass comes from. I would have preferred to have done much more research on Scopes, glass etc. but i had a new gun i could not shoot and had to act fast. 2 weeks fast. Why does the glass matter? Obviously we all want the clearest veiw possilble. However, I have found no matter(to a certain extent) how good the glass is, if the manufacturer has not assembled the scope well when you go up to your highest magnification setting, your view can/will be distorted. Hence the problems with the PST and I also like the Vortex line. The Bushnell gave me 24 mag and clear out to that setting. Very well assembled. Bushnell uses Japan glass. Same as Vortex, except for the PST. For my price point, Vortex was the contender. Bench Rest shooter of mine sold his Carl Zeiss for a Bushnell due to clarity. I will add I can not believe I ended up with a Bushnell. Wasn't even in my "sights".

 

[Graham]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

Coatings and grind are more important than the location of origin of the glass.

 

[42769vette]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Remember, Leupolds have the no questions asked warranty. Used scopes are taken care of exactly as one-owner ones.

Definitely agree with everyone else here, 6.5-20. But I would try to get a good deal on a MK4 model, instead of the VX3s.

Your reticle options will be much more favorable. VX3s have things like target dots and fine crosshairs, the MK4s have mildots and TMRs. </div></div>


i did remember that while leupold was sending my vxiii back to me a few years ago with a letter saying "nothing done, product meets our standards" after it was beat in a light gathering test by a simmons whitetail classic.

the whitetail classic was a 6.5-20x50 set on 6x

the leupold was a 4.5-14x50 on 4x.

you are correct they didn't ask any questions what so ever, they just told me to go to hell.

 

[PowderMeasure]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

agreed. origins help as well. you have been on here a good while. Do you know of anyone shooting LD in the Nashville, TN area? Specifically Franklin TN?

 

[GunKnowledge]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i did remember that while leupold was sending my vxiii back to me a few years ago with a letter saying "nothing done, product meets our standards" after it was beat in a light gathering test by a simmons whitetail classic.

the whitetail classic was a 6.5-20x50 set on 6x

the leupold was a 4.5-14x50 on 4x.

you are correct they didn't ask any questions what so ever, they just told me to go to hell. </div></div>

I would have too, sounds like a retarded argument.

What were the details on this redneck left eye/right eye light transmission comparison? Did the scope actually fail in any way?

This is like taking your car back to the dealer because you drove another car and the steering FELT better. The dealership is going to check out the car, make sure everything is fine, and say "Everything is working fine, go away."

Warranties are for people to get things repaired when they fail prematurely. Not for people to complain about lack of features or to somehow get rewarded in the attempt to make an oblivious customer happy.

What did you expect Leupold to do? "Hmm..., this guys wants a brighter view, let's replace all his lens with uncoated ones and slather the inside of the erector tube with reflective paint..."

 

[excess]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

Leupold may have an outstanding warranty but that doesn't help me if I I am in the middle of a class that i paid good money for, including travel costs, plus vacation time taken, and the scope craps out on me. Ask one of the better known schools, which see hundreds of scopes per year from every imaginable brand - ask them which brands are likely to go through the classes trouble free and which are not.

 

[42769vette]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i did remember that while leupold was sending my vxiii back to me a few years ago with a letter saying "nothing done, product meets our standards" after it was beat in a light gathering test by a simmons whitetail classic.

the whitetail classic was a 6.5-20x50 set on 6x

the leupold was a 4.5-14x50 on 4x.

you are correct they didn't ask any questions what so ever, they just told me to go to hell. </div></div>

I would have too, sounds like a retarded argument.

What were the details on this redneck left eye/right eye light transmission comparison? Did the scope actually fail in any way?

This is like taking your car back to the dealer because you drove another car and the steering FELT better. The dealership is going to check out the car, make sure everything is fine, and say "Everything is working fine, go away."

Warranties are for people to get things repaired when they fail prematurely. Not for people to complain about lack of features or to somehow get rewarded in the attempt to make an oblivious customer happy.

What did you expect Leupold to do? "Hmm..., this guys wants a brighter view, let's replace all his lens with uncoated ones and slather the inside of the erector tube with reflective paint..." </div></div>

I expected them to replace or fix the scope. Am i wrong in assuming that the Leupold on 4.5x should draw more light than a Simmons on 6x? I guess i just expected Leupold's standards to be higher than Simmons's standards. Would you be a happy customer if you payed Leupold prices and didn't even get Simmons quality? I'm sure some shooters wouldn't mind getting less quality than Simmons because to most people all they care about is that their buddies look at their rifle and say "wow he uses good scopes that's a Leupold" and if the rifles job is to sit in the safe and look pretty it doesn't matter. I guess I was foolish and thought I could actually use the scope.

Crazy redneck me.

When I had plenty of shooting light threw the Simmons 10 minutes after I ran out with the leupold I feel like the scope failed. You do know Simmons is pretty much bottom of the barrel right?

 

[ntnsurf]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

If you want a quality reliable optic for a tactical rifle buy something other than a leupold.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i did remember that while leupold was sending my vxiii back to me a few years ago with a letter saying "nothing done, product meets our standards" after it was beat in a light gathering test by a simmons whitetail classic.

the whitetail classic was a 6.5-20x50 set on 6x

the leupold was a 4.5-14x50 on 4x.

you are correct they didn't ask any questions what so ever, they just told me to go to hell. </div></div>

I would have too, sounds like a retarded argument.

What were the details on this redneck left eye/right eye light transmission comparison? Did the scope actually fail in any way?

This is like taking your car back to the dealer because you drove another car and the steering FELT better. The dealership is going to check out the car, make sure everything is fine, and say "Everything is working fine, go away."

Warranties are for people to get things repaired when they fail prematurely. Not for people to complain about lack of features or to somehow get rewarded in the attempt to make an oblivious customer happy.

What did you expect Leupold to do? "Hmm..., this guys wants a brighter view, let's replace all his lens with uncoated ones and slather the inside of the erector tube with reflective paint..." </div></div>

I expected them to replace or fix the scope. Am i wrong in assuming that the Leupold on 4.5x should draw more light than a Simmons on 6x? I guess i just expected Leupold's standards to be higher than Simmons's standards. Would you be a happy customer if you payed Leupold prices and didn't even get Simmons quality? I'm sure some shooters wouldn't mind getting less quality than Simmons because to most people all they care about is that their buddies look at their rifle and say "wow he uses good scopes that's a Leupold" and if the rifles job is to sit in the safe and look pretty it doesn't matter. I guess I was foolish and thought I could actually use the scope.

Crazy redneck me.

When I had plenty of shooting light threw the Simmons 10 minutes after I ran out with the leupold I feel like the scope failed. You do know Simmons is pretty much bottom of the barrel right? </div></div>


So you're upset your Simmons "looked" better at 6x than the Leupold at 4x? Poor guy. What was your means of testing? How did you test "brightness"? How did you test resolution? Did you try a box test with both scopes?

Sounds more like to me its a case of buyer's remorse. You're upset your Leupold wasn't miles ahead of the Simmons in "brightness" despite having cost more. Sounds like you're looking for a reason to use the more economical scope, rather than giving an honest comparison of features and quality across the board.

My best advice to you would be that if you're looking for "brightness", buy only Zeiss Conquest 3-9x and shoot them on 3x. You can buy one for $399.

 

[SPfeiffer]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

I sighted in 2 identical 300 Ultra Mags for some friends that are going elk hunting in 3 weeks. both had Leupolds on them. one was a mil dot tactical type scope and the other was a more basic scope.. Really have no clue what the models were, other than the fact that I did not like either one! both looked cheap felt cheap and were brand new! I would not buy one! For the same money there has to be better optics than those 2.. my old 10X Super Sniper is a better scope!

 

[tsavo303]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

I had a nf 2.5-10 that "met standards" even though the reticle was almost invisible at 2.5X

I generally stick with leuplolds. my mk4 that were purchased last year are brighter and sharper than my older one

I would only go with one of the 30mm ones
and you might as well go with the mk4 6.5-20
i have the m5 with the mil knobs on mine and like it well


Look for a used one on the optics board, found some good ones there

 

[tsavo303]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

I also dont get this SS loyalty. I have tried two of the scopes (fixed 10 and 3-9) and neither was great
The 3-9 was ok, but the 10x adjustments were so crappy and impercise

 

[hrfunk]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

I've never used an SS scope; nor, for that matter, have I used a Nightforce, S&B, Premier, etc. I have, however, used quite a few Leupold scopes, to include several tactical models. I have found them all to be clear, bright, and reliable. Moreover, I have been using the Mark 4 LR/T on my work rifle for over 10 years. It is dead-on accurate, and its adjustments are precise. The performance of that scope is undoubtably the biggest reason I've never used some of the other scopes on the market. It is also why I'm in the process of buying another LR/T. Simply put, Leupold products have always met my expectations (which are quite demanding, if I do say so myself). To each his own, and if you have good luck with other products by all means stick with them. Nevertheless, the OP may rest assured, Leupold makes good scopes.

HRF

 

[okiefired]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

I've owned a 6.5-20 Mk4 for about 10years now and I've tried to twist the turrets off the thing, it has never even hiccuped. Here's a story I've told before...Once while walking a cow trail along a creek that crosses our ranch, I stumbled and droped my LTR w/ MK4 mounted. I tried to catch it but actually all I did was turn it upside down and slam it into the ground. It left a perfect imprint of the elev. turret right in the middle of the hard pacted trail. I was just sick because I knew it was damaged and I had only owned it for a couple years, it hit HARD. I immedieately went to my range (next pasture) to asses the damage....didn't even loose zero and passed the box test (as always) with flying colors. Dont tell me they're not reliable. I do have one complaint, it has a few specks on the glass internally. You have to really look to see them but they are there. Have a good shooting pard the lives about a half mi. down the road, wont buy anything but SS's. Few years ago he bought a rifle/scope package from a friend and the scope was a Mk4. His quote to me a little while back...."man, I know why you like that Leupy so much now...". They're certainly not the best scope on the planet but for what you can get one for, especially one of thier used upper shelf models, you're smart to at least consider them.

okie

 

[42769vette]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KSwift</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body">i did remember that while leupold was sending my vxiii back to me a few years ago with a letter saying "nothing done, product meets our standards" after it was beat in a light gathering test by a simmons whitetail classic.

the whitetail classic was a 6.5-20x50 set on 6x

the leupold was a 4.5-14x50 on 4x.

you are correct they didn't ask any questions what so ever, they just told me to go to hell. </div></div>

I would have too, sounds like a retarded argument.

What were the details on this redneck left eye/right eye light transmission comparison? Did the scope actually fail in any way?

This is like taking your car back to the dealer because you drove another car and the steering FELT better. The dealership is going to check out the car, make sure everything is fine, and say "Everything is working fine, go away."

Warranties are for people to get things repaired when they fail prematurely. Not for people to complain about lack of features or to somehow get rewarded in the attempt to make an oblivious customer happy.

What did you expect Leupold to do? "Hmm..., this guys wants a brighter view, let's replace all his lens with uncoated ones and slather the inside of the erector tube with reflective paint..." </div></div>

I expected them to replace or fix the scope. Am i wrong in assuming that the Leupold on 4.5x should draw more light than a Simmons on 6x? I guess i just expected Leupold's standards to be higher than Simmons's standards. Would you be a happy customer if you payed Leupold prices and didn't even get Simmons quality? I'm sure some shooters wouldn't mind getting less quality than Simmons because to most people all they care about is that their buddies look at their rifle and say "wow he uses good scopes that's a Leupold" and if the rifles job is to sit in the safe and look pretty it doesn't matter. I guess I was foolish and thought I could actually use the scope.

Crazy redneck me.

When I had plenty of shooting light threw the Simmons 10 minutes after I ran out with the leupold I feel like the scope failed. You do know Simmons is pretty much bottom of the barrel right? </div></div>


So you're upset your Simmons "looked" better at 6x than the Leupold at 4x? Poor guy. What was your means of testing? How did you test "brightness"? How did you test resolution? Did you try a box test with both scopes?

Sounds more like to me its a case of buyer's remorse. You're upset your Leupold wasn't miles ahead of the Simmons in "brightness" despite having cost more. Sounds like you're looking for a reason to use the more economical scope, rather than giving an honest comparison of features and quality across the board.

My best advice to you would be that if you're looking for "brightness", buy only Zeiss Conquest 3-9x and shoot them on 3x. You can buy one for $399. </div></div>


im not looking for a excuse to use the cheaper scope, this was about 10 years ago and since ive learned what a quality optic is. as of today i have tons of vortex, a couple nightforce, and a uso.

why the hell would i test the tracking when the issue was light gathering? as mentioned earlier to test this i tried to shoot a deer with the leupold, i could not see it what so ever. i grabbed my fathers muzzleloader that had a simmons and made the shot no issues. over the next few days i did alot of looking threw both scopes and every night the leupold lost light first. keep in mind that scopes typically draw more light on lower zoom settings, so the odds were on leupolds side (4x vs 6.5x) and they still lost. then to i was pissed that when returning the scope they said that the scope meet their standards. i dont want to do business with a big name company like leupold when there standards are lower than simmons.

some folks are still stuck in the 80s when leupold was the best. those die hard folks refuse to admit that when leupold took there long break from developing new products that they were passed by many many companies in quality.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

Obviously the point of the post was lost on you. You failed to recognize perceived "brightness" is not the main function of a rifle scope.

Please define "lost light first". How did you determine, in a quantitative manner, the Simmons was the winner?

 

[slowr1der]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

I'm also not a big Leupold fan. While I've never owned a Mark 4, I've owned several of their other scopes on hunting rifles. I've never been impressed. I've had issues with several of them from failing to hold zero, to having something floating around internally. They just don't seem very reliable to me. They also are very lacking the glass department compared to many other similarly priced scopes. My Burris FFII's blew my Leupold VX-II away glass wise, durability wise, and it was $100 cheaper. I know they upgraded the glass in their newer scopes that just came out, but I'm not going to rush out to try one after my previous experiences with them.

I will also say that the Mark 4 may be the best thing since sliced bread for all I know. I don't have a clue, and I'm not going to try one when I can get something that is proven to be much better for not much more money.

 

[okiefired]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

Very few things are "proven" in the scope world. I've had several Burris's including the Black Diamond I still have on my AR10T. Its a nice scope but not half the scope my Mk4 is. Try putting your Burris threw what I did my Mk4 and let us know how it turns out. I honestly dont know what the results will be....just curious. I'm betting you wont be impressed.

okie

 

[hrfunk]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

I suppose I fall into the category of "stuck in the 80's" in many respects. Perhaps my faith in Leupold optics is a symptom of just such a malady. If so, so be it. That doesn't change the fact that I hit what I'm aiming at with my Mark 4, and I've done it over and over.

HRF

 

[42769vette]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please define "lost light first". How did you determine, in a quantitative manner, the Simmons was the winner? </div></div>

when i had both rifles side by side at the exact same time i would look at a deer or ?. at a certain point i would loose the ability to make the shot with the leupold due to the image being dark. then i would move over to the simmons and for another 10 minutes (roughly) i would still be able to make the shot. obviously the simmons lost the ability to make the shot, but it lost it slower than the leupold. both scopes being a 50mm objective, and the simmons being set on a higher zoom this happened again and again.

which brings us back to the customer service portain. their customer service is ok with their scope being out preformed by a simmons IN THAT AREA. tracking and durability may have been better, after loosing light so quickly i didn't see any point in continuing to work with the scope.

also ive owned their range finder. my 1200 yard range finder is doing very well to range 600 yards in slightly overcast sky trying to range the side of a truck. i didn't bother sending that one bask as i know what the response would be. but keep in mind my 1000 yard vortex range finder would range 988 at the same time in the same conditions.

dont get me wrong i dont think all leupolds are bad scopes. i think there customer service leaves alot to be desired and a if the 1200 dollar leupold mark 4 were in the 700 dollar price range it would be on par with other companies offerings.

 

[okiefired]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 42769vette</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Please define "lost light first". How did you determine, in a quantitative manner, the Simmons was the winner? </div></div>

when i had both rifles side by side at the exact same time i would look at a deer or ?. at a certain point i would loose the ability to make the shot with the leupold due to the image being dark. then i would move over to the simmons and for another 10 minutes (roughly) i would still be able to make the shot. obviously the simmons lost the ability to make the shot, but it lost it slower than the leupold. both scopes being a 50mm objective, and the simmons being set on a higher zoom this happened again and again.

which brings us back to the customer service portain. their customer service is ok with their scope being out preformed by a simmons IN THAT AREA. tracking and durability may have been better, after loosing light so quickly i didn't see any point in continuing to work with the scope.

also ive owned their range finder. my 1200 yard range finder is doing very well to range 600 yards in slightly overcast sky trying to range the side of a truck. i didn't bother sending that one bask as i know what the response would be. but keep in mind my 1000 yard vortex range finder would range 988 at the same time in the same conditions.

dont get me wrong i dont think all leupolds are bad scopes. i think there customer service leaves alot to be desired and a if the 1200 dollar leupold mark 4 were in the 700 dollar price range it would be on par with other companies offerings. </div></div>

Just take a pic with your i-pnone threw each scope and show us the difference in light gathering. It's one thing that shows up real easily in the camera world.

okie

 

[42769vette]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

this was 10 years ago and i no longer have either scope. this was just a warning t everyone that says leupolds customer service is great

 

[tsavo303]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

well, i have only had one issue (with dozens of them)ever with leupold and they could not have any done more to make it right

Same with my dad who sent them the first vari scope they ever made when a seal went bad just 10 years ago. they fixed it promptly despite it being so old and my dad telling them he bought it second hand.

I tried IOR 2-12, NF 2.5-10, SS 3-9 before I used the MK4 I was trying to better on my MWS. In fairness the NF I think was the lemon than NF said was in spec, but I have had only good experience with Leupold

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

So you had the chance to shoot deer right at the same time with both scopes available multiple nights? Again, how did you TEST this? You're describing an unscientific observation, which is completely subjective.

What range was this deer multiple nights? We're both scoped clean? Did they both have the same parallax setting? We're they the same reticle? Why did you not try them at equal power? We're you the only person with this "test" to make the observation?

 

[42769vette]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

last time i will explain this

my father and i were hunting, and a deer popped up at 130ish in a green hay field. i couple not gather enough light threw my rifle with a leupold on it. i traded him guns and had plenty of light to make the shot.

the next night i would set various objects out and re do the test. i did this over a few nights with both scopes side by side and the simmons always won.

i did not go out and buy thousands of dollars in lab equipment to do a sientific. i didnt know i would have to deal with lawyers on snipershide one day looking for a loop hole to praise leupold. bottom line it did not gather light for shit. not in some lab, but in the real world. some folks pay care about what happens in some lab, i care about what happens in the real world.

 

[tylerw02]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

Nobody is trying to praise Leupold, I'm simply demonstrating your "test" wasn't a test at all. It was SUBJECTIVE. Again, it doesn't mean Leupolds "standards" are lower than Simmons. Rather you may have had the best Simmons ever produced.

Also note, day scopes don't gather light. They transmit it.

For the record, you don't need much lab equipment to test a scope. Have a buddy type out a few sheets of paper and try reading them. There are also resolution tests and tracking test sheets you can download.

 

[42769vette]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: tylerw02</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Nobody is trying to praise Leupold, I'm simply demonstrating your "test" wasn't a test at all. It was SUBJECTIVE. Again, it doesn't mean Leupolds "standards" are lower than Simmons. Rather you may have had the best Simmons ever produced.

Also note, day scopes don't gather light. They transmit it.

For the record, you don't need much lab equipment to test a scope. Have a buddy type out a few sheets of paper and try reading them. There are also resolution tests and tracking test sheets you can download. </div></div>

gain tracking was not the issue. i never tested the tracking (i hold over 200 yard hunting gun) ill just go out on a limb and say the scope tracked great to kill that part of your theory. keep in mind 10 years ago when this happened the internet wasnt as big as it is today. when this happened id never been on the internet. i dont have the scope anymore so no testing will be done. even if i had the single best simmons scope ever produced i still wouldnt think (based on price/reputation) it would beat a leupold that by leupolds words meets their standards

any excuses on why my 1200 yards range finder would only range 650, but at the same time, same time my vortex 1000 yard range finder would range 990ish? im sure that test was biased towards the vortex, im just not sure how

 

[Armed Citizen]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

What were the objective sizes and powers of the scopes? Wondering if we are comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges?

 

[42769vette]

Re: Scope Reccomendation: Leupold's

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Armed Citizen</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What were the objective sizes and powers of the scopes? Wondering if we are comparing apples to apples or apples to oranges? </div></div>

simmons was a 6.5-20x50
leupold was a 4.5-14x50

they are not exact apples to apples, the leupold had the advantage being set on 4.5 vs the simmons on 6.5