Rifle Scopes Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

[9mmkungfu]

Hey all,

I'm looking for scope recommendations. The gun is a GAP AR-10 w/ 20" Rock 5R barrel. I'm looking to shoot up to 1200 yards. My budget is 2k tops, but I'd like to spend $1500 or so. A little over or under is ok I guess.

I was thinking about the NF 3.5-15x50 mil/MLR. Also, I currently have an SPR-E mount on another rifle. Would the SPR-E place the scope too far forward for this application?

Thanks guys.

 

[Adician]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

I'd go NF 3.5-15 and put up the extra coin for one of the new High Rev turrets, but any flavor of NF will do you just fine. Maybe a USO ST-10, but I definitely wouldn't go above 16-18 for top mag on that rifle.

 

[9mmkungfu]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Adician</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I'd go NF 3.5-15 and put up the extra coin for one of the new High Rev turrets, but any flavor of NF will do you just fine. Maybe a USO ST-10, but I definitely wouldn't go above 16-18 for top mag on that rifle.

</div></div>

Thanks for the recommendation. What is the difference between the F1 and non-F1, besides the price? I saw the non-F1 w/ zero stops, mil/MLR for $1792 on Midway and the F1 for something like $2200.

The USO ST-10, that is a fixed-power 10x correct?

I wasn't sure if the 5-22x would be "too much" but it seems as though most are recommending the 3.5-15x with this application.

 

[Adician]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

The F1 contains a first focal plane reticle, meaning that the reticle subtensions always remain accurate due to the reticle enlarging when you zoom in.

I personally never go over 15X on any AR, since I only go to 1100 with the 308 semis. The USO is great, and fixed power scopes are often overlooked.

For me, importance goes
1.Matching turrets/reticle
2.accuracy in clicks/ the reticle is not canted inside the scope
3.ruggedness
4.clarity
5.zoom, side focus, illuminated reticle.

For me, reliability is much more important than features. I've never once used illuminated reticles, even though I've hunted just before dusk.

It's all up to you, I know I've never regretted extra magnification on the top end of the scope, I just never used it.

Of course, IMO and YMMV.

 

[JUtter]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

I know that some will not like the idea, but I have a Leupold 3.5x10x40 Mark 4 with M3 turrets on a 20'POF. There are times I wished I had a little more magnification but I like that it keeps down the weight(the POF seemed top heavy with both a Nightforce and an IOR SH edition) and it is enough magnification to shoot steel at a 1000. I think it would be personal preference as far as one minute elevation adjustments, but for my intentions with the rifle I think that it is an advantage. Now if I were using the rifle as a pure precision rifle I would think I would stay with the Nightforce, but I use mine more as a walking, hunting, easy to move with rifle with the ability to be pretty accurate at distance.

 

[9mmkungfu]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Adician</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The F1 contains a first focal plane reticle, meaning that the reticle subtensions always remain accurate due to the reticle enlarging when you zoom in.

I personally never go over 15X on any AR, since I only go to 1100 with the 308 semis. The USO is great, and fixed power scopes are often overlooked.

For me, importance goes
1.Matching turrets/reticle
2.accuracy in clicks/ the reticle is not canted inside the scope
3.ruggedness
4.clarity
5.zoom, side focus, illuminated reticle.

For me, reliability is much more important than features. I've never once used illuminated reticles, even though I've hunted just before dusk.

It's all up to you, I know I've never regretted extra magnification on the top end of the scope, I just never used it.

Of course, IMO and YMMV.</div></div>

Thanks for the clarification on the F1 features. I guess I just don't want to get the 3.5-15x, and wish I had gotten the extra magnification ability of the 5-22x.

 

[oubeta]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

How bout the new IOR FFP?

 

[9mmkungfu]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: oubeta</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How bout the new IOR FFP?</div></div>

I don't know anything about it. Do you have a link with more info? Thanks!

 

[bignada]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

You have the wrong rifle to shoot much beyond 800 yds.

Got the MagPul sniper stock? The one that weighs about 3lbs? Then your rifle is already very heavy.

Add that NXS scope plus the 6 screw Badger Ord rings and you're looking at close to an 18lb rig. Maybe you got Gunga Din to hump your stick? Not to mention all them extra mags...


Anyway. Look at Leupold 4.5-14 mk 4 or even the 10x fixed. The MK4 variables are about the lightest quality optics out there. The 28mm 2.5-10x NXS is another very lightweight and durable optic.

Look hard at scope design. The longer the ocular lens and mag ring, the harder to mount the scope. Will you need an extension base? Long and heavy optics might have great performance but are you figuring to be sitting at some benchrest or using the rifle for "practical" purposes...

Gotta have that ocular lens ahead of your charging handle. I've owned the long IOR variables, NXS, and also Burris Tactical and the designs are not good for an AR, aside from the NXS 1-4 and 2.5-10 28mm scopes.


The .308 is just not viable past 1000yds, and good that far only if you have a 155gr bullet at max (bolt gun) velocities launched from a 29" barrel. Certainly a gas gun can't use the slow powders and max velocities...

Look at weight, look at features and Leupold mk 4 will prove itself. The TMR illum reticle is a great option. You can use that scope with BAC principles which means a flash sight picture with Butler Creek cap closed and reticle turned on.

 

[Adician]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You have the wrong rifle to shoot much beyond 800 yds.

Got the MagPul sniper stock? The one that weighs about 3lbs? Then your rifle is already very heavy.

Add that NXS scope plus the 6 screw Badger Ord rings and you're looking at close to an 18lb rig. Maybe you got Gunga Din to hump your stick? Not to mention all them extra mags...


Anyway. Look at Leupold 4.5-14 mk 4 or even the 10x fixed. The MK4 variables are about the lightest quality optics out there. The 28mm 2.5-10x NXS is another very lightweight and durable optic.


Gotta have that ocular lens ahead of your charging handle. I've owned the long IOR variables, NXS, and also Burris Tactical and the designs are not good for an AR, aside from the NXS 1-4 and 2.5-10 28mm scopes.


The .308 is just not viable past 1000yds, and good that far only if you have a 155gr bullet at max (bolt gun) velocities launched from a 29" barrel. Certainly a gas gun can't use the slow powders and max velocities...


</div></div>

Where are you getting your information? 29" bolt barrel to get to 1000 with .308? Hell no. Try 18" in a bolt gun.

http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1256223

Also, where the heck are you getting 18pounds? My REPR with Magpul PRS fully loaded without optics is 10.8 pounds, add 32 ounces for vortex viper and rings, and I'm nowhere near 18 pounds.

Hahahahaha.

 

[bignada]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

Sorry, but any GAP AR-10 rifle, unless it has a pencil-thin turned barrel is going to run almost 18 pounds with a 20rd loaded magazine, Magpul sniper stock, and a 50 or 56mm NXS variable scope.

I own a GAP 10(T) with 22" & 18" uppers. The rifles are, by virtue of what they were made to do, heavy; especially when outfitted as most here suggest.

No such thing as a lightweight AR-10.

No such thing as a 1000yd load for an AR-10; or an M1a for that matter. Might land hits at that distance, but not consistently. A bolt gun can take much greater abuse than a semi-auto. The semi won't tolerate max loads and slow-burning powders. Can probably tailor-make a 1000yd load for a semi, but would need to be singly loaded. The better BC bullets are going to be longer, or heavier and there just is no free lunch with a semi.

That said, would rather have a 15lb AR-10(T) than a 15lb bolt gun in a tight spot. YMMV.

 

[Adician]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: bignada</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Sorry, but any GAP AR-10 rifle, unless it has a pencil-thin turned barrel is going to run almost 18 pounds with a 20rd loaded magazine, Magpul sniper stock, and a 50 or 56mm NXS variable scope.

I own a GAP 10(T) with 22" & 18" uppers. The rifles are, by virtue of what they were made to do, heavy; especially when outfitted as most here suggest.

No such thing as a lightweight AR-10.

No such thing as a 1000yd load for an AR-10; or an M1a for that matter. Might land hits at that distance, but not consistently. A bolt gun can take much greater abuse than a semi-auto. The semi won't tolerate max loads and slow-burning powders. Can probably tailor-make a 1000yd load for a semi, but would need to be singly loaded. The better BC bullets are going to be longer, or heavier and there just is no free lunch with a semi.

That said, would rather have a 15lb AR-10(T) than a 15lb bolt gun in a tight spot. YMMV.

</div></div>

I wasn't referring to Semis. I was referring to what you said originally about the the bolt guns.

About the semi autos, again, no. While it's true that it's hard to make a lighter semi-auto 308, it's not impossible by any means. Weight is not the issue, accuracy is. I don't understand why you think you can't throw a 308 to 1000 with a barrel under 29" and it can only be a bolt gun.

16" (not the 18" I was referring to earlier) SEMI getting reliable hits at 1000.
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1536757&page=1


Unless your chamber is really long, you shouldn't have to single feed. 2.83 is standard, and some mags are longer than that. I just use the PMAGS.

I'm not arguing with you, only telling you what I know to be true.

 

[KNIGHT11B4]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

Keep up with the "For Sale" thread.

I have found quite a few great deals on there, NF, USO, SB, whatever. Its all there and i bet you would find something that will work great for that GAP.

And no Im not selling anything

 

[BCP]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

IOR 3-18 FFP, Nightforce 3-15mlr, USO 10 or 3.2-17 are what come to my mind. Personally I like the big elevation knob and MP8 reticle in the IOR, and at 1500$ new I think it's a pretty good deal. I'm probably in the minority though as IOR has somewhat of a reputation around here. USO 10X with the big knob might be an idea too if you like fixed power scopes, I think they are 12-1300 new.

I would avoid leupold.

 

[bburnham]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

I just put a USO ST-10 on a custom AR-10(DPMS style), 20 inch Kreiger, shooting 155g Sierra "new" Palmas at 2825fps. Does just fine on 2moa steel out to 1000(inside 800 yds, it murders them). I think the scope is nice package of simple, great mechanics, durable, trim but with enough power for the niche this rifle lives in. I can see the argument for something like a 3x15 variable, just depends on your role for the rifle. If shooting some precision paper or smaller targets, then the higher power variable makes sense.

 

[9mmkungfu]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

Thanks for all the input guys. Also, bignada is correct on the GAP AR-10's heaviness. The GAP AR-10s use a heavy profile and are nothing like the lightweight barrels I have on other .308 AR autoloaders. I haven't weighed it, but it's probably close to 16 lbs fully outfitted. Nevertheless, I don't mind it as it makes my 5.56 SBR feel like a paperweight when I switch back

 

[CSTactical]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

I just sold a guy today a USO CST-ST10S for is 20" DPMS LR-308. Another good scope on the AR10 platform setups is the Nightforce 2.5-10x32mm.

Mike @ CST

 

[cj1026]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just sold a guy today a USO CST-ST10S for is 20" DPMS LR-308. Another good scope on the AR10 platform setups is the Nightforce 2.5-10x32mm.

Mike @ CST </div></div>

Thanks Mike! Can't wait to get out there and shoot it.

 

[9mmkungfu]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cj1026</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just sold a guy today a USO CST-ST10S for is 20" DPMS LR-308. Another good scope on the AR10 platform setups is the Nightforce 2.5-10x32mm.

Mike @ CST </div></div>

Thanks Mike! Can't wait to get out there and shoot it. </div></div>

Have you tried it out yet?

 

[cj1026]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: 9mmkungfu</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: cj1026</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: CSTACTICAL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I just sold a guy today a USO CST-ST10S for is 20" DPMS LR-308. Another good scope on the AR10 platform setups is the Nightforce 2.5-10x32mm.

Mike @ CST </div></div>

Thanks Mike! Can't wait to get out there and shoot it. </div></div>

Have you tried it out yet? </div></div>

Sure have. Slapped it on the LR308, bore sighted it and hit the 300 yard range. Had it zeroed in 5 shots. Super clear and crisp. Great eye relief. My shooting buddy and I had no problem shooting or seeing 2" orange dots on the target.
We went out to the 1k range just to look threw the scope, and 10x is adequate.
Erek knob is a little confusing to setup, but definitely worth it.

 

[MKSMN]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

IOR 3-18, 6-24, personally I like the FFP option. Leupy Mark 4 4-14 could work, but they seem to be higher priced than they should be. Nightforce F1. It really depends whether you want FFP, and then what your budget is--with a GAP rifle, it should be at least in the $2K range, right?

 

[bignada]

Re: Scope recommendation help for a 20" GAP AR-10.

If you own one of these rifles, the battle is very real in the weight dept. I looked at the IOR 6-24 thread a moment ago. IOR scopes are heavier than Nightforce NXS, but what's that matter once you're over 18lbs?

The beauty of the Leupold mk 4 variables is their lightweight. The optics may not be comparable to the S&B, Hensoldt, Zeiss, and others; BUT, they weigh about half as much, and are very compact. Does that matter? It really does if you will carry your rifle in the field... If you shoot from a bench, or off bipod maybe it don't matter.

Is a riflescope primarily a sight or is it an optic? I say it's a sight. If I save 2 pounds of weight and $2000 while obtaining a scope that functions with great resolution in deep shadow and delivers precise aimed fire if I do my part; then I am happy. Do I need FFP, no (but you can get the FFP reticle if you want it).

What I "need" is the lightest GAP AR-10 scoped to deliver hits all day long out to 800 yds or sometimes more, which is what I consider the practical and useful range of the .308win when loaded correctly to gas-gun upper velocity limits.