Rifle Scopes Scope Slip & Loctite on Mounts - S&B Scope w/ Spuhr Mount

[Cold_Bore_88]

What are you using to prevent scope slip in your rings? Is there a rosin or glue I should be using? Need advice. I am running an S&B in a Spuhr on a .338LM.

Is anyone using loctite (blue) on their Spuhr ring screws to prevent them from backing out? How about using loctite on the rail screws?

Trying to make this thing bullet proof.

 

[Cold_Bore_88]

Anyone?

 

[Dthomas3523]

I believe Spuhr recommends a small amount of rosin used. They also mention using glue for extreme circumstances. I'd call or email them (or mile high shooting) and ask what kind of glue.

I typically use blue loctite on anything that doesn't list it as something that voids the warranty.

https://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-...essories/vise-accessories/rosin-prod1123.aspx

 

[Nemain]

If you use good rings and proper installation, Ive never seen the need for Rosin or loctite.

 

[Rerun7]

I don’t shoot anything as big as 338 but blue loctite and a torque wrench for me. That goes for most of the accessories on the gun.

 

[whatsupdoc]

If my memory serves me correctly Spuhr does not recomend using any adhesive on there mounts. they just state you can use it.
Always wondered why scope manufactures did not machine a positive stop on the scope.

 

[Dthomas3523]

If my memory serves me correctly Spuhr does not recomend using any adhesive on there mounts. they just state you can use it.
Always wondered why scope manufactures did not machine a positive stop on the scope.

I believe you are correct. They "strongly recommend" rosin and list glue as an alternative what I'm assuming is a bomb proof setup.

 

[Threadcutter308]

What are you using to prevent scope slip in your rings? Is there a rosin or glue I should be using? Need advice. I am running an S&B in a Spuhr on a .338LM.

Is anyone using loctite (blue) on their Spuhr ring screws to prevent them from backing out? How about using loctite on the rail screws?

Trying to make this thing bullet proof.

Are you actually having slippage problems ? If not, I would suggest staying with Spuhr’s standard mounting instructions. As shipped, their mounts have “wax” applied to the threads of the cap screws and all three of my SP 4006’s haven’t had any slippage problems whatsoever. Having said that, they are mounted on .223, 6x47 Lapua and 308 win, none of which are anywhere close to the recoil of .338L.

I have had, and tried many different ring/base combinations in the past and really never had any slippage problems, including Badger .50 cal rings on a .338L build. Really nice rings. My suggestion is that if you have a Spuhr mount, follow the mounting instructions, try it as is and if you have slippage problems, then and only then, try to solve the problem.

I have standardized on Spuhrs because they have thought things through to the N’th degree and their machining/finish/quality is just superb. By the same token, yes, there are many other really good mounts out there. It’s kind of hard to find a shitty scope mount these days.

 

[diverdon]

This works on my SPUHR https://www.amazon.com/bowlingball-...&qid=1523519076&sr=8-3&keywords=bowling+rosin

 

[pell1203]

I've heard of people painting a thin layer of clear nail polish enamel on the inside portion of the rings just prior to mounting the scope to prevent scope slippage. In theory, once dry, the nail polish will bind the rings to the scope tube. It comes apart easily when unmounting and a bit of nail polish remover cleans things right up.

I've never felt the need to try it, but have anecdotally heard it does work!

 

[Crews]

I can certainly tell you that simply torquing everything to Spuhr's specs without anything else didn't work out well for me at all... 3/4 of the ring cap screws backed loose after 100 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor.

 

[Threadcutter308]

I can certainly tell you that simply torquing everything to Spuhr's specs without anything else didn't work out well for me at all... 3/4 of the ring cap screws backed loose after 100 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor.

Hmmmm.......Thanks for that info. I will keep an eye on mine, but, so far, so good.

 

[Aaron47pb]

I always blue loctite ring and rail screws.

 

[6point5CM]

I use a Spurh and S&B PMII on my 300 Win Mag. While not as bad as yours, I send the 215's at 3,000 fps. I have had no issues, and I do not use rosin. Blue Loctite at 15 inch pounds is all I do.

 

[texag0842]

Just checked mine and they were loose. Going to snag some blue loctite today.

AI 6.5cm / S&B 5-25

Torqued with Borka precision torque limiters. I think approx 6 of them all together.

 

[918v]

I push the scope forward in the rings until the turret housing stops against the front ring. Yup, it’s that simple.

 

[2bits]

I push the scope forward in the rings until the turret housing stops against the front ring. Yup, it’s that simple.

That shouldn't be necessary to prevent slippage and gives your objective bell the minimum support. I personally do the opposite - put the front ring as close to the bell as your rail and eye relief permits.

 

[918v]

Spuhr rings are very wide and give the front bell plenty of support

 

[918v]

Aaaand S&B scopes don’t have much room on the front tube anyhow.

 

[bjay]

Scope actually pushed forward from recoil..mine did the same shooting 300nm
I tightened it to 25 inch it was 17"(no locktite) will see if it work.if it still slip.ill replace rings with ARC

 

[Dthomas3523]

Scope actually pushed forward from recoil..mine did the same shooting 300nm
I tightened it to 25 inch it was 17"(no locktite) will see if it work.if it still slip.ill replace rings with ARCView attachment 6894782

Did you try rosin?

 

[bjay]

Did you try rosin?

Noi didnt

 

[koshkin]

If it slips, try some rosin powder. You really do not need much.

As far as blue loctite goes, I would strongly discourage using it on screws that hold the ring halves together. If you use a torque wrench and loctite, you are likely overtightening the screws. Wet torque and dry torque are different.

If the screws are loosening over time, degrease them.

That having been said, I have zero experience with Spuhr mounts. I have used a lot of other mounts and almost work more or less the same way. Mostly I use Aadmount and they do not slip on a 338LM in any way that I can see.

ILya

 

[ZiaHunter]

Used rosin on a Spuhr 4601 mounting a PMII on a 338LM. Tongue all screws to spec & sequence. No issues after hundreds of rounds and occasionally, check screws with torque wrench. Not a fan of using Loctite on rings.

 

[tnbowhunter]

I found this interesting and kinda makes sense as a possibility that I never thought of. My brother called vortex about a scope not tracking properly...their first question was do you use loctite on ring screws? They suggested the loctite would make the ring screws slippery and cause the torque wrench to read lighter and cause excessive torque pinching the scope tube causing it not to track properly. Basically they said if you use loctite use a lower inch pound. He hasn’t had a chance to experiment with it yet but pland to soon. Anyone have a similar experience and/or end result?

 

[Mute]

Are you having issues even after torquing to manufacturer's recommended specs? I've never needed any rosin on my rifles, not even on a .50 with Badger rings.

 

[Quarter Horse]

Some thoughts on torque and ring scope installation. I talked to Kortik about torque values and he said they should be quoted based on dry parts. If parts are wet (oil, Loctite) reduce torque value by a quarter to a third. As to Spuhr specifically, I think they recommend the use of rosin.

Rosin, is available from Midway at twenty bucks for a half pound. Use of rosin for mounting scopes is pretty much standard in Europe but not so much here. You should also use rosin when using a barrel vice or blocks to remove a barrel. Some people recommend putting the rosin into suspension in alcohol and then painting it onto the surfaces you don't want to move. On my RPR I had to use a three foot cheater to get the barrel nut loose. The barrel never moved in the barrel vice. This stuff really works. If you remove the scope from the rings use alcohol to remove the rosin from the rings and scope tube. You will have no residue and no ringmarks. I apply the powdered rosin with a Q-tip. The halfpound will last you and all your friends about five lifetimes.


There is another consideration regarding the mounting of scopes. We use a significant numbers of rings that are aluminum with steel cap screws. I was told years ago to tighten to torque the screws in a crisscross pattern. Then to loosen and retorque each screw in a similar pattern. The reason given was that the first round would initially compress the aluminum threads and the second round would be more stable. I would love to hear from someone like Glen Seekins whether this is a wives tale or a worthwhile additional step.


Check with both the ring manufacturer and scope manufacturer for recommended torque. Use the lower.

 

[EdO]

Sub 9lb. Ruger .416 Rigby using Ruger rings and blue loctite the scope slipped. Lapped the rings and used rosin / loctite. Problem solved.

 

[whatsupdoc]

Crap!! This thread jinxed me!!!! I just mounted a 34mm tube scope on a MPA mount and the thing slipped.

Got some rosin re-mounted it 40 rounds later it seems good. I use a little dot of latex paint between the front of the rear ring and the scope tube so if it moves I will know.

I quickly looked for torque specs for Steiner, S&B and Bushnell and none of the manuals appear to list an number.

 

[whatsupdoc]

How hard would it be for the scope manufactures to make the scope tube clamping area 1mm thicker and cut 1mm deep by 1mm wide spaced v notches in the tube, the scope rings would have matching notches and there would be no axial movement.

 

[regency]

I have 2 Spuhr uni-mounts and 2 sets of Spuhr individual rings in use. Everything was torqued to 20 in/lbs and haven't had an issue ever... Never used loctite or resin.

Guess I'm weird

 

[Afkirby]

I’ve never had any issues with my nightforce slipping under recoil but in all seriousness Spuhr explains his process for torquing down the screws in his mounts in this video, using “wet torque” values.

 

[Safety_3rd]

like Afkirby said the Spuhr mounts come waxed on the mounting screws so you dont need to do anything to them other than torque them. I think what may be the problem is because these mounts last forever they get resold and screwed/unscrewed and cleaned so many times the wax is gone. I have two spuhr mounts and havent had any issues (one is on a 28 nosler, but with a nice muzzle device) so not a ton of recoil but still no issue. I just make sure to check the mounting screws with my torque wrench every time I clean it and havent had any issues.

 

[FCrifles]

Rosin works great. There is purple loctite that i have used on ring cap screws before for customers that had to have something. Degrease your screws and the rings. I always use blue on the base screws.

All my personal scopes get reference marks with a pencil on front and back of scope tube right up against the ring on the top half. This will at a glance show you if your tube is slipping fore and aft. Then with a silver or gold sharpie I dot the ring cap and scope tube. This will show rotation at a glance.

These marks are the first thing I check if the rifle shows a problem.

 

[scudzuki]

I just checked 2 of my rifles, one with a Spuhr 4006 mount and the other with Seekins 6/4 screw low 34mm rings, both gripping Minox ZP5 5-25 scopes.
Hundreds of rounds under the Spuhr mount and roughly 150 under the Seekins rings.
I assemble with clean and dry scope tube and rings/mount clean and dry screws and tapped holes.
No scope slip, screws have not loosened at all.
I've never had a scope move or screws loosen on a quality scope mount (or rings) when assembled clean and dry and properly torqued.
Anecdotal not scientific, but I'll continue to assemble as I've always done.

 

[wareagle700]

I wonder how many people clean their mounts before installing stuff, it's amazing how much gunk is piled in the threads of new mounts. I've not had any scopes slip, screws back out, or anything loosen with SPUHR, Seekins, Nightforce, Badger, or any other quality mount that was degreased and correctly installed. Oh, make sure theres no oil on your scope tube either.

 

[Sharpened Graphite]

I wonder how many people clean their mounts before installing stuff, it's amazing how much gunk is piled in the threads of new mounts. I've not had any scopes slip, screws back out, or anything loosen with SPUHR, Seekins, Nightforce, Badger, or any other quality mount that was degreased and correctly installed. Oh, make sure theres no oil on your scope tube either.

This has already been explained by Spuhr himself to be incorrect. Keep the oil on your Spuhrs so that you wet torque. Not to be confused with wet twerk.

 

[wareagle700]

Do you have a link where SPUHR recommends oil on scope mounts?

 

[Midwestside]

Do you have a link where SPUHR recommends oil on scope mounts?

The 6.5guy clip in post #32 chief.
And that is in reference to the thread screws, not the clamp/contact area between optic and rings/spuhr.

 

[wareagle700]

Thanks tiger.

 

[BigJimFish]

The rosin strikes me as a pretty good idea though I have never tried it or had a scope slipping problem. I may try it in the future though to see if it lessens any marks left by rings on scope finishes.

I think locktight is a terrible thing because I think it makes the load you are applying to the screws inconsistent relative to the torque applied especially after the first application.

I have always run a dry and clean scope and rings with greased cap screws. For most scopes these have been torqued @20 inch lbs though this ammount can vary by scope or even by the configuration of the ring cap screws.

 

[Pwheatstraw]

I can certainly tell you that simply torquing everything to Spuhr's specs without anything else didn't work out well for me at all... 3/4 of the ring cap screws backed loose after 100 rounds of 6.5 Creedmoor.

What mount were you using and what did you do to remedy your problem?

 

[Crews]

I was using a Spur mount. (Refer to title of thread). It would have almost certainly been fixed by blue loktite. However, I chose a different solution. The problem was remedied by selling the Spuhr and buying a RRS Uniblock. Haha!

 

[Daniel-01]

Found another old thread, this one here was a lot more helpful and less fighting

Thanks for posting the video with Håkon - that seems to confirm what i was suspecting while reading all the posts where people say the scope slipped - on small calibers like 6.5s ...

I will be putting a heavy schmidt and bender 5-45 on a 375 cheytac, presumably a tat more beating compared to a 6.5 creedmoor

Never used SPUHR mounts before and ordered the QDP 4002 for this one. Got curious while reading all the posts about people having issues.

My take from all this is so far.... not gonna try to lap the spuhrs, the tolerances should be good enough right outta the box... i put a tiny drop of loctite on my nightforce ring screws and i guess that wouldnt hurt here either. Clean the spuhr screws, add a bit loctite which then serves as a lubricant to be able to go with the original wet torque setting. Haven't decided about the rosin yet but at the end of the day... why not - doesnt hurt so leaning towards yes on rosin.