SCOTUS ruling, what are the consequences?

[acudaowner]

the way I'm looking at it without a crime being committed you can now have everything within your life scrutinized till someone finds a tiny speck of dirt to be used upon you as evidence then they can bludgeon you to death with it . What it is is important just that they have something to bludgeon you with is the important part but you can be dam sure that wont work against them cause without a warrant criminal searches are still illegal against them but anyone they don't like its looking like they can do it or are closer to being able to do it .

 

[diggler1833]

Generally whites can’t hunt on reservations, even on their “own” land. But don’t worry the natives will hunt them for you, because you can’t post your land and those guys hunt year round.

That is a good point. I'm actually surrounded by 300,000 acres of wildlife management areas. Wonder what will happen with those. Right now this place turns into a Dallas suburb during deer season. Interestingly, the 101,000 acres of WMA to my north and south are privately owned by three timber companies (Hancock, Weyerhouser, and GP).

As far as not being able to post my land, I still can now. My F-I-L and his brothers all have lifetime Indian hunting licenses, and I know that they have to adhere to the same regs I do *here...but that may change.

 

[diggler1833]

Within five years that new 'zone' will have the highest per capita in the US of unemployment, welfare and drug/alcohol related crime.

At some point they'll want some kind of federal bailout for that shitshow of their own doing because 'we owe them'.

Already has a lot if that now man. Choctaw County to my south had a median family income in 2016 of $26K/year. Pushmataha County (my county) wasn't much higher.

When I taught school when I first moved back here in 2018 about 10 percent of the freshman class dropped out before the year was over...mommy and daddy live off the government dime, so they will too.

Still isn't as bad as the Crow reservation just west of the Little Bighorn battlefield...I did tours in Ramadi and Fallujah both of those places looked nicer.

 

[Rthur]

Smells a lot like punishment for OK being very conservative.
The real motivation hasn't anything to do with Tribal reparations.

R

 

[Kir]

OK is not OK

 

[lariat]

When I taught school when I first moved back here in 2018 about 10 percent of the freshman class dropped out before the year was over...mommy and daddy live off the government dime, so they will too.

I don't understand this logic. It literally does not compute. Never has. How do you go through life like this? WHY would you do this to yourself and others?

 

[diggler1833]

I'll say this about the Choctaw tribe from an outside perspective (but being married into it). The casinos that are located on basically every major road into the territory have generated a ton of money which goes back into the community. There is federal assistance with health care, but the Indian hospitals are mostly supported by casino revenue.

My M-I-L worked 23 years with the USPHS at the Talihina Indian hospital. She's also a card carrying Choctaw. She noted that the tribe pays for everything there if possible, and uses federal assistance if necessary. Really the only thing that I can think of that the state may fund in this area is the highway patrol and maybe some subsidies to local law enforcement. There is no such thing as fire or EMS out here outside of volunteers.

I know that the tribe paid for my water line to be dug all the way to my house from its previous ending spot...which is about a half mile. Plus they gave us all of the septic tank materials for free as well. They wouldn't put the septic in for me because my house location is on an archeological site (what isn't though out here). I tried my best to convince them that it wasn't...but we literally stepped on an arrowhead right in the middle of my sentence telling them that they were crazy. Biggest "doh" moment of my life.

 

[diggler1833]

I don't understand this logic. It literally does not compute. Never has. How do you go through life like this? WHY would you do this to yourself and others?

My grandparents had an 8th grade education. I didn't think that was a thing still until I moved out here.

 

[jakelly]

Already has a lot if that now man. Choctaw County to my south had a median family income in 2016 of $26K/year. Pushmataha County (my county) wasn't much higher.

When I taught school when I first moved back here in 2018 about 10 percent of the freshman class dropped out before the year was over...mommy and daddy live off the government dime, so they will too.

Still isn't as bad as the Crow reservation just west of the Little Bighorn battlefield...I did tours in Ramadi and Fallujah both of those places looked nicer.

Crow Rez looks touristy compared to Fort Peck and Browning.

 

[jakelly]

I guess the silver lining is the Supreme Court doesn’t have the authority to enforce this decision or make it law. Hopefully the people just refuse to play, or even better let’s discuss impeachment of the court.

 

[Memberberries]

@Memberberries I get the impression you don’t understand what jurisdiction means.

Frequently Asked Questions | Indian Affairs

www.bia.gov

Check out the nature of the relationship between the tribes and the federal government, and then the states. How would a Tulsa cop arrest someone for violating state or federal law on a reservation? He might as well go arrest people in Mexico. The tribes and local LE might try to hodgepodge something workable together, who knows, I hear the word collaboration being used heavily. I think this is a stop gap, because obviously the tribes can’t afford to govern their new citizens yet. They will have to start collecting the taxes to build out their own infrastructure which can be transitioned to later. However, the legal nature and ultimate reality of those lands for those people, is they went to bed in Tulsa, Oklahoma USA and woke up in a different country with no state. If local government remains to any degree, it will be under the tribe’s direction and authority.

How will there not be a mass release of inmates? What’s going to happen once there is a mass granting of appeals?? I’ll answer- there will be a mass releasing of prisoners. That’s exactly what this precedent does.

The truth is there isn’t much question what this means. The questions are how much can and will the tribes take on, but legally it’s all theirs now. Relationships concerning reservations have been well defined. If you keep your property, it’s because the tribe honors the other countries deeds and covenants. If they don’t want you to own it, you don’t. Question about taxes? There isn’t one, the tribe sets and collects it’s taxes. Laws? The tribe has to write them. Law Enforcement? Belongs to the tribes.

I think you are confused with how there are already layers of jurisdiction in place and how this does not create a new country separate from the USA but essentially additional States separate from Oklahoma. Tribes already have congressional representation but it is non voting, this could change and Oklahoma could lose some of it's representation in congress while they are replaced by Tribal members.

Yes that means that the State agencies are hosed but the Tulsa PD is local not state and they have Jurisdiction within the City limits of Tulsa(theoretically), just like the Oklahoma Highway Patrol is State and has Jurisdiction that overlaps through the city of Tulsa(won't anymore) and the the FBI, ICE, and ATF are all federal and have jurisdiction overlapping all of those. The city of Tulsa sits on more than one Indian nation and could be similar to Kansas City or the Indian nations could make life easier and continue with a union and recognize all the state agencies moving forward,

Everything will still fall under federal law and crimes will still be tried in federal court. The whole question about state taxes and such is still being hashed out but I grew up in the Osage nation and now I live in the Cherokee nation but I regularly visit the Creek nation. If this all plays out the way that I have heard it should, the Oklahoma state jurisdiction could be reduced to their land and this will be the same as the difference between Oklahoma and Texas or Kansas just smaller land areas.

 

[Det. John McClane]

That is one way to quickly defund the local police.

 

[Romeo458]

So are all of the People whom are living on the "Native Land" considered "Natives" now?

After all, that IS how it works, isn't it?

Seeing as we were all born here that makes us all native Americans, unless you buy in to identity politics.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

What clearer evidence is required to demonstrate that the system has broken down; SCOTUS has just granted jurisdiction of sovereign National territory (on a jurisdictional technicality) to a faction which selectively refuses to accept the authority of the entire National government.

This is Liberal virtue signaling insanity at its worst. The Court needs to quit parsing technicalities, and institute a more serious consideration of consequences. Right now it looks like its prime directive is to institute a total employment program for lawyers.

God's probably puking, and deciding whether it's time for the next tribulation. Not only is Democracy a failed experiment, but maybe Homo Sapiens is as well.

FYI, there are NO qualifications specified for becoming a US Supreme Court Justice; it's all about appearances and politics.

 

[John_in_WYO]

Convictions by a court that “lacked jurisdiction” will likely be appealed .
The decision opens the door to a huge mess for sure..


WWSHS - What Would Scalia Have Said?

 

[W54/XM-388]

WWSHS - What Would Scalia Have Said?

I can't breathe.... Get the pillow off.... mumble...

 

[Memberberries]

Dale Gribble would be pleased for John Redcorn... Nuff said

 

[jakelly]

Dale Gribble would be pleased for John Redcorn... Nuff said

Yeah, if John Redcorn had just got done raping a four year old girl.

 

[Memberberries]

Yeah, if John Redcorn had just got done raping a four year old girl.

It's not about the rapist or the rape case, it's about the jurisdictional precedent. Everyone agrees that raping a 4 year old is terrible and should probably be met with some elaborate form of dark-ages torture ending in a slow and painful death.

 

[Alphatreedog]

I'll wager that this is more about turning Oklahoma Blue or at least taking the wind out of it's conservative sails than anything else . The left only seeks power and control . They openly seek ways to take over Texas and have Turned numerous sates blue . Balkanization will never work because they will never stop .

 

[Kir]

Since injuns have their own nations, do they still have the right to vote in U.S. general elections? Just curious.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Relax; he's just one of those hundred guilty men it's better to let go free rather than to convict an innocent one...

Moving on...

 

[P-Squared]

What does this mean for Elizabeth Warren?

 

[GBMaryland]

Don't worry about it... I'm sure Chuck Schumer will have OK's back... He and his buddies, like Nancy Pelosi will immediately sponsor a new law to ensure this oversight it fixed...

...Or we can always just go ahead and invade their lands, and given them a new reservation... right?

<Church Lady Face>

 

[GBMaryland]

What does this mean for Elizabeth Warren?

It means we know where we can send her....

 

[RyanScott]

WTF just happened?!

How did this logic get this far? Does anyone NOT think that there will be a dump truck full of lawsuits from every single state happening now? Along with individual property cases.

Talk about destabilizing a nation from within. This court is less than ideal.

From a CNN article;

"Under the law, crimes involving Native Americans on a reservation are under federal, not state, jurisdiction."

In other words, what we have here is a big federal land/power grab. It may not be a land grab like a national park, but the feds just assumed jurisdiction over half of Oklahoma, removing the right of the state.

The federal government signed a treaty with the tribes giving them a certain status. Gorsuch is enforcing that treaty. What’s the problem? Don’t want stupid problems, don’t sign the treaty and then act like you didn’t.

 

[W54/XM-388]

The federal government signed a treaty with the tribes giving them a certain status. Gorsuch is enforcing that treaty. What’s the problem? Don’t want stupid problems, don’t sign the treaty and then act like you didn’t.

So in other words, don't do exactly what the Federal Government did with just about every treaty they ever signed with the natives?.......

 

[RyanScott]

Gorsuch has a long and documented history of holding the government to its promises. Promises the government never meant to keep. Good for him.

The government is going to end up negotiating new deals.

 

[lariat]

My crystal ball says that the huge sucking sound you hear will actually not come from Mexico as Perot predicted - it will be your tax dollars going to fund a tribe that doesn't know how to manage natural resources or keep up the new found infrastructure it didn't build - you know, like Obama said.

Not really a nation so much as a welfare state if proper wisdom is not applied.

 

[RyanScott]

Ownership of land isn’t changing. Jurisdiction over tribesmen is.

 

[lariat]

I don think that is correct. Look at it closer. But I could be wrong. If I am tell me where.

Are you saying that the implications of the SCOTUS ruling is that ONLY jurisdiction over those that are members of the Creek Nation has been extended to the Creeks and the actual land that was once allotted to them is still owned by Oklahoma and its citizens? I think there are a number of people who will disagree with that.

 

[jakelly]

The federal government signed a treaty with the tribes giving them a certain status. Gorsuch is enforcing that treaty. What’s the problem? Don’t want stupid problems, don’t sign the treaty and then act like you didn’t.

Do you truly think this decision is just? Serious question.

 

[TheGerman]

Is their mascot going to be a bottle of firewater?

 

[lariat]

Ownership of land isn’t changing. Jurisdiction over tribesmen is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/supreme-court-says-nearly-half-of-oklahoma-is-an-indian-reservation-whats-next/2020/07/10/8c2aba02-c2e7-11ea-b4f6-cb39cd8940fb_story.html

 

[jakelly]

I don think that is correct. Look at it closer. But I could be wrong. If I am tell me where.

Are you saying that the implications of the SCOTUS ruling is that ONLY jurisdiction over those that are members of the Creek Nation has been extended to the Creeks and the actual land that was once allotted to them is still owned by Oklahoma and its citizens? I think there are a number of people who will disagree with that.

You’re both right. He’s right in the immediate sense. But the grounds for that ruling is that that land is a reservation, which has clear definitions and relationships attached. When trying to flesh out those implications in real life, the questions, confusion, and outrage materialize.

 

[lariat]

You’re both right. He’s right in the immediate sense. But the grounds for that ruling is that that land is a reservation, which has clear definitions and relationships attached. When trying to flesh out those implications in real life, the questions, confusion, and outrage materialize.

Yes, this goes to one of my original points: the SCOTUS members are intelligent enough to know these follow-on implications of their ruling to the Republic but chose to do it anyway. They are aware that they opened the door to throwing Oklahoma into disarray along with other states, not only regarding criminal jurisdiction but of actual land and business ownership, double taxation, etc. Evidently they were comfortable with doing so.

 

[jakelly]

The native supporters are pounding the minimization drums right now, because they need the non-tribal residents (read revenue streams) and the current “jurisdictions” (read service providers) to help them grow their own bureaucracy and government. Of course as it grows off of siphoned funds the tribes will take a larger and larger part of what is absolutely now “legally” theirs. Not only did the Supreme Court hand this to the tribes, but burdened the American taxpayers with building it.

Want brass tacks? Watch how quickly Tesla goes to Austin.

Free pizza and a 75-foot statue of Musk: the battle for the next Tesla plant

By Tina Bellon and Andrea Shalal (Reuters) - Tulsa, Oklahoma, is an oil-industry town with a 75-foot (23 m) statue called "The Golden Driller." Austin...

froggyweb.com

 

[RyanScott]

People moved to a place called “Indian Territory” and are complaining about the Indians having a claim?

 

[jakelly]

@RyanScott So you do think this is just?

 

[Fig]

 

[RyanScott]

@RyanScott So you do think this is just?

It’s consistent with the law. The federal government made promises it didn’t and couldn’t keep. Now they are being held to the older and more formal promise.

 

[Fig]

The politicians are too chickenshit to actually fix it, but all of that is not going to become rez. It's just not, and fee simple, clear title to all the private land did not just go poof. SCOTUS are fucking idiots. There should have been a happy middle ground between this stupid ruling, and saying that it is what it is.

All this did was throw a bunch of dirt in the water so that nothing is clear.